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(Washington Post)   Political "expert": The Trump crime family should not be prosecuted   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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4086 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Oct 2020 at 3:50 PM (34 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



243 Comments     (+0 »)
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2020-10-18 10:10:27 AM  
I guess the writer has forgotten about and justice for all and all are equal under the law parts being important in the US.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2020-10-18 10:13:31 AM  
If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.
 
2020-10-18 10:14:53 AM  
The only lesson to be learned by letting trump and criminal republicans off the hook is that the law doesn't apply to the powerful.
 
2020-10-18 10:15:47 AM  
Every time Republicans aren't prosecuted, they answer with even more reprehensible behavior. Holding them accountable is the only answer. They have no shame.
 
2020-10-18 10:48:26 AM  
If this is not addressed now, we will suffer many more Trumps.
 
2020-10-18 10:52:36 AM  
I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.
 
2020-10-18 10:55:39 AM  
I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.
 
2020-10-18 10:56:33 AM  

Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.


My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.
 
2020-10-18 11:02:42 AM  
I don't advocate for doing it but the only argument for not prosecuting the Trumps is because the author believes we should throw them into a lake to see if they float.

If they think we're supposed to let this sort of corruption go unpunished then clearly someone needs to see who they or their spouse have been cashing checks from lately.

This is, without question, the most corrupt administration in American history.  If they don't deserve prosecution, and I mean every single one of them, who does?
 
2020-10-18 11:25:59 AM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


A whole lot of this.  We don't want to charge for things that conceivably be policy related.  For all the other fraud he's committed, sure.  I think slander is OK, too.  Some of the shiat he's saying about Biden with no zero grounds in truth should come with a penalty, too.
 
2020-10-18 11:40:08 AM  
What would stop future Presidents from being as bad or worse if we were to give Donny a pass?

The writer is a Harvard historian. She really should know better.
 
2020-10-18 11:52:34 AM  

Exluddite: Every time Republicans aren't prosecuted, they answer with even more reprehensible behavior. Holding them accountable is the only answer. They have no shame.


Yes.  And this isn't merely academic.  We have the real-world progression from Watergate to Iran Contra to GWB that illustrates this with terrifying clarity.
 
2020-10-18 12:12:20 PM  
DNRTFA

Yeah, no. Prosecute his ass. Send him to the clinker for the rest of his life.
 
2020-10-18 1:11:09 PM  

Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.


Question: Is there anything that prevents the VP also serving as AG?
 
2020-10-18 1:28:21 PM  
At first I agreed with the headline, but then I thought This is America. We don't do summary executions here.
 
2020-10-18 1:52:36 PM  
This is why I don't punish children for killing the dog and burning the house down. Let history judge.
 
2020-10-18 1:54:47 PM  
Yeah...that would set the terrible precedent that leaders could be held responsible for their own actions.....
 
2020-10-18 2:01:22 PM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


"Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."  Richard Nixon

What you are suggesting is a dictatorship. Illegal actions by the executive office still need to be prosecuted. Especially calls he made for his own political and financial benifits.

Reagan, Bush, W. Bush got away with a lot. No more.
 
2020-10-18 2:04:44 PM  

labman: Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.

A whole lot of this.  We don't want to charge for things that conceivably be policy related.  For all the other fraud he's committed, sure.  I think slander is OK, too.  Some of the shiat he's saying about Biden with no zero grounds in truth should come with a penalty, too.


fark off.

Using your presidency as a means to grift their American public and use foreign policies to further their own political gain, should be punished.
 
2020-10-18 2:08:45 PM  
This country will not survive without an attempt to make Trump account for his blatant and repeated corruption, abuse of power and obstruction of justice, because without an credible deterrent the next guy like him will arrive on the scene before long, and he or she will be a lot smarter than Trump--as just about everyone is smarter than him--and that will be the ball game.
 
2020-10-18 2:29:59 PM  
By this reasoning we shouldn't have prosecuted Nazi's after WW2 either.
 
2020-10-18 2:47:39 PM  
Whoever that is should be fully ignored.

If you aren't gonna hold the most powerful people in America responsible for their crimes, then what's the damn point of anything.
 
2020-10-18 3:09:46 PM  
Of we don't punish Trump, there might not be a future (U.S.) history.
 
2020-10-18 3:24:49 PM  
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Isn't that the drum that Republicans are constantly beating (when they take a break from beating their wives)?
 
2020-10-18 3:32:40 PM  
That GWB and his administration was not subject to criminal investigation and prosecution under Obama is instructive to the strengths and failings of her argument. The transfer of power between Obama and Bush not only was peaceful, but there was effective coordination between the two administrations that allowed Obama some victories in his own administration, which were victories for the nation itself. But allowing certain Bush policies to slide without scrutiny left Trump with leverage to foist his own criminal actions onto the public.

But here's a big difference in Bush's administration and Trump's - there may have been actions which would ultimately be deemed so illegal as to be impeachable, but one cannot say his administration was based on an underpinning of lawlessness. The Trump administration has no vision of anything but holding power and making money for themselves or their donors. Not only are Trump policies morally bankrupt, but they require stretching and breaking our laws and norms to effect them. His border policies, his international policies, how his administration is run, how administration members campaign for him, how staff communication and the execution of Trump policies are masked, the entire way Trump's government is run is corrosive and illegal, and the entire thing escapes accountability using legal footdragging and a complicit senate.

The author's urging of abstaining from making partisanship illegal is strong for normal administrations but weak for problematic administrations that allow bad policies to become precedence, and worst for such an obvious anomaly as this administration is. Heck, even now, Trump is telling his rally goers that his opponent should be imprisoned.

Biden is walking a tightrope between the concepts Lepore urges and what the left demands. "Let justice decide." He won't advocate for investigations, but neither will he stand in the way of them. This is perhaps the best and only way he and the nation can move forward. He will be free of the appearance of a political witch hunt, and the DOJ can punish the Trump administration for the most serious of its transgressions. In the meantime, apart from Biden changing policies of the executive branch to fall back in line of fair play, congress has the heaviest lifting to fix what Trump and the Republicans broke.
 
2020-10-18 3:51:48 PM  
Dear author,

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 3:52:20 PM  
LOL.

No.
 
2020-10-18 3:54:12 PM  
Oh! Like when we put Iran Contra behind us for the good of the country and every Republican mouth breathing commentator said the Dems were weak?

I want heads on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations that something's come with too high a price.  Call it Vir's Revenge.
 
2020-10-18 3:54:26 PM  
Come January I expect we'll be hearing a LOT of  "we need to move past partisan politics and Heal As A Nation"
 
2020-10-18 3:54:42 PM  
fark anybody who stands in the way of delivering justice to this crime family.
 
2020-10-18 3:56:10 PM  

Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.


Fark user imageView Full Size


I prefer this gentleman.
 
2020-10-18 3:56:12 PM  
I think we should join the international court, and send him the Hague for trial so it will be non partisan.
 
2020-10-18 3:56:30 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 3:57:10 PM  
They walk and America is done.

Won't happen right away, but it will happen.
 
2020-10-18 3:57:49 PM  
If you do not prosecute him future Republican Presidents will openly commit worse crimes.

If you do prosecute him, the next Republican Presidents will have to at least try to hide their crimes.
 
2020-10-18 3:58:50 PM  
Trump getting away with these crimes will be the white liberal wake up call that minorities have always heard.
 
2020-10-18 3:58:52 PM  
Translation: "Let Trump Get Away With Everything And Keep All The Millions He Stole From You"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV0sK​6​5PyVI&ab_channel=CristianShowman

Daniel Bryan No! No! No!
Youtube MV0sK65PyVI
 
2020-10-18 3:58:53 PM  

not enough beer: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

[Fark user image 425x267]

I prefer this gentleman.


Yates and Bharara, both are perfectly acceptable. Nay, perfectly awesome. Yates might go through confirmation easier than Bharara, as I think senate Republicans would be more f*ckerish against Bharara for "being too partisan".
 
2020-10-18 3:59:00 PM  
Prosecuted, convicted, shot live on tv to show the entire world and especially his supporters what happens to treasonous farks.
 
2020-10-18 4:00:11 PM  
Dear Jill Lepore, Fark you.

Strongly worded letter to follow.

Signed the American People.

/ Seriously Trump keeps climbing higher on the fascist pole, running from his crimes, so it seems he wants to go out Mussolini style.
// An independent investigation w/ full authority to go where it is needed to go would really shake shiat up in DC.
/// Which is the real argument against prosecution. The argument for prosecution is 200 million strong and growing.

P.S. history has roughly judged many a person in the past, and they are not remembered by anyone save a few dusty historians. For now the people need justice. and unless they get bought off w/ tripe, it ain't gonna end there.
 
2020-10-18 4:00:58 PM  
There is precedent in the form of Nixon that can be debated. The rest of them? Lock them up.
 
2020-10-18 4:01:01 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: not enough beer: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

[Fark user image 425x267]

I prefer this gentleman.

Yates and Bharara, both are perfectly acceptable. Nay, perfectly awesome. Yates might go through confirmation easier than Bharara, as I think senate Republicans would be more f*ckerish against Bharara for "being too partisan".


Well yeah. Bharara was a nightmare for politicians and bigger money in the SDNY. Yates would have the problem of having been fired while trying to warn Trump about Russia.  They are both tough as nails and both going to be a lightening rod.
 
2020-10-18 4:02:16 PM  
Pence says he has faith in our justice system.  So, put Trump on trial and let the jury decide.  If he's convicted, and he really believes he's a saint, he can let history vindicate him.
 
2020-10-18 4:02:40 PM  
Well good thing he is only a political expert and not a legal expert.
 
2020-10-18 4:03:06 PM  

Airius: I think we should join the international court, and send him the Hague for trial so it will be non partisan.


And they cannot be pardoned by a later administration
Add Bush II administration to the pile as well
 
2020-10-18 4:03:49 PM  
"Professor of American History at Harvard"

And oh, BTW, burning private ivy league education to the ground would greatly clean up government too.
 
2020-10-18 4:04:22 PM  

Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.


And Second Atty General Preet Bharara.

/cuz you're gonna need more than one
 
2020-10-18 4:05:23 PM  
You don't get a pass just be you were president.  We are all equal under the law.
 
2020-10-18 4:05:55 PM  

Jack Sabbath: At first I agreed with the headline, but then I thought This is America. We don't do summary executions here.


Why not? It seems if the elites won't respect the laws of the land, then why should we rabble have to?
 
2020-10-18 4:06:05 PM  
BullSchit I tell ya!!!
 
2020-10-18 4:06:12 PM  
Let history prosecute all criminals then
 
2020-10-18 4:06:25 PM  

Gubbo: Whoever that is should be fully ignored.

If you aren't gonna hold the most powerful people in America responsible for their crimes, then what's the damn point of anything.


Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown...
 
2020-10-18 4:06:58 PM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Pence says he has faith in our justice system.  So, put Trump on trial and let the jury decide.  If he's convicted, and he really believes he's a saint, he can let history vindicate him.


Fark a jury. Send him to the ICC. Then a military court in Guantanamo. Then a criminal court in NY.

After all his trials, add all his sentences and put his ass in the most disgusting Rikers island cell with the biggest baddest mexican/black cellmates. (first, execute all the white supremacists at the prison, hell, execute them in all US prisons on the same day, why are we keeping that trash alive to begin with?)
 
2020-10-18 4:07:09 PM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


I think any behavior tied to trying to get dirt on a political opponent goes well into abuse of power and should be prosecuted. Using the power of the government against a political opponent is the epitome of corruption and should be be punished. Plus, all interference into trials and investigation, i.e. obstruction of justice, should also be prosecuted. Simply something a functioning democracy should not 'overlook'. Future administrations will simply take if further.
 
2020-10-18 4:08:06 PM  
" In democracies, a peaceful transfer of power has two elements: The loser concedes without violence, and the winner accepts without vengeance. "

And the US historical precedent for an administration like this is, that we should follow precedent?

And BTW, due process, with a fair jury trial, and  the accused having legal council for the defense is not vengeance.

/or is catching people doing stuff wrong unfair?
// at least we wouldn't be following Italy's 1945 precedent or France's 1792 precedent, and thus we establish our transfer of power is peaceful
 
2020-10-18 4:08:15 PM  
Nope. Hang him, shoot him, burn him after a fair trial.

At least 220,000 times.
 
2020-10-18 4:09:06 PM  
Is the answer instead go directly to executed?  Because I'm okay with that.  Also all the GOP members who assisted in this travesty going back 3 generations to anyone still around from Nixon's administration.
 
2020-10-18 4:10:46 PM  
Does history have a tough prison system?
 
2020-10-18 4:11:14 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Jack Sabbath: At first I agreed with the headline, but then I thought This is America. We don't do summary executions here.

Why not? It seems if the elites won't respect the laws of the land, then why should we rabble have to?


You may have misunderstood Jack's point, I'm thinking.
 
2020-10-18 4:11:27 PM  

iheartscotch: Yeah...that would set the terrible precedent that leaders could be held responsible for their own actions.....


The crazy ass insistence that the people in government should not be help accountable is like a cancer killing this country.  EVERY PERSON IN A POSITION OF POWER SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.
 
2020-10-18 4:12:49 PM  
RICO
 
2020-10-18 4:13:05 PM  
cdn.theatlantic.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 4:14:26 PM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call...

... Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment


The Ukraine call was an explicit use of United States' government resource and policy for personal gain.
 
2020-10-18 4:14:58 PM  

bostonguy: Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.

Question: Is there anything that prevents the VP also serving as AG?


ag is a cabinet position iirc.  so, having one person in more than one point in the line of succession should be a no-no.
 
2020-10-18 4:15:10 PM  

JRoo: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 720x405]


Came here to point this out.

There are 200,000+ dead from this administration's COVID response.

There are 5,000 dead in Puerto Rico.

And we have absolutely no idea how many dead there are in ICE detention centers.

Trump needs to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.
 
2020-10-18 4:16:39 PM  

webron: iheartscotch: Yeah...that would set the terrible precedent that leaders could be held responsible for their own actions.....

The crazy ass insistence that the people in government should not be help accountable is like a cancer killing this country.  EVERY PERSON IN A POSITION OF POWER SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.


They should be held to a higher standard than the average American, just like the police, but neither are held to any standard at all.
 
2020-10-18 4:16:47 PM  
If Democrats say they're going to prosecute Trump then Republicans might start doing crazy things like chanting "lock her up" at their political enemies. You guys need to be civil even when it is clearly long past the time where civility will do any good.
 
2020-10-18 4:17:03 PM  

aleister_greynight: By this reasoning we shouldn't have prosecuted Nazi's after WW2 either.


To be fair, as many as we prosecuted many others were hired to run our space program.
 
2020-10-18 4:18:18 PM  
You know what Biden should do? Do like we did when we invaded Iraq, with a deck of cards with the pictures of top republicans that need to be arrested and hanged.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 4:18:24 PM  
You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.
 
2020-10-18 4:20:33 PM  

eurotrader: I guess the writer has forgotten about and justice for all and all are equal under the law parts being important in the US.


The writer also seems to have forgotten about the hundreds of thousands of American bodies buried this year as the direct result of this administrations negligence.

I also feel I'm being kind by calling it negligence.
 
2020-10-18 4:21:24 PM  
NO. JOE ARPAIO'S TENT CITY FOR ALL OF THE COMPLICIT PARTIES, FOR THE DURATION OF THEIR NATURAL LIVES.
 
2020-10-18 4:22:25 PM  
 
2020-10-18 4:22:25 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: not enough beer: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

[Fark user image 425x267]

I prefer this gentleman.

Yates and Bharara, both are perfectly acceptable. Nay, perfectly awesome. Yates might go through confirmation easier than Bharara, as I think senate Republicans would be more f*ckerish against Bharara for "being too partisan".


Easy. Yates gets confirmed, Yates appoints Bharara special prosecutor
 
2020-10-18 4:22:42 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: not enough beer: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

[Fark user image 425x267]

I prefer this gentleman.

Yates and Bharara, both are perfectly acceptable. Nay, perfectly awesome. Yates might go through confirmation easier than Bharara, as I think senate Republicans would be more f*ckerish against Bharara for "being too partisan".


Feh. At this point whatever those traitorous bastards are thinking should be ignored. They're going to be f*ckerish with any pick that isn't a straight MAGAt pick.
 
2020-10-18 4:22:55 PM  
Can they still be hunted for sport?
 
2020-10-18 4:23:32 PM  

gonegirl: Can they still be hunted for sport?


No. You can hunt them but you can't enjoy it.
 
2020-10-18 4:24:13 PM  
Screw that. I thirst for vengeance.
 
2020-10-18 4:24:25 PM  
If he shouldn't be prosecuted , he shouldn't have done the crimes .. He was elected or putin the highest office in America to serve the people .. He needs to be made an example of how severely people can be dealt with for betraying that trust .. Enough of this bullsh*t ..
 
2020-10-18 4:25:52 PM  

JRoo: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 720x405]


I gave you a smart because we don't have a sad tag ..
 
2020-10-18 4:27:22 PM  
Bullshiat. We absolutely MUST prosecute this family and I do mean all of them. If you want to flout nepotism laws and actually gouge the US by using it to enrich your family, you absolutely should be prosecuted or else it will never stop. There will be no incentive for future generations to not do the exact same thing.
 
2020-10-18 4:27:28 PM  
I don't see how Subby calls that headline a summary of the article. A few excerpts:

"Its [The Trump Administration's] wrongdoing - a litany that includes corruption, fomenting insurrection, separating parents and children at the border, and violently suppressing political dissent - should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances, tried in ordinary courts."

"There is every reason to fear that the administration will destroy the evidence of its malfeasance and incompetence, especially its abuses of human rights, its violations of the Constitution and its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump routinely tears up notes, papers and other documents - aides call this his "filing system" - in violation of the Presidential Records Act(historians' actions against the administration on this score have so far been unsuccessful)."

"Biden, emphasizing the independence of the Justice Department, has stated that he would neither question its judgment nor interfere with its actions should it decide to pursue charges."
 
2020-10-18 4:27:33 PM  
Ctrl-F feasance:   One mention of malfeasance.  No mention of difference between misfeasance and malfeasance, of which Donny is guilty of a great deal of both.  On going back through the article, your entire argument seems to be that because he wasn't as bad as some other tyrants and a Truth and Reconciliations committee may not be called for, let it go.  Oh yeah, also skip any criminal proceedings because the Dems need to spend some time on self-reflection.

Quite frankly, that is some asinine horsesh*t.  Prosecute Donnie into as many life sentences as possible, and F*CK YOU, Jill Lepore.
 
2020-10-18 4:28:01 PM  
 
2020-10-18 4:28:26 PM  

Malenfant: webron: iheartscotch: Yeah...that would set the terrible precedent that leaders could be held responsible for their own actions.....

The crazy ass insistence that the people in government should not be help accountable is like a cancer killing this country.  EVERY PERSON IN A POSITION OF POWER SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

They should be held to a higher standard than the average American, just like the police, but neither are held to any standard at all.


Here is a guy that gets it.  You should be teaching at Harvard, not the dumbass author.
 
2020-10-18 4:29:52 PM  
Read the article, it was a bunch of BSAB.

I'm admittedly nowhere near as well versed in history as she is, let alone antiquities studies. But that said, it's worth drawing a comparison. One of the things that led roman consuls to become dictators was losing immunity from prosecution after their stint as consul was over. The answer to that isn't that we should make that immunity lifelong, the proper answer is that they shouldn't be immune to it period. The Roman practice was crank the crime dial up to 11 when you could get away with it, then crime it some more to stay in power. Trump is doing the same thing. You can see how well it worked for the roman republic too.
 
2020-10-18 4:30:18 PM  

wildsnowllama: aleister_greynight: By this reasoning we shouldn't have prosecuted Nazi's after WW2 either.

To be fair, as many as we prosecuted many others were hired to run our space program.


And commutated a very large number of prison terms in 1946
We also lost the political will to properly finish the Japanese problem, we simply gave up on. Prosecutions and didn't follow through on the same legal anti fascist laws Germany got
 
2020-10-18 4:32:21 PM  
They should, but I have full expectations that they won't.
 
2020-10-18 4:32:23 PM  

nullandvoid744: Fiat justitia ruat caelum.


Yes
 
2020-10-18 4:32:32 PM  
The only conclusion you can draw from this endless stream of false accusations is that, at least in Washington terms, the man is a saint.
 
2020-10-18 4:33:08 PM  
This twitter thread explains why this ivory tower elitist is exactly wrong.

https://twitter.com/andrew_seal/statu​s​/1317840043688546304

unrolled

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/13​1​7840043688546304.html

worth the read
 
2020-10-18 4:35:33 PM  
Dear Jill:

You should take a look at this, someone is using your letterhead to write stupid stuff.
 
2020-10-18 4:36:40 PM  

Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.


That's one of the reasons I wanted to see Stacy Abrams as VP, so Harris could be AG and Warren could be either Treasurer or (preferably) Senate majority leader
 
2020-10-18 4:36:44 PM  
I guess they're right. I'm fine moving straight to summary guilty verdicts and harsh sentences. The prosecution is kind of a waste of time considering the orgy of evidence that's already available.
 
2020-10-18 4:40:45 PM  
Make an example of every damn thing they are all guilty for.
 
2020-10-18 4:40:58 PM  
Not prosecuting would be the equivalent of saying it's okay, and inviting future presidents tondo the same.

But prosecuting risks having "tit for tat" revenge prosecutions when the other party gets back in power.

Solution: prosecute under republican judges, so it is clearly not political. If republican judges want to give a pass to criminal acts, make it clearly known that lawlessness is a product of voting republican
 
2020-10-18 4:42:05 PM  
How naive.
 
2020-10-18 4:42:09 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Biden is walking a tightrope between the concepts Lepore urges and what the left demands. "Let justice decide." He won't advocate for investigations, but neither will he stand in the way of them. This is perhaps the best and only way he and the nation can move forward.


I agree with the rest of your post, but I think this is a crystal-clear signal from Biden that there will be zero investigations, indictments, or prosecutions relating to Trump at the federal level.

Sure, Biden will not interfere with a DOJ that wants to prosecute Trump. But you can be damned sure he'll appoint an AG that has committed to not doing so.
 
2020-10-18 4:43:57 PM  
No, they should get what they deserve, supermax prison cells, only allowed outside 30 minutes a day, and none of them ever get to see each other ever again. Trump, Jared, Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric, Barr, and the rest.

And the Republicans who allowed this absurd shiat to go on, and even actively spoke out in favor of Trump, people like Ted Cruz, Mitch McConnell, and Lindsey Graham should never be allowed to hold a political office again. Anywhere. 

There should be consequences all around. You don't get to stack 220,000 civilian bodies and walk away.
 
2020-10-18 4:44:29 PM  
emtwo:

How is a op-ed from Jill Lepore a clear signal from Joe?
 
2020-10-18 4:46:52 PM  
Go fark yourself Washington Post.
 
2020-10-18 4:47:34 PM  
It needs to be as clear as possible the the Biden administration isn't prosecuting the Trump Family for political reasons or political decisions.  But the AG needs free reign to identify and prosecute for all of the other stuff. The financial crimes, especially.  There's plenty to send them all to prison for damn near ever without it appearing to be vengeance by a new president.
 
2020-10-18 4:48:22 PM  
DNRTFA, but there's a genuine case for not pressing charges against at least Trump himself---assuming he is even competent to stand trial. The less tyrants have to lose personally by stepping aside with no fuss, the more likely they are to do the decent thing.

Consider that most of the leaders of the German Democratic Republic only did a few years in jail, and the senile Erich Honecker none at all. And Trump never did get his wall---unless you count the closure of the Canadian border to non-essential travel.

Honecker died in exile in Chile, cared for by his daughter till his death. If Mr. and Mrs. Kushner decide to leave for Israel, and take Daddy with them, with the understanding that all three will stay gone and out of American politics, wish them bon voyage.

Trump has earned the contempt of all decent people, and a place in history as one of the worst presidents the United States ever had. He hasn't earned martyrdom.
 
2020-10-18 4:48:46 PM  
Looks like the Prez isn't the only cornered animal; get ready for a lot of this from the Republican Party in short order. It's going to be eerily similar to a serial killer, hearing the guilty verdict in court, giving puppy dog eyes to the jury to try to get a nicer sentence. And the thing is, it's worked before, so Republicans have every reason to try it again.

Mitch will say, "The Democrats need to work with us." Biden may honestly wish he were able to, but it's all in bad faith, so the only thing to do, really is steamroll him--or get steamrolled, like Obama too often did, frankly.

But that's not all. "Let's bring this country back together," will be used as a plea to try and avoid a number of prosecutions. Nunes, Johnson, Pence, various Trumps, Barr, and quite a few others, are all probably worthy of prosecution for crimes the intelligence community probably knows a thing or two about. "Think of the country, though!"

And the DOJ needs to prosecute them. They need to go to prison. Every. Single. One. Examples need to be made, and it can't just be Flynn and the others who've already pled guilty.
 
2020-10-18 4:50:43 PM  

Super Chronic: You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.


Being prolific is not the same as being an "expert."

See for example: my collection of posts on Fark.

The thesis of this opinion piece is that democracy only works if those in power are completely immune to prosecution of any sort, except that which occurs in the court of public opinion. That is utter farking dogshiat that should immediately dispel any notions of expertise on the subject.

I don't know anything about this lady except what was included in her byline, but I see no evidence that she's an expert on any subject besides ignorant bloviating.
 
2020-10-18 4:51:03 PM  
Nuts. The Trumps don't care about history. They care about money and power. We already know that people who only care about money and power are bad, The Trumps need to be driven from power.

Pour encourager les autres.
 
2020-10-18 4:51:29 PM  
In a just world, Trump wouldn't even be on the ballot because most of the Republican party would be in jail.
 
2020-10-18 4:51:35 PM  

edmo: There is precedent in the form of Nixon that can be debated. The rest of them? Lock them up.


Trump makes Nixon look like a farking boy scout. I think if Nixon were alive to see what Trump was doing now, he'd vomit in terror.
 
2020-10-18 4:51:41 PM  
This is not about political revenge. This is about administration of justice. If Trump et al have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear.

No one, not even the President, is above the law.
 
2020-10-18 4:52:16 PM  

mofa: Of we don't punish Trump, there might not be a future (U.S.) history.


It's not just punishing him. It's sealing every single legal loophole he exploited and enforcing an actual checks and balances system that the President must answer for his decisions.
 
2020-10-18 4:53:43 PM  
They have to prosecuted as a warning to the next group
 
2020-10-18 4:53:46 PM  

codergirl42: RICO


Break it all up and force it in to conservatorship as the entire family sits in prison.
 
2020-10-18 4:54:14 PM  

mrparks: emtwo:

How is a op-ed from Jill Lepore a clear signal from Joe?


What does the part that specifically describes Joe Biden's position on the matter have to do with Joe Biden's position on the matter?

Truly, a question for the ages.
 
2020-10-18 4:54:19 PM  
Remember Trump* is the guy who suggested that we not only kill terrorists but their families as well.
Remember that?
Seems so long ago.
Yes he must be brought to justice.
He's gone so far over the line that we have no choice but to re-establish what is and what is not acceptable. We must codify it in law, and Trump* must be made an example.
 
2020-10-18 4:55:26 PM  
While video of tRump sacrificing a goat on the altar, raping three nuns, and setting fire to the vestry has been authenticated it has also been reported that Biden farted quite loudly in the same church only two weeks previously, leaving voters questioning the piety of both candidates.

/ BSAB "investigative journalism" ain't gonna help shiat
 
2020-10-18 4:56:33 PM  
Betsy DeVos needs to be prosecuted for bioterrorism.
 
2020-10-18 4:58:48 PM  

Catlenfell: They have to prosecuted as a warning to the next group


Yep. If Nixon did some time, we might not be dealing with an entirely-lawless Republican party today.
There have to be consequences for lawlessness.
 
2020-10-18 4:59:16 PM  
"Be reasonable, you don't know what he'll really do when in office, give him a chance."

"Be reasonable, you can't prosecute a sitting President."

"Be reasonable, going after a political opponent immediately after a transition of power would be unseemly."

"Be reasonable, it's been years. He's moved on and built a respectable life; why can't you move on too?"

"Be reasonable, the man has just died. Can't you let his loved ones mourn before scoring cheap political points?"

"Be reasonable, he was a man of his time. Things were different then; we can't judge the past with modern morality."
 
2020-10-18 5:01:00 PM  

pkjun: "Be reasonable, you don't know what he'll really do when in office, give him a chance."

"Be reasonable, you can't prosecute a sitting President."

"Be reasonable, going after a political opponent immediately after a transition of power would be unseemly."

"Be reasonable, it's been years. He's moved on and built a respectable life; why can't you move on too?"

"Be reasonable, the man has just died. Can't you let his loved ones mourn before scoring cheap political points?"

"Be reasonable, he was a man of his time. Things were different then; we can't judge the past with modern morality."


Counterpoint: fark that.
 
2020-10-18 5:05:06 PM  
Aaron Burr had to flee. Burr should be our model not Nixon.
 
2020-10-18 5:06:30 PM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: edmo: There is precedent in the form of Nixon that can be debated. The rest of them? Lock them up.

Trump makes Nixon look like a farking boy scout. I think if Nixon were alive to see what Trump was doing now, he'd vomit in terror.


Nah, Nixon wasn't above doing anything that Trump has done. Nixon just didn't believe he could do it so brazenly and get away with it.

And honestly, Nixon probably could have gotten away with everything that Trump has, had he only known. The Republicans were as much party-before-country then as they are now.
 
2020-10-18 5:07:52 PM  
TFA begs the question, if the Nazis were unable to fully push the holocaust, if they only killed a few hundred thousand or a million or so, should they have been prosecuted?

Or too, if they hadn't but, given what we know, were surely going to?

That's where we are. The Trump terror organization was not as bad as the Nazis, true, but not because they weren't going to be, and still could be if we don't stop them.

This needs to be fully investigated and prosecuted to the hilt.
 
2020-10-18 5:08:21 PM  

Super Chronic: You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.


did you go out of your way to read her terrible take on the sentencing of serial rapist Dr. Larry Nassar?

she is predisposed to protect the powerful, the institutions that benefit her and everything establishment. she belittles sexual assault survivors and waxes about the good old days of people knowing their place. she insults the average person at the expense of those she feels educational and cultural kinship with.

she's your standard privileged academic with a blind spot as big as Harvard University Memorial Hall. writers like her at aging flagships are a dime a dozen.
 
2020-10-18 5:10:23 PM  
Donald Trump must be prosecuted simply for this country to start its recovery. If he doesn't then there will be a wound that never heals.
 
2020-10-18 5:10:48 PM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


You make a very good point in that first paragraph.  Yes, it's obvious he did shady stuff.  Yes, it was wrong.  But it was in the course of his capacity as President.  And it would set a precedent for the opposition to bring charges on every damn thing they don't like, simply because it appears to be the same.

So any effort to go after that stuff, especially if brought up by the opposition party would not help matters.  As badly as we'd like to see that, it's probably not going to happen.

But we need to tighten the screws a little bit to prevent that sort of thing happening again.  Like, actual rules that are enforceable, for a start.
 
2020-10-18 5:11:30 PM  
Crimes are not partisan. Prosecute crimes. Do not prosecute politics.

There's a difference and it's obvious.

This whole thing about "not setting a precedent of a new administration prosecuting the previous" is only valid if actual crimes were not committed. Trump prosecuting Obama would have been a politically-motivated witch hunt because Obama didn't do anything that broke the law. Prosecuting Trump for treason, fraud, slander, libel, Hatch Act violations, and theft in office isn't political; those are crimes no matter who commits them.
 
2020-10-18 5:13:14 PM  

king of vegas: Donald Trump must be prosecuted simply for this country to start its recovery. If he doesn't then there will be a wound that never heals.


Reconstruction 2: Electric Boogaloo
 
2020-10-18 5:13:30 PM  

Super Chronic: You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.


Authoritative people whom we agree with give us these opportunities to reevaluate them occasionally, and if you're a Jill Lepore fan, you should be grateful. Don't dismiss a disagreement as a one-off. Check your author/analyst, and check yourself. If you can figure out where the problem is, sometimes you can walk away from these situations with evidence that you haven't drunk any Kool-Aid and, even though you can agree with someone a lot, you're still paying enough attention to know when you don't, and brave enough to say so.

What we have here is kind of an equivocating mess. Not BSAB (which is something else people say so they don't have to check themselves) but an idea that truth and punishment are mutually exclusive. Which kinda goes against the foundations of the justice system that the author claims to think is still working. Seeking to punish can interfere with finding the truth, but that doesn't mean the first step to finding the truth must be to rule out punishment.

There's also no guarantee that if we rule out punishment we'll get the truth, or do any introspection. What's likely to happen is the same thing that's been happening: we get our peaceful transition of power, nobody follows up, and after a couple cycles somebody shows up to break even more rules with impunity. You can plot a line from Nixon through Reagan and both Bushes to Trump, and it shows an increasing disregard for norms and the rule of law. We've kept our peaceful transitions of power, but we're losing more structural integrity each time.

We don't have a lot of incentive to make an accounting of ourselves, or anyone else. Punishment vs. no punishment doesn't change that no matter what side you come down on. We might jail a few people and call it fixed, or we might not and say it's fine. Either way, it's easier to embrace normalcy after a scary shock like this and go back to sleep.

We do need to turn around and look at what got us here - everything cannot be blamed on Trump alone - but TFA doesn't provide a mechanism for doing that, just for letting another batch of known bad actors go.
 
2020-10-18 5:15:33 PM  
Death penalty for Hatch Act violations.

Death penalty for emoluments violations, no baloney memo protections. Emolument violations need to be the quickest way for a president to get self farked out of office.

Codify them clearly into enforceable laws.
 
2020-10-18 5:16:05 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: This twitter thread explains why this ivory tower elitist is exactly wrong.

https://twitter.com/andrew_seal/status​/1317840043688546304

unrolled

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/131​7840043688546304.html

worth the read



There is a cost in not smashing up the political power of people who have seriously abused that power.
 
2020-10-18 5:17:43 PM  
Harvard University professor just means moron with impeccable credentials.
 
2020-10-18 5:18:43 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


Up until today, presidents are above the law.  Or have been.  They are clearly above the law.

If we don't prosecute Trump, we will cement this fact into precedent, and no future president or staffer will think twice about doing heinous, illegal, and corrupt things.

I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.
 
2020-10-18 5:19:30 PM  
Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.

Meanwhile here are some known facts:

Hunter Biden had a 50k per month salary with Burisma.....despite no background in their industry and no connections to the country.

Oh, btw.  It's documented fact Burisma was trying to get close to well connected individuals with the literal purpose of trying to influence investigations being done on them.  From the NYT:
" Hunter Biden and his American business partners were part of a broad effort by Burisma to bring in well-connected Democrats during a period when the company was facing investigations backed not just by domestic Ukrainian forces but by officials in the Obama administration."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us​/​politics/biden-son-ukraine.html?smid=n​ytcore-ios-share

But apparently this is a non issue for the media.  How is this possible?

This white wash on Hunter Biden is iterally what propaganda looks like.

"Propaganda is communication that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propa​g​anda
 
2020-10-18 5:20:41 PM  
One does not reconcile with malignant tumors.
 
2020-10-18 5:21:38 PM  
The best way to end a witch hunt is to burn the witches.

Every last one.
 
2020-10-18 5:21:50 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: Super Chronic: You may disagree with this stance but don't put "expert" in quotes. (Well, I guess I just did, but you know what I'm saying.) Jill Lepore is no joke. She's one of the few writers in the country I'll go out of my way to read. Although her latest book, These Truths, is pretty daunting at nearly 1,000 pages.

did you go out of your way to read her terrible take on the sentencing of serial rapist Dr. Larry Nassar?

she is predisposed to protect the powerful, the institutions that benefit her and everything establishment. she belittles sexual assault survivors and waxes about the good old days of people knowing their place. she insults the average person at the expense of those she feels educational and cultural kinship with.

she's your standard privileged academic with a blind spot as big as Harvard University Memorial Hall. writers like her at aging flagships are a dime a dozen.


That's the problem with those that use past history to argue that we should let bygones be bygones, instead of looking at what is actually happening and the absolute need to deal with it or worse will end up happening as time goes on.

If we actually listening to Ms. Lepore and didn't do anything against the criminal enterprise currently running the nation, we'll look more like the former USSR should a much more savvy, charismatic, and intelligent right winger end up gaining the Presidency.

Much like the fact that nothing was truly done to deal with the Confederacy after the Civil War, to do nothing and take no legal actions against the Trump administration will prove that we as a nation don't have the guts or strength to do what is necessary, even if it's considered to be uncomfortable for a subsection of the populace.
 
2020-10-18 5:22:00 PM  

rga184: I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.


I would highly suggest that you begin preparing to lose your shiat.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 5:22:31 PM  
GrizzlyPouch:


OK, polyp.
 
2020-10-18 5:22:51 PM  
Expect a hell of a lot more of this pathetic articles in the days and weeks to come leading up to January 20th. I expect by end of year there will be opinion pieces that will amount to pure begging. Couple that with the ever increasing op-eds that best be summed up as "I was against him all along, I am innocent, please don't prosecute me, just ignore the blood on my hands"
 
2020-10-18 5:25:40 PM  

nullandvoid744: Fiat justitia ruat caelum.


Bears Bears Bears...
If criminals getting away with crimes of the Trumps' magnitude is required for the state to survive then is should fail. They should be prosecuted at least as hard as some black kid with a joint.
 
2020-10-18 5:26:48 PM  
Only if you want future presidents to do the same. To not prosecute would practically be a job advert for criminal presidents looking to profit off the presidency. I can't imagine anything stupider other than re-electing trump.
 
2020-10-18 5:27:50 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


We must hold him accountable regardless of the violence that will ensue. It is coming regardless.
 
2020-10-18 5:32:27 PM  
Lock Him up!
 
2020-10-18 5:32:31 PM  

Glorious Golden Ass: Pence says he has faith in our justice system.  So, put Trump on trial and let the jury decide.  If he's convicted, and he really believes he's a saint, he can let history vindicate him.


So long as there is at least one Republican on the jury, he will be acquitted.
 
2020-10-18 5:34:14 PM  
FTA: "None of the conditions of a truth and reconciliation commission apply to Trump's four years in the White House."


I guess you're about to find out, having previously farked around.
 
2020-10-18 5:36:16 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.


According to who?  You?  lol
 
2020-10-18 5:36:26 PM  
Because nothing says "No one should ever do that again" better than not holding anyone accountable.
 
2020-10-18 5:36:54 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


Most wealthy people are above the law.
Haven't you noticed that yet?

Whos going to hold a trump accountable?
The Cops?
You?
 
2020-10-18 5:38:46 PM  
Every day for the past decade, the differences between WaPo and NYPo have become smaller and smaller.
 
2020-10-18 5:39:57 PM  

Aetre: Looks like the Prez isn't the only cornered animal; get ready for a lot of this from the Republican Party in short order. It's going to be eerily similar to a serial killer, hearing the guilty verdict in court, giving puppy dog eyes to the jury to try to get a nicer sentence. And the thing is, it's worked before, so Republicans have every reason to try it again.

Mitch will say, "The Democrats need to work with us." Biden may honestly wish he were able to, but it's all in bad faith, so the only thing to do, really is steamroll him--or get steamrolled, like Obama too often did, frankly.

But that's not all. "Let's bring this country back together," will be used as a plea to try and avoid a number of prosecutions. Nunes, Johnson, Pence, various Trumps, Barr, and quite a few others, are all probably worthy of prosecution for crimes the intelligence community probably knows a thing or two about. "Think of the country, though!"

And the DOJ needs to prosecute them. They need to go to prison. Every. Single. One. Examples need to be made, and it can't just be Flynn and the others who've already pled guilty.


They need to respond with "indeed, let's bring this nation back together, with liberty and justice for all. With that in mind, your trial begins next Monday."
 
2020-10-18 5:42:05 PM  
Trump is actually the perfect former president to punish for his actions. Once he's out of office and no use to the GOP, there will be more than a few in their ranks who would be happy to put him away.

As long as Barr,  DeVos, Ross, etc. get their day  in court as well. If they didn't do anything illegal, I'm sure they'd welcome the chance to clear the air and put the Trump error behind us.
 
2020-10-18 5:42:24 PM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.

Most wealthy people are above the law.
Haven't you noticed that yet?

Whos going to hold a trump accountable?
The Cops?
You?


Here's the problem if nothing is done to the criminal enterprise also known as the Trump administration.

If no legal actions are taken against many members of said criminal enterprise, then the next time it happens (and it would definitely happen again), you can bet your ass that the people of the US would take 'dealing with' another criminal administration in a much less 'genteel' way (that is, there would be a lot of people that would take physical action against said administration).

It's one reason why even the Founding fathers realized that there had to be a way to deal with at least a criminal president (impeachment).  Because if there is no legal way to deal with them, then people will take it upon them to engage in much more illegal actions.
 
2020-10-18 5:43:19 PM  
Democracy does in darkness~
 
2020-10-18 5:44:42 PM  
RWNJs really need to see a doctor, their hard-on for Hunter Biden has lasted longer than 4 months.
 
2020-10-18 5:46:04 PM  

Exluddite: Every time Even when Republicans aren't areprosecuted, they answer with even more reprehensible behavior. Holding them accountable is the only answer. They have no shame.


Their response to the impeachment of Nixon has been to support the Republican President no matter what he has done.
 
2020-10-18 5:49:37 PM  

MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~


...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning
 
2020-10-18 5:50:25 PM  
He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.
 
2020-10-18 5:50:40 PM  
Execute the Trump klan 2021

/execute them
 
2020-10-18 5:51:19 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~

...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning


Dammit! You're right. I'm just a mouse on a keyboard.
 
2020-10-18 5:58:35 PM  
Altimus Prime:

So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm

If stuff like that was investigated and prosecuted properly they wouldn't be "the norm" to begin with.
 
2020-10-18 6:00:07 PM  

MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.


Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:00:15 PM  

Trainspotr: Trump is actually the perfect former president to punish for his actions. Once he's out of office and no use to the GOP, there will be more than a few in their ranks who would be happy to put him away.

As long as Barr,  DeVos, Ross, etc. get their day  in court as well. If they didn't do anything illegal, I'm sure they'd welcome the chance to clear the air and put the Trump error behind us.


Trump is perfect because once you start investigating his crimes you are going to find ties to the crimes of the entire Trump family/organization. You're also going to find ties to crimes committed by the RNC and RNA. If you investigate those you'll find that a lot of prominent Republicans are criminals. Keep pulling at the threads and eventually you'll need to build a prison for all the conservatives that below there.
 
2020-10-18 6:01:29 PM  

MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.
Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.
We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.
By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.
The bastard walks.


F*CK THAT NOISE.  There is a difference between misfeasance and malfeasance.  It needs to be pushed as hard as possible on as many of these complicit sh*tstains as possible and made into a warning for future generations.  The Repubs have been getting away with entirely too much for entirely too long.
 
2020-10-18 6:02:36 PM  

MattytheMouse: DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~

...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning

Dammit! You're right. I'm just a mouse on a keyboard.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size

It must be like pilates for you. Can you hit H + the Windows key to turn on speech-to-text with your tiny, tiny body? Or does it just register "eek, eek, eek?"

God, I'm racist. Specist?
 
2020-10-18 6:04:36 PM  
 
2020-10-18 6:05:19 PM  
Wow, I mean, welcome to Fark and all, but this has to be some kind of record for the headline saying the exact opposite of what's in the article. And especially on something this important, good work!
 
2020-10-18 6:05:51 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~

...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning

Dammit! You're right. I'm just a mouse on a keyboard.

[i.pinimg.com image 600x338]
It must be like pilates for you. Can you hit H + the Windows key to turn on speech-to-text with your tiny, tiny body? Or does it just register "eek, eek, eek?"

God, I'm racist. Specist?


It's a workout, I tell you! And unfortunately, my computer doesn't have an integrated mic.
 
2020-10-18 6:05:53 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:06:39 PM  

emtwo: Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.


Like hell it does.  It used to be an aspiration, needs to be again.
 
2020-10-18 6:07:34 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.

Meanwhile here are some known facts:

Hunter Biden had a 50k per month salary with Burisma.....despite no background in their industry and no connections to the country.

Oh, btw.  It's documented fact Burisma was trying to get close to well connected individuals with the literal purpose of trying to influence investigations being done on them.  From the NYT:
" Hunter Biden and his American business partners were part of a broad effort by Burisma to bring in well-connected Democrats during a period when the company was facing investigations backed not just by domestic Ukrainian forces but by officials in the Obama administration."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/​politics/biden-son-ukraine.html?smid=n​ytcore-ios-share

But apparently this is a non issue for the media.  How is this possible?

This white wash on Hunter Biden is iterally what propaganda looks like.

"Propaganda is communication that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propag​anda


There are no trolls on fark.
 
2020-10-18 6:11:30 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/10/​1​7/howie-carr-fear-and-loathing-in-the-​biden-crime-family/


You drew the short straw again, I see.
 
2020-10-18 6:14:16 PM  

MattytheMouse: DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: DoBeDoBeLurk: MattytheMouse: Democracy does in darkness~

...Dallas.

/darn that autocorrect
//it must be hard for a mouse to type!
/// "Democracy Dies in Darkness," increasingly an observation instead of a warning

Dammit! You're right. I'm just a mouse on a keyboard.

[i.pinimg.com image 600x338]
It must be like pilates for you. Can you hit H + the Windows key to turn on speech-to-text with your tiny, tiny body? Or does it just register "eek, eek, eek?"

God, I'm racist. Specist?

It's a workout, I tell you! And unfortunately, my computer doesn't have an integrated mic.


Here, have an image macro for the next one:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:16:16 PM  

aleister_greynight: By this reasoning we shouldn't have prosecuted Nazi's after WW2 either.


We didn't prosecute enough. Some we welcomed to the US under "paperclip" and other projects. "magic marker" for instance. lol.
 
2020-10-18 6:18:38 PM  

Almea Tarrant: RWNJs really need to see a doctor, their hard-on for Hunter Biden has lasted longer than 4 months.


And that is despite the facts that 1) Joe Biden is running not Hunter and 2) that the RWNJs still are without any proof about Hunter having done anything wrong.
 
2020-10-18 6:18:45 PM  

JRoo: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 720x405]


They don't even put them in cages anymore. That would mean they would get a court hearing, even if they were three years old and needed a phone book to reach the bench. But they EXIST.

THIS YEAR they don't even have that. They are taken at the border and put in hotels and not even processed but 'expelled". They don't even call it deporations. They "expel" them like vomiting food. Or kicking out of school.

Advocates and attorneys trying to see those children have been physically prevented from doing so by hired contracted guards. Over eight thousand children this year have been "expelled" only to disappear into a virtual black hole where they are never heard from again.

Only 38 have been found.

Where are the rest?
 
2020-10-18 6:18:59 PM  

Chromium_One: emtwo: Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

Like hell it does.  It used to be an aspiration, needs to be again.


We've never lived up to our aspirations and we never will, I grant you that. But there is great benefit in striving for them anyway.

Perhaps I should have phrased that less declaratively.
Our democracy operates under the principle that all are should be and can be equal and that all are should be and can be equally held to account, those in power especially.
 
2020-10-18 6:19:19 PM  

make me some tea: If this is not addressed now, we will suffer many more Trumps.


I concur. One big reason we have Trump is that Nixon didn't pay the full price for his crimes.
 
2020-10-18 6:19:45 PM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.

Most wealthy people are above the law.
Haven't you noticed that yet?

Whos going to hold a trump accountable?
The Cops?
You?


how about WE THE PEOPLE?
 
2020-10-18 6:21:08 PM  

emtwo: Chromium_One: emtwo: Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

Like hell it does.  It used to be an aspiration, needs to be again.

We've never lived up to our aspirations and we never will, I grant you that. But there is great benefit in striving for them anyway.

Perhaps I should have phrased that less declaratively.
Our democracy operates under the principle that all are should be and can be equal and that all are should be and can be equally held to account, those in power especially.


When I am doing my best..it is then I know that the striving is what matters most.The not giving up. The reaching for something better. THAT is what the "American Dream" is about. Not the reality..but the hope and the striving.

and I hope that Trump in all his attempts to take that from us will fail.
 
2020-10-18 6:23:11 PM  
This is what Trump garbage are spreading around now.

While crying that lefties aren't civil to them.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:25:42 PM  

Kirablue42: JRoo: [cdn.theatlantic.com image 720x405]

They don't even put them in cages anymore. That would mean they would get a court hearing, even if they were three years old and needed a phone book to reach the bench. But they EXIST.

THIS YEAR they don't even have that. They are taken at the border and put in hotels and not even processed but 'expelled". They don't even call it deporations. They "expel" them like vomiting food. Or kicking out of school.

Advocates and attorneys trying to see those children have been physically prevented from doing so by hired contracted guards. Over eight thousand children this year have been "expelled" only to disappear into a virtual black hole where they are never heard from again.

Only 38 have been found.

Where are the rest?


Trafficking
I want those bastards ice, cbp, Barr, Trump at the Hague
 
2020-10-18 6:28:48 PM  

Kirablue42: emtwo: Chromium_One: emtwo: Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

Like hell it does.  It used to be an aspiration, needs to be again.

We've never lived up to our aspirations and we never will, I grant you that. But there is great benefit in striving for them anyway.

Perhaps I should have phrased that less declaratively.
Our democracy operates under the principle that all are should be and can be equal and that all are should be and can be equally held to account, those in power especially.

When I am doing my best..it is then I know that the striving is what matters most.The not giving up. The reaching for something better. THAT is what the "American Dream" is about. Not the reality..but the hope and the striving.

and I hope that Trump in all his attempts to take that from us will fail.


It's not Trump trying to take that from us. He's not smart enough to even grasp the concept, not competent enough to execute it, and quite frankly not interested enough to give a shiat in the first place. He's just a congenitally deficient blue-blooded aristocrat with no room in his personality for anything other than status symbols and adulation.

These are Putin's attempts to take that from us.
 
2020-10-18 6:29:11 PM  
Jill, FFS, stop reinforcing the stereotype of the out-of-touch ivory tower intellectual.

/That article and her bio screamed privilege.
 
2020-10-18 6:30:04 PM  
No, they shouldn't be prosecuted.  They should simply be put up against a wall; problem solved.
 
2020-10-18 6:30:43 PM  
Well thank goodness we got at least one Alternative Viewpoint Farker to make us all feel refreshed
 
2020-10-18 6:31:43 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:34:17 PM  

cman: DNRTFA

Yeah, no. Prosecute his ass. Send him to the clinker for the rest of his life.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 6:36:03 PM  
There's not enough fark you in the world for that idea. We're in this farking mess because we have refused to indict presidents for crimes. Trump has taken presidential immunity its logical conclusion in a single term. He is quite literally a parody of corruption. If we fail to prosecute him, specifically for political corruption, not tax fraud, you can hang your hat up on this democracy, because you've set a precedent for elected dictators. fark that article's author. Serioisly. You can tie a direct through line from Nixon to Reagan to W to Trump. This is what happens when you dont prosecute. They get increasingly brazen at deciding the constitution is a farking hindrance and shouldn't apply to them. The logical progression from an un-prosecuted Trump, is an outright dissolution of our representative republic. If "mob rule", as the republicans have come to call majority rule, is so dangerous, surely the answer is placing the rule of law into the hands of just a few individuals. I'm sure they'll be benevolent. Man, anyone who thinks we need that country healing crap, and just need to move on the preserve the integrity of the office or whatever nonsense-- I hope their genitals rot off because we dont need their offspring.

/rant
//dnrtfa. Was it good?
///I'm angry at what I assume he wrote.
 
2020-10-18 6:37:09 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Jill, FFS, stop reinforcing the stereotype of the out-of-touch ivory tower intellectual.

/That article and her bio screamed privilege.


WTF are you talking about, privilege? Did you even read the article?
 
2020-10-18 6:39:29 PM  

Mr. carrot: //dnrtfa. Was it good?
///I'm angry at what I assume he wrote.


She wrote that the crimes of the Trump family should be handled by the courts, not a special Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And somehow this is upsetting to people.

/not sure when "Historian" became "Political 'Expert'", complete with scare quotes
//yeah I got a bit of a geek crush on Jill Lepore
///fight me
 
2020-10-18 6:40:17 PM  
"The Trump crime family should not be prosecuted"

This is not at all what the article said. Bad subby.
 
2020-10-18 6:41:40 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Mr. carrot: //dnrtfa. Was it good?
///I'm angry at what I assume he wrote.

She wrote that the crimes of the Trump family should be handled by the courts, not a special Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And somehow this is upsetting to people.

/not sure when "Historian" became "Political 'Expert'", complete with scare quotes
//yeah I got a bit of a geek crush on Jill Lepore
///fight me


Meet me out back during recess. We're doing this.
 
2020-10-18 6:43:00 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.


Well it's a good thing the articles says nothing to the contrary.
 
2020-10-18 6:45:05 PM  

emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]


i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,
 
2020-10-18 6:47:05 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Mr. carrot: //dnrtfa. Was it good?
///I'm angry at what I assume he wrote.

She wrote that the crimes of the Trump family should be handled by the courts, not a special Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And somehow this is upsetting to people.

/not sure when "Historian" became "Political 'Expert'", complete with scare quotes
//yeah I got a bit of a geek crush on Jill Lepore
///fight me


She literally ends her piece by stating that she is arguing against "either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win."
 
2020-10-18 6:47:59 PM  
If you go high when they go low then they will keep going lower.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Until all your hair falls out.

We can't let any of them get away with anything.
 
2020-10-18 6:48:29 PM  

MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]

i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,


Trying alleged criminals in court for the crimes of which they are accused is not "weaponizing politics."
 
2020-10-18 6:49:27 PM  

ReaverZ: Exluddite: Every time Even when Republicans aren't areprosecuted, they answer with even more reprehensible behavior. Holding them accountable is the only answer. They have no shame.

Their response to the impeachment of Nixon has been to support the Republican President no matter what he has done.


I can't find the quote, but one of the Clinton impeachment leaders, Bob Livingston, said outright that it was payback for the near-impeachment of Nixon.
 
2020-10-18 6:49:55 PM  
To be fair, it is a bit of an academic question, at least as regards federal criminal prosecution. Trump is going to pardon himself and all his henchmen before leaving office.
 
2020-10-18 6:50:18 PM  
Why should I have to follow the law of the president doesn't?
 
2020-10-18 6:50:24 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

Well it's a good thing the articles says nothing to the contrary.


The article is an argument against "either criminal trials or truth tribunals, should Biden win," according to... *checks notes*... the article itself and the person who wrote it.
 
2020-10-18 6:52:36 PM  

Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.


Let justice be done.
 
2020-10-18 6:55:42 PM  

emtwo: MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]

i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,

Trying alleged criminals in court for the crimes of which they are accused is not "weaponizing politics."


Can you name a single president in the last 100 years who has not committed a crime in the view of some group? Or, ever, name one president who, in the view of the opposition, has not committed a single crime.

Yes, there are degrees. But the fact is every president commits crimes. Every single one of them.

Get the bastard for tax evasion or rape, go get him. I HATE Trump too.

God, I WANT to prosecute him for what he did as president . . What I want, and what I feel though, are not always the best options.
 
2020-10-18 6:57:38 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: Altimus Prime: I didn't RTFA, but there are arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their official duties, lest each administration become focused on revenge against their political adversaries.  So things like the Ukraine call, middle east F-35s for peace deals, interference within the CDC -- those all tie in some respect to policy, and you'd be opening many pandora's boxes if prosecution for such things became the norm.  They do that sort of thing in banana republics and cheap autocracies, where the ruling party must always weaken their predecessors to solidify their own hold on power.

Having said that, there are zero arguments to be made that Presidents shouldn't be prosecuted for conduct tied to their own personal enrichment or the enrichment of their families.  Very much the opposite.  We should expect our elected officials to be held to standards of propriety at least as high as those to which we are held.  And conduct by the family of the President not tied to any government function?  Zealous prosecution, always.

Let justice be done.


i agree with this as well. You got him for corruption, prosecute away. There is ample precedent for this.
 
2020-10-18 6:58:03 PM  

MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]

i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,


The electorate is at a disadvantage. With years of increasingly underfunded education, decades long stagnating wages coupled with inflation leading to insane work weeks with many working multiple jobs, and a popular news station that took people who wanted limited government and fiscal responsibility, and indoctrinated them into believing that their hard lives were because of the opposing political party, that immigrants are responsible for their suffering, that their very freedoms were in jeopardy if the democrats were allowed to carry out any legislation. That their hard earned tax dollars were being used to give easy lives to lazy criminals. And then told that all the other news sources were in on it and were lying to them. For 25 long years they were told this at an increasingly fevered pitch. Fear, hate, crime, oppression, that was what it meant for democrats to rule. An overworked undereducated group of people that barely have time to relax let alone follow the nuance of political gamesmanship, and you think this is their fault? Individually maybe, but the deck has been stacked against them. They want out of their shiat situation and they are expertly pointed at the wrong answers. They're fools, but they weren't the ones that weaponized politics. Politics was weaponized against them. And now we're all paying the price for it.
 
2020-10-18 7:01:24 PM  
You know, i reread my original statement,

It was way over broad and reflected a narrow view. My apologies. I did write it so I own it.

My statements should have been narrowly tailored to presidential policies.
 
2020-10-18 7:03:13 PM  
MarciusDecimus:

Yes, there are degrees. But the fact is every president commits crimes. Every single one of them.

And if they were prosecuted for the crimes they committed while hiding behind the office of the Presidency then maybe the people elected to that office would stop abusing the position so publicly and with zero concern for the consequences of their actions for everyone else.
 
2020-10-18 7:05:56 PM  

Murkanen: MarciusDecimus:

Yes, there are degrees. But the fact is every president commits crimes. Every single one of them.

And if they were prosecuted for the crimes they committed while hiding behind the office of the Presidency then maybe the people elected to that office would stop abusing the position so publicly and with zero concern for the consequences of their actions for everyone else.


It's almost like we punish for crimes as a deterrent.
 
2020-10-18 7:06:56 PM  
Fark that.

Accused
Tried
Prosecuted
Convicted
Assets Seized
Executed

In that order.
 
2020-10-18 7:07:02 PM  

MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: emtwo: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Our democracy operates under the principle that all are equal and that all are equally held to account, those in power especially.

There is no reason to believe that holding Trump to account for crimes would lead all future administrations to fear prosecution, except in instances where they acted criminally and such fear is warranted.

There is no reason to believe that a peaceful transition of power would be impossible even in the case that an outgoing admin fears prosecution.

"By electing a leader we gave them absolution," is perhaps the single most anti-democratic and outright anti-American thing I've read on Fark in a long time.

In short, your opinion is nothing but a bunch of useless platitudes with no basis in reality, strung together to create the flimsiest pretense of a cogent thought. At that, it fails miserably.

[Fark user image 425x318]

i could be wrong. I have never claimed to posses the unassailable knowledge of what is absolutely right.

Respectfully, i just  think elecrorates are equally to blame and when we weaponize politics it never ends well.

We will have to see.
,

Trying alleged criminals in court for the crimes of which they are accused is not "weaponizing politics."

Can you name a single president in the last 100 years who has not committed a crime in the view of some group? Or, ever, name one president who, in the view of the opposition, has not committed a single crime.

Yes, there are degrees. But the fact is every president commits crimes. Every single one of them.

Get the bastard for tax evasion or rape, go get him. I HATE Trump too.

Go ...


Whataboutism as a fundamental political philosophy? No thanks.

The reason why every sitting president is not tried for crimes, despite every president being accused of such, is that there typically isn't sufficient evidence to support a charge, not because of some lofty concern for the state of democracy based on a bunch of speculative platitudes.

Yes, we should be concerned if administrations start prosecuting previous administrations on political grounds and flimsy pretexts. But this is not that.
 
2020-10-18 7:08:10 PM  
I'll just leave this here
i.imgur.comView Full Size

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 7:24:37 PM  

bostonguy: Altimus Prime: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

My one sad about Kamala as VP is that we won't have Kamala as AG.  She'd have been an AG for the ages.

Question: Is there anything that prevents the VP also serving as AG?


We don't need her when we've got Preet Bharara ready to go on the sideline bench.

Put him in a AG and tell him to leave no stone unturned.  He's got the ethics and the motivation to take care of the rest, and do it above board.
 
2020-10-18 7:25:01 PM  

Epoch_Zero: I'll just leave this here
[i.imgur.com image 679x394]
[i.imgur.com image 850x531]


So Trump has almost twice what all the others have in criminal indictments.
Seems low
 
2020-10-18 7:37:42 PM  
I mean the best way to run a society is to not prosecute your leaders when they leave office, because they didn't commit any crimes.
Since that's not an option, we have to go with the next best way.

Certainly the worst way to run a society is to not prosecute your leaders when they leave office even though they did commit crimes.
 
2020-10-18 7:41:32 PM  

Ambivalence: The only lesson to be learned by letting trump and criminal republicans off the hook is that the law doesn't apply to the powerful.


This is why they shouldn't have let Nixon off the hook. It allowed Ford, Reagan, and everyone else to commit one crime after another and let Bill Barr get them off the hook.
 
2020-10-18 7:42:45 PM  

not enough beer: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

[Fark user image image 425x267]

I prefer this gentleman.


Seconded. Thirded.
Googol'ed.
 
2020-10-18 8:19:11 PM  

MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.


Trump does not need to approve the transfer of power. He does need to die in prison as a lesson to future ambitious crooks.
 
2020-10-18 8:23:40 PM  

Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

No man is above the law.


That's the theory, any way. I think we all know better.
 
2020-10-18 8:24:35 PM  

emtwo: She literally ends her piece by stating that she is arguing against "either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win."


That's some nifty selective quoting there.
 
2020-10-18 8:27:59 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Mr. carrot: //dnrtfa. Was it good?
///I'm angry at what I assume he wrote.

She wrote that the crimes of the Trump family should be handled by the courts, not a special Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And somehow this is upsetting to people.

/not sure when "Historian" became "Political 'Expert'", complete with scare quotes
//yeah I got a bit of a geek crush on Jill Lepore
///fight me


There needs to be an investigation so that when they write legislation that will end up being called the "Trump Statutes," they can focus on what will be in the Trump Statutes. Merely nailing them for individual crimes defined by current laws won't point out anything.
 
2020-10-18 8:28:20 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: emtwo: She literally ends her piece by stating that she is arguing against "either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win."

That's some nifty selective quoting there.


Try this one on for size:

But the Trump administration is not Nazi Germany, nor is it a nation defeated in war. Its wrongdoing - a litany that includes corruption, fomenting insurrection, separating parents and children at the border, and violently suppressing political dissent - should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances, tried in ordinary courts.

I bolded the pertinent parts for you, in case you have difficulty following along, or don't understand antecedents or something.
 
2020-10-18 8:32:48 PM  

mofa: There needs to be an investigation so that when they write legislation that will end up being called the "Trump Statutes," they can focus on what will be in the Trump Statutes.


That's an idea.
 
2020-10-18 8:38:13 PM  

emtwo: Zulu_as_Kono: Xai: If trump has broken laws then he should be prosecuted.

Well it's a good thing the articles says nothing to the contrary.

The article is an argument against "either criminal trials or truth tribunals, should Biden win," according to... *checks notes*... the article itself and the person who wrote it.


Just because you say the same thing twice doesn't make it true.
 
2020-10-18 8:43:45 PM  

Malenfant: MarciusDecimus: He is not wrong.

Our republic operated  under the notion you had honorable people. Yes, they were always questionably honorable.

We cannot ever hope to have a peaceful transfer of power if the outgoing group fears  prosecution.

By electing a leader we gave them absolution;. I hate trump  but i will not sink the republic for him.

The bastard walks.

Trump does not need to approve the transfer of power. He does need to die in prison as a lesson to future ambitious crooks.


I'm also good with him being tried, convicted, and executed for treason.
 
2020-10-18 8:46:32 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Now including criminal charges against former presidents!
 
2020-10-18 8:57:46 PM  
Worrying that the other side will retaliate with unjustified prosecutions and that such actions will lead to the downfall of the US don't seem to understand that allowing people to get away with breaking the law is just as damaging, if not more damaging, to the nation, because the unprosecuted usurper will show future usurpers they are free and clear to abuse their opponents with even less concern for consequences than sham prosecutions, which still have to worry about the next set of prosecutions.

The sin has already been committed. You either allow that sin to be repeated, or you do not and RISK a new, different, sin. 

It's a hypothetical problem when you have an actual one to deal with.
 
2020-10-18 9:11:17 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: emtwo: She literally ends her piece by stating that she is arguing against "either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win."

That's some nifty selective quoting there.


Directly quoting the conclusion of her piece is too "selective" for you?

[eyeroll.gif]
 
2020-10-18 9:12:37 PM  
If the past few decades of criminal presidents seeing no consequences didn't tell you he was going to get away, the reaction of liberals when he got covid should have made you realize they're going to rehabilitate him like Reagan and the Bushes.
 
2020-10-18 9:15:07 PM  

Ishkur: Badmoodman: I'll trust Atty General Sally Yates.

And Second Atty General Preet Bharara.

/cuz you're gonna need more than one


he's the effective version of ken Starr. He's the special prosecutor or whatever, full time leading the Rico takedown. Paperwork is probably started.
 
2020-10-18 9:20:33 PM  

Target Builder: Come January I expect we'll be hearing a LOT of  "we need to move past partisan politics and Heal As A Nation"


Ok, we'll prosecute everyone who broke the law without worrying about their political affiliation.

It is the only way to heal the nation.

/Funny, all these guys being indicted are Republicans.
 
2020-10-18 9:52:24 PM  
So... it begins.

Making the case for sweeping Trumps crimes under a rug in the name of healing and national unity and moving forward and all that other trite, untrue and predictable crap.

They let Nixon slide.
They let Reagan slide.
They let HW slide.
They let W slide.

And now the powers that be who dictate the parameters of the national debate are trying to sweep Trump's crimes under the rug.

I could say a lot of things here but I will just note that doing that this time would be a big mistake.
 
2020-10-18 10:05:18 PM  
Allow me to rebut.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-18 10:08:28 PM  
He's probably lost track of all the favors he bought over the years - and somebody as crudely transactional as Trump doesn't cut a check for a politician unless he's assured of getting something in return.

So go ahead. Haul him in. Discovery will be a farking blast.

Let Preet Bharara handle it. He has unfinished business in New York.
 
2020-10-18 10:09:03 PM  

neongoats: This is what Trump garbage are spreading around now.

While crying that lefties aren't civil to them.

[Fark user image 253x137]


Fark user imageView Full Size


What party is torturing innocent little girls again?
 
2020-10-18 10:20:36 PM  

Kirablue42: neongoats: This is what Trump garbage are spreading around now.

While crying that lefties aren't civil to them.

[Fark user image 253x137]

[Fark user image 850x571]

What party is torturing innocent little girls again?


They took her shoe laces because that is what you do when you arrest an adult.  They didn't have a protocol for arresting a child so they went with what they knew.
 
2020-10-18 10:34:13 PM  

INTERTRON: GrizzlyPouch: Trump is accused of being compromised and using his office for personal enrichment, but it's all speculation.

According to who?  You?  lol


Do you have a link to something showing any evidence of Trump using his position for financial gain?  not speculation, actual evidence.

According to the link I posted from the NYT, Burisma sought out individuals with political influence that they could give money to for friendlier treatment.  That's not my words it's the New York Times'

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us​/​politics/biden-son-ukraine.html?smid=n​ytcore-ios-share

And then they hired Hunter Biden and paid him 500k per year for a job he didn't have to show up for (he doesn't even speak Ukrainian)

And THEN Joe Biden went on tv and said I told them to fire that prosecutor (the one that was investigating Burisma) or you aren't getting your billion dollars.

I mean that's pretty bad.  Don't you think?

Especially when you consider Trump got impeached for saying on a phone call, hey do you think you could look into this?
 
2020-10-18 10:50:00 PM  

Sandelaphon: If the past few decades of criminal presidents seeing no consequences didn't tell you he was going to get away, the reaction of liberals when he got covid should have made you realize they're going to rehabilitate him like Reagan and the Bushes.


They let Dubya get away with war crimes. Nothing is going to happen to Trump. He'll spend the rest of his days in comfort at his Scottish golf club.
 
2020-10-18 10:51:49 PM  

Zulu_as_Kono: Zulu_as_Kono: emtwo: She literally ends her piece by stating that she is arguing against "either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win."

That's some nifty selective quoting there.

Try this one on for size:

But the Trump administration is not Nazi Germany, nor is it a nation defeated in war. Its wrongdoing - a litany that includes corruption, fomenting insurrection, separating parents and children at the border, and violently suppressing political dissent - should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances, tried in ordinary courts.

I bolded the pertinent parts for you, in case you have difficulty following along, or don't understand antecedents or something.


Wikipedia would handle that statement this way:

should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances(which?), tried in ordinary courts.

Equivocation doesn't strengthen an argument, but it does make holding the opinion writer to their opinion more difficult. Okay, she didn't necessarily say NO court trial in EVERY instance. She just laid out a multi-paragraph argument about how you can't have truth and justice at the same time and it's more important that we take stock of ourselves than hold anyone accountable.

You're admiring obfuscation for making it easier for you to ignore the bits of the article that seem dumb. Nice of the author to do that for you.
 
2020-10-18 11:48:12 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: Do you have a link to something showing any evidence of Trump using his position for financial gain?


Literally every time he golfs.
 
2020-10-19 12:15:14 AM  

emtwo: rga184: I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.

I would highly suggest that you begin preparing to lose your shiat.

[Fark user image image 425x318]


Oh, I'm not that optimistic.  I give it 60/40 Biden lets him walk to heal the nation.

Although his answer at the town hall is hopeful.  He might just pick AG based on who didn't want to go after Trump et al.
 
2020-10-19 12:52:19 AM  

rga184: emtwo: rga184: I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.

I would highly suggest that you begin preparing to lose your shiat.

[Fark user image image 425x318]

Oh, I'm not that optimistic.  I give it 60/40 Biden lets him walk to heal the nation.

Although his answer at the town hall is hopeful.  He might just pick AG based on who didn't want to go after Trump et al.


There's the matter of indicting or not but there is also the matter of how much he may owe in taxes.  I think the issue may be, pay your f$cking taxes or we indict.

Discretion in arbitrary criminal charges if fine and dandy (to heal the nation) but you can't let him get away with stealing money from the country.

/and Trump won't have the money to pay
 
2020-10-19 10:36:04 AM  
FTA: But the Trump administration is not Nazi Germany, nor is it a nation defeated in war. Its wrongdoing - a litany that includes corruption, fomenting insurrection, separating parents and children at the border, and violently suppressing political dissent - should be investigated by journalists, chronicled by historians and, in some instances, tried in ordinary courts.
[...]
None of the conditions of a truth and reconciliation commission apply to Trump's four years in the White House.
[...]
American historian Kevin Baker wrote in the New Republic two years ago. "Americans must, at some point, decide on which truths we still find self-evident. If anyone has a better suggestion than truth and reconciliation, have at it." That better suggestion is the ordinary working of justice, the strengthening of democratic institutions and the writing of history, over time, through the study of carefully preserved records.

...which seems pretty much the opposite of what Subby's headline suggests.

FTA: In the end, the strongest argument against either criminal trials or a truth tribunal, should Biden win, is that it would let the Democratic Party and every other institution that is not the Republican Party off the hook for driving the nation into a flaming cauldron.

Yes, there's an awful lot that the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, FaceBook, Twitter, and so on could have done. (As an aside, Drew deserves at least small kudos for introducing a custom Fark logo for Presidential tweets. It's not a lot, but it's something.) Contrariwise, I'm not seeing much more that the Democratic Party could have done since President Trump's inauguration.
 
2020-10-19 11:25:00 AM  

mrshowrules: rga184: emtwo: rga184: I'd Biden doesn't go after him in the name of "healing the nation so we can move forward and come together" bullshiat, I swear to god I will lose my shiat.

I would highly suggest that you begin preparing to lose your shiat.

[Fark user image image 425x318]

Oh, I'm not that optimistic.  I give it 60/40 Biden lets him walk to heal the nation.

Although his answer at the town hall is hopeful.  He might just pick AG based on who didn't want to go after Trump et al.

There's the matter of indicting or not but there is also the matter of how much he may owe in taxes.  I think the issue may be, pay your f$cking taxes or we indict.

Discretion in arbitrary criminal charges if fine and dandy (to heal the nation) but you can't let him get away with stealing money from the country.

/and Trump won't have the money to pay


The scandal there is that so much of what Trump did was legalized sleaze - and whatever may have crossed a line, well, that's why he's had such a keen interest in donating to state attorneys general - so that they look the other way.

Many people who draw water in Washington quietly enjoy the tax code status quo that Trump exploits so loudly.
 
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