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(Washington Post)   After their absentee ballots go "missing", voters are flying home to vote. "Five hours of flying is more than worth it to prevent four more years of this president"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
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1257 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 27 Oct 2020 at 12:19 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-27 1:31:16 PM  

lincoln65: Honest to God this country is falling apart. We can't even handle the mail.

Dejoy should be hanged.


I wonder if the Postmaster General can be prosecuted under

18 U.S. Code § 1701 - Obstruction of mails generally

Whoever knowingly and willfully obstructs or retards the passage of the mail, or any carrier or conveyance carrying the mail, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 778; Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII, §330016(1)(B), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2146.)
He sure as shiat did "willfully obstructs or retards the passage of the mail", but I doubt this would actually apply since his "official justification" was to improve the finances of the USPS. Maybe they could subpoena his records and actually find enoough documents proving that some Republican consultant told him exactly what to do. That did happen on the US census and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, but that just got the citizenship question thrown out. I want criminal charges against that asshole.
 
2020-10-27 1:34:23 PM  
Also, if you're going in person, keep this handy:

https://www.vote.org/election-protect​i​on/

It has links to ID laws, voting rights by state, and a hotline to call if you have problems at the polls. Never leave without either voting, or calling hotlines for help.

If you never got your absentee ballot, you can often talk to a supervisor at the polls, and have the absentee ballot looked up and struck off, so that your in-person ballot doesn't have to be provisional. This was what the Virginia voting office told me FWIW.
 
2020-10-27 1:38:01 PM  
Ya know you can register to vote anywhere in the united states. Lot cheaper and easier than flying for 5 hours
 
2020-10-27 1:40:46 PM  

Suibian: Also, if you're going in person, keep this handy:

https://www.vote.org/election-protecti​on/

It has links to ID laws, voting rights by state, and a hotline to call if you have problems at the polls. Never leave without either voting, or calling hotlines for help.

If you never got your absentee ballot, you can often talk to a supervisor at the polls, and have the absentee ballot looked up and struck off, so that your in-person ballot doesn't have to be provisional. This was what the Virginia voting office told me FWIW.


Piggybacking on this good comment to make some obnoxious commentary.

Voting in America? Bring a copy of your state's ID laws, know how to recognize violent demonstrators and when to report them, stand six feet apart from any stranger lest you catch their deadly diseases, know your new polling place location since so many have closed, and prepare to wait up to three hours.
 
2020-10-27 1:40:59 PM  

Clockwork Kumquat: I'm taking Nov. 3 as a vacation day. Probably should have asked for Nov. 4 as well, but so far this year my sups have been pretty reasonable about allowing for unrest-related transit issues.


I took the 4th, not the 3rd. Need to keep my mind occupied that day.
 
2020-10-27 1:55:54 PM  
Driving for 6-10 hours seems a lot more cost effective than flying for $750 each way. Even with missed workdays (whoever even has work).
 
2020-10-27 1:56:23 PM  

Ant: We need compulsory voting. Try you voter suppression crap when voting is mandatory, assholes. Charge anyone trying this suppression and discouragement shiat with a felony.


Pretty sure compulsory voting would violate the first amendment. You can't have the government punish people for choosing not to speak. 

Make sure you include the proper text to nullify the first amendment, at least in the specific instance of voting in elections so it can't be abused, in your constitutional amendment to make voting compulsory. Otherwise, any such law will violate the constitution.

I'm not necessarily against compulsory voting, if an only if there are some safeguards in place:
1.) voting needs to be made as easy as possible for EVERYONE, otherwise compulsory voting just becomes another way of punishing the poor or marginalized communities, because you can make it difficult for them to vote and then punish them for not voting
2.) voting needs to include a *meaningful* "None of the above" option, such that candidates must not only get more votes than each other but more votes than that option. Any election in which "none of the above" has more votes than the candidates (even if it's a 34%/33%/33% split) must be re-run with different candidates.
3.) As mentioned, anyone who interferes needs to be punished, regardless of wealth, power, and position in government. Suitable punishment is left as an exercise for the reader. ;)

There are probably more, but off the top of my head, compulsory voting would need to include at least that.
 
2020-10-27 2:02:31 PM  

suebhoney: JohnnyApocalypse: If you are marked as getting a mail-in ballot, but then vote in person, you are given a provisional ballot. Provisional ballots are always counted last, and this will likely be Trump's avenue of contesting vote counts. Delaying the mail for ballots to arrive may be specifically a design to increase the count of provisional ballots.

Provisional ballots are cast in two cases:
1. the above, designated to get a mail-in ballot, but then voting in person... it's provisional to ensure you didn't also vote by mail-in, and
2. if you arrive to vote but you aren't on the rolls for that voting precinct. This might happen because you're voting in the wrong precinct, or you were not on the voter rolls, being purged for some reason (valid or otherwise).

In every case of a provisional ballot, it's a flag that things might not be on the up and up, so poll workers need to track down the voter's information to be sure they should legitimately able to vote, and they haven't voted twice. So a "provisional ballot" is a "problematic ballot". Those are the ones that Trump and various secretaries of state will go after to limit or throw out.

In PA if you requested a mail in ballot, but then decide to vote in person, you must take the mail in ballot and BOTH envelopes to your polling and turn them all in before they will let you vote. A provisional ballot doesn't come into play. However, not a lot of folks know about this rule, and if they just throw away their mail in ballot without checking on the rules, they won't be allowed to vote at all.

Please, if you live in PA, make sure everyone you know are aware of the rules. Ty.


Yes, I failed to articulate that correctly... if you are designated as mail-in, vote in person, and DON'T bring your unmarked mail-in, then you get the provisional ballot (I guess this depends upon state, whether you get a provisional or not, some don't allow it at all? Pennsylvania?). If you arrive with a filled out mail-in ballot, I believe you are allowed to turn it in there? Again, may be a state by state case. If you arrive with your mail-in, but it's not filled out, you can then vote (state by state rules allowing).
 
2020-10-27 2:23:19 PM  

Ant: We need compulsory voting. Try you voter suppression crap when voting is mandatory, assholes. Charge anyone trying this suppression and discouragement shiat with a felony.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-27 2:27:45 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: suebhoney: JohnnyApocalypse: If you are marked as getting a mail-in ballot, but then vote in person, you are given a provisional ballot. Provisional ballots are always counted last, and this will likely be Trump's avenue of contesting vote counts. Delaying the mail for ballots to arrive may be specifically a design to increase the count of provisional ballots.

Provisional ballots are cast in two cases:
1. the above, designated to get a mail-in ballot, but then voting in person... it's provisional to ensure you didn't also vote by mail-in, and
2. if you arrive to vote but you aren't on the rolls for that voting precinct. This might happen because you're voting in the wrong precinct, or you were not on the voter rolls, being purged for some reason (valid or otherwise).

In every case of a provisional ballot, it's a flag that things might not be on the up and up, so poll workers need to track down the voter's information to be sure they should legitimately able to vote, and they haven't voted twice. So a "provisional ballot" is a "problematic ballot". Those are the ones that Trump and various secretaries of state will go after to limit or throw out.

In PA if you requested a mail in ballot, but then decide to vote in person, you must take the mail in ballot and BOTH envelopes to your polling and turn them all in before they will let you vote. A provisional ballot doesn't come into play. However, not a lot of folks know about this rule, and if they just throw away their mail in ballot without checking on the rules, they won't be allowed to vote at all.

Please, if you live in PA, make sure everyone you know are aware of the rules. Ty.

Yes, I failed to articulate that correctly... if you are designated as mail-in, vote in person, and DON'T bring your unmarked mail-in, then you get the provisional ballot (I guess this depends upon state, whether you get a provisional or not, some don't allow it at all? Pennsylvania?). If you arrive with a filled out mail-in ballot, I believe you are allowed to turn it in there? Again, may be a state by state case. If you arrive with your mail-in, but it's not filled out, you can then vote (state by state rules allowing).


It's always best to send the voter to their state's rules so no ambiguity comes into it.

This is exactly why america should have standardized ballots and rules for voting.

50 different sets of rules doesn't work well anymore.
 
2020-10-27 3:53:55 PM  

suebhoney: JohnnyApocalypse: If you are marked as getting a mail-in ballot, but then vote in person, you are given a provisional ballot. Provisional ballots are always counted last, and this will likely be Trump's avenue of contesting vote counts. Delaying the mail for ballots to arrive may be specifically a design to increase the count of provisional ballots.

Provisional ballots are cast in two cases:
1. the above, designated to get a mail-in ballot, but then voting in person... it's provisional to ensure you didn't also vote by mail-in, and
2. if you arrive to vote but you aren't on the rolls for that voting precinct. This might happen because you're voting in the wrong precinct, or you were not on the voter rolls, being purged for some reason (valid or otherwise).

In every case of a provisional ballot, it's a flag that things might not be on the up and up, so poll workers need to track down the voter's information to be sure they should legitimately able to vote, and they haven't voted twice. So a "provisional ballot" is a "problematic ballot". Those are the ones that Trump and various secretaries of state will go after to limit or throw out.

In PA if you requested a mail in ballot, but then decide to vote in person, you must take the mail in ballot and BOTH envelopes to your polling and turn them all in before they will let you vote. A provisional ballot doesn't come into play. However, not a lot of folks know about this rule, and if they just throw away their mail in ballot without checking on the rules, they won't be allowed to vote at all.

Please, if you live in PA, make sure everyone you know are aware of the rules. Ty.


Because of all the post office shenanigans, I'm glad this is wrong. PA has provisional ballots if a voter is missing their mail-in ballot: https://www.votespa.com/Votin​g-in-PA/P​ages/Mail-and-Absentee-Ballot.aspx
 
2020-10-27 5:18:43 PM  

Fhydra: suebhoney: JohnnyApocalypse: If you are marked as getting a mail-in ballot, but then vote in person, you are given a provisional ballot. Provisional ballots are always counted last, and this will likely be Trump's avenue of contesting vote counts. Delaying the mail for ballots to arrive may be specifically a design to increase the count of provisional ballots.

Provisional ballots are cast in two cases:
1. the above, designated to get a mail-in ballot, but then voting in person... it's provisional to ensure you didn't also vote by mail-in, and
2. if you arrive to vote but you aren't on the rolls for that voting precinct. This might happen because you're voting in the wrong precinct, or you were not on the voter rolls, being purged for some reason (valid or otherwise).

In every case of a provisional ballot, it's a flag that things might not be on the up and up, so poll workers need to track down the voter's information to be sure they should legitimately able to vote, and they haven't voted twice. So a "provisional ballot" is a "problematic ballot". Those are the ones that Trump and various secretaries of state will go after to limit or throw out.

In PA if you requested a mail in ballot, but then decide to vote in person, you must take the mail in ballot and BOTH envelopes to your polling and turn them all in before they will let you vote. A provisional ballot doesn't come into play. However, not a lot of folks know about this rule, and if they just throw away their mail in ballot without checking on the rules, they won't be allowed to vote at all.

Please, if you live in PA, make sure everyone you know are aware of the rules. Ty.

Because of all the post office shenanigans, I'm glad this is wrong. PA has provisional ballots if a voter is missing their mail-in ballot: https://www.votespa.com/Voting​-in-PA/Pages/Mail-and-Absentee-Ballot.​aspx


THANK YOU for the correction!!! I'll make sure to tell those ive been wrong and point them there.

Seriously, thank you!!
 
2020-10-27 5:19:46 PM  

Suibian: I'm in Virginia. Registered in a blue city district.

I applied for an absentee ballot in August, never received one. Called about it, and they said it was sent out to my apartment.

Since I've been spending some time in the Appalachians, I will now be driving six hours -- each way -- to go early vote in person in my precinct. Worth it.


Virginia voter here, too. I got my absentee ballot in early/mid September, filled it out and mailed it back a week later. Called the local Board of Elections yesterday to verify it had been received and would be counted. After waiting about 20 minutes on the phone, I talked to an actual human being who checked the ballot against my SSN and confirmed that all was well.

However, the only thing is, it was marked as having been received on October 21st. For a ballot mailed approximately one whole month earlier. There's definitely something hinky going on with how the post office is handling mail-in ballots. Geez, I send packages to friends in Florida and Oregon that arrive in three to four days, though they are thousands of miles away. But it took my ballot almost a full four weeks to be delivered to the Board of Elections that's no more than 10 miles from my house. Geez, I'd have just driven it to the drop-box if I'd known it would take that long to get there. .
 
2020-10-27 8:06:53 PM  
I drove 13 hours on ice Saturday to get home and fill out my ballot. Dropped it off and drove back to work so I'm getting a kick.
 
2020-10-27 8:45:35 PM  

mamoru: Pretty sure compulsory voting would violate the first amendment. You can't have the government punish people for choosing not to speak.


Voting is not merely speaking, though. Voting is an action. Voting is a right in itself. The ballot is not an opinion. the ballot is a directive to the state, which the state needs in order to be representative. That's different than representing one's own opinion.
 
2020-10-27 8:56:53 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: mamoru: Pretty sure compulsory voting would violate the first amendment. You can't have the government punish people for choosing not to speak.

Voting is not merely speaking, though. Voting is an action. Voting is a right in itself. The ballot is not an opinion. the ballot is a directive to the state, which the state needs in order to be representative. That's different than representing one's own opinion.


I'm no legal scholar, or as the kids like to say I ANAL (wait, what?), but that doesn't sound like a significant enough distinction from the legal notion of "speech" to bypass the first amendment. 

Perhaps some folks around here with a GED in Constitutional Law would like to chime in? 

Anyway, it's questionable enough that if a law to make voting compulsory were ever on the table, much less passed, it would be immediately challenged and appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court, and given the current state of the supreme court, I wouldn't bet on any law encouraging more voting not getting struck down.
 
2020-10-28 5:16:37 PM  

RyansPrivates: Clockwork Kumquat: I'm taking Nov. 3 as a vacation day. Probably should have asked for Nov. 4 as well, but so far this year my sups have been pretty reasonable about allowing for unrest-related transit issues.

I took the 4th, not the 3rd. Need to keep my mind occupied that day.


I'm voting in person. If I worked on the day, I probably wouldn't get to the polling place until around 6:30.
 
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