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(Inverse)   Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way. Could it be Baby Yoda Tribble? (spoiler warning)   (inverse.com) divider line
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1690 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 16 Oct 2020 at 10:51 AM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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4 days ago  
I see they're tripling down on making it the Michael Burnham: A Burnham Storyshow.
What the  can one even do at this point? And the actress is just exhausting to watch her only two expressions which are, verge of tears and constipated.

F*ck this show
 
4 days ago  
Premiere episode was pretty good. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the future setting.
 
4 days ago  
That's not Star Wars.  It's Mad Max: "but they're in space!"
 
4 days ago  
Whenever there was a "who would win?" debate I'd list all the technological advantages that Trek has -- combat at warp speeds, sensors that can see hundreds of light-years, and not being "blind" during FTL, subspace weaponry.

I guess Discovery just nerfed all of those.  Cool.

How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.
 
4 days ago  
Holy shiat do not listen to the idiot who wrote that. A quick trip down their own self linking rabbit hole brings us to https://www.inverse.com/article/39508​-​star-wars-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-rea​ding-books

Where he declares that most of the star wars universe who is not rich cant read just because there is no writing anymore

Ignore the whole tiny bit about a galaxy spanning civilization that has existed for over 25k years, who perfected digital communication millennia ago, and who have computers which are capable of keeping records intact for thousands of years

Of course, the part that really bothers me is that reminder that no one who was involved in the abortion of a movie series that disney crapped out for star wars ever read ANYTHING about it, because if they had (or even picked up any of the farking jedi games) they would have known that all jedi knowledge was stored in holocrons, which were basically cognitive clones of the jedi who made them

oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now
 
4 days ago  
oi there have been ships that landed on planets since the original series, twas just shuttlecraft back  then but it is far from a new concept in Star Trek.
 
4 days ago  
Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.
 
4 days ago  
lifeslammer:

"oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now"


Oh man, that was just, wow. These motherf*ckers are just creatively bankrupt. It's already looking like it will be the worst season of the three.
 
4 days ago  

Bslim: lifeslammer:

"oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now"


Oh man, that was just, wow. These motherf*ckers are just creatively bankrupt. It's already looking like it will be the worst season of the three.


Are the complaints so far just that it's bad Trek? I don't mind if it's bad Trek if it's a good show.

/ The first two seasons were bad everything.
// Except the couple of trashy space opera episodes in S1, and, improbably, everything about Pike in S2.
 
4 days ago  

skyotter: Whenever there was a "who would win?" debate I'd list all the technological advantages that Trek has -- combat at warp speeds, sensors that can see hundreds of light-years, and not being "blind" during FTL, subspace weaponry.

I guess Discovery just nerfed all of those.  Cool.

How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.


The Empire has two big advantages:

The fleet size is hundreds, if not thousands, of times larger than Starfleet
The Empire has no qualm about bombarding a planet to ash to deny it to an enemy

On tech, yes, the Federation wins. The Empire wins if they turn it into a war of attrition and resource denial.
 
4 days ago  
TOS is better than anything Star Wars related except for the LucasArts games.


Whattya wanna do about it???
 
4 days ago  
"Dusting crops"? All this time Gederation starships were powered by flatulence?
 
4 days ago  

PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.


Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point
 
4 days ago  
Discovery is shiat.
 
4 days ago  

skyotter: Whenever there was a "who would win?" debate I'd list all the technological advantages that Trek has -- combat at warp speeds, sensors that can see hundreds of light-years, and not being "blind" during FTL, subspace weaponry.

I guess Discovery just nerfed all of those.  Cool.

How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.


I always had the same argument as Adam Savage. In Star Wars they use things like "turbo lasers". In an episode of TNG, Worf laughed because the enemy ship had lasers, and Picard told them "They can fire until their lasers run dry and not hurt the enterprise"
 
4 days ago  

Magorn: PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.

Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point


I've become curious about the Lower Decks cartoon. I've heard good things, and it has a season story arc, which is nice.
 
4 days ago  

fallingcow: Bslim: lifeslammer:

"oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now"


Oh man, that was just, wow. These motherf*ckers are just creatively bankrupt. It's already looking like it will be the worst season of the three.

Are the complaints so far just that it's bad Trek? I don't mind if it's bad Trek if it's a good show.

/ The first two seasons were bad everything.
// Except the couple of trashy space opera episodes in S1, and, improbably, everything about Pike in S2.


The first two seasons are a great show and good Trek.

I can grew the Klingon redesign is dumb but I can get over it. And it has many of the issues any prequel does. But it is clearly Star Trek in modern television.
 
4 days ago  

OldJames: skyotter: Whenever there was a "who would win?" debate I'd list all the technological advantages that Trek has -- combat at warp speeds, sensors that can see hundreds of light-years, and not being "blind" during FTL, subspace weaponry.

I guess Discovery just nerfed all of those.  Cool.

How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.

I always had the same argument as Adam Savage. In Star Wars they use things like "turbo lasers". In an episode of TNG, Worf laughed because the enemy ship had lasers, and Picard told them "They can fire until their lasers run dry and not hurt the enterprise"


I mean technically they are more plasma cannons than lasers (by technicality). But there are also the Ion cannons, concussion missiles, proton torpedos, proton bombs, ion bombs, planet based weapons, battle stations, etc
 
4 days ago  
Both Star Wars and Star Trek are having fundamental and identically timed identity crises.  Neither of their production leads are interested in keeping what made them special and unique.  Rather they seem to be embracing the new Hollywood standard (and American entertainment industry as a whole) of "creating your own brand" and are only using the established intellectual property as an advertisement device.
 
4 days ago  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Magorn: PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.

Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point

I've become curious about the Lower Decks cartoon. I've heard good things, and it has a season story arc, which is nice.


I watched three or four episodes and it has been awful. A few moments of brilliance scattered among multitudes of "ooh, I bet you didn't think Star Trek would go there" jokes that got real old in the first episode.

I have been told that it improves but I haven't gotten around to watching more yet.
 
4 days ago  

dywed88: fallingcow: Bslim: lifeslammer:

"oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now"


Oh man, that was just, wow. These motherf*ckers are just creatively bankrupt. It's already looking like it will be the worst season of the three.

Are the complaints so far just that it's bad Trek? I don't mind if it's bad Trek if it's a good show.

/ The first two seasons were bad everything.
// Except the couple of trashy space opera episodes in S1, and, improbably, everything about Pike in S2.

The first two seasons are a great show and good Trek.

I can grew the Klingon redesign is dumb but I can get over it. And it has many of the issues any prequel does. But it is clearly Star Trek in modern television.


For S1, is this one of those things where not spotting the "twist" the instant a single frame related to it appears on screen (i.e. in the prison episode) improves it a lot? I've had that happen with movies where I spot the twist in the first shot of the film, expect them to subvert it because it was so obvious, but they don't, leave the theater all "well, that was a waste of time" then check in with The Internets and it's full of "ZOMG didn't see that coming what a great movie!" reviews, so I guess that makes a big difference in some cases. Everything else in that season's just pointless time-killing or the trashy space opera mirror universe episodes (so, the only good ones) so I guess that central "twist" must be important to one's enjoyment of the season.

And 2... phew. God that was awful. I don't see what's redeemable at all in that one, Pike aside. Lazily-written space melodrama with a lame mystery-box plot that goes nowhere either interesting or fun.

They need to go episodic so at least the occasional decent author can write them a good episode. Or hand the full-season plotting to someone with vision who's not a hack. Either would be an improvement. At least half the characters have promise and deserve better writing.
 
3 days ago  

Marcos P: TOS is better than anything Star Wars related except for the LucasArts games.


Whattya wanna do about it???


Go play X-Wing Alliance, maybe?
 
3 days ago  

Magorn: PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.

Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point


I am loving Lower Decks. It's completely different, but has an inherent Star Trek-Ness to it. Plus, it's cannon.

Short Treks were good - it's not the Michael Burnham show, and they told unique stories that had a good SF feel, and helped advance characters. More would be good.

I'm not a huge fan of the rest, but I'm happy we have more ST content that reaches to different audience.
 
3 days ago  

fallingcow: dywed88: fallingcow: Bslim: lifeslammer:

"oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now"


Oh man, that was just, wow. These motherf*ckers are just creatively bankrupt. It's already looking like it will be the worst season of the three.

Are the complaints so far just that it's bad Trek? I don't mind if it's bad Trek if it's a good show.

/ The first two seasons were bad everything.
// Except the couple of trashy space opera episodes in S1, and, improbably, everything about Pike in S2.

The first two seasons are a great show and good Trek.

I can grew the Klingon redesign is dumb but I can get over it. And it has many of the issues any prequel does. But it is clearly Star Trek in modern television.

For S1, is this one of those things where not spotting the "twist" the instant a single frame related to it appears on screen (i.e. in the prison episode) improves it a lot? I've had that happen with movies where I spot the twist in the first shot of the film, expect them to subvert it because it was so obvious, but they don't, leave the theater all "well, that was a waste of time" then check in with The Internets and it's full of "ZOMG didn't see that coming what a great movie!" reviews, so I guess that makes a big difference in some cases. Everything else in that season's just pointless time-killing or the trashy space opera mirror universe episodes (so, the only good ones) so I guess that central "twist" must be important to one's enjoyment of the season.

And 2... phew. God that was awful. I don't see what's redeemable at all in that one, Pike aside. Lazily-written space melodrama with a lame mystery-box plot that goes nowhere either interesting or fun.

They need to go episodic so at least the occasional decent author can write them a good episode. Or hand the full-season plotting to someone with vision who ...


I first experienced that with "Sixth Sense"...watched the trailer, knew exactly what the "shocking" twist was going to be....I'm not allowed to make predictions or share impressions of where things are going about shows my wife likes anymore

Maybe they could approach J Michael Straczynski with a huge apology and a larger bag of cash?
 
3 days ago  
Fallen Federation?  Oh, so we're using Andromeda now?

Will Michael find Tarn Vedra?  Will they need metaphasic shields to communicate with Trance?
 
3 days ago  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Magorn: PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.

Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point

I've become curious about the Lower Decks cartoon. I've heard good things, and it has a season story arc, which is nice.


Parody of a thing is not actually the thing, even if the parody itself is very good in and of itself.

And this is just  basiaclly ripping off the concept/primes of Starship Regulars from the early '00 web animation days. But then p[acting as if that premise fits in anyway to the ST theme, of the very show it takes its title from.

Lower decks actually showed us that while they are clearly less experienced and so less personally self assure.
They are no less starfleet through and though and obviously come from the same cultural norms as those around them.

While this show pretends to be ST while actually being parody of it that they jam some flavor of ST into to pretend it's not just parody that is way late to the table, and that actual parody can't also were the genuine label moniker of that which it seeks to take the piss out on.

Shows like this would get a vastly superior review from me if they were not insisting that i must filter my review of it through the lens of  established franchise name expectations.

So if you say: This is Star Trek" and then you are for sure just ST in style but not in substance.

Well that would be the New York born and raised city slicker opening their own Texas "style" BBQ joint.
It has all of 5 thigns to do with Texas , and it's just those five letters in that particular order.
So the review has to be, this is the worst Texas BBQ i ever ate. instead of the best New York BBQ i ever ate.
 
jvl [BareFark]
3 days ago  
Seems like this is going to be a reasonable reboot of Andromeda, though I will miss Doig acting circles around Sorbo.

The plot convenience of killing off long-distance knowledge is underrated. Since they don't know what's out there, the writers will be free to open up strange new worlds as they explore rather than get trapped into what they've described in the first season.
 
3 days ago  

smileyphase: Magorn: PvtStash: Star Trek just became more like Star Wars in one major way.

They are both now brand names that just mean the exact same thing now: Generic space action pew pew.

Star Trek TOS shared a lot of DNA with the Twilight Zone as an avenue for thought provoking sci-fi written by actual SF authors.   Cheesy and stupid in parts but a surprising smart show for its time and place.  TNG was creaking under the weight of what "star trek" became  and was too reverential or its own good but still was decent SF.  DS9 may have been some of the best writing and plots in a long time, but it had Babylon 5 to..*ahem* "draw inspiration from"   Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .  But the franchise utterly lost its soul with the Abrams reboots.  Like everything he touches, they died.   They jettisoned everything that made Trek unique and created generic actions movies with enough "brand names" and fan service moents to still claim to be "Trek"

I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point

I am loving Lower Decks. It's completely different, but has an inherent Star Trek-Ness to it. Plus, it's cannon.

Short Treks were good - it's not the Michael Burnham show, and they told unique stories that had a good SF feel, and helped advance characters. More would be good.

I'm not a huge fan of the rest, but I'm happy we have more ST content that reaches to different audience.


I would rank episode 8 of Lower Decks right up there with anything from the classic Simpsons era. It was that funny.
 
3 days ago  
So...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
3 days ago  

fallingcow: Are the complaints so far just that it's bad Trek? I don't mind if it's bad Trek if it's a good show.

/ The first two seasons were bad everything.
// Except the couple of trashy space opera episodes in S1, and, improbably, everything about Pike in S2.


Agreed, with a few exceptions.
Season one started off pretty well and season two ended well. Other than that? Almost as bad as the first two seasons of TNG.
The bridge of the sarcophagus ship had the best set design I've seen outside of major cinema.
 
3 days ago  
I love Star Wars.
I love Star Trek.

That doesn't mean I want my Star Wars to be like Star Trek nor does it mean I want my Star Trek to be like Star Wars. You just end up ruining both. Classic-Trek was one hour morality plays in a soft sci-fi space opera setting. Maybe Classic-Trek wasn't everyone's cup of tea but why does it have to be?

Last night's season premier for STD was terrible. It was so god damned boring. It was 90% flashing lights and shaky-cam and 10% story. I wish modern directors would realize nobody cares about special effects anymore. We expect with CGI (and god has the CGI in STD been crap too) to be able to deliver stunning effects. It's now just flashing lights to audiences. Look! Distracting pretty neon colours and a camera that won't sit still for 5 seconds so you have no idea what's actually going on! Nobody is impressed with that shiat anymore. Ooh! Here's a great big Nintendo monster that could never actually exist in the real world look at how big and scary it is. Except it's not because we see them all the time in video games.

Stop making movies and TV shows that are 90% special effects and only 10% actual story. We're just not impressed with special effects anymore. When everything becomes possible the impossible no longer is exotic. Special effects are ruining sci-fi and fantasy because the visual spectacle has overtaken story telling as the most important element.

But all that said I gotta admit I'm loving Lower Decks. It is so refreshing to see Star Trek, even if it is a soft-canon comedy cartoon, being made by people who clearly loved Classic-Trek for what it was and just want to have fun with it. Kelvin-Trek was made and marketed under the premise that Classic-Trek was shiat and the people who like it are nerdy and uncool old people. This is the REAL Trek now the way it always should have been". Prime-Trek is being made and marketed under the premise that Kelvin-Trek AND Classic-Trek were shiat and the people who like it are nerdy and uncool old people and that Prime-Trek is now the REAL Trek and everyone who hates it are racist and sexist nerdy and uncool old people. Lower Decks seems to be made under the premise "Wasn't Classic-Trek a lot of fun?" Even though I'm not a big fan of the Cal-Arts style I'm glad that Kelvin-Trek and Prime-Trek haven't soured me so much on Trek as a whole that I didn't just dismiss it off hand.
 
3 days ago  
Haven't watched it yet, planning to tonight. I mostly liked the first two seasons, despite them being panned. I loved Lower Decks too. Though I can't help but say the title to the tune of "Treasure Chest Party Quest" by Alestorm.
 
3 days ago  

lifeslammer: oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now


They made a really big point out of establishing that all time travel tech is banned so I'm going to go out on a limb that the big evil AI who is the villain of Prime-Trek because reasons is somehow behind the dilithium explosion and that as the series progresses they'll discover how the evil AI destroyed most of the dilithium and then they'll use the now illegal time travel tech to travel back in time to before the evil AI blew up all the dilithium and they'll prevent it and probably create yet another new Trek-timeline so they can abandon Prime-Trek and give us yet another Trek reboot.
 
3 days ago  

Magorn: Voyager was a half-decent premise that they basically chucked overboard 10 minutes in and became Generic Trek .


The TNG-VOY era of Classic-Trek had a very interesting fandom because it took place during the height of BBS culture so the fandom wasn't aimed at Johnny Lunchbox it was aimed at nerds and people who were somewhat scientifically and definitely technologically literate. I remember how excited I was at the premise of Voyager. It had the bones to make a really great series. A divided crew stranded decades away from home doing their best to survive in a completely alien quadrant. The idea of a ship and crew trying to return home but environmental forces would be constantly playing upon them so that you were questioning whether the crew would return home completely alien to the culture they left. What an awesome idea.

But all that got airlocked and instead we just got a watered down version of TNG because it was a familiar format. Just imagining what a Starfleet ship, stranded decades on the other side of the galaxy being repaired and upgraded with non-federation tech was enough to get my imagination flowing. But nope, end of episode reset button and Voyager never changes. Crew conflicts between Starfleet and Maquis, nope, all one happy family differentiated only by rank insignia. They created such a brilliant concept and then chickened out at the last moment to deliver a very generic Trek experience.

The biggest criticism I hear about Classic-Trek verse fans is that they want nothing new. That is completely false. We've always wanted something new, we just want it grounded in the continuity of the Trek we loved. Every Classic-Trek fan I've known would have loved it if Voyager had lived up to its promise instead of just delivering a tried-and-true Trek formula story.
 
3 days ago  

Ghastly: lifeslammer: oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now

They made a really big point out of establishing that all time travel tech is banned so I'm going to go out on a limb that the big evil AI who is the villain of Prime-Trek because reasons is somehow behind the dilithium explosion and that as the series progresses they'll discover how the evil AI destroyed most of the dilithium and then they'll use the now illegal time travel tech to travel back in time to before the evil AI blew up all the dilithium and they'll prevent it and probably create yet another new Trek-timeline so they can abandon Prime-Trek and give us yet another Trek reboot.


How does one ban time travel in the Trek universe? There's so many ways to do it, sometimes crews accidentally time travel. You can warp around a star to time travel, and you don't even need any special tech!
 
3 days ago  

Olympic Trolling Judge: That's not Star Wars.  It's Mad Max: "but they're in space!"


My 14 year old son was really getting into it so they must be doing something right.
 
3 days ago  

hawcian: Ghastly: lifeslammer: oh and if you guys want to know, by magic all the warp juice in the galaxy for trek went kaboom all at once because PLOT REASONS, not for anything that makes sense in any way, so flying in space is hard now

They made a really big point out of establishing that all time travel tech is banned so I'm going to go out on a limb that the big evil AI who is the villain of Prime-Trek because reasons is somehow behind the dilithium explosion and that as the series progresses they'll discover how the evil AI destroyed most of the dilithium and then they'll use the now illegal time travel tech to travel back in time to before the evil AI blew up all the dilithium and they'll prevent it and probably create yet another new Trek-timeline so they can abandon Prime-Trek and give us yet another Trek reboot.

How does one ban time travel in the Trek universe? There's so many ways to do it, sometimes crews accidentally time travel. You can warp around a star to time travel, and you don't even need any special tech!


Yeah it's just one of those things you have to just roll with in Prime-Trek. Like when they established if you used the space-fungus network as a power supply you'll end up destroying life in all the multiverses so they had to stop the Mirror universe from using fungus-power to protect the Prime-Trek universe. That made no sense because the Trek-universe is so vastly sentient-life rich and there are an infinite number of universes that are all connected by the same space-fungus network that if it was possible to use the space-fungus as a power supply and that doing so destroys all the multi-verses then the odds are 1 that some species in one of the infinite universes is going to use space-fungus batteries and destroy all the multi-verses.

There is just a lot of stuff in Prime-Trek where you have to start with the basic assumption that everyone who lives in their universe is an idiot of some sort.
 
3 days ago  

Bslim: I see they're tripling down on making it the Michael Burnham: A Burnham Storyshow.
What the  can one even do at this point? And the actress is just exhausting to watch her only two expressions which are, verge of tears and constipated.

F*ck this show


In fairness, that conceit was actually what I liked about the series when it started.  The basic concept was to have an ST series that was just laser-focused on one character, specifically a character who was a really bad fit for the Federation and its ideals (Episode One focuses on her already having dun frkked up on a truly epic scale, in the form of a mistake she wouldn't have even been in a position to make if she either believed in or understood Federation ideals) and following her journey to actually finding a place and coming to believe in those ideals.

That's... fundamentally interesting, in theory.  A perfect way to do all of the usual setting based stuff and exploratory adventures, while not doing yet another boring retread of the ensemble-cast structure with a status quo than is never really allowed to budge in major ways that most other series fell into.  Basically with a strong focus on a single character you could have the story have a strong arc while the setting maintains the usual ST status quo, you could have the story have all the fun sex and violence without making the Federation less sexless or more violent (remember the basic premise is that she's basically the worst Federation citizen to ever exist), and so on.

The weakness of it is obviously that you're now dependent on that one character staying interesting and the one actor portraying her being good enough to be worth watching, though... and they maybe half-managed the first one and completely dropped the ball on casting the second one, sadly.

// Basically single-character stories are strong when they work... but you're always only one character farking it up away from the dreaded "I don't care what happens to any of these people", whereas with the usual structure of Trek if you farking hate Neelix you can just skip to the next episode where Seven of Nine is the focus character.
 
3 days ago  

lifeslammer: OldJames: skyotter: Whenever there was a "who would win?" debate I'd list all the technological advantages that Trek has -- combat at warp speeds, sensors that can see hundreds of light-years, and not being "blind" during FTL, subspace weaponry.

I guess Discovery just nerfed all of those.  Cool.

How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.

I always had the same argument as Adam Savage. In Star Wars they use things like "turbo lasers". In an episode of TNG, Worf laughed because the enemy ship had lasers, and Picard told them "They can fire until their lasers run dry and not hurt the enterprise"

I mean technically they are more plasma cannons than lasers (by technicality). But there are also the Ion cannons, concussion missiles, proton torpedos, proton bombs, ion bombs, planet based weapons, battle stations, etc


The "hurr durr lasers lolol" argument is so dumb. It's bullshiat semantics. It's the annoying little kid on the playground saying they're immune to everything and nothing hurts them because they're just shiat at playing make believe
 
3 days ago  
I'd say it's time to reformat and reinstall Star Wars and Star Trek at this point.
 
3 days ago  

skyotter: How about transporters?  Those still working?  They're still a huge advantage.


Totally! Just like, imagine an elite group transporting into an apartment and throwing knives and doing karate to abduct someone.

/fark nutrek
 
3 days ago  

Nimbull: I'd say it's time to reformat and reinstall Star Wars and Star Trek at this point.


Fine with me. Redo the OT in the style of Galaxy of Adventures and pull more from the earlier working scripts/novels and I'll throw money at the screen all over again
 
3 days ago  

Magorn: I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point


I enjoyed Dicsovery - though it got a bit dull halfway through the second series. Picard started well but went completely off the rails. By the time the Federation had turned over the command of the fleet to space-hobo Riker it had just got stupid.

Both stole from other sources without credit. Discovery from an obscure PC game called Tardigrades and Picard from the comic Descender.
 
3 days ago  

BarryJV: Magorn: I haven't even bothered to watch the new series because I fee like Trek as a frachise utterly "broke faith" at that point

I enjoyed Dicsovery - though it got a bit dull halfway through the second series. Picard started well but went completely off the rails. By the time the Federation had turned over the command of the fleet to space-hobo Riker it had just got stupid.

Both stole from other sources without credit. Discovery from an obscure PC game called Tardigrades and Picard from the comic Descender.


The only things Discovery and Tardigrades have in common are Soace, giant versions of alien Tardigrades that function in extremely different ways, and some vague character outlines that could fit in a multitude of works.
 
3 days ago  
The best part of Discovery are characters who aren't Michael or the Klingon guy. Any time the other people on the ship are on screen, I'm probably enjoying it. Pike, Tully, Stamets, great. Mirror Universe spy master?  Awesome.

Burnham isn't terribly interesting. But every Trek has one or two characters I don't care about. I never liked Kirk or Riker, either. I'm interested enough to see what happens with the rest of the cast to keep going. I can accept that Burnham isn't there for me and still enjoy the rest of the show.
 
3 days ago  
I remember reading an article awhile back (or maybe it was in a Fark thread) that described Star Trek as "competence porn".

And that's exactly what it is. That's its appeal: People who are good at their jobs, working together to solve problems of significant scientific, technical, and possibly moral complexity.

For the geeky A+ student growing up who loves figuring things out and fixing things and learning how to solve puzzles, and who is maybe a bit of a loner, Star Trek is the perfect comfort food of the life they wish they could have: Being respected and relied on for their intelligence and their abilities, and having co-worker friends who will always be there for them and accept them for who they are.

That kind of appeal is emphasized in all Star Trek shows up until 90s Trek. There are no lazy oafs or procrastinators or people who suck at their jobs. Everyone knows how to do everything and does it with sublime efficiency (if its within their field of expertise). There's almost no learning curve to any new technology or idea.

Then you get these cynical shows like Discovery and Picard, and instead of showing uber-competent over-achievers with enlightened morality and rational thinking performing their jobs with exceptional skill and quality, you have these amoral farkups who can't do farkall farking everything up until things are farked and they're yelling fark at each other.

What Star Trek fan wants to watch something like that?

/and for what it's worth: I recently watched Lower Decks and loved it. It took me completely by surprise with its attention to detail and strong writing. I think the fact that the characters know so much about the Enterprise's more obscure missions without ever having served on board is one of the funnier 4th wall breaking running gags: They know everything about the Enterprise because *we* know everything about the Enterprise. And that naturally leads to geeky arguments.
 
3 days ago  

Bslim: I would rank episode 8 of Lower Decks right up there with anything from the classic Simpsons era. It was that funny.


There is a ship in Lower Decks called the USS Vancouver.

In its cargo bay are shuttlecraft named Marpole, Fairview, and Kitsilano. No one points them out or anything, they're just there in one scene, sitting in the background.

Those are all neighborhoods in Vancouver BC. Nobody outside of Vancouver would use those names for any location in the city. I'm guessing one of the writers is from there because that is some keen easter egg shiat that nobody except people from Vancouver would get.

/I've lived in two of them.
//it was at that point that I was sold on Lower Decks. It's a terrific show
 
3 days ago  
well, a black lead character is named "cleaveland". (???)
goodness, in the far assed end of the 27th (?) century. really?
add that to the pile of "why would i even waste my time with this show"
/i waited all my life for ST and SW to become another one of life's microaggressions.
 
3 days ago  

KingBiefWhistle: Nimbull: I'd say it's time to reformat and reinstall Star Wars and Star Trek at this point.

Fine with me. Redo the OT in the style of Galaxy of Adventures and pull more from the earlier working scripts/novels and I'll throw money at the screen all over again


That Star Trek Continues proved you can do old trek good without all the crap writing and overblown effects while still making the old trek look better with updated effects. It's sad that fan made projects do Star Trek better then the IP owners these days.
 
3 days ago  
Nimbull:

That Star Trek Continues proved you can do old trek good without all the crap writing and overblown effects while still making the old trek look better with updated effects. It's sad that fan made projects do Star Trek better then the IP owners these days.

As has been mentioned before, the fundamental problem lies in having people who absolutely hate the original Star Trek concept producing it. They don't want a stable Federation, they don't want optimism, and sure as hell don't want a crew that isn't full of dysfunctional sociopaths.
It's th Moore's Galactica replicated over.and over again. It becomes a chore to watch all the constant awfulness.
 
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