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(The Week)   Republicans are gearing up to make an election crisis   (theweek.com) divider line
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4998 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Oct 2020 at 8:27 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-28 9:04:27 PM  
Those of you talking about getting guns and 'Civil War 2' be aware, guns don't win resistance efforts by themselves, and a lot more goes into forming an underground resistance than dying in the streets.
 
2020-10-28 9:04:43 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Down ticket candidates will not stand for a halt to counting ballots if their races are close.

And their power to do something about it is...?And if Trump is ahead in the counted ballots, local Republicans will be ahead, too.And guess who has a majority in the legislatures of North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida.
 
2020-10-28 9:04:47 PM  

contrapunctus: quatchi:

TFA is right, I think, It may take millions in the streets to stop the madness.

Hopefully not but still...

"There will be blood." - Malcolm Nance on what the post election atmosphere in America is going to be like.

Any attempts to undermine the election results are going to awaken America's putrid taste for violence.

Imagine the violence of the Minneapolis riots with a crowd this size:
[i.guim.co.uk image 300x180]

The GOP will eventually relent once they realize that the cost of continuing to support a low-rent loser like Trump in the face of unprecedented social unrest will not be worth it.


There will be blood.
Not even an if question.
A question of how much.
On a scale from a few bloody riots put down relatively quickly to a new civil war with a mass body count over years.
I am guessing the former.
Yes, cos optimist.
Pollyanna of the PolTab, they calls me.
 
2020-10-28 9:07:02 PM  

suebhoney: Oh and mom also said if biden doesn't win she will NEVER pay federal taxes again. She said she'll open an escrow account and dump it all there and fight against ever paying it. My mom hasn't done an illegal thing in her life. Just espousing that statement is not in tune with my mom. For her to even say it is absolutely incredible just on its face.


You and your mom sound like pretty swell folk, but the IRS is pretty nonpartisan and loves auditing blue collar accounts these days. Render unto Caesar, and all that...
 
2020-10-28 9:07:20 PM  

GoldSpider: Author was touching himself and crying while typing that, 100%.


I'm touching myself right now. I mean it's, who isn't?

/perhaps I've said too much
 
2020-10-28 9:08:42 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: GoldSpider: Author was touching himself and crying while typing that, 100%.

I'm touching myself right now. I mean it's, who isn't?

/perhaps I've said too much


No, go on...
 
2020-10-28 9:09:25 PM  
That leads to the final part of the plan: Republicans will try to stop the count as soon as possible on Election Day, probably by midnight that night.


I realize the constitution and history behind it is a running joke to the GOP, something to be trotted out and contorted to justify their shiat, but seeing them pushing this "we must know by midnight" is really something else.

When the Constitution was written they didn't have the internet. They didn't have telephones. They didn't have telegrams. They didn't have cars or trains. They had couriers on horses, and for a lot of the country they didn't even have damn roads.

Each state had to wait until votes came in from all corners before they had a final count. This could take a week or more, if they were really rushing and the county was real organized about only having one polling station.

Then they had to get together, choose their Electors, vote on who the state wanted to have be POTUS and then send a courier to Congress with the results, again a journey that could take weeks.

This is why the Electoral College doesn't vote until over a month after the election.

The fact they are even pretending there's any sort of logical, constitutional or historic justification for needing to stop the count a few hours, or even a few days, after Election Day is beyond insane.
 
2020-10-28 9:12:57 PM  

HerptheDerp: Those of you talking about getting guns and 'Civil War 2' be aware, guns don't win resistance efforts by themselves, and a lot more goes into forming an underground resistance than dying in the streets.


Allowing for general incompetancy and immense hubris on the part of right wing groups, it wouldn't take much to form a critical mass of informed and motivated individuals the likes of which militia types can only have wet dreams about. If they start firing they will be on the receiving end of far more than they estimate.

The thing is, you are correct. Guns aren't the be-all-end-all. Many leftists don't own them, and fewer are proficient. That still won't stop the onslaught of protest. What's a typical militia stockpile? 50,000 rounds of 5.56? A protest turning violent will leave lightposts from here clear to the other side of MLK Jr. Boulevard tilted over with the bodies strung up on them. 1 bullet to a dozen protesters isn't good odds.

And that's before the military gets involved...
 
2020-10-28 9:14:43 PM  

Stibium: suebhoney: Oh and mom also said if biden doesn't win she will NEVER pay federal taxes again. She said she'll open an escrow account and dump it all there and fight against ever paying it. My mom hasn't done an illegal thing in her life. Just espousing that statement is not in tune with my mom. For her to even say it is absolutely incredible just on its face.

You and your mom sound like pretty swell folk, but the IRS is pretty nonpartisan and loves auditing blue collar accounts these days. Render unto Caesar, and all that...


Escrow account. Fight it. I didn't say she'd win, I just repeated what she said.
 
2020-10-28 9:15:01 PM  

Target Builder: That leads to the final part of the plan: Republicans will try to stop the count as soon as possible on Election Day, probably by midnight that night.


I realize the constitution and history behind it is a running joke to the GOP, something to be trotted out and contorted to justify their shiat, but seeing them pushing this "we must know by midnight" is really something else.

When the Constitution was written they didn't have the internet. They didn't have telephones. They didn't have telegrams. They didn't have cars or trains. They had couriers on horses, and for a lot of the country they didn't even have damn roads.

Each state had to wait until votes came in from all corners before they had a final count. This could take a week or more, if they were really rushing and the county was real organized about only having one polling station.

Then they had to get together, choose their Electors, vote on who the state wanted to have be POTUS and then send a courier to Congress with the results, again a journey that could take weeks.

This is why the Electoral College doesn't vote until over a month after the election.

The fact they are even pretending there's any sort of logical, constitutional or historic justification for needing to stop the count a few hours, or even a few days, after Election Day is beyond insane.


Kavanaugh: "And what is your legal argument in favor of arbitrarily stopping the count?"

GOP Rep: "BLAAAARRRGHH!"

Thomas: "Hhhm..."
 
2020-10-28 9:15:05 PM  

Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.


I have little to lose. I'll be taking my own path in that instance.
 
2020-10-28 9:15:45 PM  

HerptheDerp: Those of you talking about getting guns and 'Civil War 2' be aware, guns don't win resistance efforts by themselves, and a lot more goes into forming an underground resistance than dying in the streets.


You may be underestimating just how much the average American loves violence on a visceral level.

Rest assured, for all of their barking, the right-wing in this country was absolutely scared shiatless during the George Floyd riots.  They got a front row seat to just how powerful a mass mobilization of people in America can be.

For years, I had to drive by the Confederate statues in downtown Raleigh.  All the attempts to remove them via civil means resulted in virtually no change.

One night of relentless rioting got them removed, though.

And they're never coming back.

If there's one thing I have absolute faith in, it's the American bloodlust.  It can, and will, be unleashed in the face of any attempts by the GOP to ratfark this election.  And it will NOT stop until things are made right.

Minneapolis was their warning shot.
 
2020-10-28 9:16:16 PM  

WeedBong420: At this point, I see it as doubtful for really one reason.

It'd be bad for business.

That's it really.


I agree.  If this really is a "blue wave" I just can't see them being that brazen.  It would change everything and plunge this country into crisis.   Markets don't like that.
 
2020-10-28 9:20:32 PM  

Wing Kong Exchange Day Trader: WeedBong420: At this point, I see it as doubtful for really one reason.

It'd be bad for business.

That's it really.

I agree.  If this really is a "blue wave" I just can't see them being that brazen.  It would change everything and plunge this country into crisis.   Markets don't like that.


Rich German industrialists thought they could control hitler too and everything got fracked into a cocked hat
 
2020-10-28 9:20:33 PM  

whosits_112: Professor_Doctor: That leads to the final part of the plan: Republicans will try to stop the count as soon as possible on Election Day, probably by midnight that night.

It is this part here and what follows that basically amounts to "and then Republicans perform literal magic."

I agree that the Republicans are definitely trying to suppress the votes, but I think the effort to stop early vote counting amounts more to just being the petty dicks that they are rather than part of an elaborate scheme. If they wanted the law changed to say that the counting has to stop at midnight, they should have submitted that as a bill and had the governor sign it. Most of their legal challenges now are appealing judges that have attempted to ease the issues that COVID has caused which they say circumvent their authority. Not that they wouldn't be hypocritical enough to try, but it puts them in a weird legal position to say that the state laws are sacrosanct and also that the state laws need to be arbitrarily ignored.

The thing is, how many elections had all states complete all voting at midnight? I'm sure few or none.


Next to zero. Calling an election is a media thing.
 
2020-10-28 9:21:44 PM  

suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.


If you have no firearm training, don't buy a rifle or handgun. Buy a shotgun.
 
2020-10-28 9:22:02 PM  
Anyone fanning the flames of any kind of "civil war" does not know what they are talking about.
Or they do know what they're talking about and being decidedly evil.

https://www.wunc.org/post/after-cover​i​ng-civil-war-overseas-journalist-exami​nes-us-militia-movement
 
2020-10-28 9:22:03 PM  
Right wingers have been getting amped up to kill Americans for daring to disagree with them for decades.  Every year the talk from the gop and it's media proxies gets worse and worse.  There are people who really believe the lies pumped out by fox and friends.  Nearly 30 years ago, these nuts blew up and building with a freaking daycare in it.  If trump loses, who knows what they will do.  Democracies fall to fascism.  It happens.  It can happen here.  Probably more easily than a lot of places.  Our constitution gives way too much power to the president and there are little checks and balances that truly matter.  Particularly with a complicit senate.  The country could well collapse before the end of November.  I don't think that's what the Republican Party wants, but they have riled up their followers to the point where violence seems like a reasonable response.
 
2020-10-28 9:24:32 PM  

contrapunctus: HerptheDerp: Those of you talking about getting guns and 'Civil War 2' be aware, guns don't win resistance efforts by themselves, and a lot more goes into forming an underground resistance than dying in the streets.

You may be underestimating just how much the average American loves violence on a visceral level.

Rest assured, for all of their barking, the right-wing in this country was absolutely scared shiatless during the George Floyd riots.  They got a front row seat to just how powerful a mass mobilization of people in America can be.

For years, I had to drive by the Confederate statues in downtown Raleigh.  All the attempts to remove them via civil means resulted in virtually no change.

One night of relentless rioting got them removed, though.

And they're never coming back.

If there's one thing I have absolute faith in, it's the American bloodlust.  It can, and will, be unleashed in the face of any attempts by the GOP to ratfark this election.  And it will NOT stop until things are made right.

Minneapolis was their warning shot.


Yep. There are many liberals like myself that were in the military and are fluent in violence.
 
2020-10-28 9:26:34 PM  
You know, GOD FORBID the Republicans pull their shiat together enough to allow Biden as a punching bag for four years while the conservative Supreme Court keeps dismantling the country. TFA doesn't bother about what's going to happen if they decide to be subtle. These Revolutionary Democrats will turn around and demand the status quo like that if Biden gets his win.

If I survive this exposure to COVID (which I found out about today and which has handily neutered my ability to get out there and protest right after the goddamn election), I see myself fighting Republicans AND my fellow Democrats who don't want Biden to lose in 2024. Whaaat? You can't protest the removal of the ACA on BIDEN'S watch! He can't stop them from overturning Roe v. Wade!! You whiny progressive! What do you want him to dooo??
 
2020-10-28 9:28:01 PM  

Stibium: Allowing for general incompetancy and immense hubris on the part of right wing groups, it wouldn't take much to form a critical mass of informed and motivated individuals the likes of which militia types can only have wet dreams about. If they start firing they will be on the receiving end of far more than they estimate.


The right wing has an enormous organizational advantage over everyone else here.

They have spent ~20 years building up networks of like minded "militia" groups, these folks are in contact with each other, they share lines of communication through both online platforms and organized AM radio stations that feed them their daily hysteria. Should it come to an actual insurrection they have a huge head start on deploying armed gangs. They also have the sympathy of the police, whose membership overlaps with their own, so they can act with a level of impunity without risking falling foul of the police (or even have police assistance) while anyone on the Left isn't going to have that luxury.

The police are another major factor here. In towns and cities where they have been heavily infiltrated by the far right the police are in a position where they can openly crack down on political opponents while shielded from legal consequences - we've seen previews of this all over the country this summer. Note: when the Nazis took over Germany they had to go to considerable effort to purge the military of leadership and replace them with Nazis. They just gave the police new uniforms. This is a pattern that repeats over and over through history.

This is amplified if the RW has control over the WH at the same time - this gives them a nation wide line of communication to coordinate and direct activities, while also being placed to disrupt communication of opponents, take out opposition leaders and to send in heavily armed and trained federal support if needed.

If it comes down to that sort of conflict... you're being wildly optimistic if you think the far right is going to be promptly outflanked.
 
2020-10-28 9:31:30 PM  

lolmao500: austerity101: jso2897: lolmao500: And they wont be put against the wall for it because attempted murder just like attempted fascism aint a real crime.

Do they give out Nobel prizes for attempted chemistry?

Attempted murder is a crime. So is conspiracy. You don't have to successfully pull something off to be a criminal.

Yeah but I've never seen politicians being arrested for conspiracy to overthrow democracy. The entire GOP, their lawyers, fox news and OANN should be put under arrest for conspiracy to install a fascist state and all hanged by the neck.


Sure. It wasn't your comment I was responding to, though.
 
2020-10-28 9:34:08 PM  

lolmao500: austerity101: jso2897: lolmao500: And they wont be put against the wall for it because attempted murder just like attempted fascism aint a real crime.

Do they give out Nobel prizes for attempted chemistry?

Attempted murder is a crime. So is conspiracy. You don't have to successfully pull something off to be a criminal.

Yeah but I've never seen politicians being arrested for conspiracy to overthrow democracy. The entire GOP, their lawyers, fox news and OANN should be put under arrest for conspiracy to install a fascist state and all hanged by the neck.


Do you ever take a day off from your erotic political purge fantasies?
 
2020-10-28 9:34:30 PM  

suebhoney: Stibium: suebhoney: Oh and mom also said if biden doesn't win she will NEVER pay federal taxes again. She said she'll open an escrow account and dump it all there and fight against ever paying it. My mom hasn't done an illegal thing in her life. Just espousing that statement is not in tune with my mom. For her to even say it is absolutely incredible just on its face.

You and your mom sound like pretty swell folk, but the IRS is pretty nonpartisan and loves auditing blue collar accounts these days. Render unto Caesar, and all that...

Escrow account. Fight it. I didn't say she'd win, I just repeated what she said.


There's always traditional IRA's, no need for a fight there. :)
 
2020-10-28 9:43:42 PM  

Target Builder: Stibium: Allowing for general incompetancy and immense hubris on the part of right wing groups, it wouldn't take much to form a critical mass of informed and motivated individuals the likes of which militia types can only have wet dreams about. If they start firing they will be on the receiving end of far more than they estimate.

The right wing has an enormous organizational advantage over everyone else here.

They have spent ~20 years building up networks of like minded "militia" groups, these folks are in contact with each other, they share lines of communication through both online platforms and organized AM radio stations that feed them their daily hysteria. Should it come to an actual insurrection they have a huge head start on deploying armed gangs. They also have the sympathy of the police, whose membership overlaps with their own, so they can act with a level of impunity without risking falling foul of the police (or even have police assistance) while anyone on the Left isn't going to have that luxury.

The police are another major factor here. In towns and cities where they have been heavily infiltrated by the far right the police are in a position where they can openly crack down on political opponents while shielded from legal consequences - we've seen previews of this all over the country this summer. Note: when the Nazis took over Germany they had to go to considerable effort to purge the military of leadership and replace them with Nazis. They just gave the police new uniforms. This is a pattern that repeats over and over through history.

This is amplified if the RW has control over the WH at the same time - this gives them a nation wide line of communication to coordinate and direct activities, while also being placed to disrupt communication of opponents, take out opposition leaders and to send in heavily armed and trained federal support if needed.

If it comes down to that sort of conflict... you're being wildly optimistic if you think the far ri ...


I give you that the right wing already has a foothold in traditional media space to get out the message. The thing is, how many of them are savvy enough for Signal and other fully encrypted apps? Do you not suspect the FBI to be listening?

The police can be safely discounted I believe. They are even more fearful of nonviolent protests, so I don't see them as much of a true threat. They aren't trained to handle the sort of shiatstorm brewing over the horizon, and they sure as shooting won't hold back an angry mob. Major metro areas with terror response units may be able to quell most of of the really bad stuff, but the vast majority of even well-armed police forces across the nation don't have that without FBI hand-holding. They won't stand a chance.
The right wing is as much of a paper tiger as the Soviet Union. Punch through the first line and there is nothing left. They arent used to being on the defensive, other than cowardly hiding in the shadows in wake of doxxing and public scrutiny. The left is much smarter and far more flexible than they are given credit for.
 
2020-10-28 9:47:25 PM  

Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.


Placards won't help. I estimate it would take about 400 people rushing the court quickly to overwhelm fast enough to get to the judges if they are actively on the bench. You can build the guillotine after all of them are in custody.
 
2020-10-28 9:47:49 PM  

suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.


What kind of rifle?
Can't go wrong with a 12 gauge shotgun.  18.5in barrel, 6 round magazine.  Don't even need outstanding marksmanship to be absolutely deadly out to 50m.
Slap on the glow sights for low visibility. A 25td box of buckshot & you're ready for almost anything.
 
2020-10-28 9:50:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-28 9:57:22 PM  

baron von doodle: suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.

If you have no firearm training, don't buy a rifle or handgun. Buy a shotgun.


I was brought up shooting a .22 rifle and a 30.06 (I believe that's the right way to express it) shotgun. I remember my dad and grandfather called it a thirty odd 6.

But thanks.
 
2020-10-28 9:59:07 PM  
They're willing to burn the farking whole goddamned country to the ground...

...for Trump.

For Donald farking Trump.

It all could end simply to keep that thin-skinned, selfish, incurious ignoramus propped up. THAT is how stupid America is.

Holy shiat.
 
2020-10-28 10:00:25 PM  

Rav Tokomi: Gearing up? They've been working hard on this for the last 34 months, and were laying groundwork for decades prior.


And unfortunately they've been enabled by people like Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein who still think they're playing by rules that have long since been abdicated by the Republicans
 
2020-10-28 10:02:26 PM  

suebhoney: baron von doodle: suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.

If you have no firearm training, don't buy a rifle or handgun. Buy a shotgun.

I was brought up shooting a .22 rifle and a 30.06 (I believe that's the right way to express it) shotgun. I remember my dad and grandfather called it a thirty odd 6.

But thanks.


Apologies.
 
2020-10-28 10:02:55 PM  

J_Kushner: What kind of rifle?
Can't go wrong with a 12 gauge shotgun.  18.5in barrel, 6 round magazine.  Don't even need outstanding marksmanship to be absolutely deadly out to 50m.
Slap on the glow sights for low visibility. A 25td box of buckshot & you're ready for almost anything.


I'm partial to Winchester, personally. Butter-smooth and an even simpler action than Remington/Mossberg. Between those two I'd suggest Mossberg, due to where the action release lever is located as well as the safety. Hi-Standard would be a good middle ground if you come across a good used one. Extremely smooth action, breech locks into the steel receiver, Mossberg action, and a handy crossbolt safety. Never had an Ithaca or a 1897 Winchester but I'd love to play with them.
 
2020-10-28 10:06:14 PM  
30.06 can be loaded with limited scatter shot (shotgun style) rounds, but is usually used as a rifle.
 
2020-10-28 10:06:55 PM  

suebhoney: baron von doodle: suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.

If you have no firearm training, don't buy a rifle or handgun. Buy a shotgun.

I was brought up shooting a .22 rifle and a 30.06 (I believe that's the right way to express it) shotgun. I remember my dad and grandfather called it a thirty odd 6.

But thanks.


The 30-06 you used sounds like a pump action rifle, the way you describe it. You at least seem to have a good background in firearms and presumably safety. If you can handle a .30 hunting rifle, an AR-15 will be pretty trivial for you.

/Eyeing a .308 AR-10 build, myself
//Probably will be the last "scary gun" I get for a while.
///Only other thing on the radar is one of the new Remington 51's and Winchester Wildcat semi-auto
//Already got the TOZ Wildcat. Best .22 rifle I have ever owned by far, it's practically a laser beam
 
2020-10-28 10:09:49 PM  

jso2897: lolmao500: And they wont be put against the wall for it because attempted murder just like attempted fascism aint a real crime.

Do they give out Nobel prizes for attempted chemistry?


I was about to make a joke riffing on "Die Bart, Die," but I don't want to get the secret service showing up at my house.
 
2020-10-28 10:18:46 PM  

Stibium: J_Kushner: What kind of rifle?
Can't go wrong with a 12 gauge shotgun.  18.5in barrel, 6 round magazine.  Don't even need outstanding marksmanship to be absolutely deadly out to 50m.
Slap on the glow sights for low visibility. A 25td box of buckshot & you're ready for almost anything.

I'm partial to Winchester, personally. Butter-smooth and an even simpler action than Remington/Mossberg. Between those two I'd suggest Mossberg, due to where the action release lever is located as well as the safety. Hi-Standard would be a good middle ground if you come across a good used one. Extremely smooth action, breech locks into the steel receiver, Mossberg action, and a handy crossbolt safety. Never had an Ithaca or a 1897 Winchester but I'd love to play with them.


Unless you are picking knits, any big name shotgun will suffice. Yes, in competition, different things matter. For defense/ offense, a big name shotgun is a big name shotgun. You basically have to look at price (price multiplier: pump action vs. semi-auto), weight, magazine capacity, and barrel length (18" is generally the shortest that complies with most state laws).

In my opinion, you buy a pump action 12 gauge from one of the following manufacturers: Remington, Browning, Mossberg, or Winchester.
 
2020-10-28 10:23:06 PM  
How many times do I have to say it

THE REPUBLICANS ARE NEVER GIVING UP POWER AGAIN!


They have made that abundantly clear through their actions. These people have been working towards this very moment for the last several decades. Do you really think they will leave this up to chance? They were only one state house away from calling for a constitutional convention. They are pining for their fascist authoritarian state, and if democrats don't vote in large enough numbers, then democracy might be permanently finished.

VOTE.
 
2020-10-28 10:25:44 PM  

Stibium: //Already got the TOZ Wildcat. Best .22 rifle I have ever owned by far, it's practically a laser beam


What kind of price would i be looking at for this one?
 
2020-10-28 10:29:43 PM  

baron von doodle: Stibium: J_Kushner: What kind of rifle?
Can't go wrong with a 12 gauge shotgun.  18.5in barrel, 6 round magazine.  Don't even need outstanding marksmanship to be absolutely deadly out to 50m.
Slap on the glow sights for low visibility. A 25td box of buckshot & you're ready for almost anything.

I'm partial to Winchester, personally. Butter-smooth and an even simpler action than Remington/Mossberg. Between those two I'd suggest Mossberg, due to where the action release lever is located as well as the safety. Hi-Standard would be a good middle ground if you come across a good used one. Extremely smooth action, breech locks into the steel receiver, Mossberg action, and a handy crossbolt safety. Never had an Ithaca or a 1897 Winchester but I'd love to play with them.

Unless you are picking knits, any big name shotgun will suffice. Yes, in competition, different things matter. For defense/ offense, a big name shotgun is a big name shotgun. You basically have to look at price (price multiplier: pump action vs. semi-auto), weight, magazine capacity, and barrel length (18" is generally the shortest that complies with most state laws).

In my opinion, you buy a pump action 12 gauge from one of the following manufacturers: Remington, Browning, Mossberg, or Winchester.


More or less, but ergonomics do factor in. Also shorty "not-considered-by-ATF-to-be-a-shotgun​" shotguns are pretty nifty and come in at good price points. As long as you never attach a stock, by the 1934 NFA it cannot be classified as a shotgun and is not subject to the 18" barrel law, but only the 26" overall length. I'd hazard to get one of those in 20 gauge though.

Regardless, loadout is also a good thing to discuss. There are those that go full 00 buck, some stagger buck and slug. For me it's #4,#00,#4,1 oz slug, #00, with a #4 in the chamber. My philosophy is that at range it's better to hit with a few .30 shot than maybe one .38 shot. 00 gets you 9 in a typical 2-3/4" shell, but 27 #4's.

For a light conflict, the concept of the assault rifle comes up, in that it's better to wound and have another person carry him off than to kill outright and still have that extra person fighting. For home defense it's a no brainer to use #4, in my opinion. Smaller, lighter projectiles have better stopping power efficiency; and it's still better to get three times more holes in an intruder than 9 slightly larger holes if you ask me.
 
2020-10-28 10:35:08 PM  

suebhoney: Stibium: //Already got the TOZ Wildcat. Best .22 rifle I have ever owned by far, it's practically a laser beam

What kind of price would i be looking at for this one?


That one ran me a little less than $250, circa 2008-ish.  It's the standard model without the bull barrel and with typical rimfire rails on the receiver. The bull barrel ran about $300 at the time, and I would have gotten it but that was literally the last one in stock and IIRC production had already ended.

It's an excellent gun, though. More than half my arsenal is antique .22's and it is far an away the best, even over my math Mossberg from the 60's. The bolt action Wildcat has a stainless-coated bore, a match chamber, and a recessed crown. The action is pretty smooth, smooth enough for a 1 shot per second at 100 yards with a 6" plinking gong and iron sights. When I had a 9x scope I could shoot off all of your fingers with on 5-round magazine.

It's one hell of a rifle, made by the same company the Soviets used to dominate Olympic target shooting in the 80's. It's not an Anschutz, but it's close.
 
2020-10-28 10:40:39 PM  
Go ahead and piss off the black people. They'll have some riots, some white people will join in, few injuries couple months...

But now you're pissing off the white people. Those mother fakirs are CRAZY. You will have a goddam civil war when the white people crazy starts. They are the original berserkers and have a chemical penchant for violence from living in countries for thousands of years where the sun only came out for 20 minutes in April every other year.
The killing didn't stop at 650,000 last time those idiots went at it. It was another 50 years before they could all get in the same boat long enough to go across an ocean and kill everybody over there.
Uh Uh...
You assholes better figure something out pretty quick because you ain't putting that egg back together again!
 
2020-10-28 10:42:35 PM  
The idea that counting votes will stop at midnight is laughable.
Chill out.
 
2020-10-28 10:48:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-28 10:59:30 PM  

baron von doodle: suebhoney: AcneVulgaris: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

wilshire: Kubo: Go for it.

If this election isn't close and the right legislatively cheats its way to "victory," I'll see you on the Supreme Court steps, placard in hand, along with what I'm guessing will be close to millions of my friends.

Then what?

Tear gas and beatings for all!

I've never owned a gun in my life. Not a half hour ago I was looking at rifles.

My mom, who only ever tries to see the good in anything, told me today she expects civil war 2 to break out if the GOP is allowed to steal the election, again, for a 3rd time. 2000, 2016 & 2020.

Never ever ever has my mom come anywhere near expressing this sort of an opinion. Both her and I have been gifted in seeing the way things are going to break. My 6th sense has kept me out of some major f*cking trouble my whole life, and it's been going off like fire alarm bells since the day RBG died.

I've made it very clear here, on fark, how scared I feel and i'm not an easily made fearful person. 2016 was the same. I knew before it was called trump would be declared winner, and I knew immediately we'd be f*cked. I wasn't wrong then and I hope like hell i'm wrong this time.

If you have no firearm training, don't buy a rifle or handgun. Buy a shotgun.


Psh, watch me 360 no scope
 
2020-10-28 11:19:13 PM  
There has been a lot of 'signaling' by Republicans this week, the Cruz show this morning yelling at @Jack was pure theatre - and the targeted audience is exactly 1 person.

I don't know if anyone has noticed this or not, but unless you're family, loyalty to the Trump Organization is non-existent. The Republicans have to make allowances for the future that may include a Democratic President. They aren't going to sacrifice their futures for Donald Farking Trump.

He's not going to have a friend in the world after next Tuesday.

Citation:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-28 11:23:57 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mad_Radhu: Difficulty: Trump and Biden aren't the only two candidates on the ballots. Down ticket candidates will not stand for a halt to counting ballots if their races are close. Especially if you have a Secretary of State who is in a close race.

Plus, I'm not sure the military will be happy if ballots from soldiers go uncounted.

Republicans won't care. We've seen many times they'll sacrifice each other and throw anyone under the bus for their own personal gains. Long as they can steal the election they can ignore everyone's vote.


I think you got that backwards. Long as they can ignore everyone's vote, they can steal the election.
 
2020-10-28 11:32:14 PM  

Target Builder: That leads to the final part of the plan: Republicans will try to stop the count as soon as possible on Election Day, probably by midnight that night.


I realize the constitution and history behind it is a running joke to the GOP, something to be trotted out and contorted to justify their shiat, but seeing them pushing this "we must know by midnight" is really something else.

When the Constitution was written they didn't have the internet. They didn't have telephones. They didn't have telegrams. They didn't have cars or trains. They had couriers on horses, and for a lot of the country they didn't even have damn roads.

Each state had to wait until votes came in from all corners before they had a final count. This could take a week or more, if they were really rushing and the county was real organized about only having one polling station.

Then they had to get together, choose their Electors, vote on who the state wanted to have be POTUS and then send a courier to Congress with the results, again a journey that could take weeks.

This is why the Electoral College doesn't vote until over a month after the election.

The fact they are even pretending there's any sort of logical, constitutional or historic justification for needing to stop the count a few hours, or even a few days, after Election Day is beyond insane.


Makes perfect sense to Republicans, because if they have the count stopped for every state when the number of Trump ballots are higher than Biden ballots, they claim Trump won the vote.
 
2020-10-28 11:33:09 PM  

Cortez the Killer: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mad_Radhu: Difficulty: Trump and Biden aren't the only two candidates on the ballots. Down ticket candidates will not stand for a halt to counting ballots if their races are close. Especially if you have a Secretary of State who is in a close race.

Plus, I'm not sure the military will be happy if ballots from soldiers go uncounted.

Republicans won't care. We've seen many times they'll sacrifice each other and throw anyone under the bus for their own personal gains. Long as they can steal the election they can ignore everyone's vote.

I think you got that backwards. Long as they can ignore everyone's vote, they can steal the election.


Either or. They don't care about the votes, the system, or the democracy. They'll ignore everything and claim they won.
 
2020-10-28 11:35:12 PM  

suebhoney: Stibium: //Already got the TOZ Wildcat. Best .22 rifle I have ever owned by far, it's practically a laser beam

What kind of price would i be looking at for this one?


Also I wanted to really point out that that price was indeed for the older bolt-action model. I haven't checked out the newer model under that name which is a semi-auto. The only great thing I can say about the newer model is that it can take 10/22 magazines, and the Wildcat mags have ergonomic improvements for reloading them. Never had a 10/22, but I am familiar with helical magazines from the Calico, and they can be a bit more finnicky than a typical mag.

Speaking of Calico I don't see why that doesn't come up on more scare articles as opposed to an AR. An AR is not a small rifle at all, and few crimes are committed with them. A Calico, on the other hand, is a handgun that can have up to 100 rounds of 9mm +P+ ammunition in it, as well as a mount for a collapsible stock. It's probably as close as you can get to a true semi-auto assault weapon.
 
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