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(CNBC)   Experts warning of impending exponential spread of Covid across US. Or in terms the US can grasp, it gonna get real bad, yo   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious  
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3557 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 26 Oct 2020 at 10:55 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-10-26 10:45:27 AM  
71 votes:

Ambivalence: And the federally government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.


Trump is tired of COVID.  It simply does not respond to threats or intimidation or harsh language.  So there's simply no way to fight it.  You understand how it is.  They tried nothing, and they're out of ideas.
 
2020-10-26 10:39:24 AM  
65 votes:
And the federally government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.
 
2020-10-26 10:38:02 AM  
50 votes:
The engine of destruction is actively undermining doctors, data, and anything remotely like best practices.
 
2020-10-26 10:47:20 AM  
44 votes:
Republicans announcing that they don't care if people live or die and crashing the economy is their goal. Republicans not even voting on Covid relief shows they want the US to burn. Republicans truly are POS.
 
2020-10-26 11:02:51 AM  
36 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size


I wish I could say confidently where we are on this chart.
 
2020-10-26 10:57:06 AM  
36 votes:

NewportBarGuy: eurotrader: Republicans announcing that they don't care if people live or die and crashing the economy is their goal. Republicans not even voting on Covid relief shows they want the US to burn. Republicans truly are POS.

*as the entire country burns to the ground behind them*

"At least we got our tax cuts!"


That's not too far from the truth.
This should be a lesson in why we cannot trust Corporations and the wealthy now that they've captured the Government. All policies are policies that are designed to help them, not us, not anyone else. And they will never willingly give up that power.
 
2020-10-26 10:42:07 AM  
35 votes:
We have a government that actively don't want to govern.
 
2020-10-26 10:43:30 AM  
28 votes:
I should buy some toilet paper.
newmediarockstars.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 10:48:43 AM  
22 votes:

eurotrader: Republicans announcing that they don't care if people live or die and crashing the economy is their goal. Republicans not even voting on Covid relief shows they want the US to burn. Republicans truly are POS.


*as the entire country burns to the ground behind them*

"At least we got our tax cuts!"
 
2020-10-26 11:01:06 AM  
20 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.
 
2020-10-26 11:04:43 AM  
19 votes:
Those 15 cases definitely went to zero.

2020 is the year 43% of America took a shiat on the floor, rolled around in it, and acted like everything was great. Hopefully the rest of us decide that we want better for ourselves.
 
2020-10-26 11:00:08 AM  
17 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Fark user imageView Full Size


'Socialism'
 
2020-10-26 10:59:52 AM  
16 votes:

Nadie_AZ: NewportBarGuy: eurotrader: Republicans announcing that they don't care if people live or die and crashing the economy is their goal. Republicans not even voting on Covid relief shows they want the US to burn. Republicans truly are POS.

*as the entire country burns to the ground behind them*

"At least we got our tax cuts!"

That's not too far from the truth.
This should be a lesson in why we cannot trust Corporations and the wealthy now that they've captured the Government. All policies are policies that are designed to help them, not us, not anyone else. And they will never willingly give up that power.


I just wish we could do what Germany does where the businesses and the government work together to train people, pay them well and everyone makes good money.

Not going to happen in my lifetime if ever.
 
2020-10-26 10:59:27 AM  
16 votes:
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:04:26 AM  
15 votes:

40 degree day: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.


I would like to see a breakdown by country or response type.  I'm confident that there is at least one country that isn't doing squat which is skewing the data for the overall line on the graph.
 
2020-10-26 10:56:56 AM  
15 votes:

koder: We're "going herd" until Trump is removed.


In a herd, culling the cause of harm is a good practice.
 
2020-10-26 11:14:01 AM  
14 votes:

Irving Maimway: We have a government that actively don't want to govern.


No, we have a government that actively avoids governing.
 
2020-10-26 11:07:14 AM  
14 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Well, that's their second wave, which was expected.  We're still on our first, and the inevitable second wave is going to pile right on top of it, especially with Dotard holding his superspreader rallies and millions of Americans being steadfast in their stupidity.

Just in time for the holidays, family members are gonna die!
 
2020-10-26 10:42:37 AM  
14 votes:
Might be time to steal a yacht and flee to a small pacific island.
 
2020-10-26 11:01:53 AM  
13 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 10:54:35 AM  
12 votes:
We're "going herd" until Trump is removed.
 
2020-10-26 12:46:04 PM  
11 votes:
Our best hope was COVID killing Trump.  His survival was a big blow to our chances to survive.  Even the election won't matter, as we'll hit 500,000 dead before Biden takes over in January.

Elections have consequences.  And there aren't any abortions if the mom dies first.
 
2020-10-26 11:09:51 AM  
11 votes:
All you have to do is go to the comments section of any news page or governor's page on FB.

Goobers.

Goobers everywhere.
 
2020-10-26 11:05:05 AM  
11 votes:

TheSubjunctive: [Fark user image 500x253]

I wish I could say confidently where we are on this chart.


We never had that first downslope, it's possible we're still just approaching that first peak.
 
2020-10-26 11:57:07 AM  
10 votes:
Let's see who's not doing their job, besides Trump.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:06:15 AM  
10 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: TheSubjunctive: [Fark user image 500x253]

I wish I could say confidently where we are on this chart.

We never had that first downslope, it's possible we're still just approaching that first peak.


Wherever we are on the chart, we're screwed.
 
2020-10-26 11:39:40 AM  
9 votes:
It didn't have to be this way.  If that son of a biatch trump and his MAGAt followers hadn't shoved the pandemic response plan up their collective asses, if the narcissistic addicts who insisted on continuing to go to bars, who refused to do something so simple as wear a farking mask, who insisted that "it's no worse than a flu" hadn't been such shiatfarks, a lot of those 225+ thousand people would still be alive.
 
2020-10-26 11:17:20 AM  
9 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


27 nations with a combined population of 446M have 120K cases (27 per 100,000), while the US has a population of 328M and has 60K (18.3 per 100,000).

ON OCT 22.

Bless your heart, you red-headed stepchild.  Let's revisit that graph in 2 weeks, shall we?
 
2020-10-26 11:10:45 AM  
9 votes:
Of all the scenarios the government has run, the only one they didn't think about was a complete lack of leadership from the top. Everyone assumed that it would never happen.
 
2020-10-26 11:46:42 AM  
8 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:16:04 AM  
8 votes:

CarnySaur: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

So it looks like we're going to be spiking like that imminently, followed by yet another wave that they didn't get.  Great.


Note that his graph states cases by number - and there are 443 million people in the EU.
 
2020-10-26 11:07:11 AM  
8 votes:

eurotrader: Republicans announcing that they don't care if people live or die and crashing the economy is their goal. Republicans not even voting on Covid relief shows they want the US to burn. Republicans truly are POS.


The majority of Rep. Senate thinks they can crash and burn America and walk off with a loot bag of cash out of the country. That is antithetical to the role of public servant for which they were elected.
 
2020-10-26 2:52:21 PM  
7 votes:

geggam: If every individual took personal responsibility the collective would be fine.  This idea you need to be told what to do is infantile 

Fix your own house before you worry about others.


Except it's the people saying shiat like you've said in this thread that's making us unable to fix our house. You're the ones making sure the US has the worst response possible to this virus.
 
2020-10-26 1:47:00 PM  
7 votes:

cartersdad: I am perplexed as we try this and that and it doesn't work.  and no one talks about the other harmful effects.

Case in point, my best friend lost his job and was stuck trying to pay bills.  I was helping him out and he kept promising to pay me back (which wasn't a huge worry).  so he called and told me he pulled his pension out and I got paid back a big chunk.

That night he OD'd.


What exactly was tried? We didn't even shut down, we had no follow up, no testing strategy, nothing. I'm sorry your friend OD'd, ask why your elected officials didn't do anything with the time they were given.
 
2020-10-26 12:29:54 PM  
7 votes:

Olliewog: Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.


Fark user imageView Full Size


This is a decent overview. The second peak of "daily cases" appears much larger than the first one, but the number of hospitalizations were about the same. This suggests that the first peak of the reported cases was artificially low due to limited testing. There is some increase in testing from the second to the third peak, but it's a smaller ratio this time.

The death rate has gone down over time. Some of that is from improved treatment, but some of it could also be from a shift in the average age of the cases (since the fatality rate goes way up in older populations). Deaths are a lagging indicator so it will take a while to see how high the third peak goes.
 
2020-10-26 11:40:10 AM  
7 votes:

Eightballjacket: dkulprit: BizarreMan: 40 degree day: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.

I would like to see a breakdown by country or response type.  I'm confident that there is at least one country that isn't doing squat which is skewing the data for the overall line on the graph.

It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....

No, the EU is only around 450 million, so not even close to twice as many


https://europa.eu/european-union/about​-eu/figures/living_en

The EU covers over 4 million km² and has 446 million inhabitants


That chart is misleading because it's not actually johns hopkins.  It is from johns hopkins data, and it is based on all of Europe... and not the EU only.

2 different things.

And Europe, the "continent" has 741 millions people.

That would be like saying America, and then including canada and Mexico.  (Which actually would make the case count better).

Europe as a whole has had 120k cases.
 
2020-10-26 2:35:12 PM  
6 votes:

geggam: Froman: Crazy Lee: Ambivalence: And the federal government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.

And  the federal government Trump Administration has officially declared it has no interest in utilizing those Federal Resources at their disposal in stopping it.

/just a little more precise

Political pseudo-intellectuals will cry about how this is a perfect example of how terrible government is at everything and that it has failed on every level. Well, that's what happens when you either voted directly for or were OK with a ruthless mobbed up notorious celebrity "business" man who never held public office taking over the executive branch and staffing it with his sycophants and crime partners. It was clear that Trump was the anti-government president. Drain the swamp. Dismantle the administrative state. Disable our regulatory agencies. Fire literally everyone not working directly for the enrichment of America's industrial leaders.

For everyone who thinks they're so SMRT because they hate government and don't trust it, here is a preview of your world. But if you are truly OK with Amazon, Facebook, ExxonMobil, Canadian mining conglomerates, and Big Ag deciding your fate with no ability for you to vote(because what are you gonna do, stop using your computer, stop buying things you want, and stop eating?) then I won't argue. You do you.

Sort of curious what you think a govt can do to protect you ? 

You can stay home... You can wear a mask... You can socially distance. 

Do you need a babysitter to tell you what to do ?


Is this a real question?
 
2020-10-26 11:06:13 AM  
6 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Difficulty... that third spike is the *base* to the exponential growth we are about to see.
So... well, f*ck.
 
2020-10-26 10:58:51 AM  
6 votes:
We've ignored it at ever level of our government and it's just not going away? It's just like every other problem we have as a country, then.
 
2020-10-26 3:46:21 PM  
5 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: Let's start with an actual shut-down. One that looks like Canada or Germany. Two weeks - only essential personnel. No wiggle room, government shores up everyone Canada style everybody gets money.

Then robust testing and tracking so you can have a control on where you allocate resource you can be more effective in your usage of PPE and manpower; and I'd utilize the national stockpile and DPA to shore up access to badly needed resources.

I would have had thermal scanners installed at every major airport and probably at major food processing facilities.  There's no reason that these people should be in peril every time they go to work. International flights shut down totally until we get a handle on transmission.

Ease restrictions, keep tracking and tracing, button down locally during flare-ups until a medical solution surfaces. Sure, it would cost a lot of money - but so will a million or so dead people and thrice as much with possibly permanent disability.

OK 

I have been in airports... they are really devoid of people so your impact isnt going to be as big as you think 

Tracking and tracing does what  ? tells you who is sick it does nothing to stop the spread. 

You  have a bug that hops into cats and dogs... probably rats. 

How are you addressing those vectors without a complete shutdown which will in fact kill more people than this bug is capable of. 

The govt printing machine cannot print that much money and keep inflation from going off the rails. 

Next idea ?


We spent $2.4 trillion on the war in Iraq. At the height of the shutdown, we had 23 million unemployed. For the amount we spent in Iraq, we could have paid every unemployed person $2,000 a month for 52 months. Did the Iraq war cause inflation to go off the rails? Funny, how when we want revenge for 3,000 dead Americans, no cost is too high, but when faced with a disaster that has killed hundreds of thousands, first thing assholes like you say is "how can we pay for it?"
 
2020-10-26 2:22:08 PM  
5 votes:

AwfulObject: cartersdad: I am perplexed as we try this and that and it doesn't work.  and no one talks about the other harmful effects.

Case in point, my best friend lost his job and was stuck trying to pay bills.  I was helping him out and he kept promising to pay me back (which wasn't a huge worry).  so he called and told me he pulled his pension out and I got paid back a big chunk.

That night he OD'd.

What exactly was tried? We didn't even shut down, we had no follow up, no testing strategy, nothing. I'm sorry your friend OD'd, ask why your elected officials didn't do anything with the time they were given.


States were tapped out and couldn't afford to help more than they did. The federal government easily could have afforded to step in, pay people's rent for a while, give that $600/week to everyone regardless of unemployment status and continued it for the whole summer, but we don't do that, apparently. Not in this country. We only take care of our corporations.
 
2020-10-26 11:26:38 AM  
5 votes:

Shaggy_C: dkulprit: It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....

EU has 513 million (if you count the UK still.) The USA has 330 million. Not quite 'twice.'

SurelyShirley: The EU is testing more.

Compared to March, yes. The UK has one of the highest excess deaths in the world, for instance, but even at the March peak they were recording extremely small numbers because they couldn't test more than a few thousand people a day. Even now there are hours-long queues to get tests around the country. The USA is still testing many more people per capita AFAIK.


What's the point of your argument? "Hey, we don't have to do anything because Europe is also shiatting the bed"? Or are you just being anti-social for your own sake?
 
2020-10-26 11:14:42 AM  
5 votes:

Jack Sabbath: Just in time for the holidays, family members are gonna die!


Schools go to in-person in November, the kids infect their grandparents at Thanksgiving, and then they get to attend their funerals at Christmas.

2020 will not end on a high note.
 
2020-10-26 11:07:32 AM  
5 votes:
Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.
 
2020-10-26 10:59:03 AM  
5 votes:
How is this different than what's happening now?
 
2020-10-26 10:58:39 AM  
5 votes:
If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

cdn.statcdn.comView Full Size


Oh...
 
2020-10-26 10:38:14 AM  
5 votes:
Go Team Virus!
 
2020-10-26 4:51:45 PM  
4 votes:

Optimus Primate: Myrdinn: Optimus Primate: The current USA trajectory for re-opening will not deviate unless the death toll starts getting so big that the Republicans can no longer ignore it. This is a fact.

Not even then.
We are pretty much past the "...can no longer ignore it."
The rich hath spoken, the worker class shall suffer, and the Morlocks shall inherit the warning sirens.

I agree in principle, but I think there is a "tipping point" (where bodies start getting stacked like cord wood, etc) that even the most ardent Republican cannot ignore.


What makes you think that?
 
2020-10-26 12:13:38 PM  
4 votes:

wheresmypen: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

So we're about two weeks behind.

Great.


Probably not even.  More like just a few days behind.  The U.shiat 80,000+ daily cases now and many areas are reporting well beyond the 5% test positive rate that suggests we are not catching anywhere near all the cases.

This is suggested both by the SHARP rise in deaths the past few days and the poop checking method.  By checking samples at sewage treatment they can see how the population at large is fairing.

Boston, for example, looks a lot like it did in the spring when things got very bad.

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:29:28 AM  
4 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: What's the point of your argument? "Hey, we don't have to do anything because Europe is also shiatting the bed"? Or are you just being anti-social for your own sake?


I think it is an attempt at "trump not biggest f*ckup in history, so... donnae blame donnie for f*cking up, the f*ckwhistle.  So, elects him again maybe?"

But, he is a tardewhistle and a f*ckmuppet.  The TrumpenFurhrer that is.
 
2020-10-26 11:22:33 AM  
4 votes:

Ambivalence: And the federal government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.

And  the federal government Trump Administration has officially declared it has no interest in utilizing those Federal Resources at their disposal in stopping it.


/just a little more precise
 
2020-10-26 11:18:13 AM  
4 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Ambivalence: And the federally government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.

Trump is tired of COVID.  It simply does not respond to threats or intimidation or harsh language.  So there's simply no way to fight it.  You understand how it is.  They tried nothing, and they're out of ideas.


He still has a few tricks left, like suing it or refusing to pay.

You know what, never mind.  I can see it now: "CMS Announces It Will No Longer Reimburse Providers And Facilities For Testing And Treatment Of COVID-19. Stonks Soar On News."
 
2020-10-26 11:16:05 AM  
4 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Comparing one country with a centralized "do nothing" response vs multiple countries in an economic union of multiple independent nations each with their own individual responses. If only there was an appropriate food metaphor, something about apples and oranges...
 
2020-10-26 11:14:33 AM  
4 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


The EU is testing more.
 
2020-10-26 11:14:18 AM  
4 votes:

BizarreMan: 40 degree day: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.

I would like to see a breakdown by country or response type.  I'm confident that there is at least one country that isn't doing squat which is skewing the data for the overall line on the graph.


It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....
 
2020-10-26 11:11:47 AM  
4 votes:

Olliewog: Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.


You want the Rt stuff here https://rt.live
 
2020-10-26 11:04:18 AM  
4 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


So it looks like we're going to be spiking like that imminently, followed by yet another wave that they didn't get.  Great.
 
2020-10-26 10:56:52 AM  
4 votes:

Ambivalence: And the federally government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.


Spice must flow.
 
2020-10-26 5:47:26 PM  
3 votes:

geggam: weddingsinger: geggam: weddingsinger: I'll add to your point:  50% of working Americans earn $33,000 or less (pre-pandemic numbers).

If wages kept up with inflation/productivity, and other growth that has occurred in the last 40 years then the average wage in America would be double.  Instead, something like $50 trillion in wealth has been transferred away from the bottom 80% to the top 20%.

So here is a thought... 

How about creating jobs... get a small business plan ... market it to banks / investors and sell the idea. Create jobs instead of looking for someone else to do it for you ?

Without wealth to begin with no one will give you a loan.  The have nots have neither the social capital or the literal capital to start businesses other than self employment where you don't actually have a business, you have a job.

/self-employed for 14 years.  Got out just before the pandemic, thank God.  My one piece of great luck in all this mess.

Interesting... 

How do startups work if they have all that money ? 

See society today is built on debt... you start an LLC and borrow money with the LLC sheltering your private assets 

If you fail you simply create a new business plan and start over... this is how silicon valley works and the rich people dump so much money into that area its silly 

If you want to complain ... complain about the govt regulations raising the bar so high to get a business started... but you already know that challenge 

Large corporations have already bought n paid for this country.. .either use their method or be poor. 

Changing their methods will require bloodshed... no candidate today is even remotely interested in anything but lip service to the poors... if you think otherwise go ask biden / bernie or any of the countless others to donate their millions to the cause


No. Nobody loans money to new corporations without someone putting up their house. Not even the SBA. They require you have 'skin in the game'.

Have you ever started a business? I don't think you have.

That said, there are tricks. Not being the primary on the SBA paperwork is a big one.
That's how people start businesses every 4-5 years and make bank. The businesses are designed to fail, but pay well in the interim.
A person that 'always wanted to be a businessman' is a resource/sucker. You'll need a new one, with at least some assets, every 4-5 years.
Also: Avoid doing business with that kind of company. Ditching their liabilities is part of the unwritten business plan. Once they've got your money, you are a liability to them.
 
2020-10-26 5:22:19 PM  
3 votes:

geggam: whidbey: geggam: weddingsinger: I'll add to your point:  50% of working Americans earn $33,000 or less (pre-pandemic numbers).

If wages kept up with inflation/productivity, and other growth that has occurred in the last 40 years then the average wage in America would be double.  Instead, something like $50 trillion in wealth has been transferred away from the bottom 80% to the top 20%.

So here is a thought... 

How about creating jobs... get a small business plan ... market it to banks / investors and sell the idea. Create jobs instead of looking for someone else to do it for you ?

How about raising corporate taxes, mandating living wages and taxing billionaires out of existence instead of blaming victims and expecting them to have the same economic power as the top 1/10th of the 1%?

So you think more govt is the solution to the problem instead of less govt enabling you to help yourself 

Got it

Welfare mentality abounds everywhere


No you don't "got it"

you're still blaming people who have no power compared to those with all the money.

Welfare mentality abounds everywhere

I don't see you calling for ending corporate welfare.
 
2020-10-26 12:51:17 PM  
3 votes:

Froman: Shaggy_C: Tr0mBoNe: What's the point of your argument? "Hey, we don't have to do anything because Europe is also shiatting the bed"? Or are you just being anti-social for your own sake?

I was calling out the people who immediately started jumping all over Trump and turning this into a political thread. My point was to refute their assertion that poor governance alone would cause the spike. The virus doesn't care what your politics are; it exists for one reason, and that's to infect as many people as possible. People who don't wear masks and don't social distance play right into its hands.

You kinda said it yourself though, Europe opened up too early. That's what the epidemiologists were warning about, here and there. Open up too early and you undo everything you worked so hard for the last few months keeping businesses closed, wasting the sacrifices of your people. If locking down restaurants and offering loans or grants to make payroll and rent was hard before, well what do we expect when the caseload is so high that any open night at a bar or restaurant is guaranteed to be a spreader event? You cannot control this thing without a mandate forcing people to do the right thing.


Europe and the US will have to learn this the hard way. We will not have any kind of economic recovery as long as this continues. We no longer will consider these lost decades. This will be a new normal for a while. It will force Governments to either work for the people or else we will see them topple via mass protests and uprising.
 
2020-10-26 12:33:51 PM  
3 votes:

Ivo Shandor: Olliewog: Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.

[Fark user image 850x509]

This is a decent overview. The second peak of "daily cases" appears much larger than the first one, but the number of hospitalizations were about the same. This suggests that the first peak of the reported cases was artificially low due to limited testing. There is some increase in testing from the second to the third peak, but it's a smaller ratio this time.

The death rate has gone down over time. Some of that is from improved treatment, but some of it could also be from a shift in the average age of the cases (since the fatality rate goes way up in older populations). Deaths are a lagging indicator so it will take a while to see how high the third peak goes.


I'd add that guidelines for hospitalization have become stricter, meaning fewer cases are allowed in compared to the spring.
 
2020-10-26 12:03:26 PM  
3 votes:

thorpe: Let's see who's not doing their job, besides Trump.

[Fark user image image 850x1148]


A more honest graph would have used Red and Blue for the state bars.
 
2020-10-26 11:51:30 AM  
3 votes:

Olliewog: Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.


The article didn't miss it. You did.

"However, more testing cannot account for the rise in cases, health officials say, because the percent of tests coming back positive has increased as well. About 6.2% of tests were positive on Sunday based on a seven-day average, according to Hopkins, up from 5.2% a week earlier. "
 
2020-10-26 11:47:19 AM  
3 votes:

Eightballjacket: dkulprit: BizarreMan: 40 degree day: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.

I would like to see a breakdown by country or response type.  I'm confident that there is at least one country that isn't doing squat which is skewing the data for the overall line on the graph.

It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....

No, the EU is only around 450 million, so not even close to twice as many


https://europa.eu/european-union/about​-eu/figures/living_en

The EU covers over 4 million km² and has 446 million inhabitants


The EU is *in* Europe.  Europe has a bigger population than the EU.
 
2020-10-26 11:20:20 AM  
3 votes:
Fark user image
 
2020-10-26 11:18:34 AM  
3 votes:

Tr0mBoNe: AdmirableSnackbar: TheSubjunctive: [Fark user image 500x253]

I wish I could say confidently where we are on this chart.

We never had that first downslope, it's possible we're still just approaching that first peak.

The ocean does not recede completely between each wave.. the US is on wave #3 and Europe (minus Sweden) is on wave #2. I think we're beyond comparing this one to 1918.. we're in uncharted waters in terms of modern medical emergencies.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:12:33 AM  
3 votes:

40 degree day: I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.


That's a bit of a red herring; countries in the EU have full autonomy to control their health and borders in ways not available to states under the American federal system. So you can't make a direct comparison between the two.

CarnySaur: So it looks like we're going to be spiking like that imminently, followed by yet another wave that they didn't get.  Great.


Depends. I feel as though Europe opened up far more quickly and broadly than the USA has. The USA never really shut down, whereas many European states went into full lockdown. That is why numbers were suppressed as much as they were, but then Europe turned around and started allowing maskless shopping and clubbing and all the rest so as to get back the summer holiday season. So, not unexpected that there would be a spike in Europe, but what is surprising is just how big it is. In the USA, shutdowns were light, but mask rules and social distancing have continued more generally. Americans didn't get the 'hop on a plane and go for a cheap and cheerful weekend in Mallorca' summer because the virus was still raging too badly. That high case count in the summer may actually prevent a spike in the fall.

Thanksgiving, however...
 
2020-10-26 11:11:28 AM  
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: TheSubjunctive: [Fark user image 500x253]

I wish I could say confidently where we are on this chart.

We never had that first downslope, it's possible we're still just approaching that first peak.


The ocean does not recede completely between each wave.. the US is on wave #3 and Europe (minus Sweden) is on wave #2. I think we're beyond comparing this one to 1918.. we're in uncharted waters in terms of modern medical emergencies.
 
2020-10-26 4:51:40 PM  
2 votes:

OptionC: geggam: OptionC: geggam: AwfulObject: geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ?

Where would you be now ?

Can't save what you don't get, most people don't have enough to cover a small emergency let alone a big one.

So you are already in a bad shape and this was going to happen regardless ... 

Perhaps that is why you are so ready for someone to fix your issues ?

Why don't poor people just buy more money?

Or... like when I was poor get free college... community college... apply themselves and change their career path 

All sorts of free money out there. All sorts of programs

You have to get off your ass and go get it

[fourpillarfreedom.com image 528x538]

A third(!) or households(!!!) make less than $40K per year.  Even aside from the fact that free college doesn't pay next month's rent, do you believe that income distribution would be any different if literally everyone went to college?


I'll add to your point:  50% of working Americans earn $33,000 or less (pre-pandemic numbers).

If wages kept up with inflation/productivity, and other growth that has occurred in the last 40 years then the average wage in America would be double.  Instead, something like $50 trillion in wealth has been transferred away from the bottom 80% to the top 20%.
 
2020-10-26 4:21:03 PM  
2 votes:

Optimus Primate: The current USA trajectory for re-opening will not deviate unless the death toll starts getting so big that the Republicans can no longer ignore it. This is a fact.


Not even then.
We are pretty much past the "...can no longer ignore it."
The rich hath spoken, the worker class shall suffer, and the Morlocks shall inherit the warning sirens.
 
2020-10-26 4:07:40 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: Let's start with an actual shut-down. One that looks like Canada or Germany. Two weeks - only essential personnel. No wiggle room, government shores up everyone Canada style everybody gets money.

Then robust testing and tracking so you can have a control on where you allocate resource you can be more effective in your usage of PPE and manpower; and I'd utilize the national stockpile and DPA to shore up access to badly needed resources.

I would have had thermal scanners installed at every major airport and probably at major food processing facilities.  There's no reason that these people should be in peril every time they go to work. International flights shut down totally until we get a handle on transmission.

Ease restrictions, keep tracking and tracing, button down locally during flare-ups until a medical solution surfaces. Sure, it would cost a lot of money - but so will a million or so dead people and thrice as much with possibly permanent disability.

OK 

I have been in airports... they are really devoid of people so your impact isnt going to be as big as you think 

Tracking and tracing does what  ? tells you who is sick it does nothing to stop the spread. 

You  have a bug that hops into cats and dogs... probably rats. 

How are you addressing those vectors without a complete shutdown which will in fact kill more people than this bug is capable of. 

The govt printing machine cannot print that much money and keep inflation from going off the rails. 

Next idea ?


"Stop posting" sounds like a good one.
 
2020-10-26 3:53:58 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: patrick767: We've been trying the "personal responsibility" approach in Indiana. Our governor is fond of saying things like "I trust Hoosiers to do the right thing without the government requiring it". You know how that's working out? IT'S FARKING NOT!

This is called evolution. 

The stupid will eventually figure out how to die even with all the laws or labels you put on things. 

I call this darwin debt... we have had this coming for some time


Ah, so you're a Nazi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S​ocial_D​arwinism

Good to know.
 
2020-10-26 3:49:23 PM  
2 votes:

Tman144: Funny, how when we want revenge for 3,000 dead Americans, no cost is too high,


"Revenge" on a country which had nothing to do with that particular attack, by the way.
 
2020-10-26 3:37:09 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: Tracking and tracing does what ? tells you who is sick it does nothing to stop the spread.

You have a bug that hops into cats and dogs... probably rats.

How are you addressing those vectors without a complete shutdown which will in fact kill more people than this bug is capable of.

The govt printing machine cannot print that much money and keep inflation from going off the rails.

Next idea ?


Test, trace, and isolate. When someone tests positive you find out who else they have been in recent contact with and you tell those people to isolate for 14 days. It takes a few days after exposure before a person is capable of spreading the infection. If you test frequently and process the results quickly you can stop the infection from spreading more than one or two hops from the first positive case.

The other measures are things like mask policies and occupancy limits to reduce the spread from people who don't know that they're contagious as they go about their day-to-day business. It's better to accidentally infect 3 people sharing an outdoor table at a restaurant than to infect 60 at a wedding or choir performance. Yes, that will suck for anyone whose business model relies on packing lots of loud drunk people into a confined space for hours at a time. Deal with it.

There have been a few cases of human-to-animal transmission but it seems to be a minor effect so far. I haven't heard of any cases of it going the other way yet (apart from whichever farmer got too close to one particular bat over in China).

The govt printing machine has no problem finding money to shovel into the stock market. At a minimum the government could have redirected those trillions into zero-interest loans for anyone struggling to afford food or rent. Increase taxes on the top 0.01% and/or put a fee of $0.001 per share on all stock-market transactions (including electronic high-frequency trading) if you want to balance the books later.
 
2020-10-26 3:34:17 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: ??? To date, COVID has killed more people than every conflict the US has been in *combined* if you minus out WW2. This is a bad talking point.

I find this really interesting. 

A man fighting obesity and high blood pressure gets covid and he dies from covid... Not the fact his fat out of shape ass was already one foot in the grave 

Ever think maybe the reason so many are getting sick in the US is because we are all fat half sick bastards to begin with ?


Well, here's a list of comorbidity: Asthma, Obesity, Hypertension, Cancer, Pregnancy, Diabetes. All of these are chronic diseases that you can live a long life with - you aren't exactly "one foot in the grave". Asthma, Cancer, Pregnancy(temporary), (type 1) Diabetes, and some types of Hypertension aren't exactly always lifestyle onset.

These are diseases that are chronic and usually have a component of genetic predisposition - but in many cases aren't fatal - and over 1/3rd of the entire american population has one of them.

So, sorry, yes, we still need to take care of them, even if they're fat, you farking asshole.
 
2020-10-26 3:33:22 PM  
2 votes:
I don't mean to turn this into a whataboutism as the US is doing badly when compared against its neighbours, but I was just looking at the international data and Europe is looking pretty bad.

Fark user imageView Full Size


This is going to get really bad again. The medical system has adapted to it and the death rates are relatively low in the wealthy regions (compare death rates between the US and Mexico), but once the capacity of the health systems starts to be reached, then there's going to be problems.

Fark user imageView Full Size


This is why the death rates were so high initially - because there were regions that were really badly affected that overwhelmed the local health systems: New York in the US and Italy in the EU. But the virus is now pandemic across both continents so it has the potential to affect multiple regions severely and overwhelm local health capacity in multiple regions. Especially now that it's got into small less resourced communities.

This could get bad again.
 
2020-10-26 3:27:03 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: OptionC: geggam: AwfulObject: geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ?

Where would you be now ?

Can't save what you don't get, most people don't have enough to cover a small emergency let alone a big one.

So you are already in a bad shape and this was going to happen regardless ...

Perhaps that is why you are so ready for someone to fix your issues ?

Why don't poor people just buy more money?

Or... like when I was poor get free college... community college... apply themselves and change their career path

All sorts of free money out there. All sorts of programs

You have to get off your ass and go get it


You do understand how wealth works, right? Zero-sum and all?
 
2020-10-26 3:22:53 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: Let's start with an actual shut-down. One that looks like Canada or Germany. Two weeks - only essential personnel. No wiggle room, government shores up everyone Canada style everybody gets money.

Then robust testing and tracking so you can have a control on where you allocate resource you can be more effective in your usage of PPE and manpower; and I'd utilize the national stockpile and DPA to shore up access to badly needed resources.

I would have had thermal scanners installed at every major airport and probably at major food processing facilities.  There's no reason that these people should be in peril every time they go to work. International flights shut down totally until we get a handle on transmission.

Ease restrictions, keep tracking and tracing, button down locally during flare-ups until a medical solution surfaces. Sure, it would cost a lot of money - but so will a million or so dead people and thrice as much with possibly permanent disability.

OK 

I have been in airports... they are really devoid of people so your impact isnt going to be as big as you think 

Tracking and tracing does what  ? tells you who is sick it does nothing to stop the spread. 

You  have a bug that hops into cats and dogs... probably rats. 

How are you addressing those vectors without a complete shutdown which will in fact kill more people than this bug is capable of. 

The govt printing machine cannot print that much money and keep inflation from going off the rails. 

Next idea ?


??? These things have worked in other countries. Physics and the properties of viral transmission do not change when they come to ground in the US so they would work here. Yes, thermal imaging would still work at airports because even with shut down travel - there is still essential travel being done and it's usually at international airports that it's being done.

"How are you addressing those vectors without a complete shutdown which will in fact kill more people than this bug is capable of."

??? To date, COVID has killed more people than every conflict the US has been in *combined* if you minus out WW2. This is a bad talking point.

"The govt printing machine cannot print that much money and keep inflation from going off the rails."

Canada has less GDP per capita than us and is able to do it without going off the rails.  We can't because ?????.  Also, we'll have to spend the money either way, so might as well spend it keeping people alive rather than toss it in the hole as people die and become disabled.
 
2020-10-26 3:21:07 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: If every individual took personal responsibility the collective would be fine. This idea you need to be told what to do is infantile

Fix your own house before you worry about others.


I don't need to be told what to do because I look at everything with adult responsibility. Like normal people. You however, seem to be acting like a teenager who DOES need to be told what to do because you only look out for yourself. I would wear a mask and distance without government. It's people like you who won't do it unless forced, that I am worried about. If a store employee asks you to wear a mask and stay 6ft away from other customers do you tell them they have no right to tell you what to do? Say "it's your responsibility not mine?"

WTF is going on in America, is there something in the water preventing people's brains from developing past adolescence or something?
 
2020-10-26 3:18:24 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ?

Where would you be now ?

Can't save what you don't get, most people don't have enough to cover a small emergency let alone a big one.

So you are already in a bad shape and this was going to happen regardless ... 

Perhaps that is why you are so ready for someone to fix your issues ?


Why don't poor people just buy more money?
 
2020-10-26 3:13:15 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ?

Where would you be now ?


Can't save what you don't get, most people don't have enough to cover a small emergency let alone a big one.
 
2020-10-26 3:11:06 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: AwfulObject: geggam:

This is the first time in history the conservative political outlook can negatively impact people in real time. Contrary to your belief, you are your brother's keeper - your personal decisions have a very serious and immediate effect on the people around you.

No man is an island, we live together or die apart; national nightmare outside shoulda told ya.

Interesting quotes

What do you see as a feasible plan for the govt ?

I see everyone say the govt should do more but I have yet to see anyone come up with a feasible plan of action


I quoted you one above.
 
2020-10-26 3:07:04 PM  
2 votes:
"We are likely to see a very dense epidemic"

Very dense indeed.
 
2020-10-26 3:06:59 PM  
2 votes:
geggam:

This is the first time in history the conservative political outlook can negatively impact people in real time. Contrary to your belief, you are your brother's keeper - your personal decisions have a very serious and immediate effect on the people around you.

No man is an island, we live together or die apart; national nightmare outside shoulda told ya.
 
2020-10-26 2:39:36 PM  
2 votes:

geggam: Froman: Crazy Lee: Ambivalence: And the federal government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.

And  the federal government Trump Administration has officially declared it has no interest in utilizing those Federal Resources at their disposal in stopping it.

/just a little more precise

Political pseudo-intellectuals will cry about how this is a perfect example of how terrible government is at everything and that it has failed on every level. Well, that's what happens when you either voted directly for or were OK with a ruthless mobbed up notorious celebrity "business" man who never held public office taking over the executive branch and staffing it with his sycophants and crime partners. It was clear that Trump was the anti-government president. Drain the swamp. Dismantle the administrative state. Disable our regulatory agencies. Fire literally everyone not working directly for the enrichment of America's industrial leaders.

For everyone who thinks they're so SMRT because they hate government and don't trust it, here is a preview of your world. But if you are truly OK with Amazon, Facebook, ExxonMobil, Canadian mining conglomerates, and Big Ag deciding your fate with no ability for you to vote(because what are you gonna do, stop using your computer, stop buying things you want, and stop eating?) then I won't argue. You do you.

Sort of curious what you think a govt can do to protect you ?

You can stay home... You can wear a mask... You can socially distance.

Do you need a babysitter to tell you what to do ?


Not even sure I can dignify this with a response. If at this point you can't see how this can only be fought on the collective level you're pretty hopeless and failed as a human. I remember one guy who was so offended by the concept that wearing a mask was not about him but protecting others that he went ballistic.

I suppose you'll also tell me that only thing stopping Purdue Pharma from killing middle America with opioids was that the government made them do it. That's more or less the mental gymnastic libertarian answer to everything.
 
2020-10-26 2:28:10 PM  
2 votes:

Froman: AwfulObject: cartersdad: I am perplexed as we try this and that and it doesn't work.  and no one talks about the other harmful effects.

Case in point, my best friend lost his job and was stuck trying to pay bills.  I was helping him out and he kept promising to pay me back (which wasn't a huge worry).  so he called and told me he pulled his pension out and I got paid back a big chunk.

That night he OD'd.

What exactly was tried? We didn't even shut down, we had no follow up, no testing strategy, nothing. I'm sorry your friend OD'd, ask why your elected officials didn't do anything with the time they were given.

States were tapped out and couldn't afford to help more than they did. The federal government easily could have afforded to step in, pay people's rent for a while, give that $600/week to everyone regardless of unemployment status and continued it for the whole summer, but we don't do that, apparently. Not in this country. We only take care of our corporations.


This, and also, we couldn't even institute a national track and trace, and our controlling entity decided to latch on to an astrotufing movement engineered in part by the DeVoss's for political gain and in the face of the very guidance it suggested to states. Our elected leaders did less than nothing - they purposefully undermined our response for financial and political gain.

Perhaps the guy's friend that OD'd will remember that the next time he votes.
 
2020-10-26 2:20:20 PM  
2 votes:

Flashlight: Surrender your boo-tah: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

Hey, in a month when I show this graph to you will you admit to being wrong and vote straight D the rest of your life?

Further, I'm a liberal and not very bright, what actions did Trump take to slow the spread?

I remember Trump limitng travel from China. And Biden called him a xenophobe for it. The fact that Biden was more interested in scoring political points than he was with stopping the spread and was willing to sacrifice my life and the lives of all Americans tells me everything I need to know about Biden.


"Additionally, more than 27,000 Americans returned from mainland China in the first month after the restrictions took effect. U.S. officials lost track of more than 1,600 of them who were supposed to be monitored for virus exposure. "

https://apnews.com/article/d227b34b16​8​e576bf5068b92a03c003d


"
President Donald Trump failed to impose restrictions on travelers from Europe until mid-March, allowing a flood of Covid-19 cases into the U.S."

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/12/u​-​s-got-more-confirmed-index-cases-of-co​ronavirus-from-europe-than-from-china/​
 
2020-10-26 1:19:59 PM  
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Hey, in a month when I show this graph to you will you admit to being wrong and vote straight D the rest of your life?

Further, I'm a liberal and not very bright, what actions did Trump take to slow the spread?
 
2020-10-26 12:58:33 PM  
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: Tr0mBoNe: What's the point of your argument? "Hey, we don't have to do anything because Europe is also shiatting the bed"? Or are you just being anti-social for your own sake?

I was calling out the people who immediately started jumping all over Trump and turning this into a political thread. My point was to refute their assertion that poor governance alone would cause the spike. The virus doesn't care what your politics are; it exists for one reason, and that's to infect as many people as possible. People who don't wear masks and don't social distance play right into its hands.


You're bullshiatting us and yourself if you don't see the way we've approached(fumbled) this medical emergency is largely in the hands of this administration. From top to bottom the severity of this travesty is in their hands. Hell, one could make the argument the same people are responsible for the fark up in the UK, Brazil and the Philippines in their covid responses.
 
2020-10-26 12:14:42 PM  
2 votes:

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: thorpe: Let's see who's not doing their job, besides Trump.

[Fark user image image 850x1148]

A more honest graph would have used Red and Blue for the state bars.


At this point its so widespread it doesn't matter.  Red states infect neighboring blue states.  Minnesota, for example, is surrounding by infected stupid.
 
2020-10-26 11:51:31 AM  
2 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 11:44:35 AM  
2 votes:

eurotrader: koder: We're "going herd" until Trump is removed.

In a herd, culling the cause of harm is a good practice.


Public health officials will be targeted for death.

American LEO will refuse to enforce anything the new Administration mandates, universally, and in force.

And we thought they were pricks before? We haven't seen anything yet.
 
2020-10-26 11:37:43 AM  
2 votes:

neongoats: Disenfranchise the right wing.


Disenfranchise anyone who is not up to matching their responsibilities in a time of crisis.  College degrees, military service, et cetera are all meant to prepare one for dealing with the trials of civilization.  We have been found wanting in this regard, and must correct the course.

Hell, Obama dealt with *three* effin' pandemics, one that started on OUR shores, and there was hardly a ripple in the world.  Other than Trump panicking about one nurse. 
For nothing else, governmental service should have been denied Trump simply because he DID panic THEN (Ebola crisis).  The cockwobbling mushroom bunkerboi.
 
2020-10-26 11:30:19 AM  
2 votes:
This is what comes of allowing right wingers political power. Take it all away, because your lives and the lives of your loved ones depend on it. Disenfranchise the right wing.
 
2020-10-26 11:25:09 AM  
2 votes:

dkulprit: BizarreMan: 40 degree day: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

I'm pretty sure what this graph proves is that a weak and decentralized response doesn't work.

I would like to see a breakdown by country or response type.  I'm confident that there is at least one country that isn't doing squat which is skewing the data for the overall line on the graph.

It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....


No, the EU is only around 450 million, so not even close to twice as many


https://europa.eu/european-union/abou​t​-eu/figures/living_en

The EU covers over 4 million km² and has 446 million inhabitants
 
2020-10-26 11:23:12 AM  
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: dkulprit: It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....

EU has 513 million (if you count the UK still.) The USA has 330 million. Not quite 'twice.'

SurelyShirley: The EU is testing more.

Compared to March, yes. The UK has one of the highest excess deaths in the world, for instance, but even at the March peak they were recording extremely small numbers because they couldn't test more than a few thousand people a day. Even now there are hours-long queues to get tests around the country. The USA is still testing many more people per capita AFAIK.


Ok, so now it's "per capita", got it. Careful with those goal posts, they might hurt your back.
 
2020-10-26 11:23:03 AM  
2 votes:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Keep in mind the population of Europe is more than twice that of the US (740 millionish vs 330 millionish), so what that means is they are just now getting as bad as we are, after many months of being much better than us.
 
2020-10-26 10:57:47 AM  
2 votes:
Don't worry, it will go away with the heat in April.
 
2020-10-27 4:49:03 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: patrick767: We've been trying the "personal responsibility" approach in Indiana. Our governor is fond of saying things like "I trust Hoosiers to do the right thing without the government requiring it". You know how that's working out? IT'S FARKING NOT!

This is called evolution. 

The stupid will eventually figure out how to die even with all the laws or labels you put on things. 

I call this darwin debt... we have had this coming for some time


Problem is the stupid ones kill responsible people too. Responding to pandemics with libertarian individualistic bullshiat is absolutely asinine.
 
2020-10-27 1:07:14 AM  
1 vote:

NewportBarGuy: Might be time to steal a yacht and flee to a small pacific island.


If you want a large Pacific island instead, there's Australia. The state of Victoria, which includes Melbourne but not Sydney, had no new cases of COVID today and no COVID deaths, though its rates are still a lot higher than Queensland (which has Sydney.)  And they've still got crazy right-wingers if you can't live without those.
 
2020-10-26 6:34:57 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: OptionC: geggam: See society today is built on debt... you start an LLC and borrow money with the LLC sheltering your private assets 

If you fail you simply create a new business plan and start over... this is how silicon valley works and the rich people dump so much money into that area its silly

That is... not how Silicon Valley works.

SV startups are generally 100% equity investment - nobody in their right mind would *lend* money to a startup.

yep.. and the investors have preferred stock and developers get common meaning when the payout happens investors get theirs first ... and the founders 

So .... be a founder


WTF?

Common stock votes.
Preferred stock does not.

Pay no attention to the names.

Everybody except the VCs is contractually prevented from selling their stock until after the VCs had a chance to cash out.
 
2020-10-26 5:47:01 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: See society today is built on debt... you start an LLC and borrow money with the LLC sheltering your private assets 

If you fail you simply create a new business plan and start over... this is how silicon valley works and the rich people dump so much money into that area its silly


That is... not how Silicon Valley works.

SV startups are generally 100% equity investment - nobody in their right mind would *lend* money to a startup.
 
2020-10-26 5:23:37 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: weddingsinger: I'll add to your point:  50% of working Americans earn $33,000 or less (pre-pandemic numbers).

If wages kept up with inflation/productivity, and other growth that has occurred in the last 40 years then the average wage in America would be double.  Instead, something like $50 trillion in wealth has been transferred away from the bottom 80% to the top 20%.

So here is a thought... 

How about creating jobs... get a small business plan ... market it to banks / investors and sell the idea. Create jobs instead of looking for someone else to do it for you ?


Without wealth to begin with no one will give you a loan.  The have nots have neither the social capital or the literal capital to start businesses other than self employment where you don't actually have a business, you have a job.

/self-employed for 14 years.  Got out just before the pandemic, thank God.  My one piece of great luck in all this mess.
 
2020-10-26 5:11:32 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: weddingsinger: I'll add to your point:  50% of working Americans earn $33,000 or less (pre-pandemic numbers).

If wages kept up with inflation/productivity, and other growth that has occurred in the last 40 years then the average wage in America would be double.  Instead, something like $50 trillion in wealth has been transferred away from the bottom 80% to the top 20%.

So here is a thought... 

How about creating jobs... get a small business plan ... market it to banks / investors and sell the idea. Create jobs instead of looking for someone else to do it for you ?


How about raising corporate taxes, mandating living wages and taxing billionaires out of existence instead of blaming victims and expecting them to have the same economic power as the top 1/10th of the 1%?
 
2020-10-26 3:51:06 PM  
1 vote:
The current USA trajectory for re-opening will not deviate unless the death toll starts getting so big that the Republicans can no longer ignore it. This is a fact.
 
2020-10-26 3:44:13 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: geggam: If every individual took personal responsibility the collective would be fine.  This idea you need to be told what to do is infantile 

Fix your own house before you worry about others.

Except it's the people saying shiat like you've said in this thread that's making us unable to fix our house. You're the ones making sure the US has the worst response possible to this virus.


We've been trying the "personal responsibility" approach in Indiana. Our governor is fond of saying things like "I trust Hoosiers to do the right thing without the government requiring it". You know how that's working out? IT'S FARKING NOT!

The governor eventually accepted reality and instituted a mask mandate, but with no penalties for non-compliance. Now with hospitalizations up where they were at the height of the first wave back in mid April, he's done nothing. The state has almost no restrictions and the virus continues to spread like wildfire. But hey, no need to mandate restrictions. "Hoosiers will do the right thing". No, they farking won't. They've proven it again and again and many continue to do so, doing whatever the fark they want, acting like there's nothing going on.
 
2020-10-26 3:38:59 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ? 

Where would you be now ?


lol, restrictions started in March, and things have not eased up yet. We likely won't be able to return to normal until sometime next year. You expect people to have a year and a half of savings just incase we get hit with a once in 100 year catastrophe? Get the fark out of here.

I have an idea, why don't we pay taxes with the idea that our government will help us during a disaster. I don't see you in hurricane threads lambasting people for expecting help. "Well, you should have saved $300,000 so you could rebuild your own house after the hurricane leveled it!"
 
2020-10-26 3:30:44 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: AwfulObject: ??? To date, COVID has killed more people than every conflict the US has been in *combined* if you minus out WW2. This is a bad talking point.

I find this really interesting. 

A man fighting obesity and high blood pressure gets covid and he dies from covid... Not the fact his fat out of shape ass was already one foot in the grave 

Ever think maybe the reason so many are getting sick in the US is because we are all fat half sick bastards to begin with ?


so, you are saying it is okay if the people who die are fat because that is ... what?  Their own fault, so they had it coming?
 
2020-10-26 3:29:39 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: OptionC: geggam: AwfulObject: geggam: Tman144:

How does staying at home pay my rent?

Suppose you had been living inside your means and saved ? Maybe not bought so much on credit... listened to your granny who lived thru the depression ?

Where would you be now ?

Can't save what you don't get, most people don't have enough to cover a small emergency let alone a big one.

So you are already in a bad shape and this was going to happen regardless ... 

Perhaps that is why you are so ready for someone to fix your issues ?

Why don't poor people just buy more money?

Or... like when I was poor get free college... community college... apply themselves and change their career path 

All sorts of free money out there. All sorts of programs

You have to get off your ass and go get it


fourpillarfreedom.comView Full Size


A third(!) or households(!!!) make less than $40K per year.  Even aside from the fact that free college doesn't pay next month's rent, do you believe that income distribution would be any different if literally everyone went to college?
 
2020-10-26 3:01:43 PM  
1 vote:

geggam: AwfulObject: geggam: Froman: Crazy Lee: Ambivalence: And the federal government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.

And  the federal government Trump Administration has officially declared it has no interest in utilizing those Federal Resources at their disposal in stopping it.

/just a little more precise

Political pseudo-intellectuals will cry about how this is a perfect example of how terrible government is at everything and that it has failed on every level. Well, that's what happens when you either voted directly for or were OK with a ruthless mobbed up notorious celebrity "business" man who never held public office taking over the executive branch and staffing it with his sycophants and crime partners. It was clear that Trump was the anti-government president. Drain the swamp. Dismantle the administrative state. Disable our regulatory agencies. Fire literally everyone not working directly for the enrichment of America's industrial leaders.

For everyone who thinks they're so SMRT because they hate government and don't trust it, here is a preview of your world. But if you are truly OK with Amazon, Facebook, ExxonMobil, Canadian mining conglomerates, and Big Ag deciding your fate with no ability for you to vote(because what are you gonna do, stop using your computer, stop buying things you want, and stop eating?) then I won't argue. You do you.

Sort of curious what you think a govt can do to protect you ?

You can stay home... You can wear a mask... You can socially distance.

Do you need a babysitter to tell you what to do ?

Is this a real question?

Testing doesnt stop the virus, avoiding people does.

Seriously... what would you do if you were POTUS


Let's start with an actual shut-down. One that looks like Canada or Germany. Two weeks - only essential personnel. No wiggle room, government shores up everyone Canada style everybody gets money.

Then robust testing and tracking so you can have a control on where you allocate resource you can be more effective in your usage of PPE and manpower; and I'd utilize the national stockpile and DPA to shore up access to badly needed resources.

I would have had thermal scanners installed at every major airport and probably at major food processing facilities.  There's no reason that these people should be in peril every time they go to work. International flights shut down totally until we get a handle on transmission.

Ease restrictions, keep tracking and tracing, button down locally during flare-ups until a medical solution surfaces. Sure, it would cost a lot of money - but so will a million or so dead people and thrice as much with possibly permanent disability.
 
2020-10-26 2:28:45 PM  
1 vote:

Flashlight: Surrender your boo-tah: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

Hey, in a month when I show this graph to you will you admit to being wrong and vote straight D the rest of your life?

Further, I'm a liberal and not very bright, what actions did Trump take to slow the spread?

I remember Trump limitng travel from China. And Biden called him a xenophobe for it. The fact that Biden was more interested in scoring political points than he was with stopping the spread and was willing to sacrifice my life and the lives of all Americans tells me everything I need to know about Biden.


This is a lie. Democrats called Trump xenophobic for extending a travel ban on Nigeria, Myanmar, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Sudan, and Tanzania.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01​/​31/trump-administration-expands-travel​-ban-110005
 
2020-10-26 2:02:31 PM  
1 vote:

cartersdad: I am perplexed as we try this and that and it doesn't work.  and no one talks about the other harmful effects.

Case in point, my best friend lost his job and was stuck trying to pay bills.  I was helping him out and he kept promising to pay me back (which wasn't a huge worry).  so he called and told me he pulled his pension out and I got paid back a big chunk.

That night he OD'd.


Wow. That is truly terrible. Sorry for your loss.
 
2020-10-26 1:45:16 PM  
1 vote:

cartersdad: I am perplexed as we try this and that and it doesn't work.  and no one talks about the other harmful effects.

Case in point, my best friend lost his job and was stuck trying to pay bills.  I was helping him out and he kept promising to pay me back (which wasn't a huge worry).  so he called and told me he pulled his pension out and I got paid back a big chunk.

That night he OD'd.


Here's my "sad" :-(
 
2020-10-26 1:23:20 PM  
1 vote:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


Things were always going to get worse when the weather got colder and we went back into flu season. The only difference between the US and Europe right now is that we had a peak in the middle of summer, which should have been the easiest time to control the virus.
 
2020-10-26 1:05:40 PM  
1 vote:

whidbey: Momzilla59: whidbey: All you have to do is go to the comments section of any news page or governor's page on FB.

Goobers.

Goobers everywhere.

Goobers and people who think Culp would be a good governor.

It's scary.   I can't help but think we're being complacent in our King/Pierce/Thurston/Snoho bubble like the rest of the country was in 2016.

There really could be just enough goobers to unseat Inslee.  They farking hate him.


Yeah, no.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 12:46:20 PM  
1 vote:

dkulprit: It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....


:citation needed:

Quick and dirty google shows USA 328 Million, EU 446
 
2020-10-26 12:42:55 PM  
1 vote:

Shaggy_C: Tr0mBoNe: What's the point of your argument? "Hey, we don't have to do anything because Europe is also shiatting the bed"? Or are you just being anti-social for your own sake?

I was calling out the people who immediately started jumping all over Trump and turning this into a political thread. My point was to refute their assertion that poor governance alone would cause the spike. The virus doesn't care what your politics are; it exists for one reason, and that's to infect as many people as possible. People who don't wear masks and don't social distance play right into its hands.


You kinda said it yourself though, Europe opened up too early. That's what the epidemiologists were warning about, here and there. Open up too early and you undo everything you worked so hard for the last few months keeping businesses closed, wasting the sacrifices of your people. If locking down restaurants and offering loans or grants to make payroll and rent was hard before, well what do we expect when the caseload is so high that any open night at a bar or restaurant is guaranteed to be a spreader event? You cannot control this thing without a mandate forcing people to do the right thing.
 
2020-10-26 12:21:44 PM  
1 vote:

Olliewog: Personally I would like to see the percentage of people testing positive as opposed to a number.  Testing is more common and faster than even 6 weeks ago.  I know 12 people tested in the last 10 days that got tested simply because they finally could.

Numbers are arbitrary and can be manipulated to support the narrative you want to tell.  Percentage of tested vs. positive paints a much more accurate picture.  The article states percentage rise in cases but missed stating percentage of people being tested that are positive.


It's rising, rapidly, even in states that were previously testing enough.

Illinois has gone from 3% to above 8% in about a month.
 
2020-10-26 11:55:03 AM  
1 vote:

whidbey: All you have to do is go to the comments section of any news page or governor's page on FB.

Goobers.

Goobers everywhere.


Brought to you by the slow, willful destruction of effective public education, as the only ones that paid attention to school board elections and city councils were bible thumpers and anti government psychopaths, as the rest of us norms thought it was not worth our precious time.

Hell, even on the state level. Quick: name your state reps!

See?
 
2020-10-26 11:39:58 AM  
1 vote:

wheresmypen: Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...

So we're about two weeks behind.

Great.


This means, if you want to be part of the big-jump-club, your window to get infected begins today!
 
2020-10-26 11:38:14 AM  
1 vote:

Shaggy_C: If only we had good, socialist governments like in Europe instead of shiatty leadership like Trump. Then our curve would look--

[cdn.statcdn.com image 850x850]

Oh...


So we're about two weeks behind.

Great.
 
2020-10-26 11:23:38 AM  
1 vote:

Rambino: Isn't all spread exponential by definition? That's kind of how epidemiology works.

/math nerd


Not necessarily.  Some counter examples are a waterborne disease outbreak from a contaminated water source, or a foodborne outbreak due to a lapse in sanitation at a processing plant.
 
2020-10-26 11:19:50 AM  
1 vote:

Ambivalence: And the federally government has officially declared it has no interest in stopping it.


Because Freedumb.

But more like a fleeing cowardly army, scorching the earth to make things far worse for the victors.
 
2020-10-26 11:17:42 AM  
1 vote:

dkulprit: It's not only that, but the European union has more than twice the amount of people.  So per capita, they're still lower....


EU has 513 million (if you count the UK still.) The USA has 330 million. Not quite 'twice.'

SurelyShirley: The EU is testing more.


Compared to March, yes. The UK has one of the highest excess deaths in the world, for instance, but even at the March peak they were recording extremely small numbers because they couldn't test more than a few thousand people a day. Even now there are hours-long queues to get tests around the country. The USA is still testing many more people per capita AFAIK.
 
2020-10-26 11:15:40 AM  
1 vote:
So ... the last 5 months or so?
 
2020-10-26 11:11:17 AM  
1 vote:
We know. The election inches closer by the day..
 
2020-10-26 11:04:35 AM  
1 vote:
Note: This is not a repeat from April, May, June, July, August or September...
 
2020-10-26 10:57:40 AM  
1 vote:
But I heard that the virus will be taking Thanksgiving off, so that's a relief.
 
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