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(CNN)   While Europe and America are starting to enjoy the second wave of Covid-19, most Asian-Pacific countries are like "Covid who?"   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, World Health Organization, Democracy, Asia-Pacific, Pandemic, Public health, Epidemiology, Asia-Pacific region thanks, South Korea  
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1774 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2020 at 5:31 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-10-13 5:35:18 AM  
In the US, we aren't going to be on a second wave anytime soon. Our first one hasn't even crested yet.
 
2020-10-13 5:35:44 AM  
Europe is having a second wave, but the US still hasn't finished its first one.

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https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?a​reas=eur&areas=usa&areasRegional=usny&​areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usfl&​areasRegional=ustx&byDate=0&cumulative​=0&logScale=1&perMillion=1&values=deat​hs
 
2020-10-13 6:08:56 AM  
Dear leader would be very disappointed to see anyone making references to a second wave. He's worked very hard to ensure a second wave would never be able to hit by ensuring the first wave never ends.
 
2020-10-13 6:09:33 AM  
Well, it was never a question for us of whether we get a second wave, but rather about -when- it will come and how hard it will hit. Flatten the curve and all that. Even here in Germany it's hard to convince people to wear masks (althought I am happy that the rabid 'masks mean brain control chip by the Rothchild jew conspiracy' people are seen as crazy fringe instead of a political opinion). There's just not as much of a culture for it as in the Asian countries.
 
2020-10-13 6:17:58 AM  

ansius: Europe is having a second wave, but the US still hasn't finished its first one.

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https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?a​reas=eur&areas=usa&areasRegional=usny&​areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usfl&​areasRegional=ustx&byDate=0&cumulative​=0&logScale=1&perMillion=1&values=deat​hs


I see three waves of American exceptionalism.

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2020-10-13 6:18:59 AM  
You can expect hospitals in red states to have their death certificates "Cause of Death" sharpied over with lots of "FLU! HE DIED OF THE FLU!!" before the data is released this fall.
 
2020-10-13 6:19:54 AM  
It's almost as if wearing masks and social distancing are cultural in places like Japan. They don't require the Prime Minister to tell them why it's necessary.
 
2020-10-13 6:20:49 AM  
Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.
 
2020-10-13 6:26:28 AM  
Genetic component to the illness.
 
2020-10-13 6:28:01 AM  
My own research suggests Europeans' lighter colored shirts, on average, is the only difference between cultures that stands out.

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2020-10-13 6:34:55 AM  
Wear the masks, stupid
 
2020-10-13 6:37:02 AM  

Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.


But what about MY freedoms?!!

/this
 
2020-10-13 6:58:24 AM  

Resident Muslim: Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.

But what about MY freedoms?!!

/this


I guess Americans really are prepared to die for their freedoms.

/s
 
2020-10-13 6:58:45 AM  
Counties that wear masks do better than countries that don't.
 
2020-10-13 7:02:21 AM  
It's almost as if the strain mutated and what we got it different than we they got.
Which is why Italy was hit so hard.
 
2020-10-13 7:02:25 AM  
It was designed to infect people who eat a lot of dairy products!
 
2020-10-13 7:11:15 AM  

LL316: Counties that wear masks do better than countries that don't.


Plus counties by and large a lot smaller and easier to police.
 
2020-10-13 7:13:40 AM  

gimlet: It was designed to infect people who eat a lot of dairy products!


Oh dair.
 
2020-10-13 7:37:26 AM  
I wanna take mah boat out!
Mah kids need ta be in school where they can learn good!
 
2020-10-13 7:46:29 AM  

thealgorerhythm: Wear the masks, stupid



Just not a vented one...otherwise you're part of the problem.

While it still offers the wearer protection it does nothing to stop you from spreading it which is is the main reason for wearing the mask...to stop you from unknowingly spread Covid19 since studies still suggest 80% of infected people don't realize they have it and if you do get symptoms you were most likely spreading it up to 5 days prior to showing those symptoms.
 
2020-10-13 7:53:02 AM  

thealgorerhythm: Wear the masks, stupid


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/w​r​/mm6936a5.htm

In the 14 days before illness onset, 71% of case-patients and 74% of control-participants reported always using cloth face coverings or other mask types when in public.
 
2020-10-13 8:04:27 AM  

MugzyBrown: thealgorerhythm: Wear the masks, stupid

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr​/mm6936a5.htm

In the 14 days before illness onset, 71% of case-patients and 74% of control-participants reported always using cloth face coverings or other mask types when in public.


I don't speak poorly-drawn-dog, so I'll just say it in English: Masks are meant to protect others from you.
 
2020-10-13 8:19:57 AM  

TheSwizz: I don't speak poorly-drawn-dog, so I'll just say it in English: Masks are meant to protect others from you.


So the 70+% all got it from people not wearing masks?
 
2020-10-13 8:27:08 AM  

Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.


Those Asians and their collectivist tendencies.

Isnt that racist, really? I mean, even when you are giving a compliment, it really is backhanded. You know, I watched a program last night on NHK where they had a panel of 10 people. I would say 8 were researchers, think tank types, authors, doctors, government officials, and two were artists and celebrities. And the panel discussion was about how people feel about what has happened, how we should think about it, the meaning of risk, the meaning of life, what we can do, how we can help. No shouting. No anger. No fair and balanced agree to disagree crapola. There was disagreement, but everyone was an adult. They were smart and they measured their words carefully. Imagine societies that approach COVID19 as a public health issue and not a drama. Without fear and looking ahead. Planning ahead. Executing the plan. Adapting and evolving. Finessing.

How utterly un-Western and Asian of them. Who are these exotic super people?

I do not know ultimately what "the West" is planning to hide behind and what mirror it is avoiding, but saying that Asian countries are doing better against COVID because of culture and subservience is really running from the crux of the issue, isnt it? The Asians are the normal ones!!  Can it be any clearer that countries which "value individualism" are truly out of control? What is civil about a society that has to make laws to enforce hygiene? And then not enforce the laws because the sheriff disagrees with the governor? Is that "culture" or chaos? What do citizenship and public servant mean in that context?

Saying that Asia just achieved all this because they are Asian, instead of because they are reasonable and civic minded, is a shrug of surrender.  Asian racists can then take the baton and start lecturing white people on homelessness, gun violence, financial incontinence, drug abuse, corrupt democracy, and a hundred other areas of social failure. Are those racial weaknesses of white people or of "individualism"?

I think people should be judged on their character and their actions. There is no reason in the world that white people or Americans in general could not have done what Asian nations did in the face of COVID. New Zealand, Australia, and plenty of other nations with "free peoples" did it too. We should give credit where credit is due.

Reason has won the day. Some countries have people who can behave reasonably and some do not. Race and culture will matter only in the degree to which they support reasonable behavior. But the reason is the explanatory factor, not the race.

To learn from mistakes and be better people, we need to avoid racial and cultural apologism. Racism is surrender and dodges the real issue.

tldr:  Look for other correlates rather than race and culture. Public school funding might be a better correlate than race or Confucianism. Belief in UFOs and prevalence of anti-vaxxers probably explain more of COVID outcomes than race does. Everyone can be better, Asian or not.
 
2020-10-13 8:34:06 AM  
Further restrictions in Czech, effective tomorrow. All pubs and restaurants are to close until 3 November, but can do take out at a window until 8:00 pm. All schools online. And, a ban on drinking alcohol outside. Masks still mandatory.

I really hope this works. Our hospitals are overwhelmed.
 
2020-10-13 8:34:15 AM  

Tom Marvolo Bombadil: ansius: Europe is having a second wave, but the US still hasn't finished its first one.

[Fark user image 850x514]

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?a​reas=eur&areas=usa&areasRegional=usny&​areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usfl&​areasRegional=ustx&byDate=0&cumulative​=0&logScale=1&perMillion=1&values=deat​hs

I see three waves of American exceptionalism.

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You can SEE the freedom!1!!
 
2020-10-13 8:36:43 AM  

MugzyBrown: TheSwizz: I don't speak poorly-drawn-dog, so I'll just say it in English: Masks are meant to protect others from you.

So the 70+% all got it from people not wearing masks?


Actually, if you bother to read the document you linked, you'd see that a majority of people who ended up testing positive reported close contact with a family member who was sick prior to them and of those who didn't report close contact with a close family member, the Covid-19 positive people were twice as likely to report eating out where mask use isn't possible and infection risk is higher.

In fact the report itself doubled down by recommending mask use, even at home, especially if a family member shows symptoms... neat how reading the report rather than cherry picking statistics helps clarify context.

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2020-10-13 8:50:00 AM  

bborchar: It's almost as if wearing masks and social distancing are cultural in places like Japan. They don't require the Prime Minister to tell them why it's necessary.


same in canada, you morans. wear masks, and dont go to large gatherings. it aint hard
 
2020-10-13 8:55:16 AM  

tuxq: Resident Muslim: Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.

But what about MY freedoms?!!

/this

I guess Americans really are prepared to die for their freedoms.

/s


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-13 9:03:34 AM  

2fardownthread: Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.

Those Asians and their collectivist tendencies.

Isnt that racist, really? I mean, even when you are giving a compliment, it really is backhanded. You know, I watched a program last night on NHK where they had a panel of 10 people. I would say 8 were researchers, think tank types, authors, doctors, government officials, and two were artists and celebrities. And the panel discussion was about how people feel about what has happened, how we should think about it, the meaning of risk, the meaning of life, what we can do, how we can help. No shouting. No anger. No fair and balanced agree to disagree crapola. There was disagreement, but everyone was an adult. They were smart and they measured their words carefully. Imagine societies that approach COVID19 as a public health issue and not a drama. Without fear and looking ahead. Planning ahead. Executing the plan. Adapting and evolving. Finessing.

How utterly un-Western and Asian of them. Who are these exotic super people?

I do not know ultimately what "the West" is planning to hide behind and what mirror it is avoiding, but saying that Asian countries are doing better against COVID because of culture and subservience is really running from the crux of the issue, isnt it? The Asians are the normal ones!!  Can it be any clearer that countries which "value individualism" are truly out of control? What is civil about a society that has to make laws to enforce hygiene? And then no ...


OK, hold up here buddy because you're making a lotof weird assumptions about my post that aren't based on anything in it. For a start, I said nothing about "subservience", and you seem to be completely reading my comment in a racial/ethnic context rather than what it actually is, a societal one. There's nothing intrinsic to Asian people that makes them collectivist or as you put it, "subservient", but there's a whole lot about Asian societiesthat either tacitly or expressly encourages a collective mindset. What you're saying there is a truly bizarre misreading of what I actually said.

You're completely right that it was entirely possible for the countries that have well and truly shat the bed over the past six months - the USA and my native UK chief amongst them - to have done better. There's nothing intrinsically COVIDy about these places. But they didn't, because they have governments that ideologically prioritise negative liberty over collective goal-seeking, and people that have been raised with an individualist, libertarian mindset. And the libertarian mindset categorically does not work in a situation where everyone needs to co-operate to prevent harms.

Now, this is not to say that there are other reasons for the prevalence of COVID in these two countries specifically; the US public health system is a shambles and there is minimal to no safety net, and the UK one has been grossly defunded over the past ten years along with a safety net that is expressly designed to punish people for daring to use it. Both have prioritised reduced government spending over public health. That does not however mean that we can completely ignore the fact that both countries have a sizeable minority of ignorant people who, far from not understanding that their small sacrifice is necessary to secure a common good, actively refuse to comprehend that, and will actively push back against any such small sacrifice despite the minimal cost to them.

This mindset, and the resulting refusal of some to co-operate with basic public health measures, has to be factored into any fair analysis of the performance of each nation as regards the pandemic. Similarly, it is not at all unfair to point out that nations that do tend to have a sense of society as a collective to which they owe duties as well as expect rights are doing rather better.
 
2020-10-13 10:41:09 AM  

2fardownthread: Bloonface: Because mask wearing is already an ingrained habit, and their people are also by and large capable of/culturally encouraged to do things for an intangible and possibly remote common good rather than getting upset at other people's needs having some kind of influence over their decision making processes.

Countries with a collectivist streak have generally done really well, countries that have an individualistic one have been screwed. Turns out that collective action problems require collective actions to solve them, who coulda thunk it.

Those Asians and their collectivist tendencies.

Isnt that racist, really? I mean, even when you are giving a compliment, it really is backhanded. You know, I watched a program last night on NHK where they had a panel of 10 people. I would say 8 were researchers, think tank types, authors, doctors, government officials, and two were artists and celebrities. And the panel discussion was about how people feel about what has happened, how we should think about it, the meaning of risk, the meaning of life, what we can do, how we can help. No shouting. No anger. No fair and balanced agree to disagree crapola. There was disagreement, but everyone was an adult. They were smart and they measured their words carefully. Imagine societies that approach COVID19 as a public health issue and not a drama. Without fear and looking ahead. Planning ahead. Executing the plan. Adapting and evolving. Finessing.

How utterly un-Western and Asian of them. Who are these exotic super people?

I do not know ultimately what "the West" is planning to hide behind and what mirror it is avoiding, but saying that Asian countries are doing better against COVID because of culture and subservience is really running from the crux of the issue, isnt it? The Asians are the normal ones!!  Can it be any clearer that countries which "value individualism" are truly out of control? What is civil about a society that has to make laws to enforce hygiene? And then no ...


Yes, this a 100 times. Modern Koreans and Taiwanese are not subservient to the government. And the Korea and Taiwan are not able to fight Covid better because of cultural different, they win because they have better policies, and better execution of those policies.
 
2020-10-13 10:41:26 AM  
 
2020-10-13 1:04:46 PM  
Mask wearing, following hygiene procedures and signing in to new locations to help tracing response isn't that hard.  We've got a handle on it here in New Zealand, we do have a few conspiracy/anti lock down/my freedumbs idiots here but we shout them down, even had a politician call one of their leaders a Farking Idiot on public television.

We had a cluster based around an evangelical church who refused to take any measures and actively broke quarantine rules so tghe government threatened to lock them up in mandatory quarantine. My suburb was an epicenter of that cluster and even though we have no community transmission or restrictions any more almost everyone signs in to go to the supermarket and about 15% are still wearing masks when shopping.
 
2020-10-13 2:23:12 PM  

keldaria: MugzyBrown: TheSwizz: I don't speak poorly-drawn-dog, so I'll just say it in English: Masks are meant to protect others from you.

So the 70+% all got it from people not wearing masks?

Actually, if you bother to read the document you linked, you'd see that a majority of people who ended up testing positive reported close contact with a family member who was sick prior to them and of those who didn't report close contact with a close family member, the Covid-19 positive people were twice as likely to report eating out where mask use isn't possible and infection risk is higher.

In fact the report itself doubled down by recommending mask use, even at home, especially if a family member shows symptoms... neat how reading the report rather than cherry picking statistics helps clarify context.

[Fark user image 425x512]


It's hilarious how he quietly just dropped the trumpian line of attack when debunked using his own source and then drops a link from a right wing nutjob organization without any commentary. One whose director is part of the Oregon Institute of Science and Malarkey. It's like he's going out of his way to be as wrong as possible.
 
2020-10-13 5:24:20 PM  

bikkurikun: 2fardownthread: Bloonface: <snip about cultural differences, collectivism, etc....>

Yes, this a 100 times. Modern Koreans and Taiwanese are not subservient to the government. And the Korea and Taiwan are not able to fight Covid better because of cultural different, they win because they have better policies, and better execution of those policies.


I think they're doing better because of *both* cultural differences and better policies. And the two are interlinked...several Asian governments have better policies because their governments responded to COVID with a fairly unified goal of reducing infections. In the US, by contrast, different agencies and levels of government worked at cross purposes, individualistically rather than collectively. Some focused on reduced infection, but many others focused on downplaying perceived risks to help businesses, or appealing to voters, which led to successful coordinated fights against adequate testing, adequate mask usage, and appropriately tested vaccines.
 
2020-10-14 12:44:27 AM  
Well, here in the Pacific Northwest, we're just trying to come out of our third wave. So I guess we're ahead of the times.
 
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