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(NBC News)   Firefighters say they are burned out   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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2312 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Oct 2020 at 2:11 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-31 1:28:24 PM  
"When asked if he would like to return to wildland firefighting, with an agency like Cal Fire, Dunham did not hesitate. "I would go jump on a Cal Fire engine in a heartbeat," he said."

The pay from CalFire at the position he would be in starts at $50k+ with benefits.  They also get paid "portal-to-portal" 24 hours a day from the moment they are called out.  CalFire does not get called for fires outside California unless the shiats hitting the fan because they are so expensive, compared to what regular USFS firefighters are paid. CalFire treats their employees well because they need them all year long.

Some of the USFS firefighters started their season in January, working in Australia and are still out on incidents in the western USA.
 
2020-10-31 2:16:18 PM  
Me too.
 
2020-10-31 2:18:54 PM  
is this like mask fatigue?  if so, I can relate
 
2020-10-31 2:21:41 PM  
"Federal wildland firefighters say they're burned out after years of low pay, little job stability"

I would have thought that job stability wouldn't be a major issue recently.  It seems like we've had plenty of fires for them to be working on.  I'd say that there's been plenty of work for firefighters.

Sadly.
 
2020-10-31 2:23:45 PM  
"Golden is just one of thousands of federal wildland firefighters who work six months out of the year and whose part-time status doesn't come with the typical benefits or job security given to state and city firefighters."

The richest nation in history on the backs of the underpaid and over exploited.
 
2020-10-31 2:24:42 PM  
Given climate change, you'd think their job market would be on fire right now...
 
2020-10-31 2:27:09 PM  
As a nation, we don't deserve their dedication.
 
2020-10-31 2:27:23 PM  
The physical requirements of a job like this alone are insane. These are people who'd, for example, have to meet or exceed the physical requirements of Ranger school for a comparable level of physical fitness. The amount of training alone they undergo yearly to conduct missions on the fireline, especially in austere settings far from traditional urban/wildfire interfaces should mean they get a regular paycheck.

Instead, they're exploited and left to wonder if they'll have a job. Or if they should go to work for a state or local agency instead.
 
2020-10-31 2:29:28 PM  
Golden is just one of thousands of federal wildland firefighters who work six months out of the year and whose part-time status doesn't come with the typical benefits or job security given to state and city firefighters.


But hey, how about that Space Force, eh?
 
2020-10-31 2:30:58 PM  
They should lay the blame where it belongs.
At the feet of the Forestry Rakers Union.
 
2020-10-31 2:31:11 PM  

ltdanman44: is this like mask fatigue?  if so, I can relate


You got used to wearing pants and shoes all the time. You can farking well get used to wearing a mask when you go to MallWart.

This is firefighters doing dangerous, backbreaking work under terrible conditions and worse labor conditions. What they have to go through is infinitely worse than your tender feefees getting hurt by having to take basic public health precautions. And they wear masks, too.
 
2020-10-31 2:32:30 PM  
They could try making a calendar to spice things up.
 
2020-10-31 2:44:16 PM  
Most rank-and-file temporary seasonal workers are starting at an hourly base salary of approximately $13 per hour plus overtime and hazard pay. One current USFS firefighter posted to Reddit recently showing that after eight years of service his gross pay topped out at around $30,000 annually.

Um...WHAT. THE. FARK?
 
2020-10-31 2:44:52 PM  

Miss_Dorothy_Kilgallen: "Federal wildland firefighters say they're burned out after years of low pay, little job stability"

I would have thought that job stability wouldn't be a major issue recently.  It seems like we've had plenty of fires for them to be working on.  I'd say that there's been plenty of work for firefighters.

Sadly.


They're a "1039", working 1039 hours (regular work year is 2080 hours) required to be off for one pay period so that they are not eligible for regular benefits. They then come back and work another 1039 hours.

There are a lot of firefighters that can't work now due to having worked so many hours this year, exhausting the funding for their positions as they are "temporary" employees.

/not subby but work wildfires for the USFS
 
2020-10-31 2:50:14 PM  
They don't do it just for the pay, they do it for that sweet "h-pay"

Old Dirt Road
Youtube XjgjSKv4a04
 
2020-10-31 2:51:06 PM  

ltdanman44: is this like mask fatigue?  if so, I can relate


see the problem with these forest fires is we are noticing the smoke too much.  If there were no smoke there, would be no fire.  We just have too much smoke, more smoke than any other country.

Also, we need to open the parks.  people need to be having gender reveal parties with fireworks so that our economy can keep doing great things.  We gotta let the fire burn out all of the forests so that we get fire immunity.

These so called expert firefighters keep trying to put the fire out, all the while flooding peoples homes with water causing more damage than the fire itself. Most houses will barely even burn. Either way, we need to stop with these waterhose mandates and trying to flood the country to try to put these fires out.  The cure cannot be worse than the thing.
 
2020-10-31 2:56:06 PM  

hardinparamedic: "Or if they should go to work for a state or local agency instead."


This used to be a feature, not a bug for "the party of small govt". Unfortunately, fire danger has evolved from an acute local problem to a regional one. Federal bureaucracy has not changed apace. Hopefully, soon the BLM and the department of the interior will have actual leaders, and not just placeholding grifters.
 
2020-10-31 3:04:09 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 3:05:23 PM  
Maybe that'll teach the forestry department to rake the forests.
 
2020-10-31 3:18:04 PM  
What sparked this?
 
2020-10-31 3:24:42 PM  

EL EM: As a nation, we don't deserve their dedication.


Hang on, let me toss my cigarette out the window so I can respond to this.
 
2020-10-31 3:31:36 PM  
Tastes like burnout

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 3:31:57 PM  

abhorrent1: Most rank-and-file temporary seasonal workers are starting at an hourly base salary of approximately $13 per hour plus overtime and hazard pay. One current USFS firefighter posted to Reddit recently showing that after eight years of service his gross pay topped out at around $30,000 annually.

Um...WHAT. THE. FARK?


Well, now he knows what it's like to be a teacher in America.

Except students are more dangerous.
 
2020-10-31 3:34:04 PM  

LordOfThePings: Tastes like burnout

[Fark user image 537x391]


Flanders' Five Alarm Chili!
Youtube CfHohluw6k0
 
2020-10-31 3:49:10 PM  

indy_kid: abhorrent1: Most rank-and-file temporary seasonal workers are starting at an hourly base salary of approximately $13 per hour plus overtime and hazard pay. One current USFS firefighter posted to Reddit recently showing that after eight years of service his gross pay topped out at around $30,000 annually.

Um...WHAT. THE. FARK?

Well, now he knows what it's like to be a teacher in America.

Except students are more dangerous.


I wouldn't do either of those things for $13/hr. I can't go make hotdogs at the Portillo's down the street for that.
 
2020-10-31 3:59:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: The physical requirements of a job like this alone are insane. These are people who'd, for example, have to meet or exceed the physical requirements of Ranger school for a comparable level of physical fitness. The amount of training alone they undergo yearly to conduct missions on the fireline, especially in austere settings far from traditional urban/wildfire interfaces should mean they get a regular paycheck.

Instead, they're exploited and left to wonder if they'll have a job. Or if they should go to work for a state or local agency instead.


Meanwhile, the bureaucrats who are doing the really important work like massaging spreadsheets stay employed year-round, and now even work from home.
 
2020-10-31 4:00:04 PM  
just send a bus to downtown areas with baggie's of meth and heroin, have them pick up anybody who wants to fight the fire and give them the dope at the end of the day or once objectives are accomplished. you either end up with less fire or less drug addicts you can't lose.
 
2020-10-31 4:00:19 PM  
Woodland firefighting has always paid shiat, and always had plenty of guys willing to do it.
 
2020-10-31 4:19:25 PM  
If only there were a segment of the population sitting idle, needing money and training
 
2020-10-31 4:21:43 PM  
my dad was born in 1921. when he was in his 20's there was great poverty upon 'murica. the gov't created the CCC's - the Civil Consevation Corps. unemployed young 'muricans were recruited and sent into the wild to create fish hatcheries, fire roads in future national parks, and to fight fires. they were paid very little but it was a uniform, 3 hots and a cot in tough times. it was a constructive way to keep young people away from shenanigans during idle times. just the type of positive 'murican project the ACLU would lawsuit right into the ground.

we have hundreds of thousands of bored to tears prisoners in 'murican institutions. bet dollars o donuts they would love to get out in the fresh air and use a shovel. but nooooooooooo. this is why we can't have nice things.
 
2020-10-31 4:23:30 PM  

hardinparamedic: The physical requirements of a job like this alone are insane. These are people who'd, for example, have to meet or exceed the physical requirements of Ranger school for a comparable level of physical fitness. The amount of training alone they undergo yearly to conduct missions on the fireline, especially in austere settings far from traditional urban/wildfire interfaces should mean they get a regular paycheck.

Instead, they're exploited and left to wonder if they'll have a job. Or if they should go to work for a state or local agency instead.


Exploited is a bit a strong word.

The real reason they can demand those physical requirements and pay as little as they do.. Is that they manage to fill those positions.

Wages aren't about fair. Wages are about what people are willing to do. Lots of jobs that are deemed desirable by some subset of the population are able to pay very low wages because people want to do them and are willing to accept those wages.
 
2020-10-31 5:15:08 PM  
They should hire more forest rakers. Way cheaper! MAKE AMERICA RAKE AGAIN!
 
2020-10-31 5:17:18 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: hardinparamedic: The physical requirements of a job like this alone are insane. These are people who'd, for example, have to meet or exceed the physical requirements of Ranger school for a comparable level of physical fitness. The amount of training alone they undergo yearly to conduct missions on the fireline, especially in austere settings far from traditional urban/wildfire interfaces should mean they get a regular paycheck.

Instead, they're exploited and left to wonder if they'll have a job. Or if they should go to work for a state or local agency instead.

Exploited is a bit a strong word.

The real reason they can demand those physical requirements and pay as little as they do.. Is that they manage to fill those positions.

Wages aren't about fair. Wages are about what people are willing to do. Lots of jobs that are deemed desirable by some subset of the population are able to pay very low wages because people want to do them and are willing to accept those wages.


YOU SOLVED IT, DUDE!

HEY, EVERYBODY, ADAM SMITH OVER HERE SOLVED THE LOW WAGE THING!
 
2020-10-31 5:19:13 PM  

redly1: If only there were a segment of the population sitting idle, needing money and training


Women?

/i kid
 
2020-10-31 5:55:41 PM  
My suggestion would be to not vote for Republicans because they will make the situation much worse.
 
2020-10-31 6:10:53 PM  

Nadie_AZ: "Golden is just one of thousands of federal wildland firefighters who work six months out of the year and whose part-time status doesn't come with the typical benefits or job security given to state and city firefighters."

The richest nation in history on the backs of the underpaid and over exploited.


Do you know how you know if you're underpaid for the work you're doing?


Someone will pay you more for the work you're doing.

Also goes for me.  If someone wants to pay me more for the same or less work, then I'm underpaid.  If they don't, I'm not. Presently, no one wants to give me more money, except in places where the government will take all the extra, so I'm appropriately paid, apparently.
 
2020-10-31 8:02:36 PM  

alex10294: Nadie_AZ: "Golden is just one of thousands of federal wildland firefighters who work six months out of the year and whose part-time status doesn't come with the typical benefits or job security given to state and city firefighters."

The richest nation in history on the backs of the underpaid and over exploited.

Do you know how you know if you're underpaid for the work you're doing?


Someone will pay you more for the work you're doing.

Also goes for me.  If someone wants to pay me more for the same or less work, then I'm underpaid.  If they don't, I'm not. Presently, no one wants to give me more money, except in places where the government will take all the extra, so I'm appropriately paid, apparently.


A job should include dignity. A job should provide stability. To paraphrase FDR, if you are not willing or able to provide wages that are able to maintain a person with decent housing, decent food and decent transportation, the jobs you provide are a disservice to the nation and we would be better off not having those jobs available to sucker people into taking them.
 
2020-10-31 10:48:30 PM  

Miss_Dorothy_Kilgallen: "Federal wildland firefighters say they're burned out after years of low pay, little job stability"

I would have thought that job stability wouldn't be a major issue recently.  It seems like we've had plenty of fires for them to be working on.  I'd say that there's been plenty of work for firefighters.

Sadly.


How much should they make?
 
2020-10-31 10:49:17 PM  

Nadie_AZ: "Golden is just one of thousands of federal wildland firefighters who work six months out of the year and whose part-time status doesn't come with the typical benefits or job security given to state and city firefighters."

The richest nation in history on the backs of the underpaid and over exploited.


Found AOC. Show me where they are forced to do this.
 
2020-11-01 12:19:59 AM  
The one item the article didn't mention is the vacant positions.  They offered $10k signing bonuses for several positions. No takers. The vacancy rate on the fed side is approximately 18-20% and 3-5% on state. Can't put the fires out if there's nobody in the seat or swinging a saw.

Burnout? That was so 2012-2018.  Morale is so far gone the ones that are still in the game are either brand new rookies without a clue, those trying to go structure dept, waiting on the first eligible day to retire, or too egotistical to admit the battle is lost without heroic budget changes and different tactics.

Sell your place near the woods and buy something with a couple mile buffer of pavement and watered lawns.
 
2020-11-01 8:30:07 PM  
Midas shocked to learn that their employees are exhausted.
 
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