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(Abc.net.au)   Sweden's experiment with herd immunity against COVID-19 continues to deliver record-breaking figures   (abc.net.au) divider line
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7763 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 30 Oct 2020 at 6:41 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-30 6:52:12 AM  
Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-30 6:52:53 AM  
Thanks china
 
2020-10-30 6:53:18 AM  
Not ''ethically justifiable''.

Sounds about right for the people continually calling for a Herd Immunity approach to this pandemic.
 
2020-10-30 6:54:10 AM  
Herd immunity is a pipe dream based on the number of antibodies decreasing rapidly in victims of covid.  Reinfection has already happened in one case in the netherlands that I am aware of.
 
2020-10-30 6:54:16 AM  
"Better than tanking the economy."

--everyone with a job

"We need to LOCK IT DOWN"

--unemployed people, badly coping with their life choices
 
2020-10-30 6:57:12 AM  
Ahh, but given how it hits certain communities harder than others, I'm pretty sure there are those who find herd immunity ethnically justifiable.
 
2020-10-30 6:57:59 AM  
Now imagine taking the Sweden method in the good ol US of A with our for profit health care system.


Sweden, I like you, but sometimes you crazy.
 
2020-10-30 6:58:00 AM  
BORKED BORKED BORKED!
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-30 6:58:11 AM  

Vtimlin: Thanks china


*Gina
 
2020-10-30 6:58:48 AM  
Well they are Europeans so they couldn't be wrong . It's one of many things I have learned at Fark .
 
2020-10-30 6:59:20 AM  

tuxq: "Better than tanking the economy."

--everyone with a job

"We need to LOCK IT DOWN"

--unemployed people, badly coping with their life choices


Somewhere, someone is coping badly with their life choices regarding you.
 
2020-10-30 7:01:48 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image image 425x215]


Seems like comparing them with Norway and Finland would make a lot more sense.
 
2020-10-30 7:01:53 AM  
Sweden's approach might be thick-headed, but they're not aiming for herd immunity.
 
2020-10-30 7:05:16 AM  
Face eating Leopard ate my Face!

*Shocked Pikachu*
 
2020-10-30 7:06:50 AM  

tuxq: "Better than tanking the economy."

--everyone with a job

"We need to LOCK IT DOWN"

--unemployed people, badly coping with their life choices


You forgot the third group; the ones of us who planned ahead financially, expended their gardens through the first months and preserved food for the coming year. The ones that can chose to disconnect from the fray entirely. The truly free people. That group can sit on sidelines, laughing at the inane infighting between the base populous. So far, comedy gold, best season of Walking Braindead yet!

Keep on thrashing! Magadeth!
 
2020-10-30 7:07:31 AM  

swahnhennessy: Sweden's approach might be thick-headed, but they're not aiming for herd immunity.


As I understand it, they are trying to find some sort of livable, long term solution. They know it's here long term, so they are trying to come up with measures that people can cope with instead of going in and out of lockdown.

Tuesday my region asked everyone nicely to stop using public transportation, don't go shopping, and don't meet with people, please and thank you. Wednesday, Sweden got Amazon.
 
2020-10-30 7:08:27 AM  
Herd immunity isn't a strategy, it is what happens when you do nothing and the population eventually stops dying because there aren't many left.  For very virulent diseases and diseases where immunity isn't possible or does not last there might not be any left. Sweden has not been absolutely horrible because they are not all stupid and know that they should take precautions anyway despite what the government tells them.
 
2020-10-30 7:14:14 AM  

tiiger: Herd immunity is a pipe dream based on the number of antibodies decreasing rapidly in victims of covid.  Reinfection has already happened in one case in the netherlands that I am aware of.


If your T-cells have learned how to create the appropriate antibodies you don't need to keep antibodies around all the time.

The suspected reinfections are very few in number.

Like you can count them on your fingers and toes.
 
2020-10-30 7:14:22 AM  
Those insane breakfast into lunch gorging sessions should probably be shut-down.
 
2020-10-30 7:17:13 AM  
Part of me really wants to move to NZ because they have a handle on the problem. Another part of me says me and others like me would only add to their burden of keeping things "normal". *sigh*
 
2020-10-30 7:17:46 AM  

zepillin: tiiger: Herd immunity is a pipe dream based on the number of antibodies decreasing rapidly in victims of covid.  Reinfection has already happened in one case in the netherlands that I am aware of.

If your T-cells have learned how to create the appropriate antibodies you don't need to keep antibodies around all the time.

The suspected reinfections are very few in number.

Like you can count them on your fingers and toes.


This. Way too many people learned the word antibodies this year and now throw it around on a whim.
 
2020-10-30 7:21:32 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image image 425x215]


Universal health care, free college, and a guaranteed basic income are really good stopgaps against public health crises. You can even do literally nothing about a public health crisis.
 
2020-10-30 7:22:07 AM  
Hey everybody, science here. This is not how it works. It never worked in fact.

/jesus christ Sweden what the actual fark
 
2020-10-30 7:23:38 AM  

Smoking GNU: Not ''ethically justifiable''.

Sounds about right for the people continually calling for a Herd Immunity approach to this pandemic.


Herd immunity applies to vaccine use only. So, those crazy Swedes are idiots.

/They're Norwegian, Mac.
 
2020-10-30 7:25:23 AM  
I see subby failed to read the article, to the end.  A true Farker.
 
2020-10-30 7:27:52 AM  

zepillin: tiiger: Herd immunity is a pipe dream based on the number of antibodies decreasing rapidly in victims of covid.  Reinfection has already happened in one case in the netherlands that I am aware of.

If your T-cells have learned how to create the appropriate antibodies you don't need to keep antibodies around all the time.

The suspected reinfections are very few in number.

Like you can count them on your fingers and toes.


Confirmed reinfections, not suspected.
These were where a person tests positive, gets confirmed as a positive, goes through the period with different levels of symptoms, gets better, gets checked and tests negative, then again tested to confirm negative result....then got it again with a positive.
These are not suspected reinfections.
They wouldn't have made the news around the world if they were just suspected.
And you are right, the ones that are 100% confirmed reinfections, as far as we know, are few.
 
2020-10-30 7:29:20 AM  
That assumes they weren't false negative just saying
 
2020-10-30 7:29:36 AM  

Nimbull: Part of me really wants to move to NZ because they have a handle on the problem. Another part of me says me and others like me would only add to their burden of keeping things "normal". *sigh*


I think they've got a larger set of their own problems to deal with than most people realize.  One of their biggest industries was international tourism.  That has been crushed and likely isn't coming back for many years.  Sustained decreased demand for their currency will make it harder to keep its value, so anything they import will become more expensive, anything they export will fetch less, and that at the same time unemployment has a sustained increase.  If they start printing money for stimulus it will further devalue their currency.

There's a lot of pitfalls they are facing, and I don't think they are out of the woods.  It's an awesome place, but COVID isn't going to turn it into an island paradise isolated from the world's woes.
 
2020-10-30 7:30:14 AM  
Considering the number of cases false negative seems likely
 
2020-10-30 7:30:15 AM  
OK, somebody heard some words (herd immunity) they do not know and it sounded all good and sciency and fit their agenda. Wrong words.
memeguy.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-30 7:30:31 AM  

casual disregard: Hey everybody, science here. This is not how it works. It never worked in fact.

/jesus christ Sweden what the actual fark


I don't think Sweden went all out and started having measles COVID parties to get everyone infected.
They just assumed if people kept socially distancing, wearing masks and using disinfectants/sanitizers things will be ok.
 
2020-10-30 7:30:46 AM  
We're trying really hard to not admit that Death is paying more than Life on the actuary's scale right now.

How low can you go?

/cheap, getting cheaper
 
2020-10-30 7:33:09 AM  

swahnhennessy: Sweden's approach might be thick-headed, but they're not aiming for herd immunity.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size


https://covidfactcheck.se/

Moooooove along because you're wrong
 
2020-10-30 7:33:18 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image 425x215]


"Herd immunity" isn't just not a winning strategy, it's NOT A STRATEGY absent a vaccine. Talking about "herd immunity" in the absence of a vaccine makes no farking sense. You would need to reach an infection rate of 70-ish %. That's not just a lot of dead people, but a lot of permanently crippled people, given what this virus does.

And we don't even know how long immunity lasts, which makes pursuing 'herd immunity' in this fashion even more ridiculous.

You know who's doing a lot better? Finland, which is literally farking next door to them.

KarmicDisaster: Herd immunity isn't a strategy, it is what happens when you do nothing and the population eventually stops dying because there aren't many left.  For very virulent diseases and diseases where immunity isn't possible or does not last there might not be any left. Sweden has not been absolutely horrible because they are not all stupid and know that they should take precautions anyway despite what the government tells them.


I mean, Herd Immunity is a strategy---once you have a vaccine. Once you have a vaccine, discussing herd immunity makes sense, because it's actually possible without having to get to a ridiculously high infection rate.

zepillin: tiiger: Herd immunity is a pipe dream based on the number of antibodies decreasing rapidly in victims of covid.  Reinfection has already happened in one case in the netherlands that I am aware of.

If your T-cells have learned how to create the appropriate antibodies you don't need to keep antibodies around all the time.

The suspected reinfections are very few in number.

Like you can count them on your fingers and toes.


Correct, but we also don't know how long-lasting that immunity is. Using antibodies to say "ZOMG IT RESISTANCE GOES AWAY" is indeed goofy. At the same time, assuming getting infection confers life-long immunity is also. Kind of stupid, given we don't have any evidence of that, either.
 
2020-10-30 7:33:58 AM  

outtatowner: tuxq: "Better than tanking the economy."

--everyone with a job

"We need to LOCK IT DOWN"

--unemployed people, badly coping with their life choices

You forgot the third group; the ones of us who planned ahead financially, expended their gardens through the first months and preserved food for the coming year. The ones that can chose to disconnect from the fray entirely. The truly free people. That group can sit on sidelines, laughing at the inane infighting between the base populous. So far, comedy gold, best season of Walking Braindead yet!

Keep on thrashing! Magadeth!


They have food and money, everybody!  Let's get 'em!
 
2020-10-30 7:34:09 AM  

RottenEggs: Well they are Europeans so they couldn't be wrong . It's one of many things I have learned at Fark .


As a European, I can confirm this.
 
2020-10-30 7:34:32 AM  
"Herd immunity" is a cheat code in the game Plague, Inc.  If there's a country that's not getting infected quickly enough, just use the cheat code to have it move their main method of dealing with your plague to be herd immunity.  You win very quickly after that.
 
2020-10-30 7:38:58 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Smoking GNU: Not ''ethically justifiable''.

Sounds about right for the people continually calling for a Herd Immunity approach to this pandemic.

Herd immunity applies to vaccine use only. So, those crazy Swedes are idiots.

/They're Norwegian, Mac.


Exactly, but you-know-what part of the political sphere have siezed on the term as a way of masking what they really mean, which is basically "everyone should get infected asap so we can get back to the wzy things were because change scares us while millions suffering and dying gives us a semi".
 
2020-10-30 7:40:13 AM  
It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but on a global scale, and the boatload of Humanity you're rescuing is all five year old children picking their nose and eating it.

/We could be heroes
 
2020-10-30 7:42:12 AM  

tuxq: "Better than tanking the economy."

--everyone with a job

"We need to LOCK IT DOWN"

--unemployed people, badly coping with their life choices


Not everyone with a job is a sociopath. Also, not everyone is as shortsighted as a conservative, seeing as we have multiple examples of how a short term shut down doesn't tank the economy. You k ow what tanks an economy? Listening to MAGAt trash and prolonging the the infection, leading to longer term economic disruptions. Though we do have to pity MAGAts as they are so f*cking stupid that they "think" conservative policies are economically good.
 
2020-10-30 7:44:02 AM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image 425x215]


Right out of the gate, I had read several pieces by doctors warning not to judge any one country's COVID strategy in the short term.  That over time, infectious curves for most countries would eventually conform to a standard, regardless of mitigation strategies.
 
2020-10-30 7:44:13 AM  

freakdiablo: Vtimlin: Thanks china

*Gina


Long way to Sweden, you could say Far Gina
 
2020-10-30 7:46:04 AM  

Felgraf: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image 425x215]

"Herd immunity" isn't just not a winning strategy, it's NOT A STRATEGY absent a vaccine. Talking about "herd immunity" in the absence of a vaccine makes no farking sense. You would need to reach an infection rate of 70-ish %. That's not just a lot of dead people, but a lot of permanently crippled people, given what this virus does.

And we don't even know how long immunity lasts, which makes pursuing 'herd immunity' in this fashion even more ridiculous.

You know who's doing a lot better? Finland, which is literally farking next door to them.

KarmicDisaster: Herd immunity isn't a strategy, it is what happens when you do nothing and the population eventually stops dying because there aren't many left.  For very virulent diseases and diseases where immunity isn't possible or does not last there might not be any left. Sweden has not been absolutely horrible because they are not all stupid and know that they should take precautions anyway despite what the government tells them.

I mean, Herd Immunity is a strategy---once you have a vaccine. Once you have a vaccine, discussing herd immunity makes sense, because it's actually possible without having to get to a ridiculously high infection rate.



Well, yeah, that is ideal way that it would work with a vaccine that works. The Trumpian way is to let and encourage disease spread and then hope that there are enough immune survivors of the infection and to hell with the deaths. We don't really know how long immunity will last, it looks semi-promising, but it might be like the flu or other Coronaviruses where immunity only lasts for months; COVID-19 was pretty rare just a year ago so we don't have enough experience with it. Maybe we will have to get an annual covid shot.
 
2020-10-30 7:46:20 AM  

thealgorerhythm: SanityIsAFullTimeJob: Not that herd immunity is a winning strategy, and Sweden does have some issues, but compared to other parts of Europe, well, it could be worse.

[Fark user image image 425x215]

Universal health care, free college, and a guaranteed basic income are really good stopgaps against public health crises. You can even do literally nothing about a public health crisis.


Sweden has a guaranteed basic income?
 
2020-10-30 7:50:23 AM  

Resident Muslim: casual disregard: Hey everybody, science here. This is not how it works. It never worked in fact.

/jesus christ Sweden what the actual fark

I don't think Sweden went all out and started having measles COVID parties to get everyone infected.
They just assumed if people kept socially distancing, wearing masks and using disinfectants/sanitizers things will be ok.


Bad assumption. Very much not ok.
 
2020-10-30 7:51:40 AM  
The virus has already mutated so herd immunity may not even work.
 
2020-10-30 7:51:52 AM  

Sean VasDeferens: I see subby failed to read the article, to the end.  A true Farker.


Yes but that last bit needed to say 'not as bad as Britain where the Johnson government basically treated Corona as a PR problem to be stepped around instead a of a major health problem'.
 
2020-10-30 7:52:40 AM  
I still see people post Sweden as a success. I ask them by what metric. They then get mad and upset and say I need to see the "big picture". I ask them what factors are in this "big picture" I am missing. They get mad again.

Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
 
2020-10-30 7:53:41 AM  

Resident Muslim: casual disregard: Hey everybody, science here. This is not how it works. It never worked in fact.

/jesus christ Sweden what the actual fark

I don't think Sweden went all out and started having measles COVID parties to get everyone infected.
They just assumed if people kept socially distancing, wearing masks and using disinfectants/sanitizers things will be ok.


People aren't encouraged to wear masks in Sweden. I don't get it. I see only a handful of people wearing masks.
 
2020-10-30 7:54:32 AM  

Corvus: I still see people post Sweden as a success. I ask them by what metric. They then get mad and upset and say I need to see the "big picture". I ask them what factors are in this "big picture" I am missing. They get mad again.

Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.


I prefer imperial units of measure.
 
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