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(Slate)   "I've had to give up on my dream goal of getting a Ph.D. because my wife can't handle parenting our children by herself. Is that really fair?"   (slate.com) divider line
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405 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 27 Oct 2020 at 8:55 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-26 11:03:22 PM  
LOL! My wife just got hers and I handled the kids just fine so I get a kick out of...
 
2020-10-26 11:51:57 PM  
this woman is your wife, not a difficult co-worker, and thinking of her as a vampire is not going to help your marriage any.

Don't knock what you haven't tried, Prudie
 
2020-10-26 11:53:08 PM  
Oh, I forgot:  change your field of study.  Ph.D in butt stuff
 
2020-10-27 12:05:34 AM  
You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.
 
2020-10-27 12:36:31 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.


Meh.  As part of a family with way, way too many degrees, kids are possible while getting degrees.  It isn't fun, or easy, but it can be done.  It requires a bunch of dedication, sacrifice, and cooperation, but it can be done.
 
2020-10-27 12:47:34 AM  
Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?
 
2020-10-27 12:52:16 AM  
Sounds like a white people problem. White babies go for a fortune in child-trafficking markets, I'm told. Cash in.
 
2020-10-27 1:03:05 AM  
Getting a PhD can be a relatively easy thing if you manage your time well. On the other hand, many people become self-absorbed self-important aholes that try to sell that they are in the midst of some great intellectual achievement.

Now if you dodn't pick your advisor well, you might find one that thinks they can work you 80 hours per week but that's your mistake, not your wife's.

Ultimately, you should be able to spend lots of time with your kids, making meals, doing the laundry and half of the housework and still reading your kids a bedtime story most nights. Just make sure they have a reasonable bed tie and then you'll have 4 hours or more to do reading and writing in the evening. Just don't expect more than 5 hours of sleep as you pursue your "dream".
 
2020-10-27 1:13:21 AM  

wademh: Getting a PhD can be a relatively easy thing if you manage your time well. On the other hand, many people become self-absorbed self-important aholes that try to sell that they are in the midst of some great intellectual achievement.

Now if you dodn't pick your advisor well, you might find one that thinks they can work you 80 hours per week but that's your mistake, not your wife's.

Ultimately, you should be able to spend lots of time with your kids, making meals, doing the laundry and half of the housework and still reading your kids a bedtime story most nights. Just make sure they have a reasonable bed tie and then you'll have 4 hours or more to do reading and writing in the evening. Just don't expect more than 5 hours of sleep as you pursue your "dream".


Fark user imageView Full Size

?

Seems a little extreme, but you sound like you know what you are talking about.
 
2020-10-27 1:21:31 AM  

sennoma: Marcus Aurelius: You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.

Meh.  As part of a family with way, way too many degrees, kids are possible while getting degrees.  It isn't fun, or easy, but it can be done.  It requires a bunch of dedication, sacrifice, and cooperation, but it can be done.


Yep.

/in 2nd semester of PhD
/my husband is a farking amazing support - I couldn't do it without him
 
2020-10-27 1:47:10 AM  

tudorgurl: sennoma: Marcus Aurelius: You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.

Meh.  As part of a family with way, way too many degrees, kids are possible while getting degrees.  It isn't fun, or easy, but it can be done.  It requires a bunch of dedication, sacrifice, and cooperation, but it can be done.

Yep.

/in 2nd semester of PhD
/my husband is a farking amazing support - I couldn't do it without him


Great for you.  *elbow bump*

My wife got her MBA while pregnant, and her PhD after.  It's an... urm... "character building" experience, but if everyone is aligned on family goals and focused on how to make things work, it's just "difficult", and not impossible.  Assuming the longer term goals are thought out, discussed, and agreed on, it can mean meaningful jobs, a wonderful family, and a strong partnership in marriage.   ~15+ years on, that's where I (luckily) am.  I wish the same for you!
 
2020-10-27 3:34:00 AM  
I got my master's while my daughter was an infant. It meant going days without sleep and I think it permanently damaged my mind. It also happens to be when I got my Fark account.
 
2020-10-27 4:06:23 AM  
no. You are just weak.
 
2020-10-27 4:20:46 AM  
It's possible to get a doctorate and help with the kids. Don't be lazy.
 
2020-10-27 5:10:20 AM  
Did I ask for fries with that?
 
2020-10-27 6:22:27 AM  
My sister earned her masters and she has two kids and a husband who works offshore for weeks at a time. And, everyone knows your masters is harder than you phd.
 
2020-10-27 6:31:21 AM  
Go make me a sammich
 
2020-10-27 8:48:44 AM  
Dream goal? There are dreams and there are goals. A dream goal is still a dream. A goal dream is when you really have control of your sleep patterns.
 
2020-10-27 9:06:15 AM  
My first few years were spent being raised by Mommy because Daddy was locked away down in the basement studying for his MBA. She never forgave him for 'abandoning' her during the worst parts of child rearing and they divorced a decade later.

For the time being you still have the choice when to have kids (though that will probably change thanks to our new Supreme Court.) You need to have any "you" things off your plate by the time the kids come, because from that point on "you" don't matter any more.

Deciding to take on huge projects with open-ended time commitments while you have a kid on the way is selfish. Get your degree first, and raise your farking kids.
 
2020-10-27 9:09:26 AM  
I had a dream goat once. Then I travelled the world
 
2020-10-27 9:28:59 AM  
No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.
 
2020-10-27 9:48:26 AM  

kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.


Speaking as a Ph.D. I think this is the funniest thing I've read on the interweb in ages.
 
2020-10-27 9:55:59 AM  

kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.


You can tell right away when someone has gotten a Ph.D. to shore up their own feelings of inadequacy, and it never seems to engender any respect, in my circles, anyway.  Quite the opposite.
 
2020-10-27 9:56:22 AM  
For years Mrs Scarf would plan way too much for a given amount of time or take on projects too big or way beyond her abilities.  It became a real problem, especially once the scarfettes arrived. a kiddo's birthday party that grew exponentially from the submitter letter is a prime example. Finally i decided to stop bailing her out but the trick it to do it in a way that doesn't make you the lazy, unhelpful slob of a husband.

Mrs. Scarf : So i know we talked about X but i want to add in A-F and Q and Z.
Me: OK but there are a bunch of other things we need to get done that weekend.  I'll take on the other stuff but you'll need to handle your plan yourself.  Is that OK, because it sounds like you've planned quite a bit for not a ton of time?
Mrs. Scarf: Yes, so long as you take care of everything else.

Cut to the event.  X and A and B are done but nothing else, she has run herself ragged and is frustrated that it didn't turn out like the fairy tale she imagined.  Five or six times of that and she's learned to reign things in a bit and sometimes, just sometimes, listen when i suggest that maybe you can't cramp 40hours worth of work into 6 hours of time.

\not always
\\still got blamed for not being supportive enough at times
\\\your mileage will vary.
 
2020-10-27 9:58:08 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.

Speaking as a Ph.D. I think this is the funniest thing I've read on the interweb in ages.


^ This is the proper way to have a Ph.D.  No one knows you have a Ph.D.

/marks down GH as having a PhD
//watches him closely
 
2020-10-27 10:04:20 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.


This. If I look at my old department the faculty fall into two categories: 1) Had kids AFTER grad school; and 2) Didn't have kids.

I left academia 15 years ago but at the time the trend among most younger faculty was to not have kids. By the time you finish grad school, do two (sometimes more) post docs, find a position and get established enough where you can afford kids, you're in your 40s in most cases.
 
2020-10-27 10:10:40 AM  
No buddy, that's life.
 
2020-10-27 10:21:33 AM  
Obviously fake.   It sets the sides up too perfectly for internet rage click battle!

Team A: Team Control Freak, with lazy spouses who just won't listen to them, no matter how much we lecture them like children.  Team B: Team point and laugh at the poor widdle guy who can't manage to get through school without being catered to in every possibly aspect of their life.

Let them fight.
 
2020-10-27 10:23:58 AM  
Yes, it can be done, but at what price?  If you don't think that your kids are paying the price for your schoolwork, you are wrong.  I am not saying that you are ruining their lives, but thinking you can be there for them in a big way is not possible if you are studying and doing schoolwork all the time.  How about finish schooling and then have kids, or have kids and wait until they are older to go back to school.  Kids are more important than your education and your income.  And kids grow up faster than you can imagine.
 
2020-10-27 10:26:24 AM  
My wife finished her MSW while planning our wedding, and lobbying to change the state's Mandated Reporter law, as well as assisting with rewriting the state's juvenile justice code.

I was finishing my degree, and working 40-60 hours a week at the time. No kids at that point though.
 
2020-10-27 10:30:55 AM  
General comment - it depends on the field, project, and host Uni/college.

The more cutthroat/time-sensitive/cutting-edge the field/project, the less forgiving it is for absences, paid or unpaid: a decrease in production has a serious impact on grant renewals and, where relevant, tenure decisions - especially in the US. If you're in a large research group, often your colleagues can take up the "slack" research wise, such that the group's overall production keeps up and you get data and support. In a small group, i.e. you and your supervisor, that could be a project dead in the water if either of you take a leave of absence.

Here in Northern Europe, parental leave is generous but not infinite and funding agencies/universities bake in leaves of absence into project reviews and financial extensions, i.e., the project & funding is extended by the length of the leave of absence, and funding agencies are a little more forgiving. However, at the end of the day, they use the same metrics (h/i-factors, etc) to judge proposals, and if you haven't been productive, then your proposal will have a hard time against others which have been.

However, there are advanced degree programs which are geared to part-time study, so if you do have PhD ambitions but have serious constraints: kids, care-giving, a job, I would look into such opportunities.
 
2020-10-27 10:38:28 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Glockenspiel Hero: kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.

Speaking as a Ph.D. I think this is the funniest thing I've read on the interweb in ages.

^ This is the proper way to have a Ph.D.  No one knows you have a Ph.D.

/marks down GH as having a PhD
//watches him closely


Chemistry Ph.D., so
<SMOKEBOMB>

/Can't see me now...
 
2020-10-27 10:42:44 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.

You can tell right away when someone has gotten a Ph.D. to shore up their own feelings of inadequacy, and it never seems to engender any respect, in my circles, anyway.  Quite the opposite.


They usually insist on being called Dr. Y/Dr. X Y, and write their name Dr. X Y, Ph.D.
 
2020-10-27 10:48:48 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I had a dream goat once. Then I travelled the world


What happened to the goat?
 
2020-10-27 10:49:18 AM  

Tyrosine: Marcus Aurelius: You don't dream of getting a PhD and then go having a child.  It doesn't work that way.  One dream at a time is required here.

This. If I look at my old department the faculty fall into two categories: 1) Had kids AFTER grad school; and 2) Didn't have kids.

I left academia 15 years ago but at the time the trend among most younger faculty was to not have kids. By the time you finish grad school, do two (sometimes more) post docs, find a position and get established enough where you can afford kids, you're in your 40s in most cases.


The first 4 students my advisor had all had kids. Two of the women had a second kid while in grad school. All of us had worked between being an undergrad and starting grad school. We all finished in under the average time for our department and it was one of the top ranked departments in the US by level of NIH funding.

We did our work, sometimes we would be there in the middle of the night but mostly we just didn't waste time. Our spouses did have to cover for us at times but we were free to cover for them as often.

It's true that some faculty disapproved of us not being monks or nuns and otherwise sacrificing our lives to be part of the academic world. They were the sort who felt you shouldn't have kids until you get tenure. They are narrow-minded idiots who just want to make others fall in lockstep to their own choices.

They key is to be an adult about things. For some of us, having kids gave us perspective, something lacking in many of our fellow grad students that were extremely self-focused, and not in a healthy way.
 
2020-10-27 10:51:29 AM  

palelizard: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I had a dream goat once. Then I travelled the world

What happened to the goat?


1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-27 11:08:05 AM  

Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?


These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.
 
2020-10-27 11:24:12 AM  
You're working on your phD with kids?

Why would you do that to yourself?  Seems like a lack of planning on your part.

But It's ok, you can always just blame your partner for all your self inflicted problems.  I'm sure that will lead to long-term bliss.
 
2020-10-27 11:43:09 AM  

Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.


Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.
 
2020-10-27 11:43:50 AM  
I've been to plenty of conferences and listened to guys like this whinging about x, y, and z keeping them from working on their dissertations or publishing. There's always some excuse.

My bet? The letter writer is never gonna finish that dissertation.
 
2020-10-27 11:49:39 AM  

Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.

Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.


I'm serious. That is not healthy thinking. There is ALWAYS economic and social upheaval. It will NEVER be just the right time to have a kid. It will have its ups and downs, but it's a rewarding experience.
 
2020-10-27 12:17:54 PM  

Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.

Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.

I'm serious. That is not healthy thinking. There is ALWAYS economic and social upheaval. It will NEVER be just the right time to have a kid. It will have its ups and downs, but it's a rewarding experience.


Since my vasectomy just turned 10, I'll take your word for it.

But seriously, try not to have a child during a pandemic. There may not be a right time, but there is definitely a wrong time. And maybe we'd have less social upheaval if people waited until they could support kids to have them.

I'm not saying no one should have kids. I'm just saying that putting a little thought into the situation you're bringing the child into is probably a good thing.
 
2020-10-27 12:22:00 PM  

Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.

Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.

I'm serious. That is not healthy thinking. There is ALWAYS economic and social upheaval. It will NEVER be just the right time to have a kid. It will have its ups and downs, but it's a rewarding experience.

Since my vasectomy just turned 10, I'll take your word for it.

But seriously, try not to have a child during a pandemic. There may not be a right time, but there is definitely a wrong time. And maybe we'd have less social upheaval if people waited until they could support kids to have them.

I'm not saying no one should have kids. I'm just saying that putting a little thought into the situation you're bringing the child into is probably a good thing.


Depression. It's depression of some kind. Get it checked out. It's been on the rise because of the pandemic.
 
2020-10-27 12:41:29 PM  
1) Doctor Doctor, Give Me The News: This is very simple you can control you.  Book your damn school time and stick to it.  If she tries to steal you away, then tell her to FRO.

2) Mama's Gonna Make All Of Your Nightmares Come True: Why do you still maintain contact with this person?  Tell her to FRO and never speak to her again.

3) You're Sort Of Everything I Ever Wanted: Ah, the question of what wishlist items you are willing to go without in a relationship.  One would think the genitals or your partner would be important so given that, I say DTMFA.

4) Ooh, I'd Like To Go Back One Time On A Roller Coaster Ride: So in short she wants you to have the same relationship with her family that you do with her.  This is a completely understandable feeling.  And if it's not there, you farking well had best either tell her or just STFU and live with it.

5) Oh, You Just Keep On Using Me Until You Use Me Up: As long as everyone is in agreement about the terms of this interaction, enjoy it.

6) Okay, So No One's Answering.  Well, Can't You Just Let It Ring A Little Longer?: STFU and GTHOI.

7 & 8) Doctor, Doctor II & III: Part of setting up a schedule would also require a deeper understanding of what the household chore situation is which we don't have.  This may mean scaling back on meals, more kits maybe more takeout.  Maybe even hiring someone to come clean the house.  He said he makes good money, so that would seem viable.  They have options.

9) Good Enough For Now II: We both know the original LW is going to have to settle in some ways for a relationship.  I'm thinking, though, that sex of their partner is a pretty big one to overcome.  I stand by DTMFA.

10) Like A Virgin (Classic): I would say get thee to therapy.  But in a sense about potential romantic partner, I favor full disclosure.
 
2020-10-27 1:16:22 PM  
article: 'She plans extravagant weekend activities like planting raspberry bushes'

OMG, planting raspberries !
 
2020-10-27 1:23:55 PM  

palelizard: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I had a dream goat once. Then I travelled the world

What happened to the goat?


Turns out it was just an escape goat
 
2020-10-27 1:38:13 PM  

Mr_Vimes: Marcus Aurelius: kdawg7736: No it is not. A Ph.D. is a dream to many people that gets you lots of respect.

You can tell right away when someone has gotten a Ph.D. to shore up their own feelings of inadequacy, and it never seems to engender any respect, in my circles, anyway.  Quite the opposite.

They usually insist on being called Dr. Y/Dr. X Y, and write their name Dr. X Y, Ph.D.


Yup. I work with one of those, who also happened to work at the space agency once. He's a moron in procurement now. We call him lots of names, but the leading two see to be "the farking rocket scientist" and "doctor useless"
 
2020-10-27 2:53:49 PM  

Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.

Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.

I'm serious. That is not healthy thinking. There is ALWAYS economic and social upheaval. It will NEVER be just the right time to have a kid. It will have its ups and downs, but it's a rewarding experience.

Since my vasectomy just turned 10, I'll take your word for it.

But seriously, try not to have a child during a pandemic. There may not be a right time, but there is definitely a wrong time. And maybe we'd have less social upheaval if people waited until they could support kids to have them.

I'm not saying no one should have kids. I'm just saying that putting a little thought into the situation you're bringing the child into is probably a good thing.

Depression. It's depression of some kind. Get it checked out. It's been on the rise because of the pandemic.


No, its sensible.  For most people, making new little people during a pandemic is idiotic.
 
2020-10-27 6:23:24 PM  

wademh: Getting a PhD can be a relatively easy thing if you manage your time well. On the other hand, many people become self-absorbed self-important aholes that try to sell that they are in the midst of some great intellectual achievement.

Now if you dodn't pick your advisor well, you might find one that thinks they can work you 80 hours per week but that's your mistake, not your wife's.

Ultimately, you should be able to spend lots of time with your kids, making meals, doing the laundry and half of the housework and still reading your kids a bedtime story most nights. Just make sure they have a reasonable bed tie and then you'll have 4 hours or more to do reading and writing in the evening. Just don't expect more than 5 hours of sleep as you pursue your "dream".


No! Getting only five hours of sleep per night is terrible for your health, emotional regulation, and will make it much harder to retain anything you've learned. Especially in the middle of a pandemic, it's really important to get enough sleep. Lots of people think they can manage on little sleep, but it's actually completely obvious to people around them.

And yes, I say this as someone who worked while getting my degree and hardly ever slept. It's terrible for you.
 
2020-10-27 6:29:11 PM  

Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Russ1642: Natalie Portmanteau: Who the hell looks at the world today and thinks... "yeah, this... this is the time to have a child"?

These are the words of a suicidal person. There's help available.

Thinking it's not smart to have a child in times of economic and social upheaval (and a pandemic) is a sign of being suicidal?

Well, shiat.

I'm serious. That is not healthy thinking. There is ALWAYS economic and social upheaval. It will NEVER be just the right time to have a kid. It will have its ups and downs, but it's a rewarding experience.

Since my vasectomy just turned 10, I'll take your word for it.

But seriously, try not to have a child during a pandemic. There may not be a right time, but there is definitely a wrong time. And maybe we'd have less social upheaval if people waited until they could support kids to have them.

I'm not saying no one should have kids. I'm just saying that putting a little thought into the situation you're bringing the child into is probably a good thing.

Depression. It's depression of some kind. Get it checked out. It's been on the rise because of the pandemic.


As someone who does suffer from clinical depression (and is taking the prescribed meds to prove it) I'd love to know exactly how you achieve the state of delusion that you are enjoying, because even though your grasp on reality may be tenuous, clearly it is healthier for you as an individual.

Incidentally, this is how I see you:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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