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(YouTube)   The Lincoln Project's advice on how to talk to the MAGA-loving people in your life   (youtube.com) divider line
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3550 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Oct 2020 at 10:01 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-26 9:02:13 AM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 9:05:15 AM  
Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.

My elderly aunt got C19 back in may because she still believed this thing to be hoax and hype so she went to church choir practice.  She was in the hospital for a week and is *still* on oxygen at home and says this is all "God's will".  *That's* not dire enough for her (or her husband) to understand they are listening to bullshiat.

OTOH, my Trump-voting neighbors slowly realized this is bullshiat back in late Spring.  Something broke (wife first and I think husband has come around) and now she's telling me stories about flipping off Trump-supporting non-mask wearers.
 
2020-10-26 9:06:01 AM  
Basically sounds like the deprogramming someone from a cult.  Good tips.
 
2020-10-26 9:08:42 AM  
Don't?
 
2020-10-26 9:17:21 AM  
Don't?  They are not gonna listen anyway.
 
2020-10-26 9:23:19 AM  
Finding out someone's values is key.  Most Trumpers are basically bigots/racists.  That's there driving motivation and what Trump tapped into.

Many won't outright admit.  They will cite Trump's business skills and that he "tells it like it is".  He's a straight talker, they will say.

If nothing else, I would try and dispel the myth that he is a good businessman but it his hard to something with facts when they don't believe any of the facts.
 
2020-10-26 9:30:38 AM  

UberDave: Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.

My elderly aunt got C19 back in may because she still believed this thing to be hoax and hype so she went to church choir practice.  She was in the hospital for a week and is *still* on oxygen at home and says this is all "God's will".  *That's* not dire enough for her (or her husband) to understand they are listening to bullshiat.


I think by and large the deeply religious almost all fall into the category of those who can never be turned.  Most of them have already made up their mind that Trump is sent by God and is therefore infallible; everything he says or does is, by extension, God's will, as are any consequences resulting from that belief.  These are lost causes on whom no energy should be wasted trying to convince them otherwsie, as any attempts to puncture the bubble of their worldview will only result in them retreating further into their bubble.

I'm sure there are a few deeply religious folks who might see the light, but I suspect their numbers are so few as to be not worth the herculean effort of finding.

OTOH, my Trump-voting neighbors slowly realized this is bullshiat back in late Spring.  Something broke (wife first and I think husband has come around) and now she's telling me stories about flipping off Trump-supporting non-mask wearers.

Good for them.  While I still wonder what took them so damn long, it's nevertheless heartening to see a real change of heart when it matters.
 
2020-10-26 9:32:58 AM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Don't?  They are not gonna listen anyway.


Survey shows that 62% would not stop supporting Trump no matter what he does.  So you would be wasting your time with them for sure.  First question you should ask is "Is there anything you could find out about Trump that would make you change your mind about him?"

Second question, "Give me an example about something that would change your mind about him?"
 
2020-10-26 9:41:08 AM  

mrshowrules: Finding out someone's values is key.  Most Trumpers are basically bigots/racists.  That's there driving motivation and what Trump tapped into.

Many won't outright admit.  They will cite Trump's business skills and that he "tells it like it is".  He's a straight talker, they will say.

If nothing else, I would try and dispel the myth that he is a good businessman but it his hard to something with facts when they don't believe any of the facts.


When it appears someone's core operating principle is stigginit to the libs, there's really not much to work with. I tried on several occasions n to tell the person who was my best friend at one time that Drumpf is a terrible businessman by any objective standard, and that he's nothing but a conman. She summarily rejected everything I had to say; now we rarely speak. Oh, and she loves Drumpf because of his stance on immigration, even though she's an immigrant herself. Classic case of I got mine, fark you! Her family used a Jewish relocation program to flee post-Soviet Russia (and I do mean used since no one in that family knows squat about Judaism). Sounds to me like they gained entry into this country under false pretenses, but whatever.
 
2020-10-26 9:48:53 AM  

Nah'mean: mrshowrules: Finding out someone's values is key.  Most Trumpers are basically bigots/racists.  That's there driving motivation and what Trump tapped into.

Many won't outright admit.  They will cite Trump's business skills and that he "tells it like it is".  He's a straight talker, they will say.

If nothing else, I would try and dispel the myth that he is a good businessman but it his hard to something with facts when they don't believe any of the facts.

When it appears someone's core operating principle is stigginit to the libs, there's really not much to work with. I tried on several occasions n to tell the person who was my best friend at one time that Drumpf is a terrible businessman by any objective standard, and that he's nothing but a conman. She summarily rejected everything I had to say; now we rarely speak. Oh, and she loves Drumpf because of his stance on immigration, even though she's an immigrant herself. Classic case of I got mine, fark you! Her family used a Jewish relocation program to flee post-Soviet Russia (and I do mean used since no one in that family knows squat about Judaism). Sounds to me like they gained entry into this country under false pretenses, but whatever.


Well, if she believes "f$ck you, I got mine", she's voting for the right party.  It will eventually bit her in the ass - but hey, what can you do about that.  Trump's support is more a cult/religious nature than anything else.
 
2020-10-26 9:49:06 AM  
Or, just mention this to them. MAGA is not a new word

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 9:52:55 AM  

Psychopusher: UberDave: Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.

My elderly aunt got C19 back in may because she still believed this thing to be hoax and hype so she went to church choir practice.  She was in the hospital for a week and is *still* on oxygen at home and says this is all "God's will".  *That's* not dire enough for her (or her husband) to understand they are listening to bullshiat.

I think by and large the deeply religious almost all fall into the category of those who can never be turned.  Most of them have already made up their mind that Trump is sent by God and is therefore infallible; everything he says or does is, by extension, God's will, as are any consequences resulting from that belief.  These are lost causes on whom no energy should be wasted trying to convince them otherwsie, as any attempts to puncture the bubble of their worldview will only result in them retreating further into their bubble.

I'm sure there are a few deeply religious folks who might see the light, but I suspect their numbers are so few as to be not worth the herculean effort of finding.

OTOH, my Trump-voting neighbors slowly realized this is bullshiat back in late Spring.  Something broke (wife first and I think husband has come around) and now she's telling me stories about flipping off Trump-supporting non-mask wearers.

Good for them.  While I still wonder what took them so damn long, it's nevertheless heartening to see a real change of heart when it matters.


I have a Trump fan aunt who I love dearly, but I've given up on reaching. The problem is that her fandom hinges on abortion, and works out from there. She will attach herself to the anti-abortion candidate, and then to justify it go all-in on that person is sent by god, and their opponents are of the devil. Literally anything is forgivable or dismissable after that. And it kills me, but I have no idea how to break through that.
 
2020-10-26 10:03:01 AM  
That's a lot of words to say:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 10:06:33 AM  
"Get out and don't come back until you pull your head from your ass."


Conservatives, more than anything, what to believe they're the majority.  It's why they turned so hard and quick on gay marriage.  The  moment they felt like they were the weirdos, they changed their mind.

But this is also why they're so keen on embracing conspiracy theories.    So their defeat has to be overwhelming and incontrovertible.
 
2020-10-26 10:08:36 AM  

fruitloop: That's a lot of words to say:

[Fark user image image 498x286]


Laughing at them doesn't work very well. Want a case study that proves it? Just look at Cleveland Browns fans... the fact that they still exist is proof that laughing at someone's idiotic support of a terrible group won't change their mind.
 
2020-10-26 10:08:41 AM  
Er ... tell them to go fark themselves. Same as what you say to the good republicans in TLP?

They hate the CIC. But they love the racism and inequality. And the ooey-gooey warm tax cuts.

But they live across the street from you and they once waved so they're ok.
 
2020-10-26 10:10:44 AM  
Barb wired baseball bat?
 
2020-10-26 10:11:55 AM  
If religious people could be convinced they are wrong with logical argument, they wouldn't be religious.

So...

If a Trump supporter is also religious, don't bother.
 
2020-10-26 10:12:21 AM  
Small words?
 
2020-10-26 10:12:55 AM  
Evangelical Christianity basically prepped so many of these people to be ready for a personality cult like trumpism. Evangelism is a personality cult at its core anyhow, so these rubes were primed for a psychopath like trump to come along and take advantage. These folks will, by and large, never give up on trumpism because trumpism and modern EC are essentially the same.

Just read any prosperity gospel garbage and you will see that these folks have been waiting for a trump for a while now. Keep in mind, they are Christians in name only.
 
2020-10-26 10:13:00 AM  

DarnoKonrad: Conservatives, more than anything, what to believe they're the majority.


This is so key. "Well a lot of people think ..."

Eat shiat and die. If popular opinion mattered McDonald's would be the best restaurant in America and Journey would be the greatest rock band. The Bill of Rights exists solely to stop morons like you from making non-white suburbanites illegal.
 
2020-10-26 10:13:06 AM  
I have no time in my life for anyone who supports the orange menace. Period.
It's not a political decision, it's a moral one.
 
2020-10-26 10:13:22 AM  
If Trump loses the next election, do you think the MAGA people will get a bunch of sanctimonious lectures about the need to "reach-out to" and sympathetically "understand" the Biden supporters?
 
2020-10-26 10:13:31 AM  
It's my hope that a big loss for Trump will shake some of the Trumpers loose from the cult, (or at least make them more responsive to discussion and reflection on the last four years.)

Trump is an authoritarian leader. Redhats are authoritarian followers, in the Bob Altemeyer sense. One of the things about Authoritarian followers is that they justify their allegiance to the leader simply on the basis of his power and success. When Trump supporters celebrate Trump "sticking it to the libs," at the core of it they're celebrating the fact that Trump has the power to do something liberals don't like and they're powerless to stop him.

However, if Trump loses soundly, (and actually leaves office in disgrace,) that mental refuge of being on the winning side goes away, no matter how much whining he does on the way out.

Trumpism obviously isn't going anywhere even if Trump loses; a strong enough cult can survive a failed apocalypse prophecy or the death of the leader. However, it will also cause some people to reflect on what went wrong, and it's then that they can be reached. It's then that they may be faced with the choice to be less shiatty people, and wise word in that moment can help them make the right decision.

I hope so, anyway.
 
2020-10-26 10:13:35 AM  
Show them this video
 
2020-10-26 10:14:38 AM  

UberDave: Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.


Anyone who wasn't turned by the last four years is unturnable.

The only way to treat a Trump Supporter in 2020 is as you active enemy out to destroy you and everything you believe in.
 
2020-10-26 10:15:18 AM  
sounds like I am doing all the work for someone with a third grade grasp on reality. no thanks. how about I do not talk to them.
 
2020-10-26 10:16:11 AM  

mrshowrules: Many won't outright admit.  They will cite Trump's business skills and that he "tells it like it is".  He's a straight talker, they will say.

If nothing else, I would try and dispel the myth that he is a good businessman but it his hard to something with facts when they don't believe any of the facts.


Trump was a punching-bag for the right at least as much as he was for the left, for decades. It wasn't really partisan. He was everyone's go-to example for a shady, crappy businessman who inexplicably (ahem, money laundering or god knows what else, was always kinda the reading-between-the-lines meaning here) fails upward. I'd say that was his main role in pop culture. For decades.

So yeah, anyone who suddenly decided he's a good businessman and a straight-shooter because he's on a ballot with an R next to his name is unlikely to be persuaded if all those other years of their lives didn't do it. It's not like he was considered credible by anyone before he started talking about running as a Republican.
 
2020-10-26 10:16:42 AM  
When he loses and he leaves, however loudly he complains, the cult will be dealt a major blow. While they are in disarray, we cant let them coalesce around some other psychopath who decides to run as a neo -Trump in 2024 and beyond. True believes should never hold office again, but that's wishful thinking.

We have to keep the lines of communication open and chip the orange dust off their minds one layer at a time.

We've taken a major step back with Trump, I now it's time for America to move forward again. 🇺🇸
 
2020-10-26 10:17:01 AM  

UberDave: Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.

My elderly aunt got C19 back in may because she still believed this thing to be hoax and hype so she went to church choir practice.  She was in the hospital for a week and is *still* on oxygen at home and says this is all "God's will".  *That's* not dire enough for her (or her husband) to understand they are listening to bullshiat.

OTOH, my Trump-voting neighbors slowly realized this is bullshiat back in late Spring.  Something broke (wife first and I think husband has come around) and now she's telling me stories about flipping off Trump-supporting non-mask wearers.


As I've said before, there certainly are a lot of people who voted for Trump in 2016 who regret their decision. They aren't his base, and they've been alienated since day one of the Trump presidency. Their motives for voting for him are borne mostly out of ignorance of the man and indifference to the position he was elected too. If nothing else, Trump has taught a large number of unmotivated people to educate themselves and care more about the elections.

On the other hand, does anybody here know of a single person who voted for Hillary in the last election who will be voting for Trump? I didn't think so. Trump has done absolutely nothing to convince anybody but his base to vote for him, and for his base, the bar is set so low, as Trump himself put it: "he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and they'd vote for him" - if he was at all self-aware, he'd realize how damning that statement was about himself and the people who stroke his ego at all those rallies.

If you manage to buy a house, and spend all your time tearing it down, don't expect it to keep the water off your head when it rains.
 
2020-10-26 10:17:02 AM  
I pretty much stick with "FOAD" and occasionally toss in a "loser" at the end.  Of course, I don't always say it out loud, but I imply and give the impression that that's what I think of their worldview.  I've learned, a lot the hard way, that these people are in a cult and reality or facts will not penetrate their shield.  If they are still in my life then I have failed to offend them enough.  I probably should consider a few more expletives and a touch of blasphemy to piss off the "religious" MAGA relatives.
 
2020-10-26 10:17:23 AM  
De-Trumpification will be a long and difficult task. In government administration alone, quite aside from winning over hearts and minds.
 
2020-10-26 10:17:29 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: It's my hope that a big loss for Trump will shake some of the Trumpers loose from the cult, (or at least make them more responsive to discussion and reflection on the last four years.)


A big loss is just going to be proof that the deep state aligned to steal the election from him.  They're not going to know anyone that voted against him, so they're going to refuse to believe those people are out there.  The only way that any progress will be made on them is if Republicans start losing across the board, but I don't see that happening.
 
2020-10-26 10:19:21 AM  

The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler: I have no time in my life for anyone who supports the orange menace. Period.
It's not a political decision, it's a moral one.


This.

With the exception of my mother and brother, I have permanently parted ways from every Trump supporter in my life. I have zero interest in trying to "reach out" to them. Once they made it clear to me they were fine with kids being torn from their parents and thrown into cages, I consider them beyond all hope.

And even if in the event they do come around and see the error of their ways, fark 'em. Too late. They have shown me that they willingly support evil as long as it is "their guy" who is doing it.

Fortunately, my mother and brother never bring up politics when I'm around, so I pretend they are never-Trumpers.
 
2020-10-26 10:19:33 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: UberDave: Well, there's two types of them - Those that can be turned and those that never will be unless the most dire (by their definition) happens to them.

Anyone who wasn't turned by the last four years is unturnable.

The only way to treat a Trump Supporter in 2020 is as you active enemy out to destroy you and everything you believe in.


well it is my mom....
my dad died (thankfully)
we tend not to go into politics but it ALWAYS starts with 'you know how they are' literally always. cut down the phone calls to twice a month. I have my limits.
 
2020-10-26 10:19:40 AM  

AtomPeepers: When he loses and he leaves, however loudly he complains, the cult will be dealt a major blow. While they are in disarray, we cant let them coalesce around some other psychopath who decides to run as a neo -Trump in 2024 and beyond. True believes should never hold office again, but that's wishful thinking.

We have to keep the lines of communication open and chip the orange dust off their minds one layer at a time.

We've taken a major step back with Trump, I now it's time for America to move forward again. 🇺🇸



President Tom Cotton is going to kill us all.  Trump is a joke, but his candidacy proved there's a voting base for white nationalism.

When Trump leaves office, is when we enter an even more dangerous time.
 
2020-10-26 10:20:06 AM  
My a]roach: "fark you, catch covid"
 
2020-10-26 10:20:18 AM  
I have some family and friends who support him because...
1. He isn't a real politician so he will make it right
2. Got stop those abortions
3. i'm a republican. I have to vote him
 
2020-10-26 10:20:32 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: It's my hope that a big loss for Trump will shake some of the Trumpers loose from the cult, (or at least make them more responsive to discussion and reflection on the last four years.)

Trump is an authoritarian leader. Redhats are authoritarian followers, in the Bob Altemeyer sense. One of the things about Authoritarian followers is that they justify their allegiance to the leader simply on the basis of his power and success. When Trump supporters celebrate Trump "sticking it to the libs," at the core of it they're celebrating the fact that Trump has the power to do something liberals don't like and they're powerless to stop him.

However, if Trump loses soundly, (and actually leaves office in disgrace,) that mental refuge of being on the winning side goes away, no matter how much whining he does on the way out.

Trumpism obviously isn't going anywhere even if Trump loses; a strong enough cult can survive a failed apocalypse prophecy or the death of the leader. However, it will also cause some people to reflect on what went wrong, and it's then that they can be reached. It's then that they may be faced with the choice to be less shiatty people, and wise word in that moment can help them make the right decision.

I hope so, anyway.


It's pretty likely. Repub's only like a winner. My dad, a life-long R and Trump supporter is already reading the writing on the wall and has switched from 'Trump is perfect' to 'Libs are going to ruin  everything'. He's openly suggesting he needs to leave the country and how Melania will divorce him the second he loses. It's going to be like how W is all but forgotten. There will of course still be some remaining supporters because they are in a gaddamn cult.
 
2020-10-26 10:20:58 AM  
My wife is on a group chat with a bunch of friends from high school. 1 of their moms voted Trump in 16 and GOP for her entire life. Voted Biden. 2 others have significant others that voted straight Dem ticket for the first times in their lives.

It gives me a small amount of hope.
 
2020-10-26 10:21:15 AM  

Windle Poons: If religious people could be convinced they are wrong with logical argument, they wouldn't be religious.

So...

If a Trump supporter is also religious, don't bother.


Or if being a Trump supporter is their religion.
 
2020-10-26 10:21:36 AM  

Godscrack: Or, just mention this to them. MAGA is not a new word

[Fark user image image 292x800]


"MAGA" also happens to be a word which, in Japanese, means "disaster/calamity".



This means nothing, I'm sure.
 
2020-10-26 10:22:00 AM  

gunga galunga: The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler: I have no time in my life for anyone who supports the orange menace. Period.
It's not a political decision, it's a moral one.

This.

With the exception of my mother and brother, I have permanently parted ways from every Trump supporter in my life. I have zero interest in trying to "reach out" to them. Once they made it clear to me they were fine with kids being torn from their parents and thrown into cages, I consider them beyond all hope.

And even if in the event they do come around and see the error of their ways, fark 'em. Too late. They have shown me that they willingly support evil as long as it is "their guy" who is doing it.

Fortunately, my mother and brother never bring up politics when I'm around, so I pretend they are never-Trumpers.


I'm transgender, so once they made it clear my rights were secondary to whatever bullshiat they were peddling it was time to cut all ties and not look back.
 
2020-10-26 10:22:15 AM  
I am disappointed at how much a few of my friends still support trump.  Like really support him.  I'm not going to bother getting into an argument with them over it.  This will all be over soon one way or another.

If he is re-elected, I'll be tuning out of current events and politics news and hunkering down.  My little brain wouldn't be able to handle keeping up with things for the next 4 years if he's still there.
 
2020-10-26 10:22:55 AM  

Dahnkster: [preview.redd.it image 640x359]


I think that's going to be slipped inside at least one Christmas card I send this year...
 
2020-10-26 10:23:24 AM  
No.  They're rotten and have exposed themselves as motally, spiritually, and intellectually deficient, or at the very least, intellectually disingenuous.  You don't negotiate with something like that.  You move away from it.  And if you can't move away from it, you eliminate it before it can intentionally infect you with a chronic-to-deadly disease.
 
2020-10-26 10:23:28 AM  

pueblonative: Barb wired baseball bat?


wow! I quite literally was thinking the same thing just now. Except mine was an axe handle with a 6" piece of schedule 80 pipe fastened to the end. Either one is a mighty fine tool to make people see the errors of their line of thought.
 
2020-10-26 10:23:39 AM  
Every time I have a conversation with a trumper I get nothing but 'whataboutism', it's pointless.  I just treat them like a rapid bobcat and stay the hell away.
 
2020-10-26 10:24:00 AM  
If we take Congress and the Presidency, we don't have to talk to them. We can crack down on them.
 
2020-10-26 10:25:10 AM  

GanjSmokr: I am disappointed at how much a few of my friends still support trump.  Like really support him.  I'm not going to bother getting into an argument with them over it.  This will all be over soon one way or another.

If he is re-elected, I'll be tuning out of current events and politics news and hunkering down.  My little brain wouldn't be able to handle keeping up with things for the next 4 years if he's still there.


How do you remain friends with such people? They need to be some mixture of fantastically stupid and screamingly racist to support that clown.

Are they really fun to play MarioKart with, or something?
 
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