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(Detroit Free Press)   Detroit pastor leaves his Church over congregation's unchristian support for Trump. Be careful, it may be a little dusty in here from shaking off his sandals   (freep.com) divider line
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3632 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Oct 2020 at 10:02 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-20 9:04:42 AM  
Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.
 
2020-10-20 9:06:41 AM  
Pastor: "There's a quote from Martin Luther King where he said, 'The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state,'" Mannes said. "That just hit me hard because I think, broadly, the white evangelical community in our country has abandoned that role."

I have some bad news about the white evangelical community in American history; you may want to sit down for this.


subby: "unchristian support for Trump"I have some bad news about the last 2000 years of Western history; you may want to sit down for this.
 
2020-10-20 9:07:39 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: subby: "unchristian support for Trump"

I have some bad news about the last 2000 years of Western history; you may want to sit down for this.


I'm used to Fark eating whitespace, but the newline-eating is a tad sneaky.
 
2020-10-20 9:31:00 AM  
I know Methodism doesn't fit the pop culture definition of "evangelical" but it's safe to say that our church's Trump supporters are all over the age of 65 and heavily dependent on the stock market plus some vague desire for cultural protectionism*. They may not love Trump, but he's checking those boxes in their view.

One of our older pastors retired a couple years ago and one of his last sermons was about "tearing down walls" - it was the closest any of them ever got to a political speech, but it was basically an indictment of Trump as the most anti-Christian/non-Christian president in modern history. Total mic drop, you could hear the old people squirming in the pews.


*cultural protectionism includes race, language, nationality, and making sure nobody sits in their usual spot on Sunday or I swear I am leaving this church because things have gotten too progressive!
 
2020-10-20 9:44:32 AM  
The professor explained that those who see God as punitive tend to support Trump, saying they see him as strong-willed for the way he attacks opponents and "punishes" people for being poor.

I think it is more simple than that.  At it's base, it is simple insecurity and an inability to fully deal with that insecurity in a productive manner.  It is easy to abate those feelings by hating, bullying, looking down on others, etc.  It may not be the intent of church or religion to provide such things, but it does.
 
2020-10-20 9:59:14 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: I have some bad news about the last 2000 years of Western history


Fark user imageView Full Size

 
2020-10-20 10:06:12 AM  
Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.
 
2020-10-20 10:10:56 AM  

Glitchwerks: Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.


And there it is. My first eye roll if the morning.
 
2020-10-20 10:11:51 AM  

shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.


Grand Rapids is basically a Detroit suburb.

/s
 
2020-10-20 10:13:31 AM  
This is pretty interesting. I grew up heavily churched, and the story of a member leaving the church because they're offended by the pastor or don't agree with something he said from the pulpit, that common. I've even heard of churches firing pastors that they turn sour on. I don't think I've ever heard of a pastor walking away because they didn't agree with the congregation.
 
2020-10-20 10:15:04 AM  
I'm glad that more and more real Christians have realized that the Republican Party has abandoned all of Christ's teachings long ago. Unfortunately, there's still too many out there.

/Evangelicals are not real Christians
//Most of them don't even mention Jesus, never mind what he stood for
///There's more of my kind out there than people realize
 
2020-10-20 10:17:03 AM  

Christian Liberal: I'm glad that more and more real Christians have realized that the Republican Party has abandoned all of Christ's teachings long ago. Unfortunately, there's still too many out there.

/Evangelicals are not real Christians
//Most of them don't even mention Jesus, never mind what he stood for
///There's more of my kind out there than people realize


Too many others out there, I meant.
 
2020-10-20 10:17:11 AM  

shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.


The mean streets of Detroit:

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2020-10-20 10:20:06 AM  
"The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state..."

One of my favorite MLK quotes.
 
2020-10-20 10:23:34 AM  

alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: This is pretty interesting. I grew up heavily churched, and the story of a member leaving the church because they're offended by the pastor or don't agree with something he said from the pulpit, that common. I've even heard of churches firing pastors that they turn sour on. I don't think I've ever heard of a pastor walking away because they didn't agree with the congregation.


Yeah, it's kind of new one for me.  And I had a grandmother who fired two pastors.  It was kind of a joke in the family - when the congregation elected my grandmother to the council presidency, someone was getting fired.
 
2020-10-20 10:24:43 AM  
FTA "trump represents how evangelicals view God."

Fark user imageView Full Size
"

What does God need with a fat racist asshole?
 
2020-10-20 10:26:44 AM  
Have you ever seen the pastor and David GIlmour in the same room?

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2020-10-20 10:27:48 AM  

shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.


It's like saying "Los Angeles pastor" and then you find out the pastor was in Oakland.
 
2020-10-20 10:27:51 AM  
Good on him.
 
2020-10-20 10:28:34 AM  

twistedsteel5252: FTA "trump represents how evangelicals view God."

[Fark user image 259x195]"

What does God need with a fat racist asshole?


Well, at least one wrote a gospel
 
2020-10-20 10:31:52 AM  

Yakk: shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.

The mean streets of Detroit:

[Fark user image image 850x566]
[Fark user image image 768x432]


I imagine jack white is from there
 
2020-10-20 10:33:21 AM  
"If I'm somebody who sees Donald Trump as God's chosen representative, the leader God has chosen to bring the country back to the right direction, I'm willing to overlook his personal failings," Lundskow explained. "(Christians think) if he's good enough to be God's representative, he's good enough to be president."

And of course it never occurs to these people to ever re-evaluate WHY THE FARK they believe DONALD FARKING TRUMP is "God's chosen representative"...
 
2020-10-20 10:36:09 AM  
Mannes sat down with the elders of his church in September to express the tensions he had been feeling. After a long and emotional meeting, they agreed it was time to part ways.

And heaven forbid the church even consider the possibility that they're the asshole.
 
2020-10-20 10:36:15 AM  

Christian Liberal: I'm glad that more and more real Christians have realized that the Republican Party has abandoned all of Christ's teachings long ago. Unfortunately, there's still too many out there.

/Evangelicals are not real Christians
//Most of them don't even mention Jesus, never mind what he stood for
///There's more of my kind out there than people realize


Most of them follow the rules written by a guy who never even met Christ. They're Paulites, not Christians.
 
2020-10-20 10:38:17 AM  

twistedsteel5252: FTA "trump represents how evangelicals view God."



If one dumps the entire new testament and the parts with Jesus, then sure the Evangelicals have a point.
 
2020-10-20 10:39:13 AM  

Petey4335: Glitchwerks: Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.

And there it is. My first eye roll if the morning.


That's fine.  However, do yourself a favor and check out r;QAnonCasualties sometime.  Read about QAnon is destroying families and friendships.  And also be sure to read about how it is infiltrating organized religion.

We are going to have a lot more problems very soon.
 
2020-10-20 10:40:52 AM  
There is a recurring trope within Xtian circles wherein a down-on-his-luck former drug/sex addict, etc. goes into "the ministry" and talks about how awful all the evil stuff was. They turn this into a huge revenue machine and suddenly they are a must-see phenomenon within the Xtian bubble with guest speaker appearances commanding 1000s of dollars. Sell a shiatload of t-shirts and trinkets while they are at it for that sweet incremental revenue...

This is just a new spin on the same thing - attention-whoring while gaslighting to gain some sort of Xtian street cred. This guy will be back to his congregation and others in 2021 preaching a Kumbaya approach and "time of healing" in which we need to forgive a bunch of white supremacist churchgoers. If he's smart he'll make bank - maybe even an ecumenical religious czar appointment from a Biden administration...

/ Abrahamic religions are all equally bad, it's just that white supremacists tend towards Xtianity
// Why did this pastor wait until the power began to shift before declaring, "Trump bad!"
 
2020-10-20 10:42:31 AM  

Halfabee64: Have you ever seen the pastor and David GIlmour in the same room?


They're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl.
 
2020-10-20 10:42:52 AM  

NikolaiFarkoff: I know Methodism doesn't fit the pop culture definition of "evangelical" but it's safe to say that our church's Trump supporters are all over the age of 65 and heavily dependent on the stock market plus some vague desire for cultural protectionism*. They may not love Trump, but he's checking those boxes in their view.

One of our older pastors retired a couple years ago and one of his last sermons was about "tearing down walls" - it was the closest any of them ever got to a political speech, but it was basically an indictment of Trump as the most anti-Christian/non-Christian president in modern history. Total mic drop, you could hear the old people squirming in the pews.


*cultural protectionism includes race, language, nationality, and making sure nobody sits in their usual spot on Sunday or I swear I am leaving this church because things have gotten too progressive!


Voting Trump for the stock market is the classic definition of evil in the Bible. Like, literally Jesus was against that shiat.
 
2020-10-20 10:46:33 AM  

misanthropicsob: shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.

It's like saying "Los Angeles pastor" and then you find out the pastor was in Oakland.


I'd say the more apt California comparison is saying "Oakland pastor" and then you find out the pastor is actually in Redding.
 
2020-10-20 10:51:00 AM  

NikolaiFarkoff: I know Methodism doesn't fit the pop culture definition of "evangelical" but it's safe to say that our church's Trump supporters are all over the age of 65 and heavily dependent on the stock market plus some vague desire for cultural protectionism*. They may not love Trump, but he's checking those boxes in their view.

One of our older pastors retired a couple years ago and one of his last sermons was about "tearing down walls" - it was the closest any of them ever got to a political speech, but it was basically an indictment of Trump as the most anti-Christian/non-Christian president in modern history. Total mic drop, you could hear the old people squirming in the pews.


*cultural protectionism includes race, language, nationality, and making sure nobody sits in their usual spot on Sunday or I swear I am leaving this church because things have gotten too progressive!


I grew up in a super liberal church and there was always the contingent of old people who were racist, sexist and homophobic but ignored those parts because "this was the church they grew up in" or in some cases because it's the closest one to their house.

They were miserable people to deal with.
 
2020-10-20 10:53:15 AM  

SirEattonHogg: misanthropicsob: shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.

It's like saying "Los Angeles pastor" and then you find out the pastor was in Oakland.

I'd say the more apt California comparison is saying "Oakland pastor" and then you find out the pastor is actually in Redding.


We also would have accepted Fresno.
 
2020-10-20 10:58:59 AM  
seowebmarketing.co.ukView Full Size
 
2020-10-20 11:04:11 AM  

Glitchwerks: Petey4335: Glitchwerks: Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.

And there it is. My first eye roll if the morning.

That's fine.  However, do yourself a favor and check out r;QAnonCasualties sometime.  Read about QAnon is destroying families and friendships.  And also be sure to read about how it is infiltrating organized religion.

We are going to have a lot more problems very soon.


Qackers are anti-pedo, you're saying churches are now anti-pedo too? Fark, things must be getting serious.
 
2020-10-20 11:07:23 AM  
I am an atheist, and I don't really know what my advice to a Christian would be worth.
But if asked, I would say "Follow your book, and follow the teachings of your Saviour - and get away from organized religion."
What I can understand of the teachings of Christ seem to stand well enough on their own, without any "help" from orthodoxies or hierarchies.
 
2020-10-20 11:09:54 AM  

Glitchwerks: Petey4335: Glitchwerks: Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.

And there it is. My first eye roll if the morning.

That's fine.  However, do yourself a favor and check out r;QAnonCasualties sometime.  Read about QAnon is destroying families and friendships.  And also be sure to read about how it is infiltrating organized religion.

We are going to have a lot more problems very soon.


Queer people have been experiencing that for generations. If you need guidance, we can help you realize that prioritizing blood-line connections is often stupid and toxic and that true emotional connections are what make a family.

If QAnon is destroying families, now's your chance to finally redefine what a family is. You already did that to us--not saying you deserve it, too, but at least you know what it's like now.
 
2020-10-20 11:10:43 AM  
I'm going to have to revise my 100% amoral filth statistic I've gathered on all christians.  I guess 99.99999999% will have to do.
 
2020-10-20 11:11:33 AM  

jso2897: I am an atheist, and I don't really know what my advice to a Christian would be worth.
But if asked, I would say "Follow your book, and follow the teachings of your Saviour - and get away from organized religion."
What I can understand of the teachings of Christ seem to stand well enough on their own, without any "help" from orthodoxies or hierarchies.


But let's face it, the book isn't the easiest thing in the world to understand. That's why organized religion is there to "explain" and "interpret" it. Unfortunately, sometimes they're also there to twist it to expand their own power and the masses aren't smart enough to realize it.
 
2020-10-20 11:12:31 AM  

UNC_Samurai: shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.

Grand Rapids is basically a Detroit suburb.

/s


Other side of the hand, dude ;)
 
2020-10-20 11:12:55 AM  

jso2897: I am an atheist, and I don't really know what my advice to a Christian would be worth.
But if asked, I would say "Follow your book, and follow the teachings of your Saviour - and get away from organized religion."
What I can understand of the teachings of Christ seem to stand well enough on their own, without any "help" from orthodoxies or hierarchies.


I' won't be particularly interested in what a Christian has to say about God unless they come up with a way to reconcile the loving God of the New Testament with childhood cancer.
 
2020-10-20 11:15:12 AM  

Glitchwerks: Good.

Unfortunately a wolf is going to find his flock of sheep and lead them further astray.


Once you commit or support someone who commited treason, you're not the type of person to go back.
 
2020-10-20 11:15:15 AM  
Lots of levels of to deal with here. There are good folks/christians like this man, then there are those that are on the fence but are too scared to jump ship, then there are those that are using politics to drive their faith, then there are those that are fanatic and actually believe that God sent Trump to save immoral America.
The last 2 I mentioned are literally at the same level as ISIS terrorists. Using religion to accommodate and justify violent ambitions. People always worried about Church getting into politics but I think the opposite has happened. Politics crept into the church and now it's things like masks that are the topic and focus for conservatives rather than the bibles teachings.
 
2020-10-20 11:16:21 AM  

austerity101: You already did that to us--not saying you deserve it, too, but at least you know what it's like now.


I'll assume you are using "you" in general, because I sure didn't do anything of the sort.
 
2020-10-20 11:17:02 AM  

PirateKing: Christian Liberal: I'm glad that more and more real Christians have realized that the Republican Party has abandoned all of Christ's teachings long ago. Unfortunately, there's still too many out there.

/Evangelicals are not real Christians
//Most of them don't even mention Jesus, never mind what he stood for
///There's more of my kind out there than people realize

Most of them follow the rules written by a guy who never even met Christ. They're Paulites, not Christians.


I'm not even sure they're that. Having the unfortunate experience of being around a lot of Falwell-ites, it seems like the most important book in the Bible is Revelations. Evangelizing is away to save their soul, not anyone else's
 
2020-10-20 11:17:07 AM  

shastacola: Holland MI is nowhere near Detroit but good on him.


Yeah, over in DeVosville, in the Western side of the state
 
2020-10-20 11:18:01 AM  

Christian Liberal: /Evangelicals are not real Christians


I'm not surprised at the "No True Scotsman" arguments, but I hope that you realize that to a lot of those on the outside, this just looks like a liberal version of the sectarian gatekeeping that all Christians do.

Christian Liberal: //Most of them don't even mention Jesus


Perhaps not on Fox News appearances, but I'm not sure how you can say this after even a casual perusal of their writings and sermons.

Christian Liberal: never mind what he stood for


Saying this usually means you're smuggling in a politically-oriented 21-st century liberal theology as being the core of "what Jesus stood for." (At the very least there are a lot of different interpretations of the purpose of charity and the interplay between inclusiveness and condemnation of sin.)
 
2020-10-20 11:21:09 AM  
Just part of the reason some of us are former Christians.
 
2020-10-20 11:26:37 AM  

Christian Liberal: I'm glad that more and more real Christians have realized that the Republican Party has abandoned all of Christ's teachings long ago. Unfortunately, there's still too many out there.

/Evangelicals are not real Christians
//Most of them don't even mention Jesus, never mind what he stood for
///There's more of my kind out there than people realize


They probably aren't even real Scotsmen, either.
 
2020-10-20 11:26:57 AM  

jso2897: I am an atheist, and I don't really know what my advice to a Christian would be worth.
But if asked, I would say "Follow your book, and follow the teachings of your Saviour - and get away from organized religion."
What I can understand of the teachings of Christ seem to stand well enough on their own, without any "help" from orthodoxies or hierarchies.


Jesus modelled humanist behaviours. Organised Christianity has taken things in a very different direction, you are correct.

What you're missing as an atheist is you're presuming Christians like that Jesus guy from the bible. What they actually do is they invent Jesus (and God) in their own image. They can completely ignore the gospels, pick and choose whatever they want from the other bits of the OT and NT, interpret them however is most convenient and presto, whatever farked up shiat they're into is now endorsed by God (in their minds anyway).

Some Christians are humanists but most are very definitely not. They'd string Jesus up as a soshulist if they ever met him.
 
2020-10-20 11:27:07 AM  

jso2897: I am an atheist, and I don't really know what my advice to a Christian would be worth.
But if asked, I would say "Follow your book, and follow the teachings of your Saviour - and get away from organized religion."
What I can understand of the teachings of Christ seem to stand well enough on their own, without any "help" from orthodoxies or hierarchies.


There's a lot to unpack and interpret from the Bible, so IMO churches should act like universities (where pastors are akin to professors and counselors) and community service/gathering places for both kids and adults. That's how ours operates, at least...

Now when you get into huge bureaucracies like the Southern Baptist Convention or the Catholic Church, it often turns political very quickly. There is a happy medium of organization and oversight needed, though, otherwise you get all these independent megachurches with no accountability and pastors flying on private jets.
 
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