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(DW)   Why are we not letting the dogs out? Apparently Finnish researchers have trained dogs to detect COVID-19 with nearly 100% accuracy in seconds   (dw.com) divider line
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1482 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2020 at 1:53 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-21 7:01:30 PM  
Finished Dog
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-21 7:42:36 PM  
Top Secret!: The East German checkpoint.
Youtube Z6A2WzA5BaE
 
2020-10-21 8:47:45 PM  
Can't dogs catch covid?
 
2020-10-21 9:36:17 PM  

beezeltown: Can't dogs catch covid?


They're sniffing wipes that weren't in contact with people's respiratory system, you can wipe skin, with them.
 
2020-10-21 10:18:23 PM  
Lol, then they lose their sense of smell after they catch it.

/Thanks Linda for pointing out the actual process so I don't have to RTFA.
 
2020-10-21 10:50:34 PM  
That's good, but training them to indicate positive cases with a thumbs-up was probably a bit short-sighted.
 
2020-10-21 11:52:03 PM  
Baha Men are wondering who will let them out....
 
2020-10-21 11:52:39 PM  
Finish, Subby? What are the Starts saying about this?
 
2020-10-22 1:55:26 AM  

beezeltown: Can't dogs catch covid?


They can but they just bring it right back to you to throw again
 
2020-10-22 2:00:03 AM  
I'd wondered about this a while back. Good doggos.
 
2020-10-22 2:00:21 AM  
WHO, WHO WHO WHO
 
2020-10-22 2:01:53 AM  
Isn't this really just a quicker test with instant lab results?
 
2020-10-22 2:07:06 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: That's good, but training them to indicate positive cases with a thumbs-up was probably a bit short-sighted.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-22 2:09:02 AM  
So if dogs can detect the 'rona then shouldn't gas chromatography - mass spectrometry techniques also detect it?
 
2020-10-22 2:16:29 AM  
Finland: "We have trained dogs that can detect COVID-19 - here, we'll send one to the White House as a goodwill gift!"

Pompeo: "Uncrate that damned cur and let's see what those fish-pie-eatin' farkwits sent us..."

*Crate opens, dog takes one whiff, howls, then dies...*
 
2020-10-22 2:28:32 AM  
Sources say that no matter where they put the samples, they can find them in the Lab....
 
2020-10-22 2:50:06 AM  

Todd300: WHO, WHO WHO WHO


The World Health Organization is not yet recommending them.
 
2020-10-22 2:55:43 AM  

fragMasterFlash: So if dogs can detect the 'rona then shouldn't gas chromatography - mass spectrometry techniques also detect it?


In -principle- yes.

First we'd have to figure out what it even is that they're smelling in the first place. Is it *a* molecule? Multiple molecules? A subtle shift in ratios of molecules? All three?

Then if it's a very rare molecule, it's difficult to get enough into the GC-MS - remember, dogs can smell as little as single digit numbers of some molecules - without other signals, like the solvent, swamping it.

And then the MS may not be able to sort through the thousands of complex organic molecules that would get fed in by a solvent wipe. An MS works by blasting the molecules with ionizing electrons and comparing the output fragments' mass spectrum with a database of "input molecule X creates spectrum B." That quickly becomes an extremely hard problem to solve if you have large numbers of Xes.

Plus, high resolution mass spectrometers are constrained by physics to be physically large (large table sized) and anything that requires a high vacuum to operate is DOA as far as mass deployment and rapid anything goes.

Far simpler, faster and cheaper to just let the good boys and good girls tell us.
 
2020-10-22 3:07:49 AM  
.

Begun, the roving packs of enforcer dogs of the north war has.

This is the solution.

Personal nordic dogs for everyone!


/ Did not have this on my bingo card!
 
2020-10-22 3:18:09 AM  
The cops have sniffer flashlights for alcohol. Figure out what the dogs are keying off and make a detector?
 
2020-10-22 3:23:11 AM  

erik-k: fragMasterFlash: So if dogs can detect the 'rona then shouldn't gas chromatography - mass spectrometry techniques also detect it?

In -principle- yes.

First we'd have to figure out what it even is that they're smelling in the first place. Is it *a* molecule? Multiple molecules? A subtle shift in ratios of molecules? All three?

Then if it's a very rare molecule, it's difficult to get enough into the GC-MS - remember, dogs can smell as little as single digit numbers of some molecules - without other signals, like the solvent, swamping it.

And then the MS may not be able to sort through the thousands of complex organic molecules that would get fed in by a solvent wipe. An MS works by blasting the molecules with ionizing electrons and comparing the output fragments' mass spectrum with a database of "input molecule X creates spectrum B." That quickly becomes an extremely hard problem to solve if you have large numbers of Xes.

Plus, high resolution mass spectrometers are constrained by physics to be physically large (large table sized) and anything that requires a high vacuum to operate is DOA as far as mass deployment and rapid anything goes.

Far simpler, faster and cheaper to just let the good boys and good girls tell us.


Also, if I remember right (only done it once), sample collection for gas chromatography is a PAIN IN THE ASS. I seem to remember giant jars full of saline and trying to get the desired gas to bubble in.
 
2020-10-22 3:29:30 AM  
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2020-10-22 3:44:02 AM  
Apparently my crotch has COVID
 
2020-10-22 3:55:56 AM  

Felgraf: erik-k: fragMasterFlash: So if dogs can detect the 'rona then shouldn't gas chromatography - mass spectrometry techniques also detect it?

In -principle- yes.

First we'd have to figure out what it even is that they're smelling in the first place. Is it *a* molecule? Multiple molecules? A subtle shift in ratios of molecules? All three?

Then if it's a very rare molecule, it's difficult to get enough into the GC-MS - remember, dogs can smell as little as single digit numbers of some molecules - without other signals, like the solvent, swamping it.

And then the MS may not be able to sort through the thousands of complex organic molecules that would get fed in by a solvent wipe. An MS works by blasting the molecules with ionizing electrons and comparing the output fragments' mass spectrum with a database of "input molecule X creates spectrum B." That quickly becomes an extremely hard problem to solve if you have large numbers of Xes.

Plus, high resolution mass spectrometers are constrained by physics to be physically large (large table sized) and anything that requires a high vacuum to operate is DOA as far as mass deployment and rapid anything goes.

Far simpler, faster and cheaper to just let the good boys and good girls tell us.

Also, if I remember right (only done it once), sample collection for gas chromatography is a PAIN IN THE ASS. I seem to remember giant jars full of saline and trying to get the desired gas to bubble in.


Did a crazy paranoid keep showing up and putting them back in the chest, while yelling about his precious bubbles?
 
2020-10-22 4:22:46 AM  

erik-k: First we'd have to figure out what it even is that they're smelling in the first place. Is it *a* molecule? Multiple molecules? A subtle shift in ratios of molecules? All three?


COVID infection smells like steak. Your dog wants some.
 
2020-10-22 4:28:08 AM  

atlantic_lotion: Apparently my crotch has COVID


If your dog starts questioning their love of peanut butter, you need to reexamine your life choices...
 
2020-10-22 4:39:56 AM  
Sounds viable.
 
2020-10-22 4:48:26 AM  
We're gonna need a lot more Scooby snacks!
 
2020-10-22 5:17:51 AM  
Why not?  Because #45* can't run an attack ad against "Big Dog."
 
2020-10-22 6:32:43 AM  
so, i just barely skimmed the article.
so, after the dog sniffs your crotch area and you're positive,
how does the animal signal it to his handlers?
/does it give you the empathetic watery doggo eyes that say "yuse gonna dye hoomun"?
//or does it lifts it's leg and pee on yours?
 
2020-10-22 7:17:07 AM  
I'm going to guess that the reason the US doesn't do this is few people in the US speak Finnish, and ever fewer dogs do.
 
2020-10-22 8:43:02 AM  

Todd300: WHO, WHO WHO WHO


WHAT?!?
 
2020-10-22 8:55:24 AM  
BBC reported using dogs for detection months ago. Why are we not doing it world-wide by now?
 
2020-10-22 9:12:32 AM  
Re: GC/MS
I agree with above posters. A used GC/MS system is say 50K on ebay. Carrier gas for a few months is a few hundred. Instead of a solvent extraction, I might try heating the solvent wipe pad with a headspace injector (say $20K new) since the compound would volatile. Column, vials, etc is another few hundred. That's a fair set up cost not including operators. Once in motion with a validated method you can probably run 20-30 samples an hour if you are lucky with optimization. A GC/MS may surprisingly also not be as sensitive as some other detectors; but once you know the retention time, that isn't quite the problem for a screening method using another (cheaper) detection type, such as FID with a PolyArc reactor to boost signal. A do-able project with a big enough number of samples to work with, probably, and might tell us something neat about the disease, but...

By comparison a dog is food, vet bills, trainers, handlers. Some random sampling on the web suggests 3-15K to train a dog for bio-detection, and might take 'a few weeks.' The dogs in the covid article were already bio-detection trained and picked up this new sample type pretty quickly. They made a sample carousel where dogs could pass by samples and had the potential of 250 samples an hour ( at least two dogs to allow rest time).
I found an article which goes into some detail on the project.

https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.co​m​/articles/10.1186/s12879-020-05281-3
 
2020-10-22 10:42:49 AM  
The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy.  But these are new, they look human. Sweat, bad breath, COVID, everything.
 
2020-10-22 10:56:04 AM  
Well, where's the money in THAT?
 
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