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5569 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Oct 2020 at 3:20 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-31 12:07:03 PM  
Hmmmmm🤔. Overturning an executive order can be done by the senate.

Leper-mitch, you're our only hope
 
2020-10-31 12:16:31 PM  
In statement that accompanied the order, the White House took aim at those protections, saying they make it too difficult for agency heads to remove "poor performers."

Every accusation a confession
 
2020-10-31 12:56:18 PM  
I think this will be his final Fark You. Also an indirect blackmail attempt at getting them to vote for him.
 
2020-10-31 3:07:19 PM  
F is for Fauci?
 
2020-10-31 3:22:39 PM  
We are about to fire the highest ranking government employee.
 
2020-10-31 3:24:04 PM  

Flincher: Hmmmmm🤔. Overturning an executive order can be done by the senate.

Leper-mitch, you're our only hope


Where did you get this idea
 
2020-10-31 3:24:49 PM  
Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.
 
2020-10-31 3:24:54 PM  

Flincher: Hmmmmm🤔. Overturning an executive order can be done by the senate.

Leper-mitch, you're our only hope


Due to the Administrative Procedure Act, Congress has 60 working days to review everything this administration does.

Given how much vacation they take, that means the next Senate.
 
2020-10-31 3:24:55 PM  
My current full-time job is in the civil service. If Trump manages to pull out a victory, I'll be looking for new work. There's no way my position won't be considered "policy-making", and I'm registered as a Democrat.
 
2020-10-31 3:25:30 PM  
I don't even get why Trump felt it necessary to do this.

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.  That's why when you compare it to the private sector government work pays so much more than private work.  The government has to pay so much more to attract those hard-working highly skilled individuals.
 
2020-10-31 3:25:52 PM  

lemurtx: In statement that accompanied the order, the White House took aim at those protections, saying they make it too difficult for agency heads to remove "poor performers."

Every accusation a confession


It IS hard to fire people in the federal government.  Why?  Because managers are given too many direct reports that they have to manage.  If one of them is a total FARK up, the manager has to spend a LOT of time documenting it, giving them a "get well plan," documenting that, drafting rationale, dealing with the appeal, etc.  That takes away from all their other duties.  Heck, if managers sufficient enough time and resources, they might actually have the time to help bad performers get their shiat back together instead of having them retire in place.

Don't change the rules regarding how an employee gets fired.  Give managers a chance to ACTUALLY manage (including the time to fire them).
 
2020-10-31 3:26:00 PM  
Does this really matter in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not understanding this this isn't an issue that won't go away come January.  Sure, he can mess things up in the meantime, but it seems that nearly all of this damage can be undone.  Maybe I'm missing something.
 
2020-10-31 3:27:05 PM  
This is his coup attempt, but, it's probably too late. He can fire everyone he has power over between now and Jan 21st, it won't matter.  They can be rehired if they aren't pure garbage, but there's limited damage between now and then that he hasn't already done.

The walls keep closing in, it's time for the rats one last desperate attempt to fight against it.
 
2020-10-31 3:30:36 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.


Trump appointees are political appointees that (generally) serve at the will of the president.  They already were going to be replaced by Biden appointees under a new administration.

This targets career federal employees.  The people that are supposed to serve regardless of who the president is.  The people whose loyalty is supposed to be to the country, not to a political party or a president.

You can see what Trump's problem is with them.
 
2020-10-31 3:30:58 PM  

austerity101: Does this really matter in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not understanding this this isn't an issue that won't go away come January.  Sure, he can mess things up in the meantime, but it seems that nearly all of this damage can be undone.  Maybe I'm missing something.


Imagine this.  He loses the election.  He can't get his appeal to work through the supreme court.  So he knows he will out on his butt and open to arrest in NY, etc. On his way out, he declares all GS-15 employees as Schedule F.  Then on 19 January he fires them all.

Think that would work into Russia's hands?
 
2020-10-31 3:31:50 PM  

Krieghund: Mad_Radhu: Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.

Trump appointees are political appointees that (generally) serve at the will of the president.  They already were going to be replaced by Biden appointees under a new administration.

This targets career federal employees.  The people that are supposed to serve regardless of who the president is.  The people whose loyalty is supposed to be to the country, not to a political party or a president.

You can see what Trump's problem is with them.


I mean, it's not like Trump can pass some kind of ironclad "no takesies-backsies" law, so even if he fires some really important people, they can just be rehired in the immediate future, yes?
 
2020-10-31 3:32:45 PM  

sleze: austerity101: Does this really matter in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not understanding this this isn't an issue that won't go away come January.  Sure, he can mess things up in the meantime, but it seems that nearly all of this damage can be undone.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Imagine this.  He loses the election.  He can't get his appeal to work through the supreme court.  So he knows he will out on his butt and open to arrest in NY, etc. On his way out, he declares all GS-15 employees as Schedule F.  Then on 19 January he fires them all.

Think that would work into Russia's hands?


I guess I'm not understanding this scenario.
 
2020-10-31 3:33:32 PM  
The only thing that surprises me is that he didn't do this sooner.
 
2020-10-31 3:34:21 PM  
Rachel Greszler, a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, which supports the order, says it's "a common-sense change" to address a lack of accountability in the federal government.

i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 3:37:12 PM  
Bachman Turner Overdrive - You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet 1974 Video Sound HQ
Youtube 4cia_v4vxfE
 
2020-10-31 3:38:15 PM  

austerity101: Krieghund: Mad_Radhu: Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.

Trump appointees are political appointees that (generally) serve at the will of the president.  They already were going to be replaced by Biden appointees under a new administration.

This targets career federal employees.  The people that are supposed to serve regardless of who the president is.  The people whose loyalty is supposed to be to the country, not to a political party or a president.

You can see what Trump's problem is with them.

I mean, it's not like Trump can pass some kind of ironclad "no takesies-backsies" law, so even if he fires some really important people, they can just be rehired in the immediate future, yes?


It's funny because you wrote "taksies backsies". It's smart because I don't know shiat. You must know your stuff. wee......I'll still post stuff cuz why not?
Feels like we're all gonna die soon anyway. I've said too much.
 
2020-10-31 3:44:08 PM  

RussianPotato: I don't even get why Trump felt it necessary to do this.

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.  That's why when you compare it to the private sector government work pays so much more than private work.  The government has to pay so much more to attract those hard-working highly skilled individuals.


It's because they're competent and loyal to the US Constitution instead of Donald Trump that Trump wants them gone.

This is a brain drain.
Trump only hires dumb loyalists.
Smartypants are considered to be threats.

James Comey was fired for being honest and having integrity instead of blind loyalty.
 
2020-10-31 3:46:17 PM  
Sure, this rule can be undone. The real problem is that many of these people are career civil servants. They aren't political appointees who can afford to get fired/rehired every couple of years with the changing of the guard.

This will cause a talent drain at all levels of government since only the foolhardy will be willing to take those risks. The rest of the government will begin to look like the Trump appointee pool.
 
2020-10-31 3:46:54 PM  

sleze: lemurtx: In statement that accompanied the order, the White House took aim at those protections, saying they make it too difficult for agency heads to remove "poor performers."

Every accusation a confession

It IS hard to fire people in the federal government.  Why?  Because managers are given too many direct reports that they have to manage.  If one of them is a total FARK up, the manager has to spend a LOT of time documenting it, giving them a "get well plan," documenting that, drafting rationale, dealing with the appeal, etc.  That takes away from all their other duties.  Heck, if managers sufficient enough time and resources, they might actually have the time to help bad performers get their shiat back together instead of having them retire in place.

Don't change the rules regarding how an employee gets fired.  Give managers a chance to ACTUALLY manage (including the time to fire them).


Even if that is all true, it's not the reason Trump has done this. He's trying to purge the civil servant workforce of Democrats, and replace them with Trumpist toadies.
 
2020-10-31 3:50:46 PM  
I hope a Democratic-contrilled Congress will give Biden 90 days to fix Trump's fark-ups, then ram through a new law where POTUS can issue Exec Orders only during time of declared wars & national emergencies (+60 days), then Congress can rescind them. We've got to get rid of the Imperial Presidencies. Presidents have too much power. Except when they need to act as CinC, they should be weak as kittens w/only the power of Veto.

We did not have a Revolution to crown new kings.
 
2020-10-31 3:55:34 PM  
RussianPotato:

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.

This, only without the obvious sarcasm.
 
2020-10-31 3:56:49 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: I hope a Democratic-contrilled Congress will give Biden 90 days to fix Trump's fark-ups, then ram through a new law where POTUS can issue Exec Orders only during time of declared wars & national emergencies (+60 days), then Congress can rescind them. We've got to get rid of the Imperial Presidencies. Presidents have too much power. Except when they need to act as CinC, they should be weak as kittens w/only the power of Veto.

We did not have a Revolution to crown new kings.


Then we'll just see these endless undeclared wars become declared wars. "War on Terror" will become the next Hundred Years War.
 
2020-10-31 3:57:05 PM  
The Civil Service Act is a federal statute, and those can't be nullified by executive order.  Although maybe that will change with Justice Beer and Justice Theocrat on the court.
 
2020-10-31 3:59:42 PM  
It sounds like this order will allow Joe Biden to fire all the conservatives in the government who are undoubtedly sabotaging its efforts to govern effectively. And he could simply hire back any of the competent people the Trump administration fired for being good at their jobs while being Democrats.
 
2020-10-31 4:02:00 PM  
Trump has installed unfit loyalist lackeys at every level of gov't.

This schedule F shiat would enable Trump to remove even more competent people in gov't and replace them with more of the same.

Like a lot more.

Historically speaking this type of thing doesn't end well.
 
2020-10-31 4:03:09 PM  

austerity101: Does this really matter in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not understanding this this isn't an issue that won't go away come January.  Sure, he can mess things up in the meantime, but it seems that nearly all of this damage can be undone.  Maybe I'm missing something.


Trump is setting up to replace the majority of the non-political positions with Republican loyalists.  The competent employees keep interfering with his efforts to fark things up (See: Fauci) so he wants them gone.
 
2020-10-31 4:03:19 PM  
and this means that its going to be easier to remove the maga sycophants
 
2020-10-31 4:04:28 PM  

Murkanen: RussianPotato:

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.

This, only without the obvious sarcasm.


Having worked for the federal government in DC, and met many skilled and dedicated professionals who could have been earning much more money in the private sector, I can confidently say you both are full of shiat.  Any organization that employs two million people is going to have its share of losers.  But you are just perpetuating the bullshiat that started with Ronald Reagan and has become right wing gospel.  Go light a candle for Saint Ronnie and don't forget to fark off.
 
2020-10-31 4:08:10 PM  

RussianPotato: I don't even get why Trump felt it necessary to do this.

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.  That's why when you compare it to the private sector government work pays so much more than private work. The government has to pay so much more to attract those hard-working highly skilled individuals.


Narrator: No. It does not, although the benefits might be better.
 
2020-10-31 4:09:01 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: I hope a Democratic-contrilled Congress will give Biden 90 days to fix Trump's fark-ups, then ram through a new law where POTUS can issue Exec Orders only during time of declared wars & national emergencies (+60 days), then Congress can rescind them. We've got to get rid of the Imperial Presidencies. Presidents have too much power. Except when they need to act as CinC, they should be weak as kittens w/only the power of Veto.

We did not have a Revolution to crown new kings.


No President ever walks back what their predecessors gave them.  Just a question of what powers they choose to use.
 
2020-10-31 4:15:41 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.


These are smart people experts in their field. No one who supports trump qualifies. If we had an office in Fascist tactics, Stephen Miller would be that guy, but we don't.
 
2020-10-31 4:16:21 PM  
Raoul Eaton:

Having worked for the federal government in DC, and met many skilled and dedicated professionals who could have been earning much more money in the private sector, I can confidently say you both are full of shiat.

So you're in violent agreement with me.

/"without the sarcasm" means I'm saying it sincerely.
 
2020-10-31 4:17:45 PM  

rolladuck: My current full-time job is in the civil service. If Trump manages to pull out a victory, I'll be looking for new work. There's no way my position won't be considered "policy-making", and I'm registered as a Democrat.


Just learn to Vick your heels while saying heil trumer! That will fool them!
 
2020-10-31 4:20:16 PM  

RussianPotato: I don't even get why Trump felt it necessary to do this.

If there's one group of workers known for their competence, their hard work, their accountability, and their skill level, it's government workers.  That's why when you compare it to the private sector government work pays so much more than private work.  The government has to pay so much more to attract those hard-working highly skilled individuals.


Maybe in Russia.

In America, most lawyers could make a lot more in the private sector, but choose civil service because they truly want to serve the American people.

They even want to help the shiatbirds like you who spit on them.
 
2020-10-31 4:20:42 PM  

Murkanen: Raoul Eaton:

Having worked for the federal government in DC, and met many skilled and dedicated professionals who could have been earning much more money in the private sector, I can confidently say you both are full of shiat.

So you're in violent agreement with me.

/"without the sarcasm" means I'm saying it sincerely.


My apologies, obviously I misunderstood.  Only Potato needs to fark off.
 
2020-10-31 4:21:14 PM  

sleze: lemurtx: In statement that accompanied the order, the White House took aim at those protections, saying they make it too difficult for agency heads to remove "poor performers."

Every accusation a confession

It IS hard to fire people in the federal government.  Why?  Because managers are given too many direct reports that they have to manage.  If one of them is a total FARK up, the manager has to spend a LOT of time documenting it, giving them a "get well plan," documenting that, drafting rationale, dealing with the appeal, etc.  That takes away from all their other duties.  Heck, if managers sufficient enough time and resources, they might actually have the time to help bad performers get their shiat back together instead of having them retire in place.

Don't change the rules regarding how an employee gets fired.  Give managers a chance to ACTUALLY manage (including the time to fire them).


You haven't been watching what the Republicans have been doing for the last 30 years.  Civil Service GS workers are more and more rare, almost always being replaced by contractors.  Said contractors effectively work on the same job, year after year, while their "employers" change almost annually.  And typically the "employer" is a huge company contracted by a tiny company with an owner who ticks all the right checkmarks (ideally a Native Alaskan veteran woman) to get the contract.

This not only weakens the civil service and the GS union, but also makes sure that 50+% of the money flows into corporate overhead (with appropriate kickbacks to the powerful) instead of actual workers.  It also makes them far easier to fire.
 
2020-10-31 4:22:48 PM  

austerity101: Does this really matter in the grand scheme of things?  I'm not understanding this this isn't an issue that won't go away come January.  Sure, he can mess things up in the meantime, but it seems that nearly all of this damage can be undone.  Maybe I'm missing something.


Once Federal Government Service employees are fired/retired/etc, it takes 10-18 MONTHS to hire a new employee ... assuming the Office of Personnel & Management (OPM) is fully staffed and functional. Tantrum Yam's executive order allows the Executive branch to unilaterally re-classify hundreds of thousands of federal workers as this new "schedule F"- which means they can be fired at the whim of whatever political appointee happens to run that agency. At least some of those federal workers are likely to work at OPM, because OPM rules are a lot of the rules Dolt45 claims make up the so-called "deep state", preventing him from implementing his brilliant "plans" to "streamline" the US government.

As a "poison pill" move and a final fark YOU to the US (in general) and the new President (in particular), Piggy McTinyhands could gut just about every federal agency by eliminating a couple of hundred thousand newly-designated "schedule F" workers. It would take years- up to a decade- to replace these workers, and simply hiring the old ones back is not an option under civil service rules. Every hiring (with limited exceptions) must be a competitive process without consideration of the political or religious beliefs of the candidate employees. The only practical way around these rules would be if Congress passes a one-time exception bill to permit re-hiring (and re-classifying) those employees fired at Emperor Hirocheeto's command.

I suspect this EO is invalid on its face- even considering the proposed end-run around the Civil Service Act by means of re-classifying government workers. Presidents aren't allowed to invalidate enacted legislation via executive order (assuming stare decisis still has any meaning in courts packed by Moscow Mitch and Dotard Donnie). Derpublicans have hated the civil service system for decades, and they seem to be acting as if this is their one-and-only chance to get rid of it.
 
2020-10-31 4:26:44 PM  

HerptheDerp: This is his coup attempt, but, it's probably too late. He can fire everyone he has power over between now and Jan 21st, it won't matter.  They can be rehired if they aren't pure garbage, but there's limited damage between now and then that he hasn't already done.

The walls keep closing in, it's time for the rats one last desperate attempt to fight against it.


The trouble is if he does fire some of these people they may lose their healthcare and pension. Hopefully the courts will block it.
 
2020-10-31 4:28:42 PM  

born_yesterday: The only thing that surprises me is that he didn't do this sooner.


Yeh turning the whole federal workforce against you is always a good idea for a sitting POTUS.
 
2020-10-31 4:32:28 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: I hope a Democratic-contrilled Congress will give Biden 90 days to fix Trump's fark-ups, then ram through a new law where POTUS can issue Exec Orders only during time of declared wars & national emergencies (+60 days), then Congress can rescind them. We've got to get rid of the Imperial Presidencies. Presidents have too much power. Except when they need to act as CinC, they should be weak as kittens w/only the power of Veto.

We did not have a Revolution to crown new kings.


I wouldn't say that sometimes the POTUS uses The Orders for good like when Obama created Dreamers, or when he protected federal workers from discrimination due to sexual orientation.
 
2020-10-31 4:32:30 PM  

austerity101: I mean, it's not like Trump can pass some kind of ironclad "no takesies-backsies" law, so even if he fires some really important people, they can just be rehired in the immediate future, yes?


NO.

Not without specific legislation allowing a violation of civil service rules. The civil service employment process MUST be competitive, and there are loads of protections in place to eliminate political/religious/ethnic/sexual discrimination in the hiring process. This is the bit derpublicans have hated most about the civil service system- they can't restrict employment to white male christian heterosexuals, and they aren't allowed to get rid of all the non-white, non-christian, non-male, non-heterosexual government workers.

Derpublicans must get rid of those "undesirables", because their presence (and the generally high level of competence in government service) undercuts the derpublican message that government doesn't work unless rich old white guys are the only ones allowed to be in charge.
 
2020-10-31 4:33:12 PM  

untoldforce: Lurk Who's Talking: I hope a Democratic-contrilled Congress will give Biden 90 days to fix Trump's fark-ups, then ram through a new law where POTUS can issue Exec Orders only during time of declared wars & national emergencies (+60 days), then Congress can rescind them. We've got to get rid of the Imperial Presidencies. Presidents have too much power. Except when they need to act as CinC, they should be weak as kittens w/only the power of Veto.

We did not have a Revolution to crown new kings.

Then we'll just see these endless undeclared wars become declared wars. "War on Terror" will become the next Hundred Years War.


Technically the war on terror hasn't ended.
 
2020-10-31 4:41:11 PM  

TFerWannaBe: It sounds like this order will allow Joe Biden to fire all the conservatives in the government who are undoubtedly sabotaging its efforts to govern effectively. And he could simply hire back any of the competent people the Trump administration fired for being good at their jobs while being Democrats.


No. Please check out my other posts in this thread.

Assuming this order passes judicial review (unlikely, IMO), this would allow Tantrum Yam to cripple any government agency or department by means of eliminating several hundred thousand employees who were previously protected from such discriminatory conduct by the Civil Service Act. It would take many years to re-fill those positions through the civil service process, and the people fired in this way would be out of work the entire time.

The President cannot simply wave a magic wand and hire whoever he likes for civil service positions. POTUS only has this power for politically-appointed positions. Hiring a new civil service worker takes more than a year these days WITHOUT having most of the federal agencies being gutted of civil service employees. Trying to keep government agencies running AND trying to hire hundreds of thousands of new workers (including re-hiring the fired ones) would cripple US government functions for ages.
 
2020-10-31 4:48:53 PM  

punkwrestler: Mad_Radhu: Hopefully that just makes it easier to clean house of Trump appointees come January, if all goes well on Tuesday.

These are smart people experts in their field. No one who supports trump qualifies. If we had an office in Fascist tactics, Stephen Miller would be that guy, but we don't.


It's been almost four years, though. I'm sure there are some Trump loyalists that have wormed their way into the federal service at several agencies and will continue to undermine the agencies well after Trump is gone. Hopefully the eventual new management will set some of these people straight as to what their job is supposed to be.
 
2020-10-31 4:49:36 PM  
When did NPR become a right-wing mouth piece?

They always bring in a "reference" who's some laughably biased RW thinktank goon. Or at least the few times I've given a shiat enough to read them.
 
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