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(CNBC)   AstraZeneca is basically building the Chrysler of Covid vaccines   (cnbc.com) divider line
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3192 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Nov 2020 at 11:50 AM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-23 10:02:19 AM  
...it's filled with soft Corinthian leather and delivered by Ricardo Montalban?
 
2020-11-23 10:12:19 AM  
All the sensors will blow out at 50,000 miles?
 
2020-11-23 11:03:15 AM  
Honestly, 70% would normally be viewed as pretty damn good, as far as vaccines go. Flu vaccines typically come in at 60%. It's just overshadowed by the 90-95 percenters.
 
2020-11-23 11:20:07 AM  
One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.


That's... interesting.
 
2020-11-23 11:51:51 AM  
For a little perspective, the annual flu vaccine has a 40-70% efficacy. So.. being on the best-case-scenario side of the flu vaccine isn't awful.
 
2020-11-23 11:55:08 AM  
Appealing only to a few people?
 
2020-11-23 11:55:28 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: ...it's filled with soft Corinthian leather and delivered by Ricardo Montalban?


Marcus Aurelius: All the sensors will blow out at 50,000 miles?


No, no. It will be "The Best You Can Get".
 
2020-11-23 11:55:32 AM  
It really must suck to poor millions\billions into research, to accomplish a task most were saying was impossible (6 months ago, saying that you would make a 70% effective vaccine before December would have been met with standing ovations), only to get a 'Well, at least you tried' ribbon.
 
2020-11-23 11:56:42 AM  
It's a PT cruiser?
 
2020-11-23 11:56:46 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 11:56:57 AM  
flip-side

Covid requires at least 70% of the population to be immune before spreading is effectively contained. So this vaccine (if the only one administered) would need to be used on EVERYONE to stop the spread.

70% is good for a disease that can kill 0.04% of those infected. Not so good when over one percent of those infected die.

I don't want this vaccine - and I am a huge advocate of vaccination. (two doses of the polio vaccine was 90% effective, three doses was over 99%)
 
2020-11-23 11:57:08 AM  
as somebody who has owned his fair share of Chrysler products over the years... nice job subby
 
2020-11-23 11:57:47 AM  
Lee Iacocca will avoid snorting it, unlike his competitor, Mr. DeLorean?
 
2020-11-23 11:58:36 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.


This sounds like the way to go, plus.... more people can be treated.
 
2020-11-23 11:58:59 AM  
I didn't realize vaccines could leak oil. The more you know I guess.
 
2020-11-23 11:59:29 AM  

taintbaggins: [Fark user image 425x253]


Fark user imageView Full Size


An American Trabant!


/ shiny metal boxes, etc.
 
2020-11-23 12:00:15 PM  
The key property of the Oxford vaccine is that it just needs normal refrigeration rather than super-freezing, so will be much better in Africa and other less developed nations.
 
2020-11-23 12:00:21 PM  
A nice Reliant Vaccine.
 
2020-11-23 12:01:14 PM  
Why skimp if you don't have to.

"Bartender, a double shot of the 95 for the lot of us".
 
2020-11-23 12:01:29 PM  
They make awesome minivans...
 
2020-11-23 12:01:56 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:02:37 PM  
90% effective is great because they can create 3B doses in 2021. If it takes 1.5 doses to reach that 90% then they can vaccinate 2B people at 90% efficacy. When combined with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that we are at enough capacity to vaccinate about half the world's population at 90+% efficacy by the end of 2021 which will be amazing.
 
2020-11-23 12:02:39 PM  
Bench seating in the front to more easily get road head?
 
2020-11-23 12:02:56 PM  

phrawgh: taintbaggins: [Fark user image 425x253]

[Fark user image 800x477]

An American Trabant!


/ shiny metal boxes, etc.


Is it weird that I kind of like the metal box look now? Somehow it became vintage/retro in my lizard brain and I want one.
 
2020-11-23 12:03:49 PM  
70% percent isn't bad, as vaccines go... honestly those 95% numbers probably aren't gonna hold, but you should still get vaccinated (I will too!) even if you see numbers in that 70-80% range.

Additionally, transportability and lack of ultra-cold strorage are going to be issues for the other vaccines, so in some places, the tradeoff may be a slightly lower efficacy rate, but the ability to actually deliver the vaccine... in parts of the world where they don't have electricity, 94 degree below zero freezers aren't going to be a thing... hell, they're not exactly common in the rest of the world either.

The key is remembering vaccines are just one *layer* of your defense strategy... they're super good, but you still need to wear a mask (over your nose and mouth!), stay at home as much as possible, avoid gatherings with people from multiple homes, wash your farking hands! We can get through this, but only if we're patient, persistent, and clean until there's sufficient immunity out there, and good vaccination rates overall.
 
2020-11-23 12:04:02 PM  
Yeah, I'll wait and get one of the other vaccines. I've owned too many Plymouths.
 
2020-11-23 12:04:53 PM  

Billy69: The key property of the Oxford vaccine is that it just needs normal refrigeration rather than super-freezing, so will be much better in Africa and other less developed nations.


Super useful for developed nations too as the existing vaccination infrastructure in hospitals and gp surgeries is suitable for transportation and storage. No requirement to make, distribute and install additional storage. Massive win.
 
2020-11-23 12:05:11 PM  

kevlar51: Honestly, 70% would normally be viewed as pretty damn good, as far as vaccines go. Flu vaccines typically come in at 60%. It's just overshadowed by the 90-95 percenters.


The last gen Shingles vaccine was 55% effective. What was considered acceptable. The Shingrix vaccine is 97% effective. That is considered a god damned miracle. No wonder every carrier under the sun wants to pay for it. It's stupid effective and far cheaper than paying for a shingles outbreak.
 
2020-11-23 12:05:47 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.


So it's 90% effective with the correct dosage.  Averting the two numbers is just stupid.

Misleading headline is misleading.
 
2020-11-23 12:07:53 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: ...it's filled with soft Corinthian leather and delivered by Ricardo Montalban?


Rich Corinthian leather.  Which there was no such thing as.
 
2020-11-23 12:08:07 PM  
So how are we gonna pass this stuff out?

By race or....?
 
2020-11-23 12:09:15 PM  
It's the COVID vaccine for people with no degree and low credit scores?
 
2020-11-23 12:09:29 PM  

kevlar51: Honestly, 70% would normally be viewed as pretty damn good, as far as vaccines go. Flu vaccines typically come in at 60%. It's just overshadowed by the 90-95 percenters.


Headline is misleading.

A one-stage use of it is 70% effective. But when you do the first-second stages it's 90%, so pretty good.
 
2020-11-23 12:10:22 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.


Interesting bordering on WTF?

I think we need to hold off on this particular vaccine until more data comes in and if this hold, a solid explanation of why the 1/2->1 dosing is so much more effective than 1->1 dosing.

Doubly so when none of the other candidates has shown a pattern like this so far.
 
2020-11-23 12:10:44 PM  

SwiftFox: FirstNationalBastard: ...it's filled with soft Corinthian leather and delivered by Ricardo Montalban?

Rich Corinthian leather.  Which there was no such thing as.


Nope.

He never speaks the words "Rich Corinthian leather".

https://www.libertyleathergoods.com/c​o​rinthian-leather/
 
2020-11-23 12:10:54 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:11:18 PM  

tuxq: For a little perspective, the annual flu vaccine has a 40-70% efficacy. So.. being on the best-case-scenario side of the flu vaccine isn't awful.


It can vary even more than that. That's the average. In 2016(IIRC) the effective rate was 22% because they predicted the wrong prevailing strain.
 
2020-11-23 12:13:20 PM  

GoodHomer: kevlar51: Honestly, 70% would normally be viewed as pretty damn good, as far as vaccines go. Flu vaccines typically come in at 60%. It's just overshadowed by the 90-95 percenters.

Headline is misleading.

A one-stage use of it is 70% effective. But when you do the first-second stages it's 90%, so pretty good.


Nope. Both were two dose courses.

"One dosing regimen showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart. The other showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart."

How they're getting an average of 70% out of 90% and 62% is unknown, it may be the overall average and there were more candidates in one dosing regime than the other, but a straight average is 76%.
 
2020-11-23 12:14:11 PM  

kevlar51: Honestly, 70% would normally be viewed as pretty damn good, as far as vaccines go. Flu vaccines typically come in at 60%. It's just overshadowed by the 90-95 percenters.


The 70% number is still very preliminary. It could increase as the data are further reviewed.
 
2020-11-23 12:16:05 PM  

fo_sho!: They make awesome minivans...


No thanks- I'll stick to my Odyssey. Chrysler gets props for getting the concept correct, but other mini-vans are much better. We have a Chrysler minivan at work and those much touted fold and go seats are very uncomfortable, and everything else screams cheap rental car quality.
 
2020-11-23 12:16:18 PM  

SwiftFox: FirstNationalBastard: ...it's filled with soft Corinthian leather and delivered by Ricardo Montalban?

Rich Corinthian leather.  Which there was no such thing as.


Sometimes he said "Soft Corinthian Leather."  Othertimes, "Fine Corinthian Leather"

Famous Chrysler Cordoba Commercial with Ricardo Montalban!!
Youtube tfKHBB4vt4c


/it came from Newark, NJ
 
2020-11-23 12:19:21 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: All the sensors will blow out at 50,000 miles?


It was so thoughtful how they shared that trait with certain Jeep models after the merger.
 
2020-11-23 12:19:45 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.

Interesting bordering on WTF?

I think we need to hold off on this particular vaccine until more data comes in and if this hold, a solid explanation of why the 1/2->1 dosing is so much more effective than 1->1 dosing.

Doubly so when none of the other candidates has shown a pattern like this so far.


The Oxford vaccine is an adenovirus vectored vaccine as opposed to the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. The major issue with vectored vaccines is pre-existing immunity to the vector portion so that the payload bits can't gain access to the immunological machinery. I'd hypothesize that the higher prime dose induces too great of an immunity to the vector, so when it's time to introduce the booster, it's rebuffed by the immune response to the adenovirus portion.

mRNA vaccines don't have this issue.
 
2020-11-23 12:21:51 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.


It's actually not all that surprising, and there are good biological reasons why they even tested that: They use a weak virus to spread the DNA that will produce the coronavirus antigens - but your body also develops immunity to that virus. People who develop too strong of an immunity to that virus "fight off" the second dose of the vaccine before it can have its desired effects.
 
2020-11-23 12:26:04 PM  

ChiliBoots: The Oxford vaccine is an adenovirus vectored vaccine as opposed to the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. The major issue with vectored vaccines is pre-existing immunity to the vector portion so that the payload bits can't gain access to the immunological machinery. I'd hypothesize that the higher prime dose induces too great of an immunity to the vector, so when it's time to introduce the booster, it's rebuffed by the immune response to the adenovirus portion.

mRNA vaccines don't have this issue.


They don't have that problem because of decades of prior research developing ways to avoid that problem, and get the mRNA into cells without over-stimulating (or under-stimulating) the immune system. 'Naked' mRNA does actually trigger a strong immune response.

/ See, I read about 20% of a review article, so I'm an expert on the topic
// https://www.nature.com/articles/nr​d.20​17.243
 
2020-11-23 12:27:02 PM  

fo_sho!: They make awesome minivans...


That start to fall apart around 100,000 miles.

/ We're on our 3rd right now
 
2020-11-23 12:28:51 PM  

Enigmamf: ChiliBoots: The Oxford vaccine is an adenovirus vectored vaccine as opposed to the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. The major issue with vectored vaccines is pre-existing immunity to the vector portion so that the payload bits can't gain access to the immunological machinery. I'd hypothesize that the higher prime dose induces too great of an immunity to the vector, so when it's time to introduce the booster, it's rebuffed by the immune response to the adenovirus portion.

mRNA vaccines don't have this issue.

They don't have that problem because of decades of prior research developing ways to avoid that problem, and get the mRNA into cells without over-stimulating (or under-stimulating) the immune system. 'Naked' mRNA does actually trigger a strong immune response.

/ See, I read about 20% of a review article, so I'm an expert on the topic
// https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd​.2017.243


So, in other words, state of the present art mRNA vaccines don't have that problem.
 
2020-11-23 12:28:51 PM  
Does anyone know ... do they actually expose people to the virus after they get the vaccine?  Or are they just letting nature take it's course?

Because last I heard, only about 15% of the population has been infected, which could be taken to mean doing nothing so far has been 85% effective at not getting Covid.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
2020-11-23 12:29:06 PM  

jayphat: tuxq: For a little perspective, the annual flu vaccine has a 40-70% efficacy. So.. being on the best-case-scenario side of the flu vaccine isn't awful.

It can vary even more than that. That's the average. In 2016(IIRC) the effective rate was 22% because they predicted the wrong prevailing strain.


The flu vaccine has the advantage of greatly reducing severity of the disease even if they select the wrong strains.  In those cases, even "ineffective" inoculation results in saved lives and costs.  I don't know if we have any data yet on whether these Covid vaccines have an effect on severity yet.  Hopefully it does.
 
2020-11-23 12:29:15 PM  

ChiliBoots: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Tr0mBoNe: One showed an effectiveness of 90% when trial participants received a half dose, followed by a full dose at least one month apart.
The other dosing regimen showed 62% efficacy when given as two full doses at least one month apart.

That's... interesting.

Interesting bordering on WTF?

I think we need to hold off on this particular vaccine until more data comes in and if this hold, a solid explanation of why the 1/2->1 dosing is so much more effective than 1->1 dosing.

Doubly so when none of the other candidates has shown a pattern like this so far.

The Oxford vaccine is an adenovirus vectored vaccine as opposed to the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. The major issue with vectored vaccines is pre-existing immunity to the vector portion so that the payload bits can't gain access to the immunological machinery. I'd hypothesize that the higher prime dose induces too great of an immunity to the vector, so when it's time to introduce the booster, it's rebuffed by the immune response to the adenovirus portion.

mRNA vaccines don't have this issue.


The downside to the mRNA vaccines is that these will be the first ones to be used massively on humans and are the first ones to basically operate at the genetic level.

So...you could be saved...or you could be turned into crab people.
 
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