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(AL.com)   Soldier who drove Sherman tank through Dachau concentration camp gate in WWII, liberating its inmates, passes. "And, immediately glancing over at the bodies stacked like cord wood, this young 19-year-old just about lost it"   (al.com) divider line
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6559 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 17 Oct 2020 at 2:17 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-16 10:16:07 PM  
Feezel, a technical sergeant for the 23rd tank battalion of the 12th Armored Division, drove a Sherman tank during the war.
An emaciated inmate approached the tank after he drove into the camp, he said.
"Looked like a skeleton was walking towards me," Feezel said. "He was finally too exhausted and he just sat down."
Feezel emphasized that he was one of many soldiers who played a role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.
"I often reckon with the very fact that I was such a small pebble in a large stream of thousands and thousands of men who went to fight this war," he said.
 
2020-10-16 10:31:17 PM  
There are places in history to have been......

Damn
 
2020-10-17 12:43:13 AM  
I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.
 
2020-10-17 1:00:12 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.


Lets give him his 1911 just to make it an unfair fight
 
2020-10-17 2:20:17 AM  
Dies. Not "passes".
 
2020-10-17 2:26:01 AM  
God, how painful these men's memories must be.

I oppose all war, but I  am not so arrogant that I cannot recognize that Feezel, like so many others who were little more than boys when pitched into the maelstrom of WWII, is a true hero.
 
2020-10-17 2:26:16 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.


Nope. Given I know quite a few of WWII vets from Battle of Bulge, including my Dad (Forward Observer at the Battle of the Bulge) . While they're proudly American. As a group they're racists as fark, especially the Alabama ones. They'd have been on Hitler's side if Germany and Japan didn't double tag the Allies. And those still alive are most likely proud boy Trumpers.

It was only in his latter years that Dad stopped the racism about Jews and had a Jewish Friend from his 'war vet group'.
Still when Dad died...he had a cabinet full of George Wallace and "Thunderbolt" newspapers. He was a WWII vet and more politically aligned with "Proud Boys" than any democratic (Except George Wallace)

This wasn't suprising....Even Vonnegut "Slaughter House Five" there's a bit there about the American "Nazi" party and how the US should be on Hitler's side. Anyone from that age and time knows it was really a balance who we would side for. The Japanese attack pretty much sealed that deal for the US for the Allies.
 
2020-10-17 2:26:34 AM  
The only good nazi is a dead nazi. Was true in 1933 still true in 2020 but somehow most countries have forgotten that.

There should be a worldwide kill-a-nazi day where we hunt them down like the rats they are and put them 6 feet under. After a couple of years, they would be gone forever... not making pro-Trump, pro-Putin, pro-Erdogan, pro-Xi protests.
 
2020-10-17 2:29:23 AM  
I think of the Inquisition, the Cherokee Removal, Slavery, the Holocaust, of the follower's of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Pol Pot and I wonder what is wrong with humanity? Why are we capable of such inhuman, ungodly, sadistic, and cruel acts?
 
2020-10-17 2:32:59 AM  

Bruscar: God, how painful these men's memories must be.



adam carolla podcast just a week or so ago, had a WWII veteran on who helped liberate Dachau:

https://adamcarolla.com/frank-sisson/​

75 years on, the soldier choked up at recounting the memory of what he saw.  and to give away a tidbit that gave me goosebumps and make my hair stand on end, well after the war he had a relative do some geneology / family tree shiat, and it turns out he had relatives in Europe that were eventually sent to Dachau;  18-19 yr old Frank Sisson didn't know it at the time, but there is a chance he helped liberate distant relatives (assuming they hadn't fallen prey to the Nazis of course).
 
2020-10-17 2:37:49 AM  

Bruscar: I think of the Inquisition, the Cherokee Removal, Slavery, the Holocaust, of the follower's of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Pol Pot and I wonder what is wrong with humanity? Why are we capable of such inhuman, ungodly, sadistic, and cruel acts?


And Twitter. Don't forget Twitter.
 
2020-10-17 2:38:07 AM  

Bruscar: I think of the Inquisition, the Cherokee Removal, Slavery, the Holocaust, of the follower's of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Pol Pot and I wonder what is wrong with humanity? Why are we capable of such inhuman, ungodly, sadistic, and cruel acts?


Too much fear, weak super egos, and not enough shroom tea.
 
2020-10-17 2:48:08 AM  

optikeye: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

Nope. Given I know quite a few of WWII vets from Battle of Bulge, including my Dad (Forward Observer at the Battle of the Bulge) . While they're proudly American. As a group they're racists as fark, especially the Alabama ones. They'd have been on Hitler's side if Germany and Japan didn't double tag the Allies. And those still alive are most likely proud boy Trumpers.

It was only in his latter years that Dad stopped the racism about Jews and had a Jewish Friend from his 'war vet group'.
Still when Dad died...he had a cabinet full of George Wallace and "Thunderbolt" newspapers. He was a WWII vet and more politically aligned with "Proud Boys" than any democratic (Except George Wallace)

This wasn't suprising....Even Vonnegut "Slaughter House Five" there's a bit there about the American "Nazi" party and how the US should be on Hitler's side. Anyone from that age and time knows it was really a balance who we would side for. The Japanese attack pretty much sealed that deal for the US for the Allies.


No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.
 
2020-10-17 2:48:33 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.


What a weird direction to take this.
 
2020-10-17 2:51:04 AM  

Kirablue42: Feezel, a technical sergeant for the 23rd tank battalion of the 12th Armored Division, drove a Sherman tank during the war.
An emaciated inmate approached the tank after he drove into the camp, he said.
"Looked like a skeleton was walking towards me," Feezel said. "He was finally too exhausted and he just sat down."
Feezel emphasized that he was one of many soldiers who played a role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.
"I often reckon with the very fact that I was such a small pebble in a large stream of thousands and thousands of men who went to fight this war," he said.


That's a real hero mentality, one pebble of thousands. Some service members today slap on the hero tag just for enlisting or doing a tour.

I don't mean to minimize their service, but to ground their mindset.
 
2020-10-17 2:55:05 AM  
I made the mistake of asking my great uncle about concentration camps, I had just been to DC and been to the holocaust museum. My grandfather told me he took part in the liberation and documentation, he had always proudly told us about d day and other battles.

His eyes welled up he choked up and he said was "it was evil, pure evil, I still dream about it, I can still smell and taste the death, I wish we could have done more" then he walked away.  I was told later he had to go through "therapy" and it was why he ended up leaving the military.  Apparently everyone knew not to ask him about it
 
2020-10-17 2:58:41 AM  
"Suckers. Losers."

A vote for T is a vote against this hero.
 
2020-10-17 2:58:44 AM  

Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.


What the fark!!

I knew quite a lot of Alabama Battle of the Bulge Veterans. I and my SO attended their dinners for years and years...and yup. While WWII vets are noble brave etc. They where ...as a group...racist as fark. And could have tilted to either side at the start of WWII.

Heck when my Father finally met a Jewish veteran...(when my father was in his late 70's).
They became friends...very good friends (not in that way) ...but  our family gave his flag at the funeral to his friend.

That's reality. WWII vets where mostly racist bigots (AT THE TIME)  that would have been Nazis if not for the fact Germany attacked England and we had a 'contract' with England at the time.
 
2020-10-17 2:59:57 AM  

trappedspirit: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

What a weird direction to take this.


Yeah TOTALLY NOTHING IN COMMON with those groups.

Jewswillnotreplaceus.gif
 
2020-10-17 3:02:26 AM  
I'm just patting the guy on the back for having the balls to ram through the barricades. Zerg rushes are pretty merciless on the guys in front.
 
2020-10-17 3:05:55 AM  
Fake News.I've been to Dachau twice, and the gate's still there.

CSB: having grown up in Germany (in the 70s, basically), we were confronted with our history on a daily basis, which is a good thing. Did a field trip to Bergen Belsen CC in 5th or 6th grade.
While on my second stint in the US, Mrs Shirley and I went to the old country on vacation. Munich, Bavaria, Oktoberfest, the Alps...and Dachau. After having been taught pretty much everything about WWII and the Holocaust in school back in the day, Dachau was a gut punch. Holy shiat. That was something else.
I'd be in favor, and I would gladly contribute to it, to send US high school kids on a field trip to Dachau or Auschwitz. It's something kids need to experience in person, not in textbooks or videos. (end of "cool" story, brah)
 
2020-10-17 3:07:58 AM  

Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.


And no...Even Charles Lindbergh...the Darling of Mainstream America. Was a Nazi supporter and white supremist and anti Jew. And a spokesman for "America First" which was basically proud boys of the late 1930s.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos​/​category/history/charles-lindbergh-and​-the-rise-of-1940s-nazi_1/


Yes...America and WWII vets are very exceptional....but don't fool yourself that it couldn't have titled either way.
Pearl Harbor Titled the scales for America there to side with the British. And we still had a lot of Vets with distaste for Germany from WWI.
 
2020-10-17 3:16:30 AM  

Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question.


Do you even know History?

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war​/​articles/great-debate
 
2020-10-17 3:21:24 AM  

optikeye: Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.

What the fark!!

I knew quite a lot of Alabama Battle of the Bulge Veterans. I and my SO attended their dinners for years and years...and yup. While WWII vets are noble brave etc. They where ...as a group...racist as fark. And could have tilted to either side at the start of WWII.

Heck when my Father finally met a Jewish veteran...(when my father was in his late 70's).
They became friends...very good friends (not in that way) ...but  our family gave his flag at the funeral to his friend.

That's reality. WWII vets where mostly racist bigots (AT THE TIME)  that would have been Nazis if not for the fact Germany attacked England and we had a 'contract' with England at the time.


EVERYONE was racist as fark back then by today's standards. The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

this was just how things were back then. not a defence or an attack on that generation, they were products of their institutions and upbringing like everyone else, and such thinking wasnt problematic yet.
 
2020-10-17 3:24:30 AM  

SurelyShirley: Fake News.I've been to Dachau twice, and the gate's still there.

CSB: having grown up in Germany (in the 70s, basically), we were confronted with our history on a daily basis, which is a good thing. Did a field trip to Bergen Belsen CC in 5th or 6th grade.
While on my second stint in the US, Mrs Shirley and I went to the old country on vacation. Munich, Bavaria, Oktoberfest, the Alps...and Dachau. After having been taught pretty much everything about WWII and the Holocaust in school back in the day, Dachau was a gut punch. Holy shiat. That was something else.
I'd be in favor, and I would gladly contribute to it, to send US high school kids on a field trip to Dachau or Auschwitz. It's something kids need to experience in person, not in textbooks or videos. (end of "cool" story, brah)


you know that the camps are maintained and have been in places restored right? Dachau and Auschwitz etc woul've all fallen apart decades ago.

i could well imagine the gate was broken down and then "repaired" at some point.
 
2020-10-17 3:24:53 AM  

Father_Jack: The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.


Yup...ask the Koreans or Chinese about how they think about the Japanese.
 
2020-10-17 3:28:04 AM  

Father_Jack: optikeye: Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.

What the fark!!

I knew quite a lot of Alabama Battle of the Bulge Veterans. I and my SO attended their dinners for years and years...and yup. While WWII vets are noble brave etc. They where ...as a group...racist as fark. And could have tilted to either side at the start of WWII.

Heck when my Father finally met a Jewish veteran...(when my father was in his late 70's).
They became friends...very good friends (not in that way) ...but  our family gave his flag at the funeral to his friend.

That's reality. WWII vets where mostly racist bigots (AT THE TIME)  that would have been Nazis if not for the fact Germany attacked England and we had a 'contract' with England at the time.

EVERYONE was racist as fark back then by today's standards. The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

this was just how things were back then. not a defence or an attack on that generation, they were products of their institutions and upbringing like everyone else, and such thinking wasnt problematic yet.


doesn't change the fact that the US was as on-the-fence as you can get about that war.

For all the ribbing yanks give to countries like Switzerland and Sweden about their involvement, it was really the US that was most dangerous.
 
2020-10-17 3:28:38 AM  

Bruscar: I think of the Inquisition, the Cherokee Removal, Slavery, the Holocaust, of the follower's of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Pol Pot and I wonder what is wrong with humanity? Why are we capable of such inhuman, ungodly, sadistic, and cruel acts?


Because at our core, we're descended from tribal, territorial, predatory primates who survived by a combination of intelligence, luck and sheer high-octane brutality, and unless we watch ourselves diligently and are willing to put enough effort into it, it's ludicrously easy for us to fall under the control of the instincts still embedded within us.

Tl;dr:  because we're awful unless we work at not being awful. Unfortunately we're lazy and stupid, too.
 
2020-10-17 3:30:03 AM  

Father_Jack: optikeye: Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.

What the fark!!

I knew quite a lot of Alabama Battle of the Bulge Veterans. I and my SO attended their dinners for years and years...and yup. While WWII vets are noble brave etc. They where ...as a group...racist as fark. And could have tilted to either side at the start of WWII.

Heck when my Father finally met a Jewish veteran...(when my father was in his late 70's).
They became friends...very good friends (not in that way) ...but  our family gave his flag at the funeral to his friend.

That's reality. WWII vets where mostly racist bigots (AT THE TIME)  that would have been Nazis if not for the fact Germany attacked England and we had a 'contract' with England at the time.

EVERYONE was racist as fark back then by today's standards. The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

this was just how things were back then. not a defence or an attack on that generation, they were products of their institutions and upbringing like everyone else, and such thinking wasnt problematic yet.


We (The USA) didn't get involved for some noble purpose or standing up for Jews, human rights.. etc.
But for the most USAian purpose ever.

Protecting Real Estate.
 
2020-10-17 3:32:53 AM  
I see fark commenters are just as literate as usual.

Do tell us subby, what a 'solidar' is?
 
2020-10-17 3:36:42 AM  

Commander Lysdexic: I see fark commenters are just as literate as usual.

Do tell us subby, what a 'solidar' is?


Username checks out..

/ Sorry :)
 
2020-10-17 3:40:50 AM  
My Dad was good friends with John Sledge. The Author of "With the Old Breed" Which Tom Hanks used as a template about WWII war in the pacific.

Dad was Battle of the Bulge...in the Snow...And Dr. Sledge was in the Pacific. And the conversations sometimes had 'well at least your toes didn't freeze off'.

Dr. Sledge was one of the most kind persons I've ever known. I was a child at the time, friends with his kids and he was such a 'Mister Rodgers" person. He liked birds and was a Professor at a University near here...
 
2020-10-17 3:45:29 AM  

optikeye: John Sledge.


Correction. That was his son. It was Eugene Sledge if anyone is bothering to google about this.
 
2020-10-17 4:06:36 AM  
Captain Beefheart - Dachau Blues
Youtube duUxD2LkYb0
 
2020-10-17 4:16:09 AM  
What struck me most about Dachau was the differences between the memorial/buildings erected by each of the religions: 
The Protestants put up a simple building and the overall impression of the words and photos was regret.  Deep regret and sorrow.
The Jewish monument was incredibly somber, subdued, and moving.  It was painful to walk into it.  
The Catholics version was a commercial for how awesome Jesus is and how you should join the church.  It was disgusting.  

/family members were killed at Dachau
 
2020-10-17 4:21:39 AM  

WillofJ2: I made the mistake of asking my great uncle about concentration camps, I had just been to DC and been to the holocaust museum. My grandfather told me he took part in the liberation and documentation, he had always proudly told us about d day and other battles.

His eyes welled up he choked up and he said was "it was evil, pure evil, I still dream about it, I can still smell and taste the death, I wish we could have done more" then he walked away.  I was told later he had to go through "therapy" and it was why he ended up leaving the military.  Apparently everyone knew not to ask him about it


Your grandfather is the epitome of what a hero is. Those men and women...their courage is what I most admire in humanity.
 
2020-10-17 4:34:08 AM  

SurelyShirley: Fake News.I've been to Dachau twice, and the gate's still there.

CSB: having grown up in Germany (in the 70s, basically), we were confronted with our history on a daily basis, which is a good thing. Did a field trip to Bergen Belsen CC in 5th or 6th grade.
While on my second stint in the US, Mrs Shirley and I went to the old country on vacation. Munich, Bavaria, Oktoberfest, the Alps...and Dachau. After having been taught pretty much everything about WWII and the Holocaust in school back in the day, Dachau was a gut punch. Holy shiat. That was something else.
I'd be in favor, and I would gladly contribute to it, to send US high school kids on a field trip to Dachau or Auschwitz. It's something kids need to experience in person, not in textbooks or videos. (end of "cool" story, brah)


When me and the missus were in Berlin, we spent 2.5 days at the SS museum doing research, and another at the Holocaust musuem. We drank a lot each night afterwords, as it frayed the nerves reading everything.

/also had a flask while at said museum.
//well, I'm a farker
///threes
 
2020-10-17 4:43:29 AM  

optikeye: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

Nope. Given I know quite a few of WWII vets from Battle of Bulge, including my Dad (Forward Observer at the Battle of the Bulge) . While they're proudly American. As a group they're racists as fark, especially the Alabama ones. They'd have been on Hitler's side if Germany and Japan didn't double tag the Allies. And those still alive are most likely proud boy Trumpers.

It was only in his latter years that Dad stopped the racism about Jews and had a Jewish Friend from his 'war vet group'.
Still when Dad died...he had a cabinet full of George Wallace and "Thunderbolt" newspapers. He was a WWII vet and more politically aligned with "Proud Boys" than any democratic (Except George Wallace)

This wasn't suprising....Even Vonnegut "Slaughter House Five" there's a bit there about the American "Nazi" party and how the US should be on Hitler's side. Anyone from that age and time knows it was really a balance who we would side for. The Japanese attack pretty much sealed that deal for the US for the Allies.


There has been for sometime a tendency to elevate every member of the "Greatest Generation" to near-sainthood. I grew up with them for parents, teachers, cadet instructors and a couple of times, coworkers. They are not saints, they are just people, and many times the last place they wanted to be was in the middle of a war. My own father could be profoundly bigotted when it came to Jewish people, although eventually he realized how stupid he sounded. My mother, who was in the Resistance and later the French armed forces, was under no illusions about the character of many Allied servicemen.
 
2020-10-17 4:52:33 AM  

optikeye: Father_Jack: The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

Yup...ask the Koreans or Chinese about how they think about the Japanese.


I can think of 731 reasons why they might be bitter...
 
2020-10-17 4:58:43 AM  

Red Shirt Blues: optikeye: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

Nope. Given I know quite a few of WWII vets from Battle of Bulge, including my Dad (Forward Observer at the Battle of the Bulge) . While they're proudly American. As a group they're racists as fark, especially the Alabama ones. They'd have been on Hitler's side if Germany and Japan didn't double tag the Allies. And those still alive are most likely proud boy Trumpers.

It was only in his latter years that Dad stopped the racism about Jews and had a Jewish Friend from his 'war vet group'.
Still when Dad died...he had a cabinet full of George Wallace and "Thunderbolt" newspapers. He was a WWII vet and more politically aligned with "Proud Boys" than any democratic (Except George Wallace)

This wasn't suprising....Even Vonnegut "Slaughter House Five" there's a bit there about the American "Nazi" party and how the US should be on Hitler's side. Anyone from that age and time knows it was really a balance who we would side for. The Japanese attack pretty much sealed that deal for the US for the Allies.

No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.


Whoa there, that's a lot of fear and rage for a reaction to what is, basically, a thought experiemnt.

Want to tell us where that's coming from buddy?  It's okay to share.

Here's what we know, btw, as I did want to expand upon that thought experiment:
* It is true that the US did not officially enter WW2 until 7 Dec 1941.
* That said, there were a few (literally only 3 or 4 I know of) German attacks directed at US ships before that; not enough to piss us off, though, it seems.
* Up until that day in '41, there was an actual US Nazi party (Bunds, previously 'Friends of New Germany').

And there's more, but I'm not here to give a history lesson (and I'm sure there are plenty of factors I might not be aware of); I'm here to a)poke the bear in you just a little bit, and b) pontificate.

It's more likely, in my mind, that without the Japanese attack, the US would have continued to hum and haw - if the German pokes persisted, we may have joined in later.  If they did not, or via some diplomacy here and there, we might well have decided 'Don't touch us, we won't touch you,' though eventually Germany would break that agreement (unless someone less brain-syphilis-y replaced Hitler).

One wonders, would we be the 'world cop' we are today if we had attempted to stay neutral a bit longer?  Given that the Soviet Untion was an 'Allied' country, would our relationship have been different - either worse (since we wouldn't have had even that tenuous relationship) or better (since we weren't riding that post-war boner)?

Would we have developed the nuclear arsenal that we did?

All interesting questions, all in the past as well.  This is why I don't understand the...what came off as extreme and irrational, almost frothy fear and anger from your response.

I have my theories, of course, but don't want to tip the scales.

So, again - everything okay there pal?
 
2020-10-17 5:04:18 AM  

Mad Canadian: optikeye: Father_Jack: The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

Yup...ask the Koreans or Chinese about how they think about the Japanese.

I can think of 731 reasons why they might be bitter...


Those were just lies pushed by the allies to make Japan the bad guy in WWII. Japan was a great liberator who wanted to elevate Asians above the white colonizers. Sure they killed and raped a bunch of people, performed cruel experiments on living subjects, and tried to erase the native culture wherever they went, but that was like justified or something. Japanese TV told me so.
 
2020-10-17 5:08:03 AM  
As an additional note, blind "we're the best and were always the best and will always be the best" patriotism is one of the worst things for any country.

If we don't acknowledge our problems we cannot fix them; naked emperors and all.

Not sure if that's part of the reaction we're discussing above, but it such is the more common explanation these days.  Truly, I would be happier if it was rooted in something else.

In either case, we weren't the handsome heroes of WW2; we stumbled in late and may have closed the ticket, but a lot of other folks put in as much effort as we did, if not more.
 
2020-10-17 5:28:24 AM  

Mad Canadian: optikeye: Father_Jack: The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

Yup...ask the Koreans or Chinese about how they think about the Japanese.

I can think of 731 reasons why they might be bitter...


I very much understood that reference.
 
2020-10-17 5:38:35 AM  

trappedspirit: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

What a weird direction to take this.


Maybe, but I do wonder what the WW2 vet's take on the current climate is. I know what my Grandfather would say.
 
2020-10-17 5:59:20 AM  

SurelyShirley: Fake News.I've been to Dachau twice, and the gate's still there.

CSB: having grown up in Germany (in the 70s, basically), we were confronted with our history on a daily basis, which is a good thing. Did a field trip to Bergen Belsen CC in 5th or 6th grade.
While on my second stint in the US, Mrs Shirley and I went to the old country on vacation. Munich, Bavaria, Oktoberfest, the Alps...and Dachau. After having been taught pretty much everything about WWII and the Holocaust in school back in the day, Dachau was a gut punch. Holy shiat. That was something else.
I'd be in favor, and I would gladly contribute to it, to send US high school kids on a field trip to Dachau or Auschwitz. It's something kids need to experience in person, not in textbooks or videos. (end of "cool" story, brah)


I agree 100%.  When I was 12, we visited Terezin in (then) Czechoslovakia.
 
2020-10-17 6:05:45 AM  

optikeye: Red Shirt Blues: No there was never any question. You are full of shiat. Utter horse shiat. Really I wonder if you are not a bot. Farm right off with your bull shiat and go to the library.

What the fark!!

I knew quite a lot of Alabama Battle of the Bulge Veterans. I and my SO attended their dinners for years and years...and yup. While WWII vets are noble brave etc. They where ...as a group...racist as fark. And could have tilted to either side at the start of WWII.

Heck when my Father finally met a Jewish veteran...(when my father was in his late 70's).
They became friends...very good friends (not in that way) ...but  our family gave his flag at the funeral to his friend.

That's reality. WWII vets where mostly racist bigots (AT THE TIME)  that would have been Nazis if not for the fact Germany attacked England and we had a 'contract' with England at the time.


You seem to think being racist is all it takes to support a murderous dictator. That really is bullshiat.
 
2020-10-17 6:07:48 AM  

knackx: As an additional note, blind "we're the best and were always the best and will always be the best" patriotism is one of the worst things for any country.

If we don't acknowledge our problems we cannot fix them; naked emperors and all.

Not sure if that's part of the reaction we're discussing above, but it such is the more common explanation these days.  Truly, I would be happier if it was rooted in something else.

In either case, we weren't the handsome heroes of WW2; we stumbled in late and may have closed the ticket, but a lot of other folks put in as much effort as we did, if not more.


As is sometimes said, "Germany was beaten with British brains, American brawn, and Soviet Blood."
 
2020-10-17 6:38:29 AM  

optikeye: ecmoRandomNumbers: I wonder what these guys would do if left alone in a room with a "Proud Boy." I think they'd kick said Proud Boy's ass.

Nope. Given I know quite a few of WWII vets from Battle of Bulge, including my Dad (Forward Observer at the Battle of the Bulge) . While they're proudly American. As a group they're racists as fark, especially the Alabama ones. They'd have been on Hitler's side if Germany and Japan didn't double tag the Allies. And those still alive are most likely proud boy Trumpers.

It was only in his latter years that Dad stopped the racism about Jews and had a Jewish Friend from his 'war vet group'.
Still when Dad died...he had a cabinet full of George Wallace and "Thunderbolt" newspapers. He was a WWII vet and more politically aligned with "Proud Boys" than any democratic (Except George Wallace)

This wasn't suprising....Even Vonnegut "Slaughter House Five" there's a bit there about the American "Nazi" party and how the US should be on Hitler's side. Anyone from that age and time knows it was really a balance who we would side for. The Japanese attack pretty much sealed that deal for the US for the Allies.


That sucks about your dad, but plenty of ww2 vets are nothing like that. My gramps was in the Pacific theater. Signed up at 17, he wasn't drafted. He is from Michigan and the most racist thing I've ever heard him say is that "those Mexicans are hard workers".

He's senile and in an old folks home where he hits on the ladies cause he still thinks he's a stud. And he doesn't go on racist rants. Pretty sure he'd have kicked a proud boys ass back in his day.
 
2020-10-17 6:41:31 AM  

Bruscar: God, how painful these men's memories must be.

I oppose all war, but I  am not so arrogant that I cannot recognize that Feezel, like so many others who were little more than boys when pitched into the maelstrom of WWII, is a true hero.


War is hell.  But sometimes, it's better than the alternative.
 
2020-10-17 6:43:49 AM  

Likwit: Mad Canadian: optikeye: Father_Jack: The french, the brits, everyone, and yes us too. Look at the country back then blacks were in the kitchens and out of sight, the civil rights movement was a generation away.

Yup...ask the Koreans or Chinese about how they think about the Japanese.

I can think of 731 reasons why they might be bitter...

Those were just lies pushed by the allies to make Japan the bad guy in WWII. Japan was a great liberator who wanted to elevate Asians above the white colonizers. Sure they killed and raped a bunch of people, performed cruel experiments on living subjects, and tried to erase the native culture wherever they went, but that was like justified or something. Japanese TV told me so.


Bullshiat. The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere was all about Japan becoming free of the West (and settling old grudges). They wanted to get rid of the colonisers so they could become the colonisers.
 
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