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(Jezebel)   Court rules Disney was perfectly justified in firing an employee who took paternity leave because he didn't have a baby; his wife did   (jezebel.com) divider line
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1181 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Oct 2020 at 7:53 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-20 6:18:11 AM  
There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."
 
2020-10-20 6:53:04 AM  
I took paternity leave. My daughter was 9 weeks premature, my wife was in the ICU, and when they finally came home, my wife needed a lot of assistance after she got out of the hospital, and when our daughter came home, she needed even more. In those simple two weeks, my wife was able to recover well enough to care for our girl, but that took time. My employer started to get salty about me taking the time, but there was no way in 10,000 Hells that I was going to leave a wife recovering from surgery and our daughter who had spent so much time in the NICU alone. I did touch base to do ordering and process some paperwork, which I picked up and dropped off later in the day--the restaurant was only ten minutes away, even with ugly traffic--but those two weeks I was never further from them than that. The grocery was five minutes away. Gas was right around the corner. To be fair, my wife was looking forward to having some proper alone time with our girl, but not being able to lift her to the changing table that first week meant she needed the help.

There are reasons that fathers need that time with the family, and if I'd lost that job because of taking that time, it would have been worth it.
 
2020-10-20 7:59:24 AM  
These new conservative judges are going to pay off big dividends.
 
2020-10-20 8:00:20 AM  
Soeren claims that co-workers and a superior harassed him about his wife's pregnancy. In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone, according to The Hollywood Reporter:

Did they though?  That's a lot of conjecture for a thing nobody really gives a shiat about.  "Let's hack this guy and find out if he's having a baby!"

Are you sure they didn't just see you googling baby shiat at your desk, or maybe you actually just told them?
 
2020-10-20 8:04:48 AM  
At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.
 
2020-10-20 8:26:04 AM  

Unobtanium: There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."


I can easily believe the company properly hacked him.  Rocket Mortgage/Quicken Loans in Detroit doesn't really try to hide it.  The employees know they are being watched at all times and feel the pressure.  They put security cameras on building that don't belong to them.  When one guy walked off the job, they somehow tracked him to a cornfield 350 miles away that he was just standing in, going nuts.
 
2020-10-20 8:30:29 AM  
The shiatty department store I worked at through college offers paternity leave and Disney doesn't...
 
2020-10-20 8:34:35 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Unobtanium: There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."

I can easily believe the company properly hacked him.  Rocket Mortgage/Quicken Loans in Detroit doesn't really try to hide it.  The employees know they are being watched at all times and feel the pressure.  They put security cameras on building that don't belong to them.  When one guy walked off the job, they somehow tracked him to a cornfield 350 miles away that he was just standing in, going nuts.


miro.medium.comView Full Size

Was it this guy?
 
2020-10-20 8:34:48 AM  
Whaat...

Humans vs MegaCorp and the courts find in favor of MegaCorp...

IN AMERICA??

well I never...
 
2020-10-20 8:50:07 AM  

hubiestubert: I took paternity leave. My daughter was 9 weeks premature, my wife was in the ICU, and when they finally came home, my wife needed a lot of assistance after she got out of the hospital, and when our daughter came home, she needed even more. In those simple two weeks, my wife was able to recover well enough to care for our girl, but that took time. My employer started to get salty about me taking the time, but there was no way in 10,000 Hells that I was going to leave a wife recovering from surgery and our daughter who had spent so much time in the NICU alone. I did touch base to do ordering and process some paperwork, which I picked up and dropped off later in the day--the restaurant was only ten minutes away, even with ugly traffic--but those two weeks I was never further from them than that. The grocery was five minutes away. Gas was right around the corner. To be fair, my wife was looking forward to having some proper alone time with our girl, but not being able to lift her to the changing table that first week meant she needed the help.

There are reasons that fathers need that time with the family, and if I'd lost that job because of taking that time, it would have been worth it.


I hear you.

My son did about 6 weeks in the NICU, 4 of that in an incubator. Fortunately, my bosses were understanding. I got the type of crap work that would normally mean I was being punished, but it was work I could do alone, from home, on my own schedule. So, I didn't have to take any time off while he was in the NICU, but we could still visit every day for hours.

Once he came home, I took my paternity leave, and my accumulated banked time, and some vacation time. I think I was home for close to three months. When I went back, I started on a new program, and all was well. Great boss, great employer.

Of course, my wife was off for the year, because this is Canada
 
2020-10-20 9:02:35 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Unobtanium: There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."

I can easily believe the company properly hacked him.  Rocket Mortgage/Quicken Loans in Detroit doesn't really try to hide it.  The employees know they are being watched at all times and feel the pressure.  They put security cameras on building that don't belong to them.  When one guy walked off the job, they somehow tracked him to a cornfield 350 miles away that he was just standing in, going nuts.


The Rock Family of Companies own A LOT of real estate in Detroit.
 
2020-10-20 9:03:15 AM  
here is the advice I always give new expecting fathers:

Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.  The whole family will focus on the baby as well, make sure the new mom is not lonely.

This isn't from a macho stance, my wife was physically attached our kids for lots of time with the feeding.  Not much time to cook for herself, sleep, shower or do much else.  Barely had time or energy to eat, powerbars most times.

Other advice is the umbilical cord is thick.  It ain't no easy snip like on TV.  That is like cutting leather, it may take a few hacks to get thru it.
 
2020-10-20 9:05:36 AM  
Why does any of this surprise anyone? Disney has always hated the idea of parents.
 
2020-10-20 9:16:21 AM  
This is the United States, what did anyone expect. If you honestly don't think corporations have more rights than actual people then take them to court for practically anything and you'll find out quickly that our courts "originalist" have created something that has never existed and was never intended to.
 
2020-10-20 9:31:17 AM  
Disney is run by a bunch of dicks
 
2020-10-20 9:31:23 AM  
He says they must of hacked his personnel email.  I bet they really found out because his wife, etc posted a baby gender revel video on facebook, and it showed up on everybody's facebook page.
 
2020-10-20 9:36:02 AM  

wingnut396: At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.


My father was born in 1944 to a 43 year old mother so crazy shiat happens.
 
2020-10-20 9:38:30 AM  
What were the Disney lawyers thinking?

You don't want to win such a fight against parents of small children if you're Disney.  You want to shop for a judge who is wise and can come to a non-radioactive conclusion.
 
2020-10-20 9:58:59 AM  

wingnut396: At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.


And people think the increase of autism is because of vaccines, not better screening and much older parents.
 
2020-10-20 10:10:35 AM  
scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.netView Full Size
 
2020-10-20 10:51:38 AM  

Hyjamon: here is the advice I always give new expecting fathers:

Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.  The whole family will focus on the baby as well, make sure the new mom is not lonely.

This isn't from a macho stance, my wife was physically attached our kids for lots of time with the feeding.  Not much time to cook for herself, sleep, shower or do much else.  Barely had time or energy to eat, powerbars most times.

Other advice is the umbilical cord is thick.  It ain't no easy snip like on TV.  That is like cutting leather, it may take a few hacks to get thru it.


How old ancient are you?
 
2020-10-20 10:52:55 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Unobtanium: There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."

I can easily believe the company properly hacked him.  Rocket Mortgage/Quicken Loans in Detroit doesn't really try to hide it.  The employees know they are being watched at all times and feel the pressure.  They put security cameras on building that don't belong to them.  When one guy walked off the job, they somehow tracked him to a cornfield 350 miles away that he was just standing in, going nuts.


Maybe they traced him to the printer he was smashing.
 
2020-10-20 10:53:57 AM  

Marcos P: The shiatty department store I worked at through college offers paternity leave and Disney doesn't...


To be fair. It sounds like this was before Disney acquired the company.
 
2020-10-20 11:09:45 AM  

Russ1642: Hyjamon: here is the advice I always give new expecting fathers:

Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.  The whole family will focus on the baby as well, make sure the new mom is not lonely.

This isn't from a macho stance, my wife was physically attached our kids for lots of time with the feeding.  Not much time to cook for herself, sleep, shower or do much else.  Barely had time or energy to eat, powerbars most times.

Other advice is the umbilical cord is thick.  It ain't no easy snip like on TV.  That is like cutting leather, it may take a few hacks to get thru it.

How old ancient are you?


not sure why my post depicts me as ancient.

As a father, I really cannot feed a newborn baby.  Biology really doesn't allow, and pumping isn't always an option.

But I can change a baby's diapers.  I can do laundry.  I can cook.  I can clean.  I can look after the other kids.  i can do those other things so she can focus on the baby's needs and her own.

/sleep when the baby sleeps, ha
 
2020-10-20 11:13:32 AM  

Hyjamon: Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.


This. The reason you're ancient is this. Did you see this? Yeah, that attitude was old ages ago.
 
2020-10-20 11:26:10 AM  

Russ1642: Hyjamon: Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.

This. The reason you're ancient is this. Did you see this? Yeah, that attitude was old ages ago.


should it be flipped then?  I don't hear many tales of post-partum depression for fathers.
 
2020-10-20 11:29:35 AM  

Hyjamon: Russ1642: Hyjamon: Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.

This. The reason you're ancient is this. Did you see this? Yeah, that attitude was old ages ago.

should it be flipped then?  I don't hear many tales of post-partum depression for fathers.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-20 11:35:28 AM  

Russ1642: Hyjamon: Russ1642: Hyjamon: Your wife's job is to take care of the baby, your job is to take care of your wife.

This. The reason you're ancient is this. Did you see this? Yeah, that attitude was old ages ago.

should it be flipped then?  I don't hear many tales of post-partum depression for fathers.

[Fark user image 850x478]


may have to agree to disagree then.  was it the use of the word 'job'?

would duty, role, focus, responsibility work better?

Just curious, unless you are reading it as advocating that the father has no responsibilities when it comes to the new born, which I do not endorse.
 
2020-10-20 12:14:28 PM  
My wife had a c-section with our daughter. My son was 18 months when my daughter was born. My wife's sister came and stayed with us for 3 weeks. I went back to work.
 
2020-10-20 12:25:41 PM  

Marcos P: The shiatty department store I worked at through college offers paternity leave and Disney doesn't...


It seems there's a shiat ton of information missing from the article.  He was fired after he returned from paternity leave, which seems to suggest the leave was approved.  The only details regarding the lawsuit mention he was claiming discrimination as a protected class, which the judge ruled against since he wasn't the pregnant one.

Not defending Disney here at all, but the article is extremely light on details.


I got a week paternity leave for our first kid, and took an additional week of vacation.  When our second came along I was working at a new job (current one) where we got 2 weeks.  So I did the same and added a week vacation.  So I've been lucky in that regard.  However they've recently changed their policy to allow primary caregivers a full 12 weeks paid, which a co-worker just took over the summer.
 
2020-10-20 12:31:28 PM  

tricycleracer: wingnut396: At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.

My father was born in 1944 to a 43 year old mother so crazy shiat happens.


Heck, some women CAN have a baby well into their 40's and early 50's. It isn't a 'can you', it's a 'should you'.
 
2020-10-20 12:31:48 PM  

bfh0417: My wife had a c-section with our daughter. My son was 18 months when my daughter was born. My wife's sister came and stayed with us for 3 weeks. I went back to work.


Which is great if you've both got a sister willing to do that and you don't mind being away from the newborn. You can let people manage this stuff on their own but at least allow men the right to be the parent they wish to be.
 
2020-10-20 3:26:32 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Marcos P: The shiatty department store I worked at through college offers paternity leave and Disney doesn't...

It seems there's a shiat ton of information missing from the article.  He was fired after he returned from paternity leave, which seems to suggest the leave was approved.  The only details regarding the lawsuit mention he was claiming discrimination as a protected class, which the judge ruled against since he wasn't the pregnant one.

Not defending Disney here at all, but the article is extremely light on details.


Yeah this thread is filled with almost everyone NOT READING THE FARKING ARTICLE. But even if they had, there's clearly a lot of information missing in service of the clickbaity headline.
 
2020-10-20 3:32:58 PM  
This is one of those cases where the judge assumes everything in the complaint is true and makes a legal determination.  None of the "facts" were vetted.  They were assumed to be true.  And he still lost.
 
2020-10-20 5:43:39 PM  

bfh0417: tricycleracer: wingnut396: At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.

My father was born in 1944 to a 43 year old mother so crazy shiat happens.

Heck, some women CAN have a baby well into their 40's and early 50's. It isn't a 'can you', it's a 'should you'.


Our daughter was born when the wife and I were 42.  She's a smart kid, was class president in high school, top 10 in her class of over 400, and is going to college on a full academic scholarship.

When my wife was pregnant, one of our "friends" told us that she could never be so irresponsible as to have a baby at our age.  Screw her and screw you too.
 
2020-10-20 8:20:15 PM  

Unobtanium: There's a metric shiat ton of creepiness in that, because it looks like the employer had access to his personal email accounts:

In a complaint, he says that co-workers seemed to have knowledge of his internet searches and conversations he'd had off the clock in his own home, likely gleaned from hacking into his private email and phone,

Now, we all know "hacking" could be something dumb, like he actually logged into his personal email from a work computer that is monitored, and probably agreed to a ToS or employment rule that said "whatever you do on our computer belong to us." Not enough detail.

So, the other thing this story reminds me of was a freshman college English professor. First day of class he gives out the syllabus and goes over his rules. One of which was that if you were having a baby he would accept that as an excused absence, however if you were the father, he would not. He said you had to be there to get things started but not to see the outcome. I was *this* close to raising my hand and asking if I could tell him I was absent because I was "getting things started."


Not commenting on the claim here, DNRTA, just your note about personal email. Do not *ever* access your personal email on a corporate device. In your desktop there is likely a proxy in the middle that catches everything except financial and health sites. This same device is also used for lawsuit compliance blocking things like porn and hate sites, to name two.

On your corporate phone, there is likely a corporate "management profile" installed. This also allows them to remotely wipe the phone, and see every piece of data that crosses the device.

You have near zero expectation of privacy on a corporate device. They have a vested interest in protecting their network/data, and contract compliance considerations on top of that concern.

So if the person in the article accessed their email on a corporate device, it's quite possible the entirety of the emails they opened were literally recorded. This is typically noted in the "Acceptable Use Policy" from HR that people sign.
 
2020-10-20 10:49:19 PM  

EasilyDistracted: bfh0417: tricycleracer: wingnut396: At 30 my wife and I thought about it but decided that we'd wait until 40.

So good luck with that.

My father was born in 1944 to a 43 year old mother so crazy shiat happens.

Heck, some women CAN have a baby well into their 40's and early 50's. It isn't a 'can you', it's a 'should you'.

Our daughter was born when the wife and I were 42.  She's a smart kid, was class president in high school, top 10 in her class of over 400, and is going to college on a full academic scholarship.

When my wife was pregnant, one of our "friends" told us that she could never be so irresponsible as to have a baby at our age.  Screw her and screw you too.


Our oldest will be six in February.
Our twins will be two in January.
I just turned 41, and my wife is turning 39 in January.

Conversely, my parents are 60 and 59.
 
2020-10-21 1:24:50 AM  
I worked in senior management at Disney for almost ten years. (Won't specify which division, but... adjacent to streaming.) Disney was incredibly militant about anti-discrimination training and equality initiatives with its managers and executive teams. Especially around gender discrimination in technology. I was actually pretty on-board and supportive of it, and was proud of the fact that my teams were significantly more diverse than the industry averages, and that I never had a complaint from any employee about anyone else on my teams.

But then I got a new boss. This boss had a full-time executive assistant who had been at the company 15+ years.  (We lower level execs had to share one.) She headed up a girl's club of other executive assistants and our HR business partners who would grab my butt, squeeze my arms, put their hands on my chest, stop meetings to compliment how "hot" I was looking in a particular t-shirt, etc. I complained to HR. HR explained that it couldn't be sexual harassment by definition, because I was gay and they were women.

I quit a few months later. That incident wasn't the main reason, but it was definitely the final little shove.
 
2020-10-21 10:21:35 AM  

DJanomaly: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Marcos P: The shiatty department store I worked at through college offers paternity leave and Disney doesn't...

It seems there's a shiat ton of information missing from the article.  He was fired after he returned from paternity leave, which seems to suggest the leave was approved.  The only details regarding the lawsuit mention he was claiming discrimination as a protected class, which the judge ruled against since he wasn't the pregnant one.

Not defending Disney here at all, but the article is extremely light on details.

Yeah this thread is filled with almost everyone NOT READING THE FARKING ARTICLE. But even if they had, there's clearly a lot of information missing in service of the clickbaity headline.


Welcome to Fark
 
2020-10-21 1:39:04 PM  

EvilEgg: These new conservative judges are going to pay off big dividends.


Appointed by Bill Clinton
 
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