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(PlugShare)   A quarter of electric vehicle owners install home 208-240V charging stations themselves, probably while standing in a puddle   (newsroom.plugshare.com) divider line
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655 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 25 Oct 2020 at 11:35 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-25 7:52:54 PM  
Well, that is a shocking statistic.
 
2020-10-25 7:53:58 PM  
Honest tag. anyway.
 
2020-10-25 7:59:09 PM  
Probably amped for the faster charging.
 
2020-10-25 8:02:18 PM  
Good to keep up with current news.
 
2020-10-25 8:08:08 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Good to keep up with current news.


There's a surprising amount of resistance to that.
 
2020-10-25 8:09:16 PM  
It's safe if the main breaker is off.
 
2020-10-25 8:27:48 PM  

revrendjim: Carter Pewterschmidt: Good to keep up with current news.

There's a surprising amount of resistance to that.


Watt?
 
2020-10-25 8:30:47 PM  
 I always done me own electricals in me own 'ohm.
 
2020-10-25 9:15:35 PM  
Do they ohm their own homes?
 
2020-10-25 9:44:31 PM  
Not very hard.  The hardest part for me would be fishing the wiring.
 
2020-10-25 11:30:21 PM  

dionysusaur: It's safe if the main breaker is off.


Until they turn it on after using the wrong gauge wire.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2020-10-25 11:43:31 PM  
208, 240, whatever works.
 
2020-10-25 11:45:17 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: revrendjim: Carter Pewterschmidt: Good to keep up with current news.

There's a surprising amount of resistance to that.

Watt?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-25 11:47:57 PM  
This just in: early adopters of new technology tend to be technologically savvy. Over to you, Ric.
 
2020-10-25 11:48:19 PM  
Who are the weirdo home owners with 3 phase service?
 
2020-10-25 11:58:27 PM  

ChiliBoots: Who are the weirdo home owners with 3 phase service?


I've seen 208Y for stoves/AC/dryer in some 3-4 unit condos.  So, I guess you might install a charger on it in the attached garage.
 
2020-10-26 12:04:15 AM  

433: 208, 240, whatever works.


Whatever it takes.
 
2020-10-26 12:12:08 AM  
Not me.

I've added circuits with 8 outlets in an unfinished upstairs and added a couple of plugs elsewhere, but I wouldn't do that.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2020-10-26 12:17:39 AM  

majestic: 433: 208, 240, whatever works.

Whatever it takes.


*facepalm*
 
2020-10-26 12:27:10 AM  
Wonder what their homeowners insurance thinks about that
 
2020-10-26 12:36:07 AM  
The SO and I had the house upgraded to 200 amp service in the spring. We mentioned to the guy doing it that she may want to get an EV and we'd be looking at putting in a charger in the garage. He said if I went and got the wire and receptacle box for it while he was working on replacing the panel he'd put it in free while he was there.

/csb
 
2020-10-26 12:54:05 AM  

ChiliBoots: Who are the weirdo home owners with 3 phase service?


All germans.
 
2020-10-26 1:04:19 AM  
What I don't get is why they think they need a fast charger at all?  I have an eGolf that has around 150 miles to the charge and if I run it around all day, as long as I park it in the early afternoon and overnight, I'm basically back to full in about 20 hours on a household outlet.

Oh wait...Teslas.
 
2020-10-26 1:20:30 AM  

Outlawtsar: What I don't get is why they think they need a fast charger at all?  I have an eGolf that has around 150 miles to the charge and if I run it around all day, as long as I park it in the early afternoon and overnight, I'm basically back to full in about 20 hours on a household outlet.

Oh wait...Teslas.


Well, as the range starts getting up into the 250-300 mile range, 120V charging is a pretty slow option for home charging (usually around 4 miles of range per hour). You really need 240V for home charging to be workable with an EV with a larger battery, unless you just don't do much driving at all and can leave it plugged in for days at a time.
 
2020-10-26 3:38:59 AM  

ChiliBoots: Who are the weirdo home owners with 3 phase service?


Most houses in the USA get "120/240V AC Split" service:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service​_​drop#North_American

This is a nice rundown:
http://thecircuitdetective.com/bkgrd.​p​hp

The consumer side of the pole transformer is set up with a center tap, and the number of turns is set to provide 240V across the ends of the winding (then 120V between each end and the center tap). There are three wires to the house: red, black, and white. (Hot+, Hot-, and neutral, respectively -- although the "+" and "-" are just something I add on for my own brain -- it's AC so obviously both go both positive and negative, but they're opposite phase from each other.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri​c​al_wiring_in_North_America

You can see the service drop wires coming in at the top of this photo:
Fark user imageView Full Size


So most circuits go: hot (red or black) -> circuit breaker -> circuit -> appliance -> circuit -> neutral (white).
These usually max out at 20A, so can deliver a max of about 2400W per circuit at 120V.

Large appliances instead use: hot -> breaker -> circuit -> appliance -> circuit -> other hot. These are usually rated 40-50A, so these deliver instead 9.6-12kW to the appliance (hence their use for circuits driving heavy loads: electric dryers / ovens / stovetops / furnaces, and also electric car chargers).

You can see how the bus bars arranged within the service box, and how "single-wide" circuit breakers connect to just one bus bar, while "double-wide" connect to both bars. There's a little tab that comes up from each bus bar, which is engaged by circuit breakers on both sides.

Fark user imageView Full Size


That last pic doesn't have any actual double-pole breakers (other than the main service disconnect). This one is really nicely done:

Fark user imageView Full Size


From the top:

* Notice no main breaker/fuse/disconnect -- so this is a subpanel.
* The top 10 breakers (5 on each side) are single-pole GFCI breakers (straight white/black to circuits (neutral/hot resp), coiled white to neutral (or ground?))
* The next 2 (1 on each side) are single-pole non-GFCI breakers; straight black is hot to the circuit, while the straight white is likely terminated elsewhere on the neutral bus (top right, maybe?)
* The next 4 (2 on each side) are double-pole, non-GFCI breakers: note they have both red and black wires going out (both hot, but opposite polarity), and their return neutral is also terminated straight to the netural bus (again, upper right I think).
* The last 3 things on the bottom of the right side are something I don't recognize offhand. Single-bus split circuits? Apparently so: "tandem" breakers, which can create two circuits from one bus-bar slot, if the panel is designed for it. (Notice they each have two black "hots" going out; the inbound white "neutrals" are again terminated on the neutral bus)

(The "black for single, black+red only for double" is a bit of a luxury; I more often see black and red alternating hots, with a shared white neutral -- that means you only have to pull a single 3-conductor cable, vs. running two 2-conductor cables. Not as pretty, though. Done right it can indicate which leg of the house supply is on that cable (so the black and red in-house wiring can match the inbound black/red lines), which could be helpful in some cases?)
 
2020-10-26 3:56:37 AM  

The Googles Do Nothing: Not very hard.  The hardest part for me would be fishing the wiring.


Yeah I regret the $1k I spent when it wound up the dude ran an external conduit along the garage wall and didn't even fish it. I should have DIY like these other folks.
 
2020-10-26 4:12:03 AM  
tkil; that's a nice looking box. I like to do my wiring similarly. I don't get the coiled white wires though. They're crappy inductors but they are still adding L to the line. Do you know why?
 
2020-10-26 4:28:59 AM  

baxterdog: tkil; that's a nice looking box. I like to do my wiring similarly. I don't get the coiled white wires though. They're crappy inductors but they are still adding L to the line. Do you know why?


For code reasons you are not supposed to splice the neutral from the GFCI breaker to the common bus bar.  So the extra wire that comes with the breaker is left coiled up in case the breaker needs to be moved to a different slot in the panel later.  If the wire was cut to length, then you would limit the flexibility to update breaker layout.
 
2020-10-26 4:57:34 AM  

Outlawtsar: What I don't get is why they think they need a fast charger at all?  I have an eGolf that has around 150 miles to the charge and if I run it around all day, as long as I park it in the early afternoon and overnight, I'm basically back to full in about 20 hours on a household outlet.

Oh wait...Teslas.


People that don't have 20 hours to wait for their car to charge.
 
2020-10-26 6:42:35 AM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 7:16:14 AM  
I had a 240 arc blast on a light fixture about 9 or so feet up in a home depot pump room because I trusted someone when they told me the power was killed. Honestly one of the top 5 scariest moments of my life. I think ill always remember it

People that can afford EV are usually wealthy and educated. Im actually not surprised a quarter of EV owners surveyed put it in themselves. Likely because they could put it in themselves. They have knowledge and know how to apply it.
 
2020-10-26 7:46:03 AM  

MizzouFTW: I had a 240 arc blast on a light fixture about 9 or so feet up in a home depot pump room because I trusted someone when they told me the power was killed. Honestly one of the top 5 scariest moments of my life. I think ill always remember it

People that can afford EV are usually wealthy and educated. Im actually not surprised a quarter of EV owners surveyed put it in themselves. Likely because they could put it in themselves. They have knowledge and know how to apply it.


I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.  I used to do a lot of my own electrical work for years until I realized I should have an electrician handle it instead.  Why?  I don't have the time to become an expert in everything, my knowledge needed for calculating potential loads for a circuit is limited (again, knowledge plus time to learn), and the electrical code is constantly evolving.  The money spent hiring a skilled electrician who takes pride in his/her work is money well spent.  I'm not worried about arc faults or over-taxing a circuit.  I take the time to explain what I need done, how I want it done right (no cutting corners) and what potential future needs could be.  The guy who installed my 200-Amp box several years ago likes that I appreciate the skills required of his trade, so has always gone the extra mile for work done to my house.

I wouldn't trust a home outlet installed by a DIYer for anything.  Case in point: I had one outlet in my home's kitchen that didn't work when we bought the house.  Weeks later, while installing a new light fixture, I couldn't figure out why I kept getting bit by the ground wire.  Not long after, I decided to diagnose the outlet that wasn't working.  Turns out some genius wires the neutral on the same pole as the black.
 
2020-10-26 7:55:35 AM  
Other nations in the world have native 220 at the outlet all the time. So watt's the big deal?
 
2020-10-26 8:07:34 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: MizzouFTW: I had a 240 arc blast on a light fixture about 9 or so feet up in a home depot pump room because I trusted someone when they told me the power was killed. Honestly one of the top 5 scariest moments of my life. I think ill always remember it

People that can afford EV are usually wealthy and educated. Im actually not surprised a quarter of EV owners surveyed put it in themselves. Likely because they could put it in themselves. They have knowledge and know how to apply it.

I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.  I used to do a lot of my own electrical work for years until I realized I should have an electrician handle it instead.  Why?  I don't have the time to become an expert in everything, my knowledge needed for calculating potential loads for a circuit is limited (again, knowledge plus time to learn), and the electrical code is constantly evolving.  The money spent hiring a skilled electrician who takes pride in his/her work is money well spent.  I'm not worried about arc faults or over-taxing a circuit.  I take the time to explain what I need done, how I want it done right (no cutting corners) and what potential future needs could be.  The guy who installed my 200-Amp box several years ago likes that I appreciate the skills required of his trade, so has always gone the extra mile for work done to my house.

I wouldn't trust a home outlet installed by a DIYer for anything.  Case in point: I had one outlet in my home's kitchen that didn't work when we bought the house.  Weeks later, while installing a new light fixture, I couldn't figure out why I kept getting bit by the ground wire.  Not long after, I decided to diagnose the outlet that wasn't working.  Turns out some genius wires the neutral on the same pole as the black.


I would say you're right.
BTW that is exactly why I dont do residential. I do Industrial. Almost everything I touch can kill me. It makes for a safer job site in my opinion.

Versus residential where you agree to install a replacement ceiling fan for free only to end up having to rewire the farker from there to the switch so his home doesn't burn down.
 
2020-10-26 8:12:55 AM  

Outlawtsar: What I don't get is why they think they need a fast charger at all?  I have an eGolf that has around 150 miles to the charge and if I run it around all day, as long as I park it in the early afternoon and overnight, I'm basically back to full in about 20 hours on a household outlet.

Oh wait...Teslas.


You might want to do the math on that again.
 
2020-10-26 8:18:41 AM  
So, OK, why is this in "fandom" instead of "STEM".   Clearly more in the Science, Technology, Engineering, Math realm than simply fandom.
 
2020-10-26 9:30:37 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.


This. Electricity, particularly 240V, is not to be trifled with. The problem is that people don't appreciate they're endangering themselves and others for as long as their "work" remains in place . It's the same with gas, plumbing, and HVAC.

/ Subby
 
2020-10-26 10:22:45 AM  

433: 208, 240, whatever works.


240 for residential, 208 for whoever has 3 phase, 3 cans.   Light 3 phase is 2 can, 120 / 240 / high leg.. be careful with that.... use copper wire, one gauge larger than code, due to length of time and amp draw.. 40 amp breaker, #6 stranded copper.   prevents overheating.
 
2020-10-26 10:27:29 AM  
media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-26 10:29:59 AM  

ChiliBoots: Who are the weirdo home owners with 3 phase service?


Owners of mega- houses....  save bucks by running 3 phase HVAC...
 
2020-10-26 10:32:13 AM  

MizzouFTW: People that can afford EV are usually wealthy and educated. I'm actually not surprised a quarter of EV owners surveyed put it in themselves. Likely because they could put it in themselves. They have knowledge and know how to apply it.


Made me think of this classic video, dunno if you've seen it before.  I'm pretty sure it was a cherry-picking job, but still funny.

MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery.
Youtube aIhk9eKOLzQ
 
2020-10-26 11:27:16 AM  

mtrac: Chief Superintendent Lookout: I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.

This. Electricity, particularly 240V, is not to be trifled with. The problem is that people don't appreciate they're endangering themselves and others for as long as their "work" remains in place . It's the same with gas, plumbing, and HVAC.

/ Subby


None of the trades are rocket surgery.   In some places anyone willing to pull wires for a summer and do what they are told for a few more months can call themselves an electrician.  It takes about the same amount of experience for plumbing, hvac and gas fitting.  Attention to detail and the ability to read the codes and understand why they exist is what will elevate you from helper to journeyman to master.

I am doing renovations on my house.  If I have one or two circuits to run I'll do it myself.  Same with plumbing and gas piping.  I replaced condenser fans and blower motors and contactors in my hvac.  If you understand how and why stuff works and can read a meter you can do it to.  The difference between my work and professionals is I take longer to do the job, because I onky want to do it once.  When I have the time I do it myself.  And thanks to covid, I have a lot of time.

Careful where you put your trust.  Professionals screw up too.  That's one reason why I prefer to do my own work when I can.
 
2020-10-26 11:31:39 AM  
Normally I would call out anyone saying people can't do their own home electrical work as bootlickers, but these days...I think Trump is proving their are a loooot of stupid people in this country, so I'll side with the electrical workers.
 
2020-10-26 12:08:53 PM  
I would do it. When I bought my house the basement was unfinished, with a single outlet down there. The garage had one outlet. When I wired the garage and basement, I added 8 new circuits. The permit application showed all the new circuits and outlet locations, and the ceiling light locations. I 2009, my city was the only one in the state using the 2008 NEC. Every other city was using 2005 NEC, so I needed arcfault breakers on everything I touched (and breakers for two pole edison circuits had to be ordered, as no one stocked them at the time). I found one code violation from the original builders (too many cables in a circular ceiling box in the basement). I had to do some rerouting to get everything up to code. Also, one of the arcfault breakers I installed was defective. It tripped and defrosted a full freezer in the basement twice. Troubleshooting it was PITA. Moved it to the shop light circuit, and if the lights were on, 1 out of every 5 times the landline phone rang with the lights on, it would trip the breaker. Replaced with a new breaker and haven't had a problem for 10 years.
When the inspector checked my work, he complemented me on the job.
 
2020-10-26 12:26:36 PM  
QFarker:Careful where you put your trust.  Professionals screw up too.  That's one reason why I prefer to do my own work when I can.

Do you pull permits?
 
2020-10-26 12:27:49 PM  

QFarker: mtrac: Chief Superintendent Lookout: I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.

This. Electricity, particularly 240V, is not to be trifled with. The problem is that people don't appreciate they're endangering themselves and others for as long as their "work" remains in place . It's the same with gas, plumbing, and HVAC.

/ Subby

None of the trades are rocket surgery.   In some places anyone willing to pull wires for a summer and do what they are told for a few more months can call themselves an electrician.  It takes about the same amount of experience for plumbing, hvac and gas fitting.  Attention to detail and the ability to read the codes and understand why they exist is what will elevate you from helper to journeyman to master.

I am doing renovations on my house.  If I have one or two circuits to run I'll do it myself.  Same with plumbing and gas piping.  I replaced condenser fans and blower motors and contactors in my hvac.  If you understand how and why stuff works and can read a meter you can do it to.  The difference between my work and professionals is I take longer to do the job, because I onky want to do it once.  When I have the time I do it myself.  And thanks to covid, I have a lot of time.

Careful where you put your trust.  Professionals screw up too.  That's one reason why I prefer to do my own work when I can.


I agree. Education is key. Learn the building codes used by your city, if only to check the work if you hire it out. It also pays to understand how your appliances work. I do all my own work. Last week the dryer stopped heating. First stop on the schematic was the thermal fuse providing power to the gas valve. Yep, open fuse. Fixed for $5. Similar stories over the years for the washer and dishwasher with leaking valves.
I installed my own A/C. After 25 years, it started to intermittently not turn on the compressor. Meter said thermostat wasn't telling it to come on. Replaced thermostat. Meter said that was bad, so returned it ( it was actually defective) and put the old one back in. Problem was still there. Wire tracing showed that one of the wires originally installed was broken and intermittently making contact. Shortened all 4 wires 6" and reconnected. Problem still there. Contactor tested OK, but looked somewhat corroded. Replaced on general principle, since it carried all the current to the condenser unit. Problem still there. Turned out it was the sealed solid state time delay relay in the condenser unit. It prevents the compressor from starting for 5 minutes after it loses power, to give it time for the pressures to even out. Has worked as expected for 5 years.
 
2020-10-26 12:32:05 PM  

mtrac: QFarker:Careful where you put your trust.  Professionals screw up too.  That's one reason why I prefer to do my own work when I can.

Do you pull permits?


Just a guess, but I would assume that if he takes the time to learn the building codes he would pull permits, if only to keep his homeowners insurance in force if the building burns down.
 
2020-10-26 12:50:48 PM  

QFarker: mtrac: Chief Superintendent Lookout: I think the word you're looking for is 'hubris', not 'knowledge'.

This. Electricity, particularly 240V, is not to be trifled with. The problem is that people don't appreciate they're endangering themselves and others for as long as their "work" remains in place . It's the same with gas, plumbing, and HVAC.

/ Subby

None of the trades are rocket surgery. In some places anyone willing to pull wires for a summer and do what they are told for a few more months can call themselves an electrician.  It takes about the same amount of experience for plumbing, hvac and gas fitting.  Attention to detail and the ability to read the codes and understand why they exist is what will elevate you from helper to journeyman to master.

I am doing renovations on my house.  If I have one or two circuits to run I'll do it myself.  Same with plumbing and gas piping.  I replaced condenser fans and blower motors and contactors in my hvac.  If you understand how and why stuff works and can read a meter you can do it to.  The difference between my work and professionals is I take longer to do the job, because I onky want to do it once.  When I have the time I do it myself.  And thanks to covid, I have a lot of time.

Careful where you put your trust.  Professionals screw up too.  That's one reason why I prefer to do my own work when I can.


Which is why my ex-wife's brother laughed at a woman who balked when he quoted her $1,500 for tile work in her kitchen.  She complain his price was too high, because she paid the previous guy $600 for tile work.  Note she wasn't happy with the job that guy did (it sucked) and she wanted it redone.  His response?  "Yep, and you got a $600 tile job as well."

Do you know the code and reasons for using fault interrupters, when not to use GFCI breakers, and how to ensure the system is bonded to earth?  Most people never even think about stuff like that.  I respect the work of the trades and know when to look for someone who will do quality work.  Pay once, cry once, get it done right the first time.  I'm not doing my own work because of my level of skill, I rely on their expertise, and I don't feel the need to spend a fortune for tools I won't use again.  Hell, I painted A LOT when I was in the Navy.  Anymore, I get my step-son to do any painting as he does that for a living.

Also, I don't trust Joe-schmo's DIY electric work.  Hell, go to the website for This Old House and look at the inspector nightmares section.  People can't even handle running duct work for gas operated furnaces and water heaters within code (or safety) compliance.
 
2020-10-26 3:28:09 PM  

Merltech: Other nations in the world have native 220 at the outlet all the time. So watt's the big deal?


Single wire 220... and , of course, the neutral....  they don't have 120v.   got a good bite to it, too... here, we have two 120v lines, with 240v between them.... they also have 50 Hertz, while we have 60 Hertz.. their motors run faster here, ours run slower there.
 
2020-10-26 4:41:13 PM  

OlderGuy: Merltech: Other nations in the world have native 220 at the outlet all the time. So watt's the big deal?

Single wire 220... and , of course, the neutral....  they don't have 120v.   got a good bite to it, too... here, we have two 120v lines, with 240v between them.... they also have 50 Hertz, while we have 60 Hertz.. their motors run faster here, ours run slower there.


When I (Australian) was working retail, I had a woman come into the shop wanting to buy a food mixer she'd bought from the US because it was significantly cheaper to buy it there and ship it over, than to buy it in Australia.

She came in, and asked for a step-down transformer...

I told her that I wasn't going to sell her one, listed the reasons why, and (apologetically) said that it was a false economy on her part.

She was definitely annoyed... But she couldn't even tell me the power it required, the largest transformer we had was ~$500, and I don't think it would have been big enough... And the step-down was one of the very few "We don't do refunds if you change your mind" items....
 
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