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(Tampa Bay Times)   Rays can't Cash in after pulling Blake Snell early   (tampabay.com) divider line
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249 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Oct 2020 at 10:21 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-28 9:33:16 AM  
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2020-10-28 10:29:41 AM  
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2020-10-28 10:39:13 AM  
Every coaching call is a bad call if you lose.
 
2020-10-28 10:42:30 AM  
Reposting from a different thread:

The whole "third time through the order" thing should go out the window when the pitcher is throwing nearly unhittable stuff. (And no, one single in the sixth inning does not change the "nearly unhittable" conclusion.)

Through the first five innings, Bellinger's swat at the wasp was the most graceful swing by any Dodger.
 
2020-10-28 10:51:33 AM  
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My two favorite MLB teams are the Dodgers and whoever is playing the Yankees.
 
2020-10-28 11:01:01 AM  

Super Chronic: Reposting from a different thread:

The whole "third time through the order" thing should go out the window when the pitcher is throwing nearly unhittable stuff. (And no, one single in the sixth inning does not change the "nearly unhittable" conclusion.)

Through the first five innings, Bellinger's swat at the wasp was the most graceful swing by any Dodger.


Used to play & follow baseball but haven't in some time.  To me as a sport, part of the appeal is the history, the mystique, the flavor of it.  The superstition, the gut calls, guys playing out of their minds in the playoffs.  Those are the stories people remember & if a coach is just going to follow the analytics every time, is he really a coach?
 
2020-10-28 11:02:18 AM  
He panicked, and got burned. Everyone watching knew he was making the wrong move, but somehow Cash himself didn't. Overmanaged himself right out of the series. Honestly, if someone were going to do something like that I would have guessed it would be Dave Roberts.

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Congrats, Dodgers. Lots of good guys on that team.
 
2020-10-28 11:07:30 AM  
You ride your horse.  He wasn't getting hit.  This wasn't like Pedro in 2003, where you could just see the wheels falling off at 115 pitches or so.  Snell was at 70.  In the 6th.  He's your ace.  Take him into the 8th.  Hell, the 9th.  You're the Rays.  You don't expect to be here every year.  Shoot your shot.

Or pull your stud in the 6th and watch your bullpen blow the lead.  Those guys are in the bullpen for a reason, and it isn't because they're better than the guy you had out there.
 
2020-10-28 11:23:12 AM  
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2020-10-28 12:05:36 PM  
Kevin Cash is probably the last manager you would expect to go "you know what? Screw the analytics and all of our various simulated models for in-game situations; my best pitcher is lights out right now and I need to leave him out there".

I haven't paid as much attention to regular season baseball in recent years but I remember him as the guy who wouldn't be afraid to employ a defensive shift in which the entire outfield clusters in short RF and the only infielder on the 3rd base side is doing a handstand while shouting out the lyrics to Queen's "Radio Ga Ga" because his data suggests that between today's humidity, the lunar cycle, his pitcher's stuff, the state of the latest Middle East peace deal, and from hearing that Queen song, the opposing LH hitter is 7.5% more likely to pull the ball.
 
2020-10-28 12:09:51 PM  
Now that Joe Morgan is a ghost, I literally think he's going to be haunting managers who use analytics.
 
2020-10-28 12:17:50 PM  

Cardinal Ximenez: Super Chronic: Reposting from a different thread:

The whole "third time through the order" thing should go out the window when the pitcher is throwing nearly unhittable stuff. (And no, one single in the sixth inning does not change the "nearly unhittable" conclusion.)

Through the first five innings, Bellinger's swat at the wasp was the most graceful swing by any Dodger.

Used to play & follow baseball but haven't in some time.  To me as a sport, part of the appeal is the history, the mystique, the flavor of it.  The superstition, the gut calls, guys playing out of their minds in the playoffs.  Those are the stories people remember & if a coach is just going to follow the analytics every time, is he really a coach?


I think you have something there.  I was astonished to learn what Dave Roberts earns for managing the Dodgers.  Take a guess, and then look it up.  Tells me that all the player moves are called by number guys in the back rooms.

I was thrilled when Cash pulled Snell, but I'm a Dodgers fan.  I expect if I were a Rays fan, I would really pissed.  Snell was dealing, and the Dodgers had not figured him out.  Big mistake.
 
2020-10-28 12:27:08 PM  
 
2020-10-28 12:51:29 PM  
In fairness, it's not like the reliever got crushed. The runs scored on a wild pitch and what would've been an easy groundout to first (potential double play) if the wild pitch hadn't happened.

When you only score a single run, any mistake costs you, and that was the double to Betts.

I would've let Snell pitch, but it would've been real sh*tty if he put another runner on base. Then he gets pulled anyway and is in position to lose the game after having been amazing.

/I did call that the Dodgers were going to score and that the talking point for the day would be this before the reliever got to the mound
//There's always a sh*tty sports radio discussion
///How about how incredibly the Dodgers bullpen held together, holding Tampa to 0 runs from the third batter of the game on?
 
2020-10-28 1:09:49 PM  

Killer Cars: Kevin Cash is probably the last manager you would expect to go "you know what? Screw the analytics and all of our various simulated models for in-game situations; my best pitcher is lights out right now and I need to leave him out there".

I haven't paid as much attention to regular season baseball in recent years but I remember him as the guy who wouldn't be afraid to employ a defensive shift in which the entire outfield clusters in short RF and the only infielder on the 3rd base side is doing a handstand while shouting out the lyrics to Queen's "Radio Ga Ga" because his data suggests that between today's humidity, the lunar cycle, his pitcher's stuff, the state of the latest Middle East peace deal, and from hearing that Queen song, the opposing LH hitter is 7.5% more likely to pull the ball.


Rays radio hammered on that - he made the same decision all year, and it got them that far. though both also said they didn't agree.
 
2020-10-28 1:17:25 PM  

Lucky Stu: I was thrilled when Cash pulled Snell, but I'm a Dodgers fan.  I expect if I were a Rays fan, I would really pissed.  Snell was dealing, and the Dodgers had not figured him out.  Big mistake.


I felt cheated as a fan when Snell got pulled. We were going to see either historic dominance or a tenacious offense hanging in long enough to wear Snell down and break through. Either way, it was going to be a classic. Now, the game will be remembered, but mainly as the starting point for a debate on the value of analytics vs. the eye test.

And I was rooting for the Dodgers. (Not exactly a fan of the team, but way back when I was a teenager I sort of adopted them as my feel-good team since my hometown Mariners were so hopeless, and then '88 happened and that was fun, and I still have a soft spot for them.)
 
2020-10-28 2:57:27 PM  

puffy999: [i.imgur.com image 850x461]


To make another Seahawks-related analogy: the decision to pull Snell is going to be remembered as the baseball equivalent of the decision to pass to Ricardo Lockette at the goal line.
 
2020-10-28 4:00:08 PM  
It's kind of immaterial anyway.  It was highly unlikely Snell was going to throw a full 9-inning shutout which means we were going to have to score another run anyway, which we couldn't do if you spotted us first and 3rd with no outs.
 
2020-10-28 4:17:26 PM  

tricycleracer: It's kind of immaterial anyway.  It was highly unlikely Snell was going to throw a full 9-inning shutout which means we were going to have to score another run anyway, which we couldn't do if you spotted us first and 3rd with no outs.


Snell was replaced by a guy who now owns the record for most consecutive playoff relief appearances giving up a run.

While I wasn't impressed with Castillo in the WS either, he'd have been a better option an inning or two later. I don't doubt Snell could have gone 8 scoreless. If he was pulled THAT late, 90+ pitches in, I think most people would have a different opinion on the decision.
 
2020-10-28 6:31:10 PM  

IAmRight: In fairness, it's not like the reliever got crushed. The runs scored on a wild pitch and what would've been an easy groundout to first (potential double play) if the wild pitch hadn't happened.

When you only score a single run, any mistake costs you, and that was the double to Betts.

I would've let Snell pitch, but it would've been real sh*tty if he put another runner on base. Then he gets pulled anyway and is in position to lose the game after having been amazing.

/I did call that the Dodgers were going to score and that the talking point for the day would be this before the reliever got to the mound
//There's always a sh*tty sports radio discussion
///How about how incredibly the Dodgers bullpen held together, holding Tampa to 0 runs from the third batter of the game on?


Lol, who farking threw the wild pitch!?!

My reaction on that play:
The Departed funny punch alec baldwin
Youtube Aj6PSpUNjU4
 
2020-10-28 11:13:56 PM  
As noted Cash did this all year, and it worked. Snell had 20 something starts of 5 innings. You could argue Cash left some starters in too long in the playoffs.

That said- you gotta have a feel for the game. This isn't strat-o-matic baseball. Snell was doing what no other pitcher did in the series and you have to let him keep throwing through that inning.

If you're argument is third time through the order- why bring in Anderson that everyone has seen a few times now?

Worst case is Snell gives up a run or two and you lose. Best case you survive and then play game 7 that you probably lose anyway because the Dodgers were that good.

Dave Roberts looked like the genius compared to Cash.
 
2020-10-29 7:53:31 AM  
He brought in the wrong reliever.  In the other game Snell had a no hitter into the 5th and it fell a part quickly.
 
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