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(Vox)   Toss out your solar panels and tear down those wind farms, because it's an ol' fashioned hole diggin'   (vox.com) divider line
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1555 clicks; posted to STEM » on 21 Oct 2020 at 12:18 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-21 11:22:31 AM  
Those technologies aren't mutually exclusive...why not all three?
 
2020-10-21 11:23:51 AM  
I want solar panels and a ground loop heat pump for my ideal house.. too bad it would cost too much to drill as my house sits right on bedrock with a thin layer of "soil" that is at most 20" thick.
 
2020-10-21 11:49:22 AM  

beezeltown: Those technologies aren't mutually exclusive...why not all three?


No, you can only use one type of energy generation.

/I mean
//It seems to be what some people think
///What with the shiatting on green energy as it is
 
2020-10-21 12:07:47 PM  
Do you know how many holes there could be if someone would just take the time to dig the dirt out of them?
 
2020-10-21 12:23:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do you know how many holes there could be if someone would just take the time to dig the dirt out of them?


Five. Maybe six.
 
2020-10-21 12:26:12 PM  
I know just the people for the job

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-21 12:33:20 PM  
But what happens when the volcanoes go to sleep? You can forget about television that night.
 
2020-10-21 12:46:49 PM  
I am setting about 100 yards from almost 2000 boreholes for a geothermal system, so getting a kick and all of that.
 
2020-10-21 12:53:48 PM  
What if cthulhu is awakened? Then what libatards? Or the rock gets cold?
 
2020-10-21 12:56:03 PM  
Dug a hole, it filled with water.  Now what?
 
2020-10-21 1:01:50 PM  
So what color are they going to be?
 
2020-10-21 1:02:10 PM  
The good? You will no longer stub your toe on your return air duck when getting up to go to the bathroom at night?

The bad? Joe vs. the Volcano.
 
2020-10-21 1:02:51 PM  

PainInTheASP: The good? You will no longer stub your toe on your return air duck when getting up to go to the bathroom at night?

The bad? Joe vs. the Volcano.


Duct. DUCT.

Friggin autocorrect.
 
2020-10-21 1:03:53 PM  

PainInTheASP: PainInTheASP: The good? You will no longer stub your toe on your return air duck when getting up to go to the bathroom at night?

The bad? Joe vs. the Volcano.

Duct. DUCT.

Friggin autocorrect.


air duck

media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-21 1:04:26 PM  
If our Furnace/HVAC ever breaks down, I would love to replace it with a geothermal setup.  The installation costs may be prohibitive, however, when considering how much you would actually save on your energy bill.  Much like solar, it still has a very, very long ROI timeline.
 
2020-10-21 1:06:23 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: I want solar panels and a ground loop heat pump for my ideal house.. too bad it would cost too much to drill as my house sits right on bedrock with a thin layer of "soil" that is at most 20" thick.


I just want to know why you don't lay ground loops around a basement as a matter of course.  Might need to dig a little wider (because it will be stealing heat/cold from the basement), but it seems like a no brainer.
 
2020-10-21 1:13:21 PM  
FTFA: The heat is continuously replenished by the decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements, at a flow rate of roughly 30 terawatts a year, almost double all human energy consumption.

Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Let's not toss out those solar panels and wind farms.

statista.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-21 1:17:09 PM  
... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.
 
2020-10-21 1:33:29 PM  
"The heat is continuously replenished by the decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements"

NIMPC !

/Not In MY Planet's Core
 
2020-10-21 1:34:12 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.


Meh, they know energy.
 
2020-10-21 1:39:17 PM  

Driedsponge: If our Furnace/HVAC ever breaks down, I would love to replace it with a geothermal setup.  The installation costs may be prohibitive, however, when considering how much you would actually save on your energy bill.  Much like solar, it still has a very, very long ROI timeline.


Check for rebates in your area.  My brother already had a geothermal system but, installed in the early '90s, it was getting difficult to support for repairs and not nearly as efficient as modern units.  He updated to a new system (two units) (the ground loop was left alone) and got significant rebates from the City of Edmond Oklahoma and even the state for bumping the efficiency up.
 
2020-10-21 1:42:11 PM  

SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.


They know theft and how to destabilize an entire region for fun and profit, with the blowback merely being ISIS, Brexit, and the rise of racist fascism across Europe, egged on by Putin.
 
2020-10-21 1:50:49 PM  

SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.


They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.
 
2020-10-21 1:53:48 PM  

Driedsponge: If our Furnace/HVAC ever breaks down, I would love to replace it with a geothermal setup.  The installation costs may be prohibitive, however, when considering how much you would actually save on your energy bill.  Much like solar, it still has a very, very long ROI timeline.


We bought a house 11 years ago in VA that did not have AC, only radiant heat. We figured people had lived in it for 60+ years without it, so we could too. One summer later, f that noise.

We thought geothermal installation was going to be cost prohibitive too, but since our house had no ductwork in it that was going to be a major cost no matter which way we chose. At the time there were some pretty great state and federal tax breaks for green upgrades, which ended up being around 40% of the total cost, not just the pump system, so going geothermal ended up being only about $1000 more than a regular AC system.

We had calculated how much we would save on heating and cooling going in, but a surprise significant saving we hadn't factored in was the cost of heating water. It is essentially a free byproduct of the HVAC system, so our gas bill is now just the cost of cooking, which is sometimes literally pennies a month. All told compared to our neighbor who has the exact same 1800 sqft house but with standard HVAC and a gas water heater, we save about $100 per month in the winter and $300 per month in the summer.
 
2020-10-21 1:56:06 PM  

patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.


This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.
 
2020-10-21 1:59:20 PM  
I get brought in a few times a year to design the retrofit of a bunch of geothermal systems and turn them back into standard HVAC systems.  Heck it's pretty standard to incorporate the infrastructure to convert geothermal over in the base design.
 
2020-10-21 2:00:35 PM  
Tried geothermal when the house was built. Didn't work because the house is on top of a hill. (Temperature wasn't right at depth) That was 30 years ago though, maybe they work better now.
 
2020-10-21 2:02:09 PM  
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-21 2:51:23 PM  
Only a couple of days before the 3 11 quake in Japan, there was a big accident at a hot geothermal facility  in northern Japan that killed at least two workers. I can not remember the exact number. I think it was two.

Fukushima had plenty of problems, but it scrammed safely, and the only workers who died were, I think two from the tsunami itself, and two during clean up months later.

Just kind of a fun fact.

Japan has a huge geothermal resource, but most of it is privately owned. There was a time when Japan was the world leader in the field, but I think it passed the torch 25 years ago.
 
2020-10-21 3:13:24 PM  
Subby says to chuck the solar panels. Well. About that. I actually have MANY properties that run with solar PV and heat pumps for heating, cooling, and even water heating. On wikipedia, it is ASHP.

As people might now, even with zero geothermal resource, a heat pump is 300% efficient until you get down to about zero C. You can get models from Fujitsu and Mitsubishi that are good down to -35C using special designs and materials. Typically, I have solar PV with 100 V AC running a heat pump in the winter, with some radiant heaters, which are of course are 100% efficient. I can have air conditioning in the summer for free, and then I have a heat pump water heater that uses off peak power to heat the bath water, etc.

The great thing about ASHP heat pumps is that you can use them anywhere you can use an air conditioner. They are great for apartments, condos, etc. I suppose even an RV. Never thought about that, but....

Anyway, someone wrote about "ROI" and high expense and the need for subsidies. My first solar array paid off in about 7 years. I suppose the heat pump water heater was pricey, but we use a lot of water, so it probably paid for itself in five. And heat pump heating with solar that is paid off is essentially free. Even using grid electricity, you get three times the heat you would get with radiant heat, so... Interest rates are really low, so I do not think financing is such a big deal.

No need to dig a bunch of holes unless you go for long periods at less than freezing. And even if you do, then look closely at heat pumps PLUS geothermal instead of just straight circulation. You can multiply the benefit using the compression cycle.

This technology is old and well established.

/ 35 cents per kWh peak
// 11 cents per kWh off peak
/// free solar PV
 
2020-10-21 3:18:55 PM  
Solar might have a long ROI selling back to the grid, but when I wanted to run power to my outbuilding/shed office, I was quoted 7k

I spent that money setting up 2kw of solar, 10kwh of LiFePo4 batteries, and a decent inverter. Now, I can run everything I want to in the home office shed - including power tools (it was a woodworking shed before it became a COVID office) and I can run extension cords to the house in a power failure.

10kwh runs the fridge for a long time, and 2kw of solar means Im full quickly enough

I usually only dip about 20% and am at full power by 10, at which point I start heating the shed with electric heating instead of the propane unit. May as well use free heat, so long as the batteries are good.

It was cold today, and has rained the last two days. No sun to speak of. Heated and ran computer, lights, etc.  Batteries are at 36% now.

Probably have to use propane heating tomorrow unless the sun starts shining

But- no ROI to pay an for grid tie equipment to try to offset 8 cents a kWh.
 
2020-10-21 3:20:53 PM  

mongbiohazard: FTFA: The heat is continuously replenished by the decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements, at a flow rate of roughly 30 terawatts a year, almost double all human energy consumption.

Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Let's not toss out those solar panels and wind farms.

[statista.com image 850x631]



Interesting that the graph shows consumption and not production.

If the renewable energy curtailment problem were solved, renewables would account for a lot more consumption.

The graph also highlights that efforts to get people to move to renewables are likely to be dwarfed by increasing demand for energy. Maybe we should be getting serious about getting people to consume less and raising fossil fuel prices.
 
2020-10-21 3:27:02 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.

This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.


I agree with him on their capabilities.

My anti-turf angle is that Haliburton has a record of ethical allegiance to shareholders and principal executives and no one else.
 
2020-10-21 3:31:25 PM  

montreal_medic: Solar might have a long ROI selling back to the grid, but when I wanted to run power to my outbuilding/shed office, I was quoted 7k

I spent that money setting up 2kw of solar, 10kwh of LiFePo4 batteries, and a decent inverter. Now, I can run everything I want to in the home office shed - including power tools (it was a woodworking shed before it became a COVID office) and I can run extension cords to the house in a power failure.

10kwh runs the fridge for a long time, and 2kw of solar means Im full quickly enough

I usually only dip about 20% and am at full power by 10, at which point I start heating the shed with electric heating instead of the propane unit. May as well use free heat, so long as the batteries are good.

It was cold today, and has rained the last two days. No sun to speak of. Heated and ran computer, lights, etc.  Batteries are at 36% now.

Probably have to use propane heating tomorrow unless the sun starts shining

But- no ROI to pay an for grid tie equipment to try to offset 8 cents a kWh.


Solar and wind have often been cost effective for remote and/or off grid applications.  Yours is a good but often overlooked application where you've got grid, but buildout cost to a new/remote building is near same or more than renewable installation.
 
2020-10-21 3:35:07 PM  
2fardownthread:

/ 35 cents per kWh peak
// 11 cents per kWh off peak
/// free solar PV


My cost in Oklahoma is 8.5 cents peak (summer) and 7.5 cents the rest of the year.

Sure extends the ROI on damn near any renewable.
 
2020-10-21 3:41:09 PM  

montreal_medic: Solar might have a long ROI selling back to the grid, but when I wanted to run power to my outbuilding/shed office, I was quoted 7k

I spent that money setting up 2kw of solar, 10kwh of LiFePo4 batteries, and a decent inverter. Now, I can run everything I want to in the home office shed - including power tools (it was a woodworking shed before it became a COVID office) and I can run extension cords to the house in a power failure.

10kwh runs the fridge for a long time, and 2kw of solar means Im full quickly enough

I usually only dip about 20% and am at full power by 10, at which point I start heating the shed with electric heating instead of the propane unit. May as well use free heat, so long as the batteries are good.

It was cold today, and has rained the last two days. No sun to speak of. Heated and ran computer, lights, etc.  Batteries are at 36% now.

Probably have to use propane heating tomorrow unless the sun starts shining

But- no ROI to pay an for grid tie equipment to try to offset 8 cents a kWh.


Yeah. For remote locations that makes a lot of sense.

Your sizing decisions are interesting. It sounds like an efficient size for yikes... Montreal?  Running heaters from batteries is an interesting decision. Anyway, kudos. You are only a little bit on the north side compared to where I am. People are always surprised that solar works well that far north. I would guess you get 1 kW even on a cloudy day. That is enough to top off a battery, for sure.

I suppose..... for you geothermal would seem pricey, even compared to propane. Have a look in my other posts about heat pumps. If you are running a refrigerator, you could definitely run an ASHP system, and with your batteries, you could run it at any time of day.
 
2020-10-21 3:42:55 PM  

2fardownthread: mongbiohazard: FTFA: The heat is continuously replenished by the decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements, at a flow rate of roughly 30 terawatts a year, almost double all human energy consumption.

Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Let's not toss out those solar panels and wind farms.

[statista.com image 850x631]


Interesting that the graph shows consumption and not production.

If the renewable energy curtailment problem were solved, renewables would account for a lot more consumption.

The graph also highlights that efforts to get people to move to renewables are likely to be dwarfed by increasing demand for energy. Maybe we should be getting serious about getting people to consume less and raising fossil fuel prices.


It was the quickest one I could find just to show how our energy consumption increases a good deal over time. Doubling what we're at right now isn't some distant prospect for five centuries from now.

As far as consuming less... it's tricky. Increases in efficiency are often prone to result in people still consuming more energy. For an easy example, as cars have become increasingly fuel efficient the actual MPG isn't going down much - automakers are using the power savings to add more features to cars and increase their size, using up those efficiency increases. But yes, fossil fuel prices need to be increased as we phase out those technologies. We should be ending fossil fuel use in general, and moving on to more advanced technologies.
 
2020-10-21 3:43:27 PM  

SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.

This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.

I agree with him on their capabilities.

My anti-turf angle is that Haliburton has a record of ethical allegiance to shareholders and principal executives and no one else.


Now that I've thought about it some more - I still think Haliburton is a decent choice based on capabilities, but an organization hiring them should be careful to include strict language about environmental objectives / requirements they find important.

They are mostly a sub-contracting house, hired by the likes of Exxon, Texaco and BP (oh, yeah).  They will do their best to perform to the contract, but you can guess how much "strict environmental" language is in the contracts with their traditional patrons.
 
2020-10-21 3:48:22 PM  

SansNeural: 2fardownthread:

/ 35 cents per kWh peak
// 11 cents per kWh off peak
/// free solar PV

My cost in Oklahoma is 8.5 cents peak (summer) and 7.5 cents the rest of the year.

Sure extends the ROI on damn near any renewable.


Tell me about it. I feel sorry for the suckers who just shrug and pay the electric bill. Hawaii has high rates, probably the highest in the US. Germany and Japan are higher.

The peak I show above is actually not seasonal. It is 7am to 11pm peak and off/peak otherwise. As you can tell, I was lucky to get that deal. I use timers to do a lot of things at night.  What might shock you even more is that gasoline and heating oil prices are similarly high, and even wood for the stove is expensive. There is no way to get around it. My neighbors just get nailed month after month. I adapted.
 
2020-10-21 3:58:22 PM  

mongbiohazard: 2fardownthread: mongbiohazard: FTFA: The heat is continuously replenished by the decay of naturally occurring radioactive elements, at a flow rate of roughly 30 terawatts a year, almost double all human energy consumption.

Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Let's not toss out those solar panels and wind farms.

[statista.com image 850x631]


Interesting that the graph shows consumption and not production.

If the renewable energy curtailment problem were solved, renewables would account for a lot more consumption.

The graph also highlights that efforts to get people to move to renewables are likely to be dwarfed by increasing demand for energy. Maybe we should be getting serious about getting people to consume less and raising fossil fuel prices.

It was the quickest one I could find just to show how our energy consumption increases a good deal over time. Doubling what we're at right now isn't some distant prospect for five centuries from now.

As far as consuming less... it's tricky. Increases in efficiency are often prone to result in people still consuming more energy. For an easy example, as cars have become increasingly fuel efficient the actual MPG isn't going down much - automakers are using the power savings to add more features to cars and increase their size, using up those efficiency increases. But yes, fossil fuel prices need to be increased as we phase out those technologies. We should be ending fossil fuel use in general, and moving on to more advanced technologies.


I notice this in my own behavior and it shocks me. I have a lot of lighting, and I will not lie when I say that I swapped out for LEDs years ago because i want to turn my lights on... more or less guilt free. People get a Prius and take long trips. etc. But maybe that is what it is all about. Everyone wants to have a certain standard of living and that has almost always meant a certain level of consumption.

Technology is hard pressed to satisfy increasingly unsatisfiable humans while still conserving resources. Humans should do a lot more, obviously.

Nice graph though. There ARE production graphs if you are interested. Lawrence Livermore puts one out every year that shows where all the power comes from and where it goes. Basically, it gets wasted. That is the executive summary. I shake my head every time I see it because the problem... as I allude above, is not necessarily the technology. It is simply cheaper to waste the energy than to change.
 
2020-10-21 4:14:21 PM  

mongbiohazard: Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.


Electrical consumption in the US has been approximately stable for at least a decade due to newer appliances using less electricity, incandescent light bulbs being replaced with compact fluorescents and those replaced with LEDs, etc.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/month​l​y/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_01
 
2020-10-21 4:17:53 PM  

Geotpf: mongbiohazard: Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Electrical consumption in the US has been approximately stable for at least a decade due to newer appliances using less electricity, incandescent light bulbs being replaced with compact fluorescents and those replaced with LEDs, etc.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthl​y/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_01


I gave ol' mongo the benefit of doubt and assumed he was referring to global energy usage.
 
2020-10-21 4:51:12 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.

This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.


So you seem well-informed on this subject, what portions of the proposals put forward are negative for the environment compared with fossil fuels?
 
2020-10-21 5:05:51 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: I want solar panels and a ground loop heat pump for my ideal house.. too bad it would cost too much to drill as my house sits right on bedrock with a thin layer of "soil" that is at most 20" thick.


My house heats with geothermal. About 700ft well. Bedrock starts 30ft down. Maybe next year I'll install solar panels. Payback time for solar should be around 7-10 years.
 
2020-10-21 5:24:54 PM  

BolloxReader: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.

This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.

So you seem well-informed on this subject, what portions of the proposals put forward are negative for the environment compared with fossil fuels?


Haliburton said mean things about his mom.
 
2020-10-21 5:26:17 PM  

SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: patowen: SansNeural: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ... because that's how you get even more frak quakes.

And stop getting 'insights' from Halliburton guys.

Meh, they know energy.

They know *drilling*.  That's what we'll need to make AGS go.

I think closed-loop AGS is the solution.  Halliburton and friends have the know-how to do precise targeted drilling.  This could be a real winner for American green jobs and renewable carbon-free energy.

This is the most blatant astroturfing I have ever read on Fark. Breathtaking.

I agree with him on their capabilities.

My anti-turf angle is that Haliburton has a record of ethical allegiance to shareholders and principal executives and no one else.


I'm sure the new green energy corporations will have similar allegiances.  Same BS but less carbon, so I'm ok with that and I think its a good idea to transition an existing skilled workforce rather than yank the carpet on them during the sea-change.
 
2020-10-21 5:32:25 PM  

SansNeural: Geotpf: mongbiohazard: Well, that's today's energy consumption. Considering how fast our energy consumption rises decade over decade, it might not really be all that long before we meet that rate.

Electrical consumption in the US has been approximately stable for at least a decade due to newer appliances using less electricity, incandescent light bulbs being replaced with compact fluorescents and those replaced with LEDs, etc.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthl​y/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_01

I gave ol' mongo the benefit of doubt and assumed he was referring to global energy usage.


Well I was... Our carbon use is a global problem, after all.
 
2020-10-21 5:46:45 PM  

2fardownthread: montreal_medic: Solar might have a long ROI selling back to the grid, but when I wanted to run power to my outbuilding/shed office, I was quoted 7k

I spent that money setting up 2kw of solar, 10kwh of LiFePo4 batteries, and a decent inverter. Now, I can run everything I want to in the home office shed - including power tools (it was a woodworking shed before it became a COVID office) and I can run extension cords to the house in a power failure.

10kwh runs the fridge for a long time, and 2kw of solar means Im full quickly enough

I usually only dip about 20% and am at full power by 10, at which point I start heating the shed with electric heating instead of the propane unit. May as well use free heat, so long as the batteries are good.

It was cold today, and has rained the last two days. No sun to speak of. Heated and ran computer, lights, etc.  Batteries are at 36% now.

Probably have to use propane heating tomorrow unless the sun starts shining

But- no ROI to pay an for grid tie equipment to try to offset 8 cents a kWh.

Yeah. For remote locations that makes a lot of sense.

Your sizing decisions are interesting. It sounds like an efficient size for yikes... Montreal?  Running heaters from batteries is an interesting decision. Anyway, kudos. You are only a little bit on the north side compared to where I am. People are always surprised that solar works well that far north. I would guess you get 1 kW even on a cloudy day. That is enough to top off a battery, for sure.

I suppose..... for you geothermal would seem pricey, even compared to propane. Have a look in my other posts about heat pumps. If you are running a refrigerator, you could definitely run an ASHP system, and with your batteries, you could run it at any time of day.


I get about 3kwh per day, assuming I'm consuming or charging rather than the MPPT dumping it. Works great.

Heating makes almost no sense of course, but when there's a chill in the air, full sun, and the batteries are over 90%, I see no reason not to flip on the electric heater instead of consuming some propane. Its horribly inefficient, but works just fine. I also use the electric heater to keep the battery bank over 5C - just because LifePo4 shouldn't be too cold when they start charging. I usually end the day at full battery and by sunrise am down around 85-90% due to that amount of heating. Back to full fast though

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2020-10-21 9:43:07 PM  

montreal_medic: 2fardownthread: montreal_medic: Solar might have a long ROI selling back to the grid, but when I wanted to run power to my outbuilding/shed office, I was quoted 7k

I spent that money setting up 2kw of solar, 10kwh of LiFePo4 batteries, and a decent inverter. Now, I can run everything I want to in the home office shed - including power tools (it was a woodworking shed before it became a COVID office) and I can run extension cords to the house in a power failure.

10kwh runs the fridge for a long time, and 2kw of solar means Im full quickly enough

I usually only dip about 20% and am at full power by 10, at which point I start heating the shed with electric heating instead of the propane unit. May as well use free heat, so long as the batteries are good.

It was cold today, and has rained the last two days. No sun to speak of. Heated and ran computer, lights, etc.  Batteries are at 36% now.

Probably have to use propane heating tomorrow unless the sun starts shining

But- no ROI to pay an for grid tie equipment to try to offset 8 cents a kWh.

Yeah. For remote locations that makes a lot of sense.

Your sizing decisions are interesting. It sounds like an efficient size for yikes... Montreal?  Running heaters from batteries is an interesting decision. Anyway, kudos. You are only a little bit on the north side compared to where I am. People are always surprised that solar works well that far north. I would guess you get 1 kW even on a cloudy day. That is enough to top off a battery, for sure.

I suppose..... for you geothermal would seem pricey, even compared to propane. Have a look in my other posts about heat pumps. If you are running a refrigerator, you could definitely run an ASHP system, and with your batteries, you could run it at any time of day.

I get about 3kwh per day, assuming I'm consuming or charging rather than the MPPT dumping it. Works great.

Heating makes almost no sense of course, but when there's a chill in the air, full sun, and the batteries are o ...


That is all about what I would expect. "Works great" about sums it up.

So I would like to award you a big thumbs up. The best solar system is the one that got installed yesterday. A lot of people are so full of IMA GONNA DO THIS... and they never get around to it, or they get waiting for the next best thing. You did it, and it works.

You probably know more about the batteries than I do. I have heard that if you do not cycle them deeply, they last a lot longer. Comments? I also want to confirm that you have the batteries on the SOLAR side of the inverter and NOT the appliance side, right? But your graphic seems to show that you have at least a sensor between the panels and the battery... that is a sensor and not the whole inverter, right?

My impulse is to suggest that you get more panels, but that makes no sense, right? You have thought about that a lot and reject the idea each time, probably. You have more or less the optimum size system for what  you want.
 
2020-10-21 9:45:08 PM  
I remember visiting Santorini and being told they generate their power with diesel. Sitting on a dormant volcano in the middle of the Aegean sea, and burning bloody diesel.
I bet New Zealand will be all over this too. They' already have 85%+ renewable energy.
 
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