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(The Atlantic)   Our society is full of specialists. Engineers, mechanics, scientists, wedding planners, etc. We listen to them because they know their specialty better than we do. Here's an article about how scared medical specialists are of what's coming next   (theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Scary  
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6385 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 23 Nov 2020 at 11:40 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-23 9:41:59 AM  
*We* listen to them.  There are droves and droves of dipshiats who haven't picked up a science book since high school (and only when forced), who just *know* way better than those people who have worked and studied all their lives to become world experts in their fields.

Hell, we have a bunch of them here on Fark.  Back in Jan-Mar, I thought it interesting to tag that people saying C19 was no big deal and those making comments that played it down.  Surprisingly, it seemed an almost even divide between typical left-leaning and right-leaning posters.  What changed is that *every* left-leaning poster eventually switched to the, "this shiat is serious" side of things and *none* of the right-leaning posters did so.  They went on to talk about how the numbers are exaggerated or testing is inflating how bad it looks or how hydroxy is working and libs want people to die and so on.

I'm utterly amazed at now these idiots continually think the are "above" everyone else in intellect and street-smarts yet are consistently and blatantly wrong.  The other day, the alert system for Harris county pinged off about COVID, telling everyone to, basically, be careful.  The right-wingers immediately started walking around with their arrogant laughs about how stupid that was and how "we all need to panic" because the government is telling us to.  These same people were literally saying the entire thing was "hype" and "hoax" at the beginning of the year.
 
2020-11-23 10:20:33 AM  
America does not have a health care system.  America has a health care industry, that is preventing us from having a health care system.

The health care industry is set up to make money, not care for sick Americans.

TL;DR - Not good!
 
2020-11-23 10:30:53 AM  
I still don't buy the whole '3rd wave' line. Look at this:

Fark user imageView Full Size

At what point did we bottom out?
FTFA:

What makes this "nightmare" worse, he adds, "is that it was preventable." The coronavirus is not unstoppable, as some have suggested and as New Zealand, Iceland, Australia, and Hong Kong have resoundingly disproved-twice. Instead, the Trump administration never mounted a serious effort to stop it. Whether through gross incompetence or deliberate strategy, the president and his advisers left the virus to run amok, allowed Americans to get sick, and punted the consequences to the health-care system. And they did so repeatedly, even after the ordeal of the spring, after the playbook for controlling the virus became clear, and despite months of warnings about a fall surge.

Watch vloggers in other nations. We are by far and away the worst country in the world with our responses and our health care system. Many feel sorry for us. I know someone who keeps saying that we are in a national security emergency because other nations could choose to invade us. I keep replying 'why would they want to? Right now everyone wants to avoid us." US paranoia over foreign invasions is weird. We worry about the potential of an invasion but we can't even address the invasion that is currently ripping us apart right in front of our eyes.
 
2020-11-23 11:02:57 AM  

UberDave: *We* listen to them.  There are droves and droves of dipshiats who haven't picked up a science book since high school (and only when forced), who just *know* way better than those people who have worked and studied all their lives to become world experts in their fields.

Hell, we have a bunch of them here on Fark.  Back in Jan-Mar, I thought it interesting to tag that people saying C19 was no big deal and those making comments that played it down.  Surprisingly, it seemed an almost even divide between typical left-leaning and right-leaning posters.  What changed is that *every* left-leaning poster eventually switched to the, "this shiat is serious" side of things and *none* of the right-leaning posters did so.  They went on to talk about how the numbers are exaggerated or testing is inflating how bad it looks or how hydroxy is working and libs want people to die and so on.

I'm utterly amazed at now these idiots continually think the are "above" everyone else in intellect and street-smarts yet are consistently and blatantly wrong.  The other day, the alert system for Harris county pinged off about COVID, telling everyone to, basically, be careful.  The right-wingers immediately started walking around with their arrogant laughs about how stupid that was and how "we all need to panic" because the government is telling us to.  These same people were literally saying the entire thing was "hype" and "hoax" at the beginning of the year.


That's the thing with cults, they require the ability of introspection to be muted. These farkheads would have to be able to admit that they were wrong, which in their eyes is a sign of weakness and worse than being wrong in the first place. This is why you're seeing these idiots in ICUs being adamant that they don't have Covid while doctors are getting ready to intubate them. They are actually incapable of dealing with reality so they make up one for themselves, even if it kills them.

I'm done with them, they are anchors on society and need to be treated as such.
 
2020-11-23 11:20:32 AM  

Nadie_AZ: I still don't buy the whole '3rd wave' line. Look at this:


yeah, most states are in the first wave, some that were hit early are getting a second now.  no one is anywhere close to a third
 
2020-11-23 11:22:00 AM  
I've left my house twice this year.

That's TWO times in eleven months.

These people are making sure I never leave it again, apparently, as well as endangering my "essential" husband (medical manufacturing) because he works/shops.

Fu*king plague rats. I loathe them.
 
2020-11-23 11:23:29 AM  
when the northeast was getting ravaged in march/april, doctors and nurses and equipment could be sent from places that weren't effected to help.  now that everywhere is bad, there is no cavalry to charge in and save everyone

what you have is all you're going to have
 
2020-11-23 11:45:29 AM  
\snarkasm on

Man, it's a good thing this isn't real or we would be in some serious doo doo.

\snarkasm off
 
2020-11-23 11:46:53 AM  
1) Stay home whenever possible
2) Mask up whenever you have to leave home
3) Prepare to invest in some cheap ass farmland in 2021
 
2020-11-23 11:49:05 AM  
I only trust doctors certified by Rand Paul's association of clown optometrists and mule dentistry.
 
2020-11-23 11:49:47 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 11:51:17 AM  
Perhaps no hospital in the United States was better prepared for a pandemic than the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

Hello?  Red State? No Governor's Lockdown?

No you weren't.
 
2020-11-23 11:51:48 AM  
It's time to start walling off some of these States but it'll never happen. And even if it does happen it's the innocents who will suffer, not the plague rats.
 
2020-11-23 11:52:02 AM  

silvervial: I've left my house twice this year.

That's TWO times in eleven months.

These people are making sure I never leave it again, apparently, as well as endangering my "essential" husband (medical manufacturing) because he works/shops.

Fu*king plague rats. I loathe them.


EXTREME HERMITING
 
2020-11-23 11:52:37 AM  
Good and scary reading material for anyone who needs a reminder of why it is more important than ever to be careful.
 
2020-11-23 11:55:38 AM  
Expertise? I got over a 1000 of hours of experience of reading social media post about the pandemic. I should get a degree from Twitter or something.
 
2020-11-23 11:56:21 AM  

Nadie_AZ: I still don't buy the whole '3rd wave' line. Look at this:

[Fark user image 850x385]
At what point did we bottom out?


Well, when you're also getting tidal flooding and storm surge, waves tend to not go back down to zero between crests.

They just build and build until everything is innundated.
 
2020-11-23 11:56:39 AM  
No, we SHOULD listen to them...particularly when there is a consensus like here.  Doesn't mean we do.
See: climate change, vaccination, and military threads
 
2020-11-23 11:57:48 AM  
If you're so smart, why aren't you precedent of the untied states?
 
2020-11-23 11:58:30 AM  

whidbey: Perhaps no hospital in the United States was better prepared for a pandemic than the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

Hello?  Red State? No Governor's Lockdown?

No you weren't.


That's not what their words mean. They were possibly the best prepared *as a hospital*, IE , the preparations that the hospital could take, of any hospital in the US. They built a specialized wing and set up directly for this. The state failing to do its part has no bearing on any of that.

As an analogy for you - If I'm in a crowd of people that is wearing suits with four of them in raincoats, and I'm wearing a full head-to-toe sealed diving suit (drysuit, not wetsuit), I am the "best prepared" in that crowd for rain. If some asshole puts me under a standing pipe for hours until my air runs out and everyone else gets drizzled on, that doesn't change that *I* was the the "most prepared".

See how that works? The failures (or malicious acts) of outside individuals isn't what is being compared in this sentence, only the preparation of the hospitals themselves.
 
2020-11-23 11:58:49 AM  
Americans listen to specialists?

Weird....I quit my last job (Amazon) because the entire leadership chain did the exact opposite.
 
2020-11-23 12:00:09 PM  
Delegitimizing, mocking, and ignoring experts in favor of loud-mouthed idiots is one of the reasons this country is in such a farking mess.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:00:31 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: It's time to start walling off some of these States but it'll never happen. And even if it does happen it's the innocents who will suffer, not the plague rats.


Wait...I thought they were the "plague rats" because they were spreading the disease?
 
2020-11-23 12:00:37 PM  
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

- Robert A. Heinlein (the Competent Man archetype)

/ disagree, but a fun quote
 
2020-11-23 12:02:23 PM  
This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.
 
2020-11-23 12:02:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:02:52 PM  
I bet Mexico is thinking that wall is a good idea about now.
 
2020-11-23 12:02:55 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:04:49 PM  

merlinsbeard: This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.


With that attitude you'll get death soon enough. 😣
 
2020-11-23 12:06:07 PM  

Guildmaster: whidbey: Perhaps no hospital in the United States was better prepared for a pandemic than the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

Hello?  Red State? No Governor's Lockdown?

No you weren't.

That's not what their words mean. They were possibly the best prepared *as a hospital*, IE , the preparations that the hospital could take, of any hospital in the US. They built a specialized wing and set up directly for this. The state failing to do its part has no bearing on any of that.

As an analogy for you - If I'm in a crowd of people that is wearing suits with four of them in raincoats, and I'm wearing a full head-to-toe sealed diving suit (drysuit, not wetsuit), I am the "best prepared" in that crowd for rain. If some asshole puts me under a standing pipe for hours until my air runs out and everyone else gets drizzled on, that doesn't change that *I* was the the "most prepared".

See how that works? The failures (or malicious acts) of outside individuals isn't what is being compared in this sentence, only the preparation of the hospitals themselves.


Yeah but my point was without the proper leadership, that preparation means shiat, and they DID get put under a standing pipe for hours per your analogy.
 
2020-11-23 12:06:20 PM  

merlinsbeard: This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.


I can no longer tell if posts like this are sarcastic (I hope) or serious.
 
2020-11-23 12:06:55 PM  

UberDave: Hell, we have a bunch of them here on Fark.  Back in Jan-Mar, I thought it interesting to tag that people saying C19 was no big deal and those making comments that played it down.  Surprisingly, it seemed an almost even divide between typical left-leaning and right-leaning posters.  What changed is that *every* left-leaning poster eventually switched to the, "this shiat is serious" side of things and *none* of the right-leaning posters did so.


I admit, I was one of those left-leaning posters.  Early on I was thinking along the lines of "this could be bad, but other potential pandemics have fizzled out too, this is still not even at flu levels, so let's not panic", plus following the early CDC/WHO downplaying of mask use among the public and airborne transmission risk.

But.  Evidence keeps coming in, and you have to adjust your beliefs to the evidence.  That's how science works.
 
2020-11-23 12:08:01 PM  

bikkurikun: merlinsbeard: This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.

I can no longer tell if posts like this are sarcastic (I hope) or serious.


Not a single pop culture reference.   He's no SAM.
 
2020-11-23 12:08:10 PM  
Welcome to our world, said all the lawyers, psychologists, teachers, and others whose jobs people seem to think anyone can do.
 
2020-11-23 12:13:10 PM  

Ambitwistor: UberDave: Hell, we have a bunch of them here on Fark.  Back in Jan-Mar, I thought it interesting to tag that people saying C19 was no big deal and those making comments that played it down.  Surprisingly, it seemed an almost even divide between typical left-leaning and right-leaning posters.  What changed is that *every* left-leaning poster eventually switched to the, "this shiat is serious" side of things and *none* of the right-leaning posters did so.

I admit, I was one of those left-leaning posters.  Early on I was thinking along the lines of "this could be bad, but other potential pandemics have fizzled out too, this is still not even at flu levels, so let's not panic", plus following the early CDC/WHO downplaying of mask use among the public and airborne transmission risk.

But.  Evidence keeps coming in, and you have to adjust your beliefs to the evidence.  That's how science works.


I don't recall the CDC or WHO "playing down" anything... At the beginning, they clearly said "masks are beneficial", but they were hedging against the disappearance of every medical mask on the planet to assholes and hoarders, leaving none for the people who REALLY need them, the front line workers. They initially were not certain of the efficacy of masks because they didn't have enough information.

Now that it has been determined that non-medical mask usage among the public is the best way to protect those around us and the world has ramped up production of PPE, that is what the CDC and WHO are recommending now. Now that they KNOW.

Sorry - Just didn't like the idea of suggesting that the WHO and CDC were deliberately downplaying something helpful. They weren't.
 
2020-11-23 12:13:17 PM  

fiddlehead: Delegitimizing, mocking, and ignoring experts in favor of loud-mouthed idiots is one of the reasons this country is in such a farking mess.

[Fark user image 660x384]


However those loud mouths are often the experts we are supposed to listen to in other areas.

I've worked with medical doctors that swear that magnets on your fuel line get you better gas mileage due to reasons and their own smarts.   We should put them on fleet vehicles.

We have currently have a radiologist making policy on infectious disease.

I've worked with highly educated and proficient chemical engineers who just know that all IT problems can be solved by buying a removable drive from best buy and plopping it on the network.

Basically because people become a expert in their slice of a field, they think they have the smarts to contradict others experts in non-related fields especially if they find some minutia that is not 'logical'.
 
2020-11-23 12:13:38 PM  

Rambino: Welcome to our world, said all the lawyers, psychologists, teachers, and others whose jobs people seem to think anyone can do.


Don't forget the scrum-masters, agile consultants, and HR-managers.
 
2020-11-23 12:15:45 PM  
Hospitals are at capacity NOW. If there's another covid-19 spike, your options in the Emergency Room are going to be:

1) Go home and die   or
2) Go home and die.

And Goober Nation isn't going to be happy with that. So they'll make things worse by shooting some ER doctors because they "let Cletus Jr die."
 
2020-11-23 12:16:09 PM  
Over in a Facebook group back when this first started to get really serious there was some yahoo going on about how Dr. Fauci clearly did not know what he was talking about, about how a virus is too small to be stopped by a mask, etc. I checked this guy's profile and he was an automobile mechanic. I then made some comment about how mechanics were thieves because they did not know what they were doing and that anyone can do their job. The guy got more than a lot pissed off at my comment and went on a tirade about how he spent years learning his trade and that I was a moron for implying that pretty much everyone knew more than he did about being a mechanic. As expected he was unable to connect the dots.
 
2020-11-23 12:17:18 PM  

red230: That's the thing with cults, they require the ability of introspection to be muted. These farkheads would have to be able to admit that they were wrong, which in their eyes is a sign of weakness and worse than being wrong in the first place. This is why you're seeing these idiots in ICUs being adamant that they don't have Covid while doctors are getting ready to intubate them. They are actually incapable of dealing with reality so they make up one for themselves, even if it kills them.

I'm done with them, they are anchors on society and need to be treated as such.


They can't admit they were wrong because they can't admit that they don't have the evidence or the ability to process complicated data.  A reasonably bright person comes upon a situation they have not encountered before, they attempt to obtain some facts, and process those facts by some logical method.   The average Murican 'knows' what they know because reasons...usually some bullshiat old wives tales or insane conspiracy theory about exploding rebar and airborne Chinese mammals.
 
2020-11-23 12:19:24 PM  
Back when they first reopened in April-May, my only thought was "We're risking our lives because all the so-called 'experts' who knew more than every scientist, epidemiologist, doctor, or health expert couldn't trust themselves to touch up their own roots or trim their nails, and needed professionals to step in and help?"
 
2020-11-23 12:19:49 PM  

wingnut396: fiddlehead: Delegitimizing, mocking, and ignoring experts in favor of loud-mouthed idiots is one of the reasons this country is in such a farking mess.

[Fark user image 660x384]

However those loud mouths are often the experts we are supposed to listen to in other areas.

I've worked with medical doctors that swear that magnets on your fuel line get you better gas mileage due to reasons and their own smarts.   We should put them on fleet vehicles.

We have currently have a radiologist making policy on infectious disease.

I've worked with highly educated and proficient chemical engineers who just know that all IT problems can be solved by buying a removable drive from best buy and plopping it on the network.

Basically because people become a expert in their slice of a field, they think they have the smarts to contradict others experts in non-related fields especially if they find some minutia that is not 'logical'.


This is of huge importance - Now that so many people have become too stupid to be able to work out for themselves whether something makes sense or not, they seem to assume that if someone is really good at something, say, a really smart, efficient programmer, they must be really good at everything!

It is immature, child-like thinking that Trump and his followers rely on almost 100%. Doesn't matter what you're smart AT... As long as you're smart.

It doesn't matter HOW intelligent you are at brain surgery. It doesn't matter whether you invented a new fibre optic transmission medium. THAT will not make you a good president. (or programmer for that matter.)
 
2020-11-23 12:20:43 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I still don't buy the whole '3rd wave' line. Look at this:

[Fark user image 850x385]
At what point did we bottom out?


The early half of the cases graph has very poor accuracy because the US completely blew the first several months of testing and, even now, is still struggling to provide adequate testing. It's like seeing only the above-water portion of an iceberg.

Hospitalizations is where you can see the three waves very clearly:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:23:21 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:25:53 PM  
No, subby, people don't listen to professionals.  Never have, never will.

Like dentists.  There is no profession like dentistry, where they do their damnedest to make themselves unnecessary.
 
2020-11-23 12:26:37 PM  

merlinsbeard: This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-11-23 12:27:30 PM  
I think it has a lot to do with the past viral hypes like the swine flu, avian flu, etc.  Not only did the republican leaning people I know disregard them, but so did the liberal, myself included.  The consensus was those were nothing more than fear mongering to line somebody's pockets.  Then came along covid and I'll be the first to admit at first I thought it was just another swine flue, etc.  Clearly that is not the case and anyone at this point who still believes that is likely wrong.  I think this highlights the corruption in our healthcare "industry" which should be our healthcare "system" as Marcus Aurelius pointed out.  It is difficult to take seriously a system that is motivated by profit as opposed to the well-being of people.  Republicans are just a little slower at picking through the garbage of the healthcare industry as they are our political industry.
 
2020-11-23 12:27:30 PM  

RonRon893: Ambitwistor: UberDave: Hell, we have a bunch of them here on Fark.  Back in Jan-Mar, I thought it interesting to tag that people saying C19 was no big deal and those making comments that played it down.  Surprisingly, it seemed an almost even divide between typical left-leaning and right-leaning posters.  What changed is that *every* left-leaning poster eventually switched to the, "this shiat is serious" side of things and *none* of the right-leaning posters did so.

I admit, I was one of those left-leaning posters.  Early on I was thinking along the lines of "this could be bad, but other potential pandemics have fizzled out too, this is still not even at flu levels, so let's not panic", plus following the early CDC/WHO downplaying of mask use among the public and airborne transmission risk.

But.  Evidence keeps coming in, and you have to adjust your beliefs to the evidence.  That's how science works.

I don't recall the CDC or WHO "playing down" anything... At the beginning, they clearly said "masks are beneficial", but they were hedging against the disappearance of every medical mask on the planet to assholes and hoarders, leaving none for the people who REALLY need them, the front line workers. They initially were not certain of the efficacy of masks because they didn't have enough information.


Yes, that's what I mean.  The CDC weren't initially recommending that the public go out and wear masks, partly because of the supply issue, and partly because early indications seemed to be that they didn't prevent infection very well (though there was indication that they hindered transmission to others).  They didn't have enough information at the time.

And the WHO spent a long time claiming that airborne transmission wasn't the major vector.

Now that it has been determined that non-medical mask usage among the public is the best way to protect those around us and the world has ramped up production of PPE, that is what the CDC and WHO are recommending now. Now that they KNOW.

Right, again, that's my point.  We should follow the accumulated evidence over time.

Sorry - Just didn't like the idea of suggesting that the WHO and CDC were deliberately downplaying something helpful. They weren't.

Perhaps "downplaying" isn't the right word ... they weren't making recommendations that they would now make, or weren't pushing them as strongly.
 
2020-11-23 12:34:08 PM  

gbv23: [i.imgur.com image 619x395]


Can you show us on the doll where Dr. Sagan touched you?
 
2020-11-23 12:35:46 PM  

merlinsbeard: This piece is nothing more than panic porn. We have had cold and flu season for hundreds of years now and this one is only different in that the government was able to whip this nation into a panic. The fact that they are violating the constitution in the name of this really pisses me off. Give me liberty or give me death.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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