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(Military.com)   The US Navy maintains a small forest of white oak trees as a supply to repair the US Constitution. Truly an amazing bit of history leaft out of the books   (military.com) divider line
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5438 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Oct 2020 at 7:40 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-31 2:29:15 AM  
The Constitution isn't broken! Oh, the ship you mean.
 
2020-10-31 3:59:57 AM  
Good find, subby
 
2020-10-31 4:51:02 AM  
When the Constitution was constructed, the white oaks used to build it were plentiful but over time, those resources dried up as American settlers pushed west and used them to build homesteads, railroads and bourbon barrels.

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2020-10-31 7:47:28 AM  
Started the morning off right by learning something.
Thanks, Subby.
 
2020-10-31 7:50:08 AM  
My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.
 
2020-10-31 7:52:41 AM  
No mention of the USS Constellation, hon?
 
2020-10-31 7:55:04 AM  

El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.


there are rules? I just thought it was seagulls fighting over a chip.
 
2020-10-31 7:57:16 AM  
Weird. There's plenty of white oak. Huh.

Anyway, White oak lumber can perform an amusing trick due to the way its vascular system works that makes it water tight.
 
2020-10-31 8:01:08 AM  
it's ironic we have more insight about taking care of 70-80 year old trees than 70-80 year old people...
 
2020-10-31 8:01:15 AM  

El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.


Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on.  :)
 
2020-10-31 8:01:18 AM  
Camp David is a forested place managed by the navy, too.
 
2020-10-31 8:04:11 AM  
It's strange to think the third largest naval base by area in the country (I think) is in the middle of southern Indiana.

/know at least 3 people that work there
//nice part of the country to live in
 
2020-10-31 8:15:33 AM  

darth sunshine: it's ironic we have more insight about taking care of 70-80 year old trees than 70-80 year old people...


The trees are worth money. Most 70-80 year old people are all used up and squeezed dry. No profit there!
 
2020-10-31 8:16:40 AM  
The US has to maintain the USS Constitution.
It is the only commissioned ship in the US Navy that sunk an enemy navy's ship in combat.

Obviously the others don't know how.
Those noobs.
 
2020-10-31 8:18:41 AM  

Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)


Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....
 
2020-10-31 8:24:56 AM  
CSB: My first ship was the Blue Ridge which is the oldest deployable ship in the USN, there'd always be some chucklefark reminding us about the Constitution being older.

/So much goddamn rust.
 
2020-10-31 8:28:32 AM  

Harlee: darth sunshine: it's ironic we have more insight about taking care of 70-80 year old trees than 70-80 year old people...

The trees are worth money. Most 70-80 year old people are all used up and squeezed dry. No profit there!


but then who will grease the stones when building our monuments?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 8:37:36 AM  

Theeng: CSB: My first ship was the Blue Ridge which is the oldest deployable ship in the USN, there'd always be some chucklefark reminding us about the Constitution being older.

/So much goddamn rust.


The mix of thoughtful looks and outrage was the measure of success; during a Naval War College seminar at Pearl Harbor, I proposed recommissioning the USS Missouri, but refitted as a command and control ship like the Blueridge, for the PACOM commander.

/It was fun being the Army guy in NWC.
 
2020-10-31 8:38:03 AM  

Harlee: Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)

Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....


Why don't you go ask questions over in the politics tab?
 
2020-10-31 8:39:47 AM  

Destructor: Weird. There's plenty of white oak. Huh.

Anyway, White oak lumber can perform an amusing trick due to the way its vascular system works that makes it water tight.


No shiat! Maybe that's why they made ships out if it.
 
2020-10-31 8:40:40 AM  

AntonChigger: It's strange to think the third largest naval base by area in the country (I think) is in the middle of southern Indiana.

/know at least 3 people that work there
//nice part of the country to live in


'Cept it is in Indiana. Which has some lovely parts and the rest ...methtown.
 
2020-10-31 8:42:43 AM  
Where did you get assigned?
It says the forest
The USS Forrest Sherman?  That's a decent ship.
No it just says the forest...
 
2020-10-31 8:43:25 AM  

Harlee: darth sunshine: it's ironic we have more insight about taking care of 70-80 year old trees than 70-80 year old people...

The trees are worth money. Most 70-80 year old people are all used up and squeezed dry. No profit there!


flexsealproducts.comView Full Size


What if you stick the old people together with Flex Paste? That would make a boat easy. Government waste!!!
 
2020-10-31 8:49:35 AM  
Any people who know better please correct me, but I thought the reason the USS Constitution was so special was that it was built with southern live oak from Georgia. The density of that wood is what earned the ship the nickname "Old Ironsides" because cannon couldn't penetrate it. Shouldn't they be repairing it with the same wood?
 
2020-10-31 8:49:35 AM  
I like their Naval Oranges.
 
2020-10-31 8:49:53 AM  
A white oak fell over on my street two days ago during Zeta and smashed down the power lines. Georgia Power is telling us that they'll fix it on Sunday. Fark white oaks.
 
2020-10-31 8:51:48 AM  

Harlee: Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)

Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....


That's the beauty of constitutional amendments, it's still there in the constitution for historical preservation so we can't pretend like we didn't do those things, but it's like strikethrough.
 
2020-10-31 8:54:19 AM  
Trump orders the whole grove to be razed in 5....4...3....2....
 
2020-10-31 8:54:43 AM  
csb/

The people on board the USS Constitution who serve as tour guides are active duty sailors who dress in 18th Century period correct uniforms.  It's a special duty assignment that looks good on a person's record.

/csb


/Former Navy
//Would have loved that assignment
///Three for Old Ironsides
 
2020-10-31 9:01:55 AM  
I know at least one of the guys in the picture from the article.  They log a large portion of the base and give the three respective counties a portion of the proceeds. It's managed responsibly if you are wondering.

I've often wondered how much of the USS Constitution has been replaced.  It's like the old joke, I have George Washington's hatchet here, well I had to replace the handle,.....and the head!

Cool deal though.  From this wood from this grove, They also make wooden platters and such as gifts for (Some?) NSA retirees and VIPs.
 
2020-10-31 9:02:29 AM  

dsmith42: Any people who know better please correct me, but I thought the reason the USS Constitution was so special was that it was built with southern live oak from Georgia. The density of that wood is what earned the ship the nickname "Old Ironsides" because cannon couldn't penetrate it. Shouldn't they be repairing it with the same wood?


I don't think it'll see cannon fire again.
 
2020-10-31 9:05:16 AM  
They should save up all the bits of the old USS Constitution and make a duplicate.
 
2020-10-31 9:11:58 AM  

Harlee: Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)

Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....


Maybe again in the future.
 
2020-10-31 9:13:54 AM  

focusthis: No mention of the USS Constellation, hon?


The original was scrapped to make way for the 1854 version.
 
2020-10-31 9:18:51 AM  

dsmith42: Any people who know better please correct me, but I thought the reason the USS Constitution was so special was that it was built with southern live oak from Georgia. The density of that wood is what earned the ship the nickname "Old Ironsides" because cannon couldn't penetrate it. Shouldn't they be repairing it with the same wood?


Based on very little research, live oak was used but the majority of the lumber of the USS constitution was white oak.

There are many reasons the USS Constitution did so well in the 1812 war.  It was a "frigate" that typically put to sea with enough guns to technically be a ship of the line is probably the biggest one.

The US Navy in the late 18th and early 19th century had no use for ships of the line, we had a handful of ships and couldn't form a line of combat to save our lives.  Instead we built heavy "frigates" that could outfight any frigate and outrun any ship of the line... it was engineered and built so well that it could also outrun most actual frigates.

We had enough good sailors to properly man our ships, remember, the main reason the war started was the Royal Navy conscripting our citizens to serve on their ships.  They were scraping the bottom of the barrel and they were used to facing the French... who had already scraped through the bottom of the barrel and didn't have any kind of naval tradition.

Ship for ship we did well... Navy to Navy... the Brits whooped our asses and landed enough troops to burn down the original White House, because of course they did, we were a bunch of backwater colonies and they were a global empire with like 600 ships.  The blockade didn't end until the treaty of Ghent.
 
2020-10-31 9:39:42 AM  

potterydove: focusthis: No mention of the USS Constellation, hon?

The original was scrapped to make way for the 1854 version.


It has seen better days.

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 9:50:56 AM  

Harlee: Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)

Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....


Of course it does.  We have an originalist SCOTUS now.  Stop being silly.
 
2020-10-31 9:51:13 AM  

Destructor: Weird. There's plenty of white oak. Huh.

Anyway, White oak lumber can perform an amusing trick due to the way its vascular system works that makes it water tight.


It's a truly amazing house-frame material. Even if the whole house burns, the charred frame can be scraped back to woodgrain within an inch or so, ready to be rebuilt around again.

TBH, tho, if you're into oak as a building material it's really England you should be interested in - Royal purses have made certain of sustainable and highly organised oak forest plantation since England made wooden warships, which is a damn sight longer than the puppy oaks in TFA have been maturing. There's companies *ahem* branching out, having bought the land from The Crown, and cutting trees to match custom building projects, with the intention being that the greener the better when it comes to it's workability.

It's something of a pipe dream of mine to basically make my dream home this way.
 
2020-10-31 9:58:08 AM  

uttertosh: Destructor: Weird. There's plenty of white oak. Huh.

Anyway, White oak lumber can perform an amusing trick due to the way its vascular system works that makes it water tight.

It's a truly amazing house-frame material. Even if the whole house burns, the charred frame can be scraped back to woodgrain within an inch or so, ready to be rebuilt around again.

TBH, tho, if you're into oak as a building material it's really England you should be interested in - Royal purses have made certain of sustainable and highly organised oak forest plantation since England made wooden warships, which is a damn sight longer than the puppy oaks in TFA have been maturing. There's companies *ahem* branching out, having bought the land from The Crown, and cutting trees to match custom building projects, with the intention being that the greener the better when it comes to it's workability.

It's something of a pipe dream of mine to basically make my dream home this way.


Just built a room addition framed w rough cut sawmill oak. Framed with a hammer and nails in freezing temperatures. The boards weigh double what typical lumber does and are extremely difficult to fasten.
Long story short. It sux
 
2020-10-31 10:12:05 AM  
Oh the ship? Cool.
 
2020-10-31 10:12:46 AM  

El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.


Thing is, it's bigger than itself. The mythology is epic and it's history unassailable (except in Court). It's revered like no other piece of paper save the Bible. In fact it is much like a second Bible to us Americans, we all look to both as the final word on all things even though very few of us have read more than a sentence or two.
 
2020-10-31 10:13:46 AM  
I never had any interest in forestry or forest management, but I that would be a cool title. U.S. Navy Forest Manager.

/Briefly dated an ecologist who worked for the Navy at King's Bay, Georgia.
 
2020-10-31 10:17:49 AM  

Harlee: Cythraul: El Rich-o: My god, you Americans with your constitution - you'd think it was handed down to Moses along with the 10 commandments and the rules for Australian rules football.

Yeah.  How dare we try to maintain consistent loyalty to the philosophy this country was founded on. :)

Does that include being allowed to own, rape, and kill slaves, women and non-property owners not be allowed to vote, and the 3/5ths rule? Just asking questions, here....


You don't know what the 3/5ths rule was, and none of that other stuff was in the Constitution.

But don't let facts get in the way of your hating America.
 
2020-10-31 10:17:49 AM  

dsmith42: Any people who know better please correct me, but I thought the reason the USS Constitution was so special was that it was built with southern live oak from Georgia. The density of that wood is what earned the ship the nickname "Old Ironsides" because cannon couldn't penetrate it. Shouldn't they be repairing it with the same wood?


^ This is the correct answer.  Live oak is the reason the ship is so strong, NOT white oak.
 
2020-10-31 10:19:50 AM  
Oh, and....
ethicsstupid.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-31 10:34:56 AM  
The original ship did have black oak, but only 3/5 plank sizes were allowed.
 
2020-10-31 10:38:52 AM  

FatinAugust: I know at least one of the guys in the picture from the article.  They log a large portion of the base and give the three respective counties a portion of the proceeds. It's managed responsibly if you are wondering.

I've often wondered how much of the USS Constitution has been replaced.  It's like the old joke, I have George Washington's hatchet here, well I had to replace the handle,.....and the head!

Cool deal though.  From this wood from this grove, They also make wooden platters and such as gifts for (Some?) NSA retirees and VIPs.


I bet they believe in AGW.

And I bet they've been told not to.
 
2020-10-31 10:43:03 AM  

Doctor Poop: uttertosh: Destructor: Weird. There's plenty of white oak. Huh.

Anyway, White oak lumber can perform an amusing trick due to the way its vascular system works that makes it water tight.

It's a truly amazing house-frame material. Even if the whole house burns, the charred frame can be scraped back to woodgrain within an inch or so, ready to be rebuilt around again.

TBH, tho, if you're into oak as a building material it's really England you should be interested in - Royal purses have made certain of sustainable and highly organised oak forest plantation since England made wooden warships, which is a damn sight longer than the puppy oaks in TFA have been maturing. There's companies *ahem* branching out, having bought the land from The Crown, and cutting trees to match custom building projects, with the intention being that the greener the better when it comes to it's workability.

It's something of a pipe dream of mine to basically make my dream home this way.

Just built a room addition framed w rough cut sawmill oak. Framed with a hammer and nails in freezing temperatures. The boards weigh double what typical lumber does and are extremely difficult to fasten.
Long story short. It sux


The companies I've been looking at go all in for actual traditional wood joinery, and build your frame for you on site.

Like I said: Pipe Dream. ;p
 
2020-10-31 10:51:45 AM  

electricjebus: dsmith42: Any people who know better please correct me, but I thought the reason the USS Constitution was so special was that it was built with southern live oak from Georgia. The density of that wood is what earned the ship the nickname "Old Ironsides" because cannon couldn't penetrate it. Shouldn't they be repairing it with the same wood?

Based on very little research, live oak was used but the majority of the lumber of the USS constitution was white oak.


Correct.  The thing that makes live oak so strong, its density (75lbs per cubic foot), also makes it difficult to cut and shape.  Especially in the era before power tools.  So it was somewhat impractical to to build an entire ship out of live oak.  Instead live oak would be reserved for components that needed to be particularly strong; like knees, hull frames, and parts of the cutwater.  White oak would be used for things like hull planks.  The U.S. Navy doesn't have a live oak plantation like it does for white oak, instead it has an extensive list of contacts with road commissions, utilities, and private landowners across the southeast.  If a live oak goes down in a storm or is going to be cut for a new road or right-of-way, there's a good chance the Navy is going to get a call about it.

The USS Constitution Museum has a couple of good articles about the wood used in the ship's original construction and restorations.
1.  The Cutting Edge - Restoring the cutwater
2.  Walking the Plank - Restoring the ship's hull planking

If you want some real nerdery, the San Francisco Maritime National Park Association has the full official report on the materials used, including all the different kinds of wood, used in the big 1992-1995 restoration.
 
2020-10-31 10:52:41 AM  
There is the Naval Live Oaks national park near Pensacola too that is land that was set aside for the oaks for shipbuilding. It's part of the Gulf Islands National Seashore Park now.
 
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