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(Washington Post)   Political "expert": The Trump crime family should not be prosecuted   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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3962 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Oct 2020 at 3:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-10-18 1:52:36 PM  
29 votes:
This is why I don't punish children for killing the dog and burning the house down. Let history judge.
 
2020-10-18 5:19:30 PM  
15 votes:
Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.

Meanwhile here are some known facts:

Hunter Biden had a 50k per month salary with Burisma.....despite no background in their industry and no connections to the country.

Oh, btw.  It's documented fact Burisma was trying to get close to well connected individuals with the literal purpose of trying to influence investigations being done on them.  From the NYT:
" Hunter Biden and his American business partners were part of a broad effort by Burisma to bring in well-connected Democrats during a period when the company was facing investigations backed not just by domestic Ukrainian forces but by officials in the Obama administration."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us​/​politics/biden-son-ukraine.html?smid=n​ytcore-ios-share

But apparently this is a non issue for the media.  How is this possible?

This white wash on Hunter Biden is iterally what propaganda looks like.

"Propaganda is communication that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propa​g​anda
 
2020-10-18 4:23:32 PM  
10 votes:

gonegirl: Can they still be hunted for sport?


No. You can hunt them but you can't enjoy it.
 
2020-10-18 1:28:21 PM  
8 votes:
At first I agreed with the headline, but then I thought This is America. We don't do summary executions here.
 
2020-10-18 5:50:25 PM  
7 votes:
He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.
 
2020-10-18 4:18:24 PM  
7 votes:
You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.
 
2020-10-18 6:04:36 PM  
6 votes:
 
2020-10-18 4:22:25 PM  
6 votes:
 
2020-10-18 3:51:48 PM  
5 votes:
Dear author,

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2020-10-18 10:13:31 AM  
5 votes:
If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.
 
2020-10-18 6:02:36 PM  
4 votes:

MattytheMouse: DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~

...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning

Dammit! You're right. I'm just a mouse on a keyboard.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size

It must be like pilates for you. Can you hit H + the Windows key to turn on speech-to-text with your tiny, tiny body? Or does it just register "eek, eek, eek?"

God, I'm racist. Specist?
 
2020-10-18 6:55:42 PM  
3 votes:

emtwo: MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]

i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,

Trying alleged criminals in court for the crimes of which they are accused is not "weaponizing politics."


Can you name a single president in the last 100 years who has not committed a crime in the view of some group? Or, ever, name one president who, in the view of the opposition, has not committed a single crime.

Yes, there are degrees. But the fact is every president commits crimes. Every single one of them.

Get the bastard for tax evasion or rape, go get him. I HATE Trump too.

God, I WANT to prosecute him for what he did as president . . What I want, and what I feel though, are not always the best options.
 
2020-10-18 6:05:53 PM  
3 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 5:44:42 PM  
3 votes:
RWNJs really need to see a doctor, their hard-on for Hunter Biden has lasted longer than 4 months.
 
2020-10-18 5:38:46 PM  
3 votes:
Every day for the past decade, the differences between WaPo and NYPo have become smaller and smaller.
 
2020-10-18 5:13:14 PM  
3 votes:

king of vegas: Donald Trump must be prosecuted simply for this country to start its recovery. If he doesn't then there will be a wound that never heals.


Reconstruction 2: Electric Boogaloo
 
2020-10-18 4:48:22 PM  
3 votes:
DNRTFA, but there's a genuine case for not pressing charges against at least Trump himself---assuming he is even competent to stand trial. The less tyrants have to lose personally by stepping aside with no fuss, the more likely they are to do the decent thing.

Consider that most of the leaders of the German Democratic Republic only did a few years in jail, and the senile Erich Honecker none at all. And Trump never did get his wall---unless you count the closure of the Canadian border to non-essential travel.

Honecker died in exile in Chile, cared for by his daughter till his death. If Mr. and Mrs. Kushner decide to leave for Israel, and take Daddy with them, with the understanding that all three will stay gone and out of American politics, wish them bon voyage.

Trump has earned the contempt of all decent people, and a place in history as one of the worst presidents the United States ever had. He hasn't earned martyrdom.
 
2020-10-18 10:56:33 AM  
3 votes:

Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.


My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.
 
2020-10-18 10:15:47 AM  
3 votes:
Every time Republicans aren't prosecuted, they answer with even more reprehensible behavior. Holding them accountable is the only answer. They have no shame.
 
2020-10-18 10:10:27 AM  
3 votes:
I guess the writer has forgotten about and justice for all and all are equal under the law parts being important in the US.
 
2020-10-18 6:49:55 PM  
2 votes:
To be fair, it is a bit of an academic question, at least as regards federal criminal prosecution. Trump is going to pardon himself and all his henchmen before leaving office.
 
2020-10-18 6:30:43 PM  
2 votes:
Well thank goodness we got at least one Alternative Viewpoint Farker to make us all feel refreshed
 
2020-10-18 5:06:30 PM  
2 votes:

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: edmo: There is precedent in the form of Nixon that can be debated. The rest of them? Lock them up.

Trump makes Nixon look like a farking boy scout. I think if Nixon were alive to see what Trump was doing now, he'd vomit in terror.


Nah, Nixon wasn't above doing anything that Trump has done. Nixon just didn't believe he could do it so brazenly and get away with it.

And honestly, Nixon probably could have gotten away with everything that Trump has, had he only known. The Republicans were as much party-before-country then as they are now.
 
2020-10-18 4:54:14 PM  
2 votes:

mrparks: emtwo:

How is a op-ed from Jill Lepore a clear signal from Joe?


What does the part that specifically describes Joe Biden's position on the matter have to do with Joe Biden's position on the matter?

Truly, a question for the ages.
 
2020-10-18 4:42:09 PM  
2 votes:

JohnnyApocalypse: Biden is walking a tightrope between the concepts Lepore urges and what the left demands. "Let justice decide." He won't advocate for investigations, but neither will he stand in the way of them. This is perhaps the best and only way he and the nation can move forward.


I agree with the rest of your post, but I think this is a crystal-clear signal from Biden that there will be zero investigations, indictments, or prosecutions relating to Trump at the federal level.

Sure, Biden will not interfere with a DOJ that wants to prosecute Trump. But you can be damned sure he'll appoint an AG that has committed to not doing so.
 
2020-10-18 4:10:46 PM  
2 votes:
Does history have a tough prison system?
 
2020-10-18 4:04:22 PM  
2 votes:

Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.


And Second Atty General Preet Bharara.

/cuz you're gonna need more than one
 
2020-10-18 3:24:49 PM  
2 votes:
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Isn't that the drum that Republicans are constantly beating (when they take a break from beating their wives)?
 
2020-10-18 1:11:09 PM  
2 votes:

Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.


Question: Is there anything that prevents the VP also serving as AG?
 
2020-10-18 10:55:39 AM  
2 votes:
I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.
 
2020-10-18 10:48:26 AM  
2 votes:
If this is not addressed now, we will suffer many more Trumps.
 
2020-10-18 10:34:13 PM  
1 vote:

INTERTRON: GrizzlyPouch: Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.

According to who?  You?  lol


Do you have a link to something showing any evidence of Trump using his position for financial gain?  not speculation, actual evidence.

According to the link I posted from the NYT, Burisma sought out individuals with political influence that they could give money to for friendlier treatment.  That's not my words it's the New York Times'

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us​/​politics/biden-son-ukraine.html?smid=n​ytcore-ios-share

And then they hired Hunter Biden and paid him 500k per year for a job he didn't have to show up for (he doesn't even speak Ukrainian)

And THEN Joe Biden went on tv and said I told them to fire that prosecutor (the one that was investigating Burisma) or you aren't getting your billion dollars.

I mean that's pretty bad.  Don't you think?

Especially when you consider Trump got impeached for saying on a phone call, hey do you think you could look into this?
 
2020-10-18 9:12:37 PM  
1 vote:
If the past few decades of criminal presidents seeing no consequences didn't tell you he was going to get away, the reaction of liberals when he got covid should have made you realize they're going to rehabilitate him like Reagan and the Bushes.
 
2020-10-18 5:18:43 PM  
1 vote:

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


Up until today, presidents are above the law.  Or have been.  They are clearly above the law.

If we don't prosecute Trump, we will cement this fact into precedent, and no future president or staffer will think twice about doing heinous, illegal, and corrupt things.

I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.
 
2020-10-18 5:10:48 PM  
1 vote:

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


You make a very good point in that first paragraph.  Yes, it's obvious he did shady stuff.  Yes, it was wrong.  But it was in the course of his capacity as President.  And it would set a precedent for the opposition to bring charges on every damn thing they don't like, simply because it appears to be the same.

So any effort to go after that stuff, especially if brought up by the opposition party would not help matters.  As badly as we'd like to see that, it's probably not going to happen.

But we need to tighten the screws a little bit to prevent that sort of thing happening again.  Like, actual rules that are enforceable, for a start.
 
2020-10-18 4:56:33 PM  
1 vote:
Betsy DeVos needs to be prosecuted for bioterrorism.
 
2020-10-18 4:53:46 PM  
1 vote:

codergirl42: RICO


Break it all up and force it in to conservatorship as the entire family sits in prison.
 
2020-10-18 4:52:16 PM  
1 vote:

mofa: Of we don't punish Trump, there might not be a future (U.S.) history.


It's not just punishing him. It's sealing every single legal loophole he exploited and enforcing an actual checks and balances system that the President must answer for his decisions.
 
2020-10-18 4:50:43 PM  
1 vote:

Super Chronic: You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.


Being prolific is not the same as being an "expert."

See for example: my collection of posts on Fark.

The thesis of this opinion piece is that democracy only works if those in power are completely immune to prosecution of any sort, except that which occurs in the court of public opinion. That is utter farking dogshiat that should immediately dispel any notions of expertise on the subject.

I don't know anything about this lady except what was included in her byline, but I see no evidence that she's an expert on any subject besides ignorant bloviating.
 
2020-10-18 4:44:29 PM  
1 vote:
emtwo:

How is a op-ed from Jill Lepore a clear signal from Joe?
 
2020-10-18 4:36:40 PM  
1 vote:

Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.


That's one of the reasons I wanted to see Stacy Abrams as VP, so Harris could be AG and Warren could be either Treasurer or (preferably) Senate majority leader
 
2020-10-18 4:32:32 PM  
1 vote:
The only conclusion you can draw from this endless stream of false accusations is that, at least in Washington terms, the man is a saint.
 
2020-10-18 4:27:28 PM  
1 vote:
I don't see how Subby calls that headline a summary of the article. A few excerpts:

"Its [The Trump Administration's] wrongdoing - a litany that includes corruption, fomenting insurrection, separating parents and children at the border, and violently suppressing political dissent - should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances, tried in ordinary courts."

"There is every reason to fear that the administration will destroy the evidence of its malfeasance and incompetence, especially its abuses of human rights, its violations of the Constitution and its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump routinely tears up notes, papers and other documents - aides call this his "filing system" - in violation of the Presidential Records Act(historians' actions against the administration on this score have so far been unsuccessful)."

"Biden, emphasizing the independence of the Justice Department, has stated that he would neither question its judgment nor interfere with its actions should it decide to pursue charges."
 
2020-10-18 4:22:55 PM  
1 vote:
Can they still be hunted for sport?
 
2020-10-18 4:18:18 PM  
1 vote:
You know what Biden should do? Do like we did when we invaded Iraq, with a deck of cards with the pictures of top republicans that need to be arrested and hanged.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 4:17:03 PM  
1 vote:

aleister_greynight: By this reasoning we shouldn't have prosecuted Nazi's after WW2 either.


To be fair, as many as we prosecuted many others were hired to run our space program.
 
2020-10-18 4:16:47 PM  
1 vote:
If Democrats say they're going to prosecute Trump then Republicans might start doing crazy things like chanting "lock her up" at their political enemies. You guys need to be civil even when it is clearly long past the time where civility will do any good.
 
2020-10-18 4:06:58 PM  
1 vote:

Glorious Golden Ass: Pence says he has faith in our justice system.  So, put Trump on trial and let the jury decide.  If he's convicted, and he really believes he's a saint, he can let history vindicate him.


Fark a jury. Send him to the ICC. Then a military court in Guantanamo. Then a criminal court in NY.

After all his trials, add all his sentences and put his ass in the most disgusting Rikers island cell with the biggest baddest mexican/black cellmates. (first, execute all the white supremacists at the prison, hell, execute them in all US prisons on the same day, why are we keeping that trash alive to begin with?)
 
2020-10-18 4:00:58 PM  
1 vote:
There is precedent in the form of Nixon that can be debated. The rest of them? Lock them up.
 
2020-10-18 4:00:11 PM  
1 vote:
Dear Jill Lepore, Fark you.

Strongly worded letter to follow.

Signed the American People.

/ Seriously Trump keeps climbing higher on the fascist pole, running from his crimes, so it seems he wants to go out Mussolini style.
// An independent investigation w/ full authority to go where it is needed to go would really shake shiat up in DC.
/// Which is the real argument against prosecution. The argument for prosecution is 200 million strong and growing.

P.S. history has roughly judged many a person in the past, and they are not remembered by anyone save a few dusty historians. For now the people need justice. and unless they get bought off w/ tripe, it ain't gonna end there.
 
2020-10-18 2:47:39 PM  
1 vote:
Whoever that is should be fully ignored.

If you aren't gonna hold the most powerful people in America responsible for their crimes, then what's the damn point of anything.
 
2020-10-18 2:04:44 PM  
1 vote:

labman: Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.

A whole lot of this.  We don't want to charge for things that conceivably be policy related.  For all the other fraud he's committed, sure.  I think slander is OK, too.  Some of the shiat he's saying about Biden with no zero grounds in truth should come with a penalty, too.


fark off.

Using your presidency as a means to grift their American public and use foreign policies to further their own political gain, should be punished.
 
2020-10-18 2:01:22 PM  
1 vote:

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


"Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."  Richard Nixon

What you are suggesting is a dictatorship. Illegal actions by the executive office still need to be prosecuted. Especially calls he made for his own political and financial benifits.

Reagan, Bush, W. Bush got away with a lot. No more.
 
2020-10-18 11:25:59 AM  
1 vote:

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


A whole lot of this.  We don't want to charge for things that conceivably be policy related.  For all the other fraud he's committed, sure.  I think slander is OK, too.  Some of the shiat he's saying about Biden with no zero grounds in truth should come with a penalty, too.
 
2020-10-18 10:14:53 AM  
1 vote:
The only lesson to be learned by letting trump and criminal republicans off the hook is that the law doesn't apply to the powerful.
 
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