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(Road & Track)   Sports cars are dying   (roadandtrack.com) divider line
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6475 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Nov 2020 at 2:45 AM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-11-20 11:43:20 PM  
"In the last 40 years, wage growth in the U.S. has screeched to a halt. Past decades have seen huge increases in productivity, yet the majority of the extra wealth generated by that more-efficient labor has been siphoned off at the top, with workers seeing few of the spoils. "

And they laborers are increasingly angry.  But also, increasingly stupid; believing the lies about immigrants, women, and hell even gay marriage told to them by the very scum THAT HAVE MADE THEM INTENTIONALLY POORER.
 
2020-11-21 12:26:05 AM  
I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?
 
2020-11-21 12:33:35 AM  
The middle class is dying.  Along with things they used to buy.
 
2020-11-21 12:41:55 AM  

Alphax: I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?


Drive it fast. Preferably around a track, but, well, a good road is a good road.
 
2020-11-21 1:07:22 AM  
Mine died all the time

/Tried to kill me a couple of times too
 
2020-11-21 1:35:17 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mine died all the time

/Tried to kill me a couple of times too


Sports cars don't try to kill people.

People just try and push them past their level of driving skill.

Which, granted, is the whole point of a sports car.
 
2020-11-21 1:37:10 AM  
In 2008, I rocked a 1994 Honda del Sol.  That's how you do it, kids.

65% of this country lacks a 4 year degree.  We've been shipping their jobs out of the country for decades, even professionals are seeing their work done from overseas.  There's more coming, and more automation, and better AI (I often see someone who makes $12/hour plugging data into a program, where an engineer used to be).

It's the great worldwide leveling.  But don't worry, it can't happen to you.
 
2020-11-21 1:39:15 AM  
Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing
 
2020-11-21 1:44:52 AM  

Alphax: I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?


Time is money. And because I can go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds I can save a lot of money.
 
2020-11-21 1:51:10 AM  

oa330_man: Alphax: I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?

Time is money. And because I can go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds I can save a lot of money.


Only a tiny section of my 15 minute commute involves a 60 mph speed limit.
 
2020-11-21 2:02:08 AM  

Alphax: oa330_man: Alphax: I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?

Time is money. And because I can go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds I can save a lot of money.

Only a tiny section of my 15 minute commute involves a 60 mph speed limit.


I only bought my Subaru WRX for going skiing. Sometimes you need to get to the skilift in 26 minutes.
 
2020-11-21 2:12:20 AM  

Alphax: I drive to and from work.  I just need reliability and fuel economy.  What would I do with a sports car?


Do donuts in the parking lot, duh.
 
2020-11-21 2:30:48 AM  
People without money tend not to buy big expensive toys.
 
2020-11-21 2:33:05 AM  
11 years with a '76 Datsun 280Z from 1990, then a few with a Mazda MX-3 V6, then a Miata for about the last 15. Also a '15 Mazda3 2.5 daily driver and I love it.

Sports car ppl gonna sports car. Sad the economy is working against us.
 
2020-11-21 2:49:03 AM  
isn't it also because peoples' values have changed? They just don't care about having a flashy car as much?
 
2020-11-21 2:52:41 AM  

Gubbo: Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing


Did you guys spoon after?
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2020-11-21 2:53:40 AM  
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Nice, I'm currently restoring a 69 Camaro.
 
2020-11-21 2:55:58 AM  
I don't live close to I-10 but I live close enough that I can hear people opening up the V8s of their Chargers, Challengers, Camaros, 'Vettes, Mustangs, et al.  (That sound can travel a fair distance)
There's no shortage of 'sports cars' from my frame of reference.
 
2020-11-21 2:56:13 AM  
It is a cruel fate to suffer the consequences of other stupid people.
 
2020-11-21 2:56:42 AM  
median price for a house in 1990 - $79K? good luck. we found a 800 sq ft house in NoNJ USA for 71K. took a year to find. taxes around $10K year. with 2 incomes we could barely cover the bills while driving used Saturns.

millions are unemployed, the nation is in tatters and this chucklehead is writing of the demise of sports cars. reality is, cars were limited to the very well to do not long ago in history, much less sport models that may tend to be 2 seaters that are uncomfortable and very expensive to own and maintain.

I've noticed the poors aren't out on the tennis court that much these days. the price of balls must have sky rocketed.
 
2020-11-21 2:57:53 AM  

wantingout: isn't it also because peoples' values have changed? They just don't care about having a flashy car as much?


^

I've got a coworker who bought a lifted dually truck after we had about three months of 60 hour weeks. He got divorced a few months after that (he voluntarily worked 80+hr weeks) for some unknown reason. Now he gets child support for three kids, alimony, and payments on the truck along with a camper that a beat up ranger from the '90s could haul around. But yeah, why aren't people buying things that look fancy instead of just getting them from point A to B?
 
2020-11-21 3:00:53 AM  
The roads suck too. Infrastructure week came and went. I wouldn't enjoy a bone jarring sports suspension anyways.
 
2020-11-21 3:01:30 AM  
Manual's have been dying for at least three decades now yet you can still get them
 
2020-11-21 3:04:53 AM  

wantingout: isn't it also because peoples' values have changed? They just don't care about having a flashy car as much?


Some people aren't even interested in having a car at all.
 
2020-11-21 3:05:06 AM  
"Car fans are tired of being told we can't have nice things."

I've never ever heard that before...But then I'm not a pretentious car snob that feels entitled to have an old car....
 
2020-11-21 3:06:38 AM  
Considering a Camaro is a sports car is part of the problem.
 
2020-11-21 3:12:35 AM  
In B4 the guy who tells us that income inequality is as fake as Covid.
(Don't worry - he'll be here)
 
2020-11-21 3:15:31 AM  
I'd rather be bullseying womp rats in my speeder back home too.
 
2020-11-21 3:17:06 AM  
When you can build and tune a 90's Civic for about $5000 and take virtually any sub $100,000 "sports car", your definition of sports car might be suspect.  You can think marketing and your own lake of intelligence for that.
 
2020-11-21 3:18:42 AM  

chitownmike: Gubbo: Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing

Did you guys spoon after?


We were meant to be staying in the same room. Turns out, he booked a 2nd room in the hotel to shag brassers in private so that I wouldn't be able to tell his wife that he was shagging brassers.

Of course. How I was meant to explain him missing his flight cause he got shiat faced drunk in his own room when we were sharing a room.....

Real life is messy
 
2020-11-21 3:19:46 AM  

Naido: It's the great worldwide leveling.


More like the great cliffening. The people at the top have been given all the gains at the expense of the middle class.

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978 - Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time
 
2020-11-21 3:20:14 AM  

seelorq: 11 years with a '76 Datsun 280Z from 1990, then a few with a Mazda MX-3 V6, then a Miata for about the last 15. Also a '15 Mazda3 2.5 daily driver and I love it.

Sports car ppl gonna sports car. Sad the economy is working against us.


I want an mx-5. Like an early 10s one. But I don't know if I could call a stock one a sports car.

Stock, they just aren't that fast really
 
2020-11-21 3:21:04 AM  

C18H27NO3: I don't live close to I-10 but I live close enough that I can hear people opening up the V8s of their Chargers, Challengers, Camaros, 'Vettes, Mustangs, et al.  (That sound can travel a fair distance)
There's no shortage of 'sports cars' from my frame of reference.


Those aren't sports car. Those are muscle car.

It's a subtle distinction involving roads that aren't dead straight
 
kab
2020-11-21 3:23:00 AM  
Thank Friedman for that.
 
2020-11-21 3:26:39 AM  
My friend had an MG-TD with a Triumph Spitfire engine in it. Cherry Bomb "mufflers", Michelin tires. Sure, it had its mechanical ills, but it was a ton of fun to bomb around in.  Only thing was, if he was giving a ride to a girl, I had to sit in the back.  Kinda close quarters with the top up.
 
kab
2020-11-21 3:30:35 AM  

Gubbo: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mine died all the time

/Tried to kill me a couple of times too

Sports cars don't try to kill people.

People just try and push them past their level of driving skill.

Which, granted, is the whole point of a sports car.


To be fair, a car that doesn't have even a hint of murderous intent for its driver is boring.
 
2020-11-21 3:34:34 AM  

kab: Gubbo: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Mine died all the time

/Tried to kill me a couple of times too

Sports cars don't try to kill people.

People just try and push them past their level of driving skill.

Which, granted, is the whole point of a sports car.

To be fair, a car that doesn't have even a hint of murderous intent for its driver is boring.


You say boring. I'd say normal.

I don't want to buy a {insert most generic car you can imagine} and have it try and tempt me to the edge of speed, to the edge of grip, to the edge of the limit.

But a car that makes it clear that obviously it's meant for that edge.....

/It's 3am. I'm drunk
//And romanticising sporty cars
 
2020-11-21 3:37:10 AM  

Gubbo: chitownmike: Gubbo: Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing

Did you guys spoon after?

We were meant to be staying in the same room. Turns out, he booked a 2nd room in the hotel to shag brassers in private so that I wouldn't be able to tell his wife that he was shagging brassers.

Of course. How I was meant to explain him missing his flight cause he got shiat faced drunk in his own room when we were sharing a room.....

Real life is messy


Ohhhh. Nevada. Desert road. Bunny Ranch. No need to say more ;)
 
2020-11-21 3:38:23 AM  
I was into sports cars until I had to get a second job 30 miles away and then I started driving cars that only had good gas mileage and high safety ratings. Now I blend in with the working sheep.


///Actually I think the decline has to do with the rise of skinny jeans and metrosexuals.
 
2020-11-21 3:38:51 AM  

powhound: Gubbo: chitownmike: Gubbo: Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing

Did you guys spoon after?

We were meant to be staying in the same room. Turns out, he booked a 2nd room in the hotel to shag brassers in private so that I wouldn't be able to tell his wife that he was shagging brassers.

Of course. How I was meant to explain him missing his flight cause he got shiat faced drunk in his own room when we were sharing a room.....

Real life is messy

Ohhhh. Nevada. Desert road. Bunny Ranch. No need to say more ;)


The road. Yes.

The ranch. Well, he is/was married. But hookers are happy to come to your hotel room lol
 
2020-11-21 3:40:39 AM  
I don't care enough to RTFA, its the damn millenials again isn't it? Is there no limit to their murderous rampage?
 
2020-11-21 3:41:56 AM  
"Sad" tag seems nostalgic for a stupid history. The "car culture" of yore was about impressing others by driving unsafe vehicles in unsafe ways. The 1969 camaro ad pictured, with an alluring woman bending over the passenger side door, shows how Madison Ave convinced a generation "this is how you get laid". We should celebrate the gradual demise of "car go fast" fetishization.
 
2020-11-21 3:44:40 AM  

Theory Of Null: I was into sports cars until I had to get a second job 30 miles away and then I started driving cars that only had good gas mileage and high safety ratings. Now I blend in with the working sheep.


///Actually I think the decline has to do with the rise of skinny jeans and metrosexuals.


It's 2020. You can buy a safe car that looks boring but goes like a bat out of hell.

Hmm, I haven't looked in a while. What does a used Nissan GT-R go for these days

/or an M3 I guess
 
2020-11-21 3:55:53 AM  

Gubbo: Nissan GT-R



MPG: 16 city / 22 highway. Just to travel back and forth to work that would cost me around $2,400 per year in gas. That means a months pay from that Job would go entirely to gas, GTFOH
 
2020-11-21 3:58:33 AM  
It is not just one thing.

Scene: 17 year old in his 454 V8 Chevy with headers, screaming down I-25 at 2 am at over 120 mph (pegged speedometer!) without a care in the world. It is his car (700 bucks!), he pays the insurance, he buys his own gas (39 cents a gallon!), and his girlfriend loves his car. Not a care in the world.

Ah. To be young. Well. Used to be you could get a part time job from age 14 and save up your money to buy your own car, a beater, when you got your license at 16. Then you could get a better job, work part time, fix up your car, and save some more. Roads were great and not congested. The police were not going to kill you or charge you with a felony for speeding like an idiot. Nobody was going to report you. You could fix your car in your driveway and not have an HOA to hassle you.

What has changed? Everything. Not just the money, but that is a big part of it. People live right on top of each other. Speeding is dangerous. The roads suck. 16 year olds don't drive. 17 year olds do not work until 2 am to pay for their cars. Everything has consequences. Cops WANT to bust you and hassle you and seize your car. It just ain't the wild west anymore. No Mustangs, Pintos, or any other wild horses.

Driving is just not that fun anymore. And maybe it is for the best. Go play GTA and leave the roads for reasonable people to use. If we all drove reasonably and responsibly, we would be safer, use less gas, with cheaper insurance, lighter and smaller vehicles. Hell, even electric vehicles could have reasonably sized batteries instead of.... you know.... "vrooom vrooom me go fast look at me".
 
2020-11-21 3:59:17 AM  

Theory Of Null: Gubbo: Nissan GT-R


MPG: 16 city / 22 highway. Just to travel back and forth to work that would cost me around $2,400 per year in gas. That means a months pay from that Job would go entirely to gas, GTFOH


It can't be that bad. Can it?

Damn. The electric car has spoiled me

/Except for handling
//batteries are heavy
///Like F-150 heavy
 
2020-11-21 4:02:03 AM  
That's part of the reason I want a new Supra.

It's a cool car that's part of a dying breed. Automakers don't see developing sports cars in their future so much. The money makers are SUVs, people. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of car manufacturers are going all-in on electric vehicles within a decade. If we do see new sports cars, they will be developed jointly between two manufacturing entities, and it's already happening that way.

Mazda's MX-5, Fiat's Spider, same car. Subaru's BRZ and Toyota's 86? Same car. The aforementioned Supra? Shares major components with BMW. Nobody's going it alone if they want to bring people innovative, fun new cars. It's just too much of an expense.
 
2020-11-21 4:02:37 AM  

Gubbo: powhound: Gubbo: chitownmike: Gubbo: Couple of years back a buddy (who holds a few racing licenses) and me were in Vegas. We rented a Jag F-type. Beautiful car. Wonderful to drive.

He knew this nice little road out in the desert. So I took it as fast as I was comfortable with. Drove it the point I was scared and was perfectly happy.

Then he drove it. Made me look like a granny on her way to church.

It was exhilarating.

/no point to this story other than a fast car driven well is amazing

Did you guys spoon after?

We were meant to be staying in the same room. Turns out, he booked a 2nd room in the hotel to shag brassers in private so that I wouldn't be able to tell his wife that he was shagging brassers.

Of course. How I was meant to explain him missing his flight cause he got shiat faced drunk in his own room when we were sharing a room.....

Real life is messy

Ohhhh. Nevada. Desert road. Bunny Ranch. No need to say more ;)

The road. Yes.

The ranch. Well, he is/was married. But hookers are happy to come to your hotel room lol


Lololol. I've made several trips down to vegas but never was one to pay for sex in the literal business sense hahaha. Soooo no hookers in the hotel rooms.

Was there once with a rather naive young man. He was a mentor for the robotics team I coach and we were there for a competition. We were driving about for food and in passing  by the Venetian I pointed out a couple gals wearing short skirts and told him they were most likely wearing at the most thongs underneath. Sure enough one of them bent over and he was like ummmm omg ....
 
2020-11-21 4:04:45 AM  
I think part of the problem with new "sports cars" is that the performance thresholds are so high, and hence they are so expensive.

Even "bad" cars are absolute rocket-ships, with adhesion thresholds way above what the average person can reach.

Its interesting that the car displayed (The SS) is probably what should be classed as a bad car with a rocket motor attached to it.

I sports car by definition should be cheap, because, well you get less....


Gubbo: Theory Of Null: I was into sports cars until I had to get a second job 30 miles away and then I started driving cars that only had good gas mileage and high safety ratings. Now I blend in with the working sheep.


///Actually I think the decline has to do with the rise of skinny jeans and metrosexuals.

It's 2020. You can buy a safe car that looks boring but goes like a bat out of hell.

Hmm, I haven't looked in a while. What does a used Nissan GT-R go for these days

/or an M3 I guess


Well I probably wouldn't class a Nissan GT-R as a sports car, that's more super-car Territory. They (even the old ones) were always a very expensive piece of kit.

One thing that does always irk me with comparing cars is that nobody ever remembers the price differences of cars when they were brand new:

I have a car that was very cheap when brand new, but then gets compared to cars 4-5 times its cost (brand new) and then gets denigrated for its (obvious) drawbacks verses such cars.
 
2020-11-21 4:07:49 AM  
Today's typical sedans offer handling and power at levels that would've put them at or near the top of the heap performance-wise compared to an 80's sports car, which themselves were miles ahead of sports cars just 10 years older. These days, 0-60 in 5 seconds, 0.9G -ish skid pad are pretty routine for a 6-cylinder 4-door sedan.

How? Mostly it's tires co-evolved with chassis, and advanced engine designs and controls that make it all possible.

So who needs a sports car? Not many people. Given enough money, you can get mind-blowing performance well beyond your driving ability, yet usually with well-tamed oversteer, and equipped with enough traction nannies to save your sorry ass when you get in over your head.

For a lot less money there's cars like the MX-5 or BRZ, each of which offer the virtue of a pure, balanced driving experience without being overwhelming or unpredictable. They both have robust racing and aftermarket support, but are also reasonable daily drivers.

Or you can get a Mustang, which seems to be magnetically attracted to trees and telephone poles. But, you do you.
 
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