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(TechRadar)   Once again, Microsoft is getting ready to ship a version of Windows that can't run Windows software. This should be about as successful as it has been every other time they have tried it   (techradar.com) divider line
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2123 clicks; posted to STEM » and Business » on 27 Oct 2020 at 5:33 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-27 5:09:24 PM  
FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.
 
2020-10-27 5:51:07 PM  
That's very odd considering they literally just released a dual screen phone... running Android.

Did I expect TOO MUCH from the Surface Duo?
Youtube Y_WXPD0ttm0
 
2020-10-27 6:06:15 PM  

beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.


I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....
 
2020-10-27 6:12:38 PM  
That is the one thing i hate most of all about OS and and software being patchable, it has made companies decide it is alright to ship unfinished products as they can patch in the rest later so long as it kinda sort of works.

Sadly most folks find this acceptable enough to continue buying the crap.
 
2020-10-27 6:15:06 PM  

Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....


Ha ha ha
 
2020-10-27 6:43:14 PM  

Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....


Funny how the Linux community got a lot of things right with that O/S but has totally dropped the ball on the UI experience. I guess asking command line loving geeks to come up with a graphical UI is asking too much. As much as people like to rail on Windows and even Mac, getting a generic UI that works for the masses is freaking hard.
 
2020-10-27 7:10:11 PM  
If I can't run Firefox on it...

...it's a child's toy.
 
2020-10-27 7:11:15 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-27 7:20:48 PM  
I had to reinstall Windows 10 for the third time this past weekend. Though it was because my OS SSD finally failed after 5 years.

/the last month or so it had been taking 10-20 minutes for windows to get to a usable state
//shoulda figured something was up and backed up my data, but no, I'm too lazy for that
 
2020-10-27 7:31:52 PM  
I miss DOS.
 
2020-10-27 7:36:07 PM  

Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....


Akhshully, there linux is a kernel, not an operating system. I think you mean GNU/Linux. And there are many desktops. You might be referring to GNOME.

Just wanted to clear that up.
 
2020-10-27 7:43:11 PM  

iamskibibitz: Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....

Funny how the Linux community got a lot of things right with that O/S but has totally dropped the ball on the UI experience. I guess asking command line loving geeks to come up with a graphical UI is asking too much. As much as people like to rail on Windows and even Mac, getting a generic UI that works for the masses is freaking hard.


Have you tried Linux in the past 5 years?
Most distros have a very usable UI that is suitable for the masses.

I'm not really a fan of Linux, but it's not because of the UI.
 
2020-10-27 8:23:21 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Have you tried Linux in the past 5 years?
Most distros have a very usable UI that is suitable for the masses.

I'm not really a fan of Linux, but it's not because of the UI.


I have to remote into an Ubuntu 18 VM every day and use its UI. Not sure which UI it is but I can say with 100% confidence that it sucks. Maybe there are others that are better. But. Not. This. One.
 
2020-10-27 8:24:13 PM  

beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.


The latest version of Windows 10 breaks Explorer, which is at least a novel way of keeping you from figuring out if Windows Update has accidentally deleted all the user's files again.
 
2020-10-27 8:27:05 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: iamskibibitz: Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....

Funny how the Linux community got a lot of things right with that O/S but has totally dropped the ball on the UI experience. I guess asking command line loving geeks to come up with a graphical UI is asking too much. As much as people like to rail on Windows and even Mac, getting a generic UI that works for the masses is freaking hard.

Have you tried Linux in the past 5 years?
Most distros have a very usable UI that is suitable for the masses.

I'm not really a fan of Linux, but it's not because of the UI.


This. When XP's end-of-life came I set my 90-year-old grandmother's machine up with Lubuntu rather than pay $100+ for a Windows license.

She took to it like a duck to water. It looked and worked pretty much the same, only faster. It did everything most home users do, such as word processing / email / web browsing.

I didn't have to run a build script for anything at all, and it picked up her old printer immediately.  I've heard a lot of people like the Mint distribution for much the same reason.

We're not back in the 1990's running Red Hat, people.
 
2020-10-27 8:38:46 PM  
FTA:

"Being unable to run your favorite programs, or any application you require for work, severely limits the appeal and usability of the operating system"

People use IOS and Android on their handheld devices all the time, and by now they have a larger installed user base than Windows ever did, even though they don't run all the applications you use on your work laptop.

That's silly, trying to compare a desktop OS with a handheld OS. Android and IOS are quite popular.

MS should have called it "Microsoft Portable" or something like that to avoid goofy tech writers from saying "but it's not Windows!!!" Calling it Windows 10X was just building incorrect expectations.
 
2020-10-27 8:48:20 PM  
It's not really a "new OS", it's a stripped-down OS for netbooks designed only to support the kinds of applications you would run on a netbook.

For the youngsters, a "netbook" is a device whose sole purpose is to serve as an access point for network databases, meaning interacting with what would now be called cloud files or collaborative documents, do basic text editing for said documents and emails, access simple websites and certain kinds of online media, etc.  Essentially this OS is intended for devices substantially less generally powerful and more narrowly specialized than the phone you might be reading this post on right now.

Actually, Android itself started as a netbook OS, though I'm not sure it can really be called that now.  They literally named the dirt-cheap, extremely low-powered hardware it was designed for, which had roughly the functionality of a yellow legal pad and a worn-down pencil nub, "Chromebook".
 
2020-10-27 8:58:56 PM  

Jim_Callahan: It's not really a "new OS", it's a stripped-down OS for netbooks designed only to support the kinds of applications you would run on a netbook.


Nope.  It's a new version of Windows that drops the legacy code you need to support Win32 software.

Windows Core OS is something we've been writing about since early 2017 and has been in the works for much longer. It's the future of Windows, which takes the shared code of OneCore and builds a modern, legacy-free OS on top of it.
 
2020-10-27 8:59:03 PM  

mongbiohazard: That's very odd considering they literally just released a dual screen phone... running Android.

[YouTube video: Did I expect TOO MUCH from the Surface Duo?]


That actually makes sense, as a mobile device with almost no software is going to crash and burn when competing with mature existing mobile ecosystems.

10X looks like a mix of ChromeOS and a clean design of windows and will already have webapp and uwp support and may still have win32 emulation in the future, but seems to be intended as a regular pc desktop environment rather than a mobile one.
 
2020-10-27 9:04:15 PM  
Microsoft has been teasing a Linux distro for a while. Sql runs on Linux. They are big in the docker community. Azure is supposedly .ux .  Hopefully they get it together and come up with something. I'm sure it will be a ripoff of OSX, but I'd be okay with that.
 
2020-10-27 9:08:03 PM  

iamskibibitz: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Have you tried Linux in the past 5 years?
Most distros have a very usable UI that is suitable for the masses.

I'm not really a fan of Linux, but it's not because of the UI.

I have to remote into an Ubuntu 18 VM every day and use its UI. Not sure which UI it is but I can say with 100% confidence that it sucks. Maybe there are others that are better. But. Not. This. One.


I feel for you. I understand you don't get to choose what UI they're running on. :(

I used to use Ubuntu on my laptops until they switched over to the gawd awful "Unity" desktop that was full of tiles and was meant to present the same UI on desktops and tablets. It had the same awkwardness that made people hate Windows 8 so much. Fingers are not mice / keyboards. Stop trying to make them act the same!

Since then, I've used Lubuntu, which is the exact same kernel under the chrome, but with a nice, zippy UI that looks pretty much like Windows 7. Basically you can find a desktop UI that runs in a layer over the Linux kernel that suits any preference. Basically Linux divorces the "look-and-feel" of the kernel from the UI.

One thing I recommend for people who are Linux-curious is YUMI. You can set up a bootable USB stick with multiple distributions of Linux, and try them out and see what works for you. Plus if you do tech support you can pack a lot of tools on to a 32G stick.
 
2020-10-27 9:25:17 PM  

BullBearMS: Jim_Callahan: It's not really a "new OS", it's a stripped-down OS for netbooks designed only to support the kinds of applications you would run on a netbook.

Nope.  It's a new version of Windows that drops the legacy code you need to support Win32 software.

Windows Core OS is something we've been writing about since early 2017 and has been in the works for much longer. It's the future of Windows, which takes the shared code of OneCore and builds a modern, legacy-free OS on top of it.


And I've been writing Python, Node.js and Arduino code in the free Visual Studio Code IDE / toolchain for months on both Windows and Linux. Neither the OS nor the code itself cares what platform I do it on.

So that's kinda neat. It really doesn't give a darn what language you're working in, people are adding new extensions to it all the time. Mono for Linux made a stab at that with .net, but... This is kinda something else.

SQL support, especially across various dialects is still sort of rough.

I don't know how they'd make money off of it, but having $10,000s of money over the decades on development tools from various vendors, I have to wonder how they're planning to make money.

MS VS Code is kinda a rough IDE, and I still think that VS Pro is the best IDE so far IMHO, but Code is working on it.
 
2020-10-27 9:35:12 PM  

maxheck: And I've been writing Python, Node.js and Arduino code in the free Visual Studio Code IDE / toolchain for months on both Windows and Linux. Neither the OS nor the code itself cares what platform I do it on.


If you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, it suddenly matters quite a lot.

We've already seen what happens when Microsoft tries to sell "Windows that can't run Windows software" when they lost a billion dollars pushing Windows RT on the Surface RT.
 
2020-10-27 9:44:17 PM  

Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....


To be fair, WINE runs many win32 programs just fine
 
2020-10-27 9:54:26 PM  

BullBearMS: We've already seen what happens when Microsoft tries to sell "Windows that can't run Windows software" when they lost a billion dollars pushing Windows RT on the Surface RT.


Really?

What exactly DO you run on your phone or tablet?
 
2020-10-27 10:01:23 PM  

BullBearMS: f you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, it suddenly matters quite a lot.


If you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, you are probably running screen-scraping off a terminal.
 
2020-10-27 10:19:45 PM  

maxheck: BullBearMS: We've already seen what happens when Microsoft tries to sell "Windows that can't run Windows software" when they lost a billion dollars pushing Windows RT on the Surface RT.

Really?

What exactly DO you run on your phone or tablet?


Phones and tablets have software that doesn't require access to the Win32 apis.

Windows software?  Not so much.

Metro has failed as a Win32 replacement in the marketplace over and over again.
 
2020-10-27 10:21:15 PM  

maxheck: BullBearMS: f you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, it suddenly matters quite a lot.

If you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, you are probably running screen-scraping off a terminal.


LOL.  The VAST majority of software for Windows is legacy Win32 code.
 
2020-10-27 10:48:37 PM  

Tax Boy: Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....

Akhshully, there linux is a kernel, not an operating system. I think you mean GNU/Linux. And there are many desktops. You might be referring to GNOME.

Just wanted to clear that up.


They clearly said "superior Linux desktop". Obviously they meant KDE.

/Okay, KDE vs Gnome is no "vi vs Emacs", but it ought to get some bites
//"systemd!"
///(flees the ensuing conflagration, giggling...)
 
2020-10-27 10:53:02 PM  

grimlock1972: That is the one thing i hate most of all about OS and and software being patchable, it has made companies decide it is alright to ship unfinished products as they can patch in the rest later so long as it kinda sort of works.

Sadly most folks find this acceptable enough to continue buying the crap.


This one really can't be patched in later.

The rationale for removing Win32 support is that doing so removes the necessity to run the operating system on an x86-based processor.  They're targeting both x86 and ARM as platforms.  It's not designed to compete with a Windows desktop, but a Chromebook or the like.
 
2020-10-27 11:37:04 PM  

Jim_Callahan: For the youngsters, a "netbook" is a device whose sole purpose is to serve as an access point for network databases, meaning interacting with what would now be called cloud files or collaborative documents, do basic text editing for said documents and emails, access simple websites and certain kinds of online media, etc.  Essentially this OS is intended for devices substantially less generally powerful and more narrowly specialized than the phone you might be reading this post on right now.


You think youngsters need to be told this? A lot of them have been doing school from home on Chromebooks recently.

Actually, Android itself started as a netbook OS, though I'm not sure it can really be called that now.  They literally named the dirt-cheap, extremely low-powered hardware it was designed for, which had roughly the functionality of a yellow legal pad and a worn-down pencil nub, "Chromebook".

Android started as a phone OS.

Given that tablets and netbooks are essentially smartphones with bigger batteries and possibly no mobile radio, it's not a bad idea to put smartphone operating systems on them.
 
2020-10-27 11:59:28 PM  

Nimbull: I miss DOS.


It's one more than Uno
One less than tres.
 
2020-10-28 1:43:08 AM  

BullBearMS: Jim_Callahan: It's not really a "new OS", it's a stripped-down OS for netbooks designed only to support the kinds of applications you would run on a netbook.

Nope.  It's a new version of Windows that drops the legacy code you need to support Win32 software.

Windows Core OS is something we've been writing about since early 2017 and has been in the works for much longer. It's the future of Windows, which takes the shared code of OneCore and builds a modern, legacy-free OS on top of it.


Sigh.

Windows 10X is designed to be run on ARM-architecture, and thus doesn't support x86. That's it. That's literally it. Every argument, or worrying about an update is completely moot. This is for IoT, tablets and cell phones. The article posted also says "rumors" and also mentions that it will be available in the enterprise version of the software.

If you want Windows 10, buy Windows 10. Your use cases for 10X are very small as a standard consumer.

BullBearMS: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

The latest version of Windows 10 breaks Explorer, which is at least a novel way of keeping you from figuring out if Windows Update has accidentally deleted all the user's files again.


Sure it does bud. I guess that's why I'm posting from my desktop, after using explorer and RDP all day, on Windows 10 running the latest updates. Whatever your vendetta, you need to let it go.

BullBearMS: maxheck: BullBearMS: f you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, it suddenly matters quite a lot.

If you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, you are probably running screen-scraping off a terminal.

LOL.  The VAST majority of software for Windows is legacy Win32 code.


And ALL of it is interpreted by WOW64 emulation to run it as x64 code. Windows hasn't had a 32-bit installer for about 6 months, and is completely phasing it out. Soooo, yeah. They'll fix this with emulation as well, either as an unlockable or a feature that comes later. For now, the UWP/PWA's will suffice, as they are targeting single-screen devices. E.g. low cost devices. 

When the more expensive stuff (and better hardware) comes around, the software will improve.
 
2020-10-28 5:42:44 AM  
Sure thing, sporto.  You tell yourself that a version of Windows that cannot run Windows software will be super successful this time. *facepalm*
 
2020-10-28 6:09:56 AM  
So there's literally one person in here who read the article.

Welcome to Fark, and all that, but that's kinda pathetic.
 
2020-10-28 8:21:50 AM  
Win32 apps are a dead end anyway, as are OS differences. The future is JavaScript running on yet another copy of Chromium (Electron).

With Microsoft turning Edge into another Chromium browser I bet it's only a matter of time before they convert office. Heck, they probably just need to stuff the web versions into Electron and ship it.

/ the year is "2020". All languages are JavaScript, all types are "string"
// I only wish I was joking 🙃
 
2020-10-28 8:53:28 AM  

cfreak: All languages are JavaScript, all types are "string"


LOL, you aren't wrong. Though Typescript adds a bit of sanity to JS.
 
2020-10-28 8:55:55 AM  

phimuskapsi: cfreak: All languages are JavaScript, all types are "string"

LOL, you aren't wrong. Though Typescript adds a bit of sanity to JS.


Yeah I have the joy of writing it sometimes too
 
2020-10-28 9:06:59 AM  
Did Microsoft give enough of a heads-up? When Apple stopped supporting the 68XXX/PowerPC/32-bit applications, there was a lead time of years for developers to develop the more modern versions, and most of the software carried over without much of a stink on the user end.

Does this change carry over to the desktop in the long run? Will Windows 11 or 12 get rid of legacy support or is this just for the mobile side? Because if it is the latter, it's just more incentive for people to continue ignoring Windows mobile development and focus on the unix-based Android and iOS/OSX systems.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft getting rid of its cruft. It's needed to for decades. The issue is how they manage it.

/Desktop (though not enterprise) linux died as a viable replacement when android became viable. Why develop for linux when you could have a much, much larger platform where people will actual pay for your work?
 
2020-10-28 9:22:18 AM  

luidprand: Did Microsoft give enough of a heads-up? When Apple stopped supporting the 68XXX/PowerPC/32-bit applications, there was a lead time of years for developers to develop the more modern versions, and most of the software carried over without much of a stink on the user end.

Does this change carry over to the desktop in the long run? Will Windows 11 or 12 get rid of legacy support or is this just for the mobile side? Because if it is the latter, it's just more incentive for people to continue ignoring Windows mobile development and focus on the unix-based Android and iOS/OSX systems.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft getting rid of its cruft. It's needed to for decades. The issue is how they manage it.

/Desktop (though not enterprise) linux died as a viable replacement when android became viable. Why develop for linux when you could have a much, much larger platform where people will actual pay for your work?


TFA is talking about a release to manufacturers of late next year. The rest of it was speculation about 'could' and 'might'.
 
2020-10-28 9:57:14 AM  

iamskibibitz: Dick Gozinya: beezeltown: FINALLY...I've been waiting for MS to inexplicably f*ck everything up for me, again.

I'm sure this will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and everyone will finally switch to the far superior Linux desktop....

Funny how the Linux community got a lot of things right with that O/S but has totally dropped the ball on the UI experience. I guess asking command line loving geeks to come up with a graphical UI is asking too much. As much as people like to rail on Windows and even Mac, getting a generic UI that works for the masses is freaking hard.

 
2020-10-28 9:59:51 AM  

BullBearMS: Sure thing, sporto.  You tell yourself that a version of Windows that cannot run Windows software will be super successful this time. *facepalm*


What, you mean like Windows CE or Windows embedded which didn't run native applications either? Or Windows 10 Mobile, which also relied on PWA's and UWP's?

Please. Educate. Yourself.
 
2020-10-28 6:55:51 PM  

BullBearMS: maxheck: BullBearMS: f you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, it suddenly matters quite a lot.

If you need to run all that legacy Win32 code that forces enterprise and home users to hold onto Windows, you are probably running screen-scraping off a terminal.

LOL.  The VAST majority of software for Windows is legacy Win32 code.


Friend, I spent 30 years of my life WRITING Win32 code, because that's what clients wanted. And even now I can't see why that burr is so far up your butt about this.
 
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