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(Some Guy)   Uber and Lyft have now spent $200 million to tell California voters that they can't afford to pay workers   (calmatters.org) divider line
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809 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Oct 2020 at 11:13 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-27 7:23:01 PM  
Hey, c'mon, Subby.
GrubHub and Doordash chipped in a few bucks, too.
 
2020-10-27 7:27:46 PM  
Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat
 
2020-10-27 7:29:28 PM  
You can always tell the truth about a California proposition based upon where the money comes from to support it, and how altruistic the big spenders are likely to be.

Prop 22, heavily sponsored by Uber, Lyft, & DoorDash, surely because they care so much about poor people at the expense of their profits.

Prop 19, heavily sponsored by the National Association of Realtors & California Association of Realtors, surely because they want people to keep their family homes, not be forced to sell them.

Etc...
 
2020-10-27 7:38:18 PM  
Well, i voted no on their prop, so it was wasted on me.
 
2020-10-27 7:59:04 PM  

Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat


Both these things are very true. It was a good shock to the systems that were in place for decades, though. And I'm kind of glad that Michael Cohen's cab medallion is now a worthless piece of junk.

The app just made running an illegal cab safer for everyone, but it was successful because cab companies were a scumbag protected monopoly that treated everyone like shiat and the cities never lifted a finger to help people.
 
2020-10-27 11:15:11 PM  

raerae1980: Well, i voted no on their prop, so it was wasted on me.


Ditto
 
2020-10-27 11:16:13 PM  
Sounds like a self-correcting problem.
 
2020-10-27 11:16:53 PM  

Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat


Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?
 
2020-10-27 11:20:20 PM  
AB5 was well iintentioned, but overreaching. If someone drives 40 or more hours a week for a ride-share company, yeah, they are an employee. Give them the bennies. Everyone at corporate is getting them, no mistake about that.

But a lot of people freelance on occasion to make a bit of extra cash. Companies should not be expected to treat them as full-time employees with benefits and et cetera. Just have them fill out a W9 and declare it as freelance income come tax time.
 
2020-10-27 11:20:45 PM  
"If Prop. 22 fails, gig companies like Lyft, Uber, DoorDash and Instacart would have to quickly reclassify and pay contract workers as employees with hourly minimum wage, overtime pay, mileage reimbursement, health care and paid leave."

$200m is a drop in the bucket vs what they'll have to pay if the measure doesn't pass.
 
2020-10-27 11:21:55 PM  

Karma Chameleon: Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat

Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?


Probably...but in this case, they could really just charge more (and provide better pay/benefits to the drivers) and people would still use the service I think.  I don't choose Uber over cabs because of the cost.  I do it because the app is easy to use, I know what the price is going to be before I order it, and responsiveness is usually pretty good.
 
2020-10-27 11:23:01 PM  
Also, the thing that bugs me about this, is that the ride-sharing companies are only fighting this for their own benefit, not for gig workers as a whole. But that's the whole Silicon Valley douche-bro mindset. We've seen it many times.
 
2020-10-27 11:23:45 PM  
I voted FARK NO already and have told everyone I know to do the same.
 
2020-10-27 11:26:50 PM  

Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?


Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.
 
2020-10-27 11:28:11 PM  

Karma Chameleon: Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat

Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?


No, they just have to be willing to pay more for the convenience
 
2020-10-27 11:29:09 PM  

CaptainFatass: Also, the thing that bugs me about this, is that the ride-sharing companies are only fighting this for their own benefit, not for gig workers as a whole. But that's the whole Silicon Valley douche-bro mindset. We've seen it many times.


This isn't a mindset of just the Ilicon Valley douche bros.  It's a very American method of business.
 
2020-10-27 11:29:54 PM  

emtwo: Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.


Comfort. Convenience frees up your mind for important shiat.
 
2020-10-27 11:32:23 PM  
That's like the cost of one Doordash order after the tip. Why, yes. I am an astronomically good tipper because it is both righteous and virutuous. If you can't tip that much, maybe you can't afford to eat out.
 
2020-10-27 11:34:23 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Karma Chameleon: Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat

Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Probably...but in this case, they could really just charge more (and provide better pay/benefits to the drivers) and people would still use the service I think.  I don't choose Uber over cabs because of the cost.  I do it because the app is easy to use, I know what the price is going to be before I order it, and responsiveness is usually pretty good.


And this might be because I'm often a tourist. But an uber driver is gonna fark me over and take me the long way round when we can both see the map and directions
 
2020-10-27 11:35:19 PM  

Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.

Comfort. Convenience frees up your mind for important shiat.


A distinction without a difference, my friend.
 
2020-10-27 11:37:34 PM  
I don't think the drivers know how they should vote because their balls and livelihoods are in the pockets of corporate interests.

When your job depends on nothing more than your boss's happiness, your job is always gonna suck.
 
2020-10-27 11:43:15 PM  

Courtney Cox-Zucker: I don't think the drivers know how they should vote because their balls and livelihoods are in the pockets of corporate interests.

When your job depends on nothing more than your boss's happiness, your job is always gonna suck.


Remember, they're contract workers so they have no bosses.  I've been taking these rides for a month now, back and forth to work everyday, and anywhere else I have to get to.  Every single driver wanted yes on 22.  A lot of the drivers are doing it part time and like the freedom of working when they want.  And given the smaller numbers of drivers there are b/c of covid, I'm happy they're out there.
 
2020-10-27 11:47:00 PM  
If we had a proper single payer healthcare system in this country, the distinction between employee and contractor wouldn't matter as much. This is a band-aid on a much bigger issue than healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment status.
 
2020-10-27 11:48:59 PM  

Dr.Fey: You can always tell the truth about a California proposition based upon where the money comes from to support it, and how altruistic the big spenders are likely to be.

Prop 22, heavily sponsored by Uber, Lyft, & DoorDash, surely because they care so much about poor people at the expense of their profits.

Prop 19, heavily sponsored by the National Association of Realtors & California Association of Realtors, surely because they want people to keep their family homes, not be forced to sell them.

Etc...


No kidding. I saw prop 22 ads EVERY ad break without fail and sometimes twice in the same break. They still are. I'll be glad when all the political ads go away.
 
2020-10-27 11:51:40 PM  

Gubbo: Uber and Lyft are incredibly convenient services. You could say they've changed every city in America.

But this gig economy nonsense is bullshiat


It's a tough call.

On one hand, these folks need additional income.

Yet they make about $2.59 an hour, pollute the air, and clogs the roads.

FYI, the labor unions in the 50s and 60s fought for proper wages and benefits for us all.

Perhaps the wrong issue is on the ballot.
 
2020-10-27 11:52:33 PM  

Summoner101: CaptainFatass: Also, the thing that bugs me about this, is that the ride-sharing companies are only fighting this for their own benefit, not for gig workers as a whole. But that's the whole Silicon Valley douche-bro mindset. We've seen it many times.

This isn't a mindset of just the Ilicon Valley douche bros.  It's a very American method of business.


Yeah but it seems particularly hyped up with these little shiats.
 
2020-10-27 11:55:18 PM  
My ex is a Uber driver and she is all no on it. In her case it is unemployment benefits. Somehow she has them now but will go away if it passes or some such. I'm light on the details.

My only contribution to Uber was breaking out my soldering iron and fixing a broken wire on her sign.
 
2020-10-27 11:58:02 PM  

emtwo: Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.

Comfort. Convenience frees up your mind for important shiat.

A distinction without a difference, my friend.


I'm not so sure. A zipper is a convenient way to make urination easier. I wouldn't say it's hindered social development.

Markets and stores made it so that not all elements of society had to focus on feeding themselves and instead could open universities and send men into space.

Like, I get what you're saying. There should not be services that come and pick up your dog's shiat, but having a doctor reset a broken bone is probably better than having one of the other peasant farmers do it.
 
2020-10-28 12:03:12 AM  

Dr.Fey: You can always tell the truth about a California proposition based upon where the money comes from to support it, and how altruistic the big spenders are likely to be.

Prop 22, heavily sponsored by Uber, Lyft, & DoorDash, surely because they care so much about poor people at the expense of their profits.

Prop 19, heavily sponsored by the National Association of Realtors & California Association of Realtors, surely because they want people to keep their family homes, not be forced to sell them.

Etc...


The kidney dialysis same thing, like 125MM to 5MM spending.

Easy votes all of them.
 
2020-10-28 12:04:02 AM  
I've interviewed with both for tech gigs. The decision making that powers their abuse of people in the driver category is visible further up the chain. Their entire staffing is young. Like, REALLY young. Lyft, especially, had no engineers over 35 on any of the teams I interviewed with. Shiat, the members all were promoted internally and were just as green as the kids who worked for them.

This is good because it helps get their foot in the door but it also suggests hiring decisions for skilled labor being decided almost purely on cost. College grad are willing to do the roommate shtick and take much lower pay than someone who has been in the industry for a few years. At least when there's not a job market collapse. When you consider their business plans it makes a lot of sense...
 
2020-10-28 12:04:06 AM  

Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.

Comfort. Convenience frees up your mind for important shiat.

A distinction without a difference, my friend.

I'm not so sure. A zipper is a convenient way to make urination easier. I wouldn't say it's hindered social development.

Markets and stores made it so that not all elements of society had to focus on feeding themselves and instead could open universities and send men into space.

Like, I get what you're saying. There should not be services that come and pick up your dog's shiat, but having a doctor reset a broken bone is probably better than having one of the other peasant farmers do it.


Eh, "access to medical services" isn't exactly how I'd define convenience.

But it sounds like we're probably more-or-less on the same page and simply differ in semantics.
 
2020-10-28 12:12:29 AM  

CaptainFatass: AB5 was well iintentioned, but overreaching. If someone drives 40 or more hours a week for a ride-share company, yeah, they are an employee. Give them the bennies. Everyone at corporate is getting them, no mistake about that.

But a lot of people freelance on occasion to make a bit of extra cash. Companies should not be expected to treat them as full-time employees with benefits and et cetera. Just have them fill out a W9 and declare it as freelance income come tax time.


I'm a freelancer. Do I not deserve access to benefits and healthcare because of that?
 
2020-10-28 12:13:08 AM  

FnkyTwn: "If Prop. 22 fails, gig companies like Lyft, Uber, DoorDash and Instacart would have to quickly reclassify and pay contract workers as employees with hourly minimum wage, overtime pay, mileage reimbursement, health care and paid leave."

$200m is a drop in the bucket vs what they'll have to pay if the measure doesn't pass.


Yep. If they're willing to fork over this much cash, that means it's gonna hurt them way more.

Let it hurt them. A lot. Side with the workers, voters.
 
2020-10-28 12:14:42 AM  

Mad_Radhu: If we had a proper single payer healthcare system in this country, the distinction between employee and contractor wouldn't matter as much. This is a band-aid on a much bigger issue than healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment status.


The centrists keep telling me we can't have universal healthcare because it's too unpopular with voters. You know, despite it being wildly popular with the entire country.
 
2020-10-28 12:16:09 AM  
I know we're all gung-ho to screw the corporations, but if rideshare drivers become regular employees with minimum wages and benefits, then their employers will need to assign profitable routes and schedules and fire under-performing drivers.  People who are make Uber their main job would benefit a lot from these changes, but people who do a few hours every once in a while as a side job may find they've lost the flexibility it gave or get fired because the way they like to rideshare is unprofitable with the new requirements.
 
2020-10-28 12:24:34 AM  

emtwo: Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Natalie Portmanteau: emtwo: Karma Chameleon: Nothing will truly change in this country until more people have less convenience in their lives. Who is going to opt for that though?

Convenience is quite literally the enemy of progress. It is known.

Comfort. Convenience frees up your mind for important shiat.

A distinction without a difference, my friend.

I'm not so sure. A zipper is a convenient way to make urination easier. I wouldn't say it's hindered social development.

Markets and stores made it so that not all elements of society had to focus on feeding themselves and instead could open universities and send men into space.

Like, I get what you're saying. There should not be services that come and pick up your dog's shiat, but having a doctor reset a broken bone is probably better than having one of the other peasant farmers do it.

Eh, "access to medical services" isn't exactly how I'd define convenience.

But it sounds like we're probably more-or-less on the same page and simply differ in semantics.


Yeah. But for what its worth I wasn't saying the medical services were the conveniences, I was saying the conveniences allowed the freedom and time to develop the medical services.
 
2020-10-28 12:25:45 AM  

Hoobajube: I know we're all gung-ho to screw the corporations, but if rideshare drivers become regular employees with minimum wages and benefits, then their employers will need to assign profitable routes and schedules and fire under-performing drivers.  People who are make Uber their main job would benefit a lot from these changes, but people who do a few hours every once in a while as a side job may find they've lost the flexibility it gave or get fired because the way they like to rideshare is unprofitable with the new requirements.


We should not be prioritizing those people's convenience over people who need to make a living.
 
2020-10-28 12:31:04 AM  
Voted no on it. Make Uber and the other s pay their employees and state taxes.
 
2020-10-28 12:41:49 AM  
On one hand, Uber, Lyft and other gig economy jobs is driving the workforce towards a sustenance level of existence that will likely end in guillotines and fire, with the resulting upheaval setting back civilization for decades.

On the other hand, I may have to pay a few bucks more for a cab.

I can't decide.
 
2020-10-28 12:52:35 AM  

austerity101: Hoobajube: I know we're all gung-ho to screw the corporations, but if rideshare drivers become regular employees with minimum wages and benefits, then their employers will need to assign profitable routes and schedules and fire under-performing drivers.  People who are make Uber their main job would benefit a lot from these changes, but people who do a few hours every once in a while as a side job may find they've lost the flexibility it gave or get fired because the way they like to rideshare is unprofitable with the new requirements.

We should not be prioritizing those people's convenience over people who need to make a living.


I guess there is a big divide between those who view their ridesharing as a freelance side gig versus those who are trying to make it their main source of income.

I think these companies could have saved themselves some trouble by working more like a matchmaking service for car sharing and let drivers set their own fees, but then they might not have ever been as successful.

Just to play devil's advocate, if I start renting out a spare bedroom through Airbnb or selling goods on EBay or Etsy as my way of making a living, at what point should I become an employee with benefits?
 
2020-10-28 12:53:01 AM  
I only voted no on two of the 10 or so props this year.  This was one of them.  Fark em. Provide your employees healthcare or GTFO.
 
2020-10-28 1:14:29 AM  
Besides the obvious stuff people already mentioned...

Driving as a job will eventually go away.  I don't have a crystal ball for when or anything, but it seems inevitable.  Uber's dataset and algorithms will continue to be valuable even then.  These drivers contribute a lot to that, so they should get something for that.
 
2020-10-28 1:19:14 AM  
I swear to farkin' god, if I hear one more add use the bullshiat term "app-based drivers" I'm going to kick app-based puppies.  You know what an "app-based driver" is?  It's a video gamer.  Fark off with your bullshiat terms like "ride sharing" (you aren't sharing shiat) and "app-based drivers".  You are running a taxi service and don't want to admit it.
 
2020-10-28 1:49:20 AM  
The new state law basically bans Uber or Lyft from hiring part time workers, even if said workers want to work part time.  Part of the whole point is for people to do this as either a side thing, or as a part time job for people who can't take or don't want a full time job.  Also, they get paid more when demand is higher, as opposed to sitting around waiting through an entire eight hour shift if only a couple hours are really where the demand is.

If the state law was realistic and acknowledged the part time nature of much of this work, there would be less of a problem.  It doesn't, so I voted for 22.
 
dp3 [OhFark]
2020-10-28 1:55:42 AM  
The part where this automatically became a "no" for me is the requirement for 7/8 votes to amend the proposition. Even if there's a good change to make, good luck getting near unanimous consent.

Things where 7/8 Americans can't agree:
• Does pineapple belong on pizza?
• Which restaurant to pick
• Are nazis bad?
• Was slavery bad?
• Should you wear socks with shoes?
• Should toilet paper roll over or under?

So yeah, I'm not expecting things to go well when it comes to nuanced changes to an employment law that requires virtual unanimity.
 
2020-10-28 2:38:39 AM  

Hoobajube: austerity101: Hoobajube: I know we're all gung-ho to screw the corporations, but if rideshare drivers become regular employees with minimum wages and benefits, then their employers will need to assign profitable routes and schedules and fire under-performing drivers.  People who are make Uber their main job would benefit a lot from these changes, but people who do a few hours every once in a while as a side job may find they've lost the flexibility it gave or get fired because the way they like to rideshare is unprofitable with the new requirements.

We should not be prioritizing those people's convenience over people who need to make a living.

I guess there is a big divide between those who view their ridesharing as a freelance side gig versus those who are trying to make it their main source of income.

I think these companies could have saved themselves some trouble by working more like a matchmaking service for car sharing and let drivers set their own fees, but then they might not have ever been as successful.

Just to play devil's advocate, if I start renting out a spare bedroom through Airbnb or selling goods on EBay or Etsy as my way of making a living, at what point should I become an employee with benefits?


Are you having other people provide the actual products and services?
 
2020-10-28 3:02:55 AM  
I have begun responding to texts and phone calls about the various props and/or candidates by launching into a detailed and elaborate description of my penis.

Ain't nobody farkin undecided, quit calling me.
 
2020-10-28 3:11:36 AM  

CaptainFatass: AB5 was well iintentioned, but overreaching. If someone drives 40 or more hours a week for a ride-share company, yeah, they are an employee. Give them the bennies. Everyone at corporate is getting them, no mistake about that.

But a lot of people freelance on occasion to make a bit of extra cash. Companies should not be expected to treat them as full-time employees with benefits and et cetera. Just have them fill out a W9 and declare it as freelance income come tax time.


Full time is actually over 30 for benifits.
 
2020-10-28 5:19:45 AM  

dp3: Things where 7/8 Americans can't agree:
• Does pineapple belong on pizza?


There are no Americans who think that pineapple belongs are pizza.  I don't know who those people are, but they aren't Americans, that's for sure.
 
2020-10-28 6:55:57 AM  
Stories like this make me wonder why the other 49 states don't immediately try to pass the same initiative. I mean maybe Idaho would only get $10 million in ad spending, but that would still be an enormous shot in the arm for local ad agencies, media outlets, and so on.
 
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