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(NFL)   Spain released from Buffalo Bills. France surrenders   (nfl.com) divider line
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265 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2020 at 7:55 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-22 6:49:51 AM  
What about Mr. England?
 
2020-10-22 8:07:18 AM  

kdawg7736: What about Mr. England?


Mr. England insists he doesn't even play the same sport as Mr. Spain and France.
 
2020-10-22 8:58:40 AM  
That is one ugly watch.

And one more case of contracts in the nfl not being worth the paper they are written on
 
2020-10-22 9:08:12 AM  
They just signed him to a 3-year deal after a really good performance last year.  Something wasn't right, there.
 
2020-10-22 9:08:29 AM  

Gubbo: That is one ugly watch.

And one more case of contracts in the nfl not being worth the paper they are written on


Jon Feliciano is coming back from injury and plays in his spot. Spain requested a release and the Bills gave it to him after finding no trade interest.
 
2020-10-22 9:15:04 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: That is one ugly watch.

And one more case of contracts in the nfl not being worth the paper they are written on

Jon Feliciano is coming back from injury and plays in his spot. Spain requested a release and the Bills gave it to him after finding no trade interest.


Literally don't care.

Contracts should be guaranteed
 
2020-10-22 9:20:22 AM  

Gubbo: Literally don't care.

Contracts should be guaranteed


His contact literally paid him $4.5 million guaranteed, and this was renegotiated this summer, so he made $4.5M this year regardless of whether he played or was even on the team anymore. Yeah, he's got it so rough.
 
2020-10-22 9:45:40 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: Literally don't care.

Contracts should be guaranteed

His contact literally paid him $4.5 million guaranteed, and this was renegotiated this summer, so he made $4.5M this year regardless of whether he played or was even on the team anymore. Yeah, he's got it so rough.


He signed a deal for $15 million.

Or at least that's the number we will pretend he signed. Yes, in the real world he signed for whatever the guaranteed number was and then we'll see after that.

No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that
 
2020-10-22 9:59:30 AM  

Gubbo: No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that


What in the world are you talking about?

If I get a job, they offer a salary to me. If I don't meet their requirements they can fire me, and none of my money is guaranteed. 

In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay. In NHL they can also be 'terminated for cause' in which case they lose their contract, or they can be bought out for a fraction of the salary.

NFL works like the real world, in that nothing is guaranteed in the workplace. Other leagues have better unions and bargainers it seems.
 
2020-10-22 10:03:35 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that

What in the world are you talking about?

If I get a job, they offer a salary to me. If I don't meet their requirements they can fire me, and none of my money is guaranteed. 

In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay. In NHL they can also be 'terminated for cause' in which case they lose their contract, or they can be bought out for a fraction of the salary.

NFL works like the real world, in that nothing is guaranteed in the workplace. Other leagues have better unions and bargainers it seems.


That's a salary. That's not a 2 or 3 year fixed term contract. But ok, perhaps putting in regular work was an overstatement there, that's more of a thing that you see for top the level C suite execs and not salaried workers.

And you're wrong about MLB. Contracts in MLB are fully guaranteed. If you sign for 5 years at X million, they are paying you at least X million over 5 years

/sometimes you can sign with the Mets and they will pay you much much more than that
 
2020-10-22 10:06:19 AM  

Gubbo: And you're wrong about MLB. Contracts in MLB are fully guaranteed. If you sign for 5 years at X million, they are paying you at least X million over 5 years


http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transaction​s​/guaranteed-contract
 
2020-10-22 10:06:41 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that

What in the world are you talking about?

If I get a job, they offer a salary to me. If I don't meet their requirements they can fire me, and none of my money is guaranteed. 

In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay. In NHL they can also be 'terminated for cause' in which case they lose their contract, or they can be bought out for a fraction of the salary.

NFL works like the real world, in that nothing is guaranteed in the workplace. Other leagues have better unions and bargainers it seems.


I can say that professional supercross / motocross works like the NFL.  Rider contracts with Company X.  Rider is guaranteed a base amount, and makes X amount more for each win he gets, and another bonus for the series championship after it concludes.  Default Rider-gets-X-amount for his contract does not motivate him to excel.
 
2020-10-22 10:09:59 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: phimuskapsi: Gubbo: No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that

What in the world are you talking about?

If I get a job, they offer a salary to me. If I don't meet their requirements they can fire me, and none of my money is guaranteed. 

In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay. In NHL they can also be 'terminated for cause' in which case they lose their contract, or they can be bought out for a fraction of the salary.

NFL works like the real world, in that nothing is guaranteed in the workplace. Other leagues have better unions and bargainers it seems.

I can say that professional supercross / motocross works like the NFL.  Rider contracts with Company X.  Rider is guaranteed a base amount, and makes X amount more for each win he gets, and another bonus for the series championship after it concludes.  Default Rider-gets-X-amount for his contract does not motivate him to excel.


Well, that is nothing like how the NFL works. For starters, you aren't allowed have win bonuses. I mean technically you have performance targets, but you can't tie them to winning.

I also disagree 100% with the bolded part.
 
2020-10-22 10:10:05 AM  

Gubbo: Contracts in MLB are fully guaranteed. If you sign for 5 years at X million, they are paying you at least X million over 5 years


That does not sound like fully-guaranteed to me.  Sounds like a base amount is guaranteed, but earnings can increase in the right circumstances.

Wait.  LeVeon Bell, is that you?
 
2020-10-22 10:10:50 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: And you're wrong about MLB. Contracts in MLB are fully guaranteed. If you sign for 5 years at X million, they are paying you at least X million over 5 years

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions​/guaranteed-contract


This is the example that MLB provided in the link you gave me.

Example
Right-hander Josh Johnson signed a one-year, $8 million contract with the Padres prior to the 2014 season. Despite the fact that he did not throw a single inning for the Padres, he earned the entirety of that $8 million because he had signed a Major League contract.
 
2020-10-22 10:11:57 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: And you're wrong about MLB. Contracts in MLB are fully guaranteed. If you sign for 5 years at X million, they are paying you at least X million over 5 years

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions​/guaranteed-contract


And also from your example

Players who obtain Major League contracts -- either via free agency or extensions -- are guaranteed the full amount of money promised by those contracts

The italics portion seems the most relevant here
 
2020-10-22 10:13:38 AM  

Gubbo: Well, that is nothing like how the NFL works. For starters, you aren't allowed have win bonuses. I mean technically you have performance targets, but you can't tie them to winning.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Yes, there are win clauses. Also, players get a significant bonus if they win the Super Bowl, $225,000 per winner. Losers get an additional $150k-ish.
 
2020-10-22 10:15:49 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: Well, that is nothing like how the NFL works. For starters, you aren't allowed have win bonuses. I mean technically you have performance targets, but you can't tie them to winning.

[Fark user image 593x328]

Yes, there are win clauses. Also, players get a significant bonus if they win the Super Bowl, $225,000 per winner. Losers get an additional $150k-ish.


Interesting. I thought win bonuses got outlawed after the Saints defense bounty thing. My bad.

Most players take a paycut on the Superbowl as you don't get paid your regular season salary for the game. That's more of an appearance fee.
 
2020-10-22 10:15:56 AM  

Gubbo: Dr Jack Badofsky: phimuskapsi: Gubbo: No other workplace in the world would work like that. No other american sport works like that

What in the world are you talking about?

If I get a job, they offer a salary to me. If I don't meet their requirements they can fire me, and none of my money is guaranteed. 

In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay. In NHL they can also be 'terminated for cause' in which case they lose their contract, or they can be bought out for a fraction of the salary.

NFL works like the real world, in that nothing is guaranteed in the workplace. Other leagues have better unions and bargainers it seems.

I can say that professional supercross / motocross works like the NFL.  Rider contracts with Company X.  Rider is guaranteed a base amount, and makes X amount more for each win he gets, and another bonus for the series championship after it concludes.  Default Rider-gets-X-amount for his contract does not motivate him to excel.

Well, that is nothing like how the NFL works. For starters, you aren't allowed have win bonuses. I mean technically you have performance targets, but you can't tie them to winning.

I also disagree 100% with the bolded part.


You're splitting hairs.  NFL players get x amount to play.  Some have incentives contracts that, if they pass certain benchmarks, they make more money.  Same as moto- supercross.  It would not surprise me that they get bonuses for Super Bowl wins.

Whether you believe it or not, the bolded part DOES work.  You jealous that a coworker finagled a better contract than you?  That's on you.
 
2020-10-22 10:20:41 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: You're splitting hairs.  NFL players get x amount to play.  Some have incentives contracts that, if they pass certain benchmarks, they make more money.  Same as moto- supercross.  It would not surprise me that they get bonuses for Super Bowl wins.

Whether you believe it or not, the bolded part DOES work.  You jealous that a coworker finagled a better contract than you?  That's on you.


Here's the thing. NFL players don't get X amount to play. They sign a contract, in this case worth $15 million. And then the team says "haha nope, just kidding".

Now you think thats' fine. And give your attitude towards performance metrics, I imagine that you agree with the team here. So be it.
 
2020-10-22 10:26:36 AM  

Gubbo: Dr Jack Badofsky: You're splitting hairs.  NFL players get x amount to play.  Some have incentives contracts that, if they pass certain benchmarks, they make more money.  Same as moto- supercross.  It would not surprise me that they get bonuses for Super Bowl wins.

Whether you believe it or not, the bolded part DOES work.  You jealous that a coworker finagled a better contract than you?  That's on you.

Here's the thing. NFL players don't get X amount to play. They sign a contract, in this case worth $15 million. And then the team says "haha nope, just kidding".

Now you think thats' fine. And give your attitude towards performance metrics, I imagine that you agree with the team here. So be it.


Well, this is a function of the salary cap. Most if not all NFL contracts have some amount of guaranteed money, how much that is varies. NFL teams cannot afford to pay a player $15 million if they do not use them, both because that value affects the hard cap, in this case $5 million per year against the cap is freed. There is dead money for next season, but it's far less than full contract cost.

MLB and NBA have no 'hard cap', and thus guaranteed contracts are much easier to handle.
 
2020-10-22 10:35:13 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: Dr Jack Badofsky: You're splitting hairs.  NFL players get x amount to play.  Some have incentives contracts that, if they pass certain benchmarks, they make more money.  Same as moto- supercross.  It would not surprise me that they get bonuses for Super Bowl wins.

Whether you believe it or not, the bolded part DOES work.  You jealous that a coworker finagled a better contract than you?  That's on you.

Here's the thing. NFL players don't get X amount to play. They sign a contract, in this case worth $15 million. And then the team says "haha nope, just kidding".

Now you think thats' fine. And give your attitude towards performance metrics, I imagine that you agree with the team here. So be it.

Well, this is a function of the salary cap. Most if not all NFL contracts have some amount of guaranteed money, how much that is varies. NFL teams cannot afford to pay a player $15 million if they do not use them, both because that value affects the hard cap, in this case $5 million per year against the cap is freed. There is dead money for next season, but it's far less than full contract cost.

MLB and NBA have no 'hard cap', and thus guaranteed contracts are much easier to handle.


An inability to manage the Cap is nothing to do with the player. And lets not pretend that the cap is a real limiting factor in the NFL. With the amount of manipulation with the cap, you can have a salary anywhere between 80% and 120% of the cap.

Lets take the Chiefs. They had a few hundred thousand in cap room. And then signed Mahomes and a bunch of other players.

Look, you can keep trying to justify things, and I can keep proving you wrong like with the example you provided for baseball, or you can say that you think it's fine to sign a contract and then have one side just not honor that contract.
 
2020-10-22 10:47:48 AM  

Gubbo: An inability to manage the Cap is nothing to do with the player. And lets not pretend that the cap is a real limiting factor in the NFL. With the amount of manipulation with the cap, you can have a salary anywhere between 80% and 120% of the cap.

Lets take the Chiefs. They had a few hundred thousand in cap room. And then signed Mahomes and a bunch of other players.

Look, you can keep trying to justify things, and I can keep proving you wrong like with the example you provided for baseball, or you can say that you think it's fine to sign a contract and then have one side just not honor that contract.


This is the last comment I'm going to make for awhile, because this thread is turning into you v. everyone else and I don't want to fill it up anymore.

In 2019 the Chiefs had $34M in cap space: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/ka​nsas-cit​y-chiefs/cap/2019/
In 2020 the Chiefs have $5M in cap space: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/ka​nsas-cit​y-chiefs/cap/

Mahomes cap hit was $5M for 2020 so that they could arrange things. Next year it jumps to 24M, then 31M, all the way up to $60M a year cap hit in 2027. https://overthecap.com/player/p​atrick-​mahomes/5594/

In 2020 NFL teams are required to use 89% of the cap, next year it will be 90%. You cannot go over. If you go over it's a $5M fine per violation and potential loss of draft capital. Cap is absolutely a limiting factor. There is no 'luxury tax' like other leagues.

Baseball can cut players before the season without guaranteed money being paid. They can trade them away after that or send them down to the minors (where they get a significant cut). 

I think you just have some misunderstanding on how all this stuff works, I don't think you are correct. I'm also not justifying anything - I have not stated whether or not if it is a good thing, I've stated facts, and provided links and examples to counter your arguments.
 
2020-10-22 10:52:59 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: An inability to manage the Cap is nothing to do with the player. And lets not pretend that the cap is a real limiting factor in the NFL. With the amount of manipulation with the cap, you can have a salary anywhere between 80% and 120% of the cap.

Lets take the Chiefs. They had a few hundred thousand in cap room. And then signed Mahomes and a bunch of other players.

Look, you can keep trying to justify things, and I can keep proving you wrong like with the example you provided for baseball, or you can say that you think it's fine to sign a contract and then have one side just not honor that contract.

This is the last comment I'm going to make for awhile, because this thread is turning into you v. everyone else and I don't want to fill it up anymore.

In 2019 the Chiefs had $34M in cap space: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kan​sas-city-chiefs/cap/2019/
In 2020 the Chiefs have $5M in cap space: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kan​sas-city-chiefs/cap/

Mahomes cap hit was $5M for 2020 so that they could arrange things. Next year it jumps to 24M, then 31M, all the way up to $60M a year cap hit in 2027. https://overthecap.com/player/pa​trick-mahomes/5594/

In 2020 NFL teams are required to use 89% of the cap, next year it will be 90%. You cannot go over. If you go over it's a $5M fine per violation and potential loss of draft capital. Cap is absolutely a limiting factor. There is no 'luxury tax' like other leagues.

Baseball can cut players before the season without guaranteed money being paid. They can trade them away after that or send them down to the minors (where they get a significant cut). 

I think you just have some misunderstanding on how all this stuff works, I don't think you are correct. I'm also not justifying anything - I have not stated whether or not if it is a good thing, I've stated facts, and provided links and examples to counter your arguments.


89% of the Cap - evaluated every 4 years. So yeah. Lots of wiggle room there
As for over the cap, with rolled over cap money etc, every team in the league has a different cap number. Plenty of them are over the actual stated cap for the year (but not over their actual cap).
You're lying about baseball, and your own link showed that. In fact, the first sentence of your own link showed that if you sign a contract it is fully guaranteed (what you're describing is actually closer to someone called up from the minors or make the team during spring training without having a major league contract already).

Anyway, if you want to learn a little more about the business of sports, Andrew Brandt on twitter is an excellent follow and you would learn a lot.

/yes, your lie about the baseball one bothers me for some reason
//I don't know why, I think its because your own link that you provided disagreed with you so completely
 
2020-10-22 11:01:51 AM  

kdawg7736: What about Mr. England?


aiptcomics.comView Full Size

He's still known mostly for playing Mr. Krueger.
 
2020-10-22 11:17:44 AM  

Gubbo: /yes, your lie about the baseball one bothers me for some reason


phimuskapsi: Baseball can cut players before the season without guaranteed money being paid.


phimuskapsi: In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay.


Fark user imageView Full Size


I stated that contracts could be terminated before the season starts. Any player with 3-6 years of service can get an arbitration contract. Additionally, if the team cuts player X they do owe them money, HOWEVER, if player X goes to another team and gets a contract they prior team has to pay less. E.g. Player X has a $10M contract, player X gets cut, player X gets a new contract for $3M, the prior team owes $7M. 

As a note, the majority of the MLB players are on a split contract, and those mean that they can send you down if you suck. These splits are usually 10% of what you would get in the majors. Only stars get true guaranteed contracts.
 
2020-10-22 11:24:39 AM  

phimuskapsi: Gubbo: /yes, your lie about the baseball one bothers me for some reason

phimuskapsi: Baseball can cut players before the season without guaranteed money being paid.

phimuskapsi: In MLB a player can be cut and not have a 'guaranteed' salary pay out as long as they are cut before the season starts - in which case the team owes the player 30 or 45 days worth of pay.

[Fark user image 833x124]

I stated that contracts could be terminated before the season starts. Any player with 3-6 years of service can get an arbitration contract. Additionally, if the team cuts player X they do owe them money, HOWEVER, if player X goes to another team and gets a contract they prior team has to pay less. E.g. Player X has a $10M contract, player X gets cut, player X gets a new contract for $3M, the prior team owes $7M. 

As a note, the majority of the MLB players are on a split contract, and those mean that they can send you down if you suck. These splits are usually 10% of what you would get in the majors. Only stars get true guaranteed contracts.


Why. Why. Why. Why would you lie to blatantly. This is the, word for word, the first sentence of your link.

Players who obtain Major League contracts -- either via free agency or extensions -- are guaranteed the full amount of money promised by those contracts

Just answer me what you get out of lying and I'll leave it alone.
 
2020-10-22 11:29:26 AM  
Gubbo:Just answer me what you get out of lying and I'll leave it alone.

I'm not lying, I have laid out my case. I'm literally exhausted from having you ignore what I'm saying and sticking to one particular line. I have talked about arbitration, split contracts, trades, and so on. You have provided nothing other than a guy to follow on Twitter. I'm just...done.

You are acting like NFL players are somehow wronged for having performance bonuses, the ability to be cut, and so on. You want to hold your ground? Fine. I don't agree with your take - full stop. The end.
 
2020-10-22 3:50:12 PM  
For any veteran player, his pay for the entire season is guaranteed if he's on the roster in Week 1. That's why you'll see some teams release a guy after training camp, then sign him in Week 2.
 
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