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(Politico)   The Justice Department is looking into giving Google Chrome the old Internet Explorer treatment   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Google, Advertising, Web browser, parts of its lucrative advertising business, global market, Google's control, dominant Chrome browser, use of third-party cookies  
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1557 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Oct 2020 at 7:00 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-11 7:38:11 AM  
So basically ad companies are mad because Chrome will block cookies, so they're teaming up with the government to ensure your right to privacy is further eroded. Great.
 
2020-10-11 8:28:43 AM  
I have only ever used chrome once after a return to factory settings.
What is the issue?
 
2020-10-11 9:11:52 AM  
It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.
 
2020-10-11 9:33:56 AM  

BitwiseShift: It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.


That's because Google is nothing but a bunch of Hillary loving liberals working for the deep state.

Do I win a cookie?
 
2020-10-11 10:11:52 AM  
They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.
 
2020-10-11 10:15:17 AM  
The Internet Explorer treatment was that they dropped the case as soon as george w. bush took office. Seems like Google has little to fear.
 
2020-10-11 10:24:33 AM  
Will my Chromebook be just a Book then? Chrome is an integral part of the Chromebook.
 
2020-10-11 10:28:28 AM  

wrenchboy: BitwiseShift: It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.

That's because Google is nothing but a bunch of Hillary loving liberals working for the deep state.

Do I win a cookie?


Until Google gets rid of it, sure.
 
2020-10-11 12:10:40 PM  

neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.


Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?
 
2020-10-11 12:14:16 PM  

null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?


...you know those all run perfectly well on other browsers, right?  Unless you're on a Chromebook, I guess, in which case: I'm sorry.
 
2020-10-11 12:22:24 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: The Internet Explorer treatment was that they dropped the case as soon as george w. bush took office. Seems like Google has little to fear.


Dunno.  We are talking Dem Establishment now.  What do you think Nancy Pelosi (D-worst of Silicon Valley) is going to stand for?

Google will threaten to relocate to Ohio and take its jobs and money with it, and she'll roll over and do what Google wants.

It's the same shiat every corporation pulls, f*ck with us or don't give us our tax breaks and government contracts and we'll close up shop and move elsewhere.  See this all over Ohio, here in Toledo with the Jeep plant, GM plant, Owens Corning, down in Lima with the Lima Army Tank Plant, you name it.

Same shiat with Amazon shopping for a second headquarters.  "Give me what I want or I'll go away." (Implied threat of thousands of unemployed people and the collapse of the local or regional economy and political incumbents thus facing the wrath of the electorate.)
 
2020-10-11 12:23:42 PM  

null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?


Did you know that was optional as well? GSuite is no different than using Microsoft Office in what it does, and the business gets to choose whether or not to use it. If you're whining that you have to use it, Google isn't who you complain to, it's whoever made the decision at your company.
 
2020-10-11 12:31:37 PM  

tyyreaunn: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

...you know those all run perfectly well on other browsers, right?  Unless you're on a Chromebook, I guess, in which case: I'm sorry.


They are *supposed to*.

Right up to when Google says "unsupported browser" or "some features are not available in your current browser, please switch to Chrome".

It's the Microsoft Windows/Internet Explorer integration crap all over again.  Take your Chromebook or Android phone for example: Google owns the OS, the browser, and the apps, and now the ecosystem/store that you buy from too.

Yes, you can jailbreak and root and break the law (DMCA) while you're at it.  You can install alternative apps (which have to be approved by Google) or install a different app store (and endure the risks that come with that).  Just like everyone could go run Linux and Firefox and whatever they call OpenOffice now back in 1997, right?  Yeah give me a minute here while I figure out how to install all that on my phone and tablet.
 
2020-10-11 12:40:44 PM  

Mikey1969: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

Did you know that was optional as well? GSuite is no different than using Microsoft Office in what it does, and the business gets to choose whether or not to use it. If you're whining that you have to use it, Google isn't who you complain to, it's whoever made the decision at your company.


You missed the point on the product tying.

If you want to use G-Suite you pretty much either have to roll with Chrome or get stuck with a whole pile more tech support on why Firefox or IE or Edge or whatever doesn't work right or look right or Gmail gives an error message.

Seen it first hand, bro.  Though I'm not the bonehead administrators who implement the garbage, I just get to clean up after them.

/have no real problem with either G-Suite or Chrome per se, do have a problem with anti-competitive behavior, product-tying, and closed/arbitrary standards.
//remember when Microsoft was evil and they would "embrace and extend" things or arbitrarily change crap to shake off competition? Or they would just buy out everyone?
///Google, Apple, and Facebook are now worse than Microsoft was, with Amazon not far behind.
 
2020-10-11 12:47:35 PM  

Shaggy_C: So basically ad companies are mad because Chrome will block cookies, so they're teaming up with the government to ensure your right to privacy is further eroded. Great.


In this case, they're an advertiser with a spying browser that also prevents other advertisers from spying.

/ all that ought to just be illegal.
 
2020-10-11 12:48:16 PM  

null: Mikey1969: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

Did you know that was optional as well? GSuite is no different than using Microsoft Office in what it does, and the business gets to choose whether or not to use it. If you're whining that you have to use it, Google isn't who you complain to, it's whoever made the decision at your company.

You missed the point on the product tying.

If you want to use G-Suite you pretty much either have to roll with Chrome or get stuck with a whole pile more tech support on why Firefox or IE or Edge or whatever doesn't work right or look right or Gmail gives an error message.

Seen it first hand, bro.  Though I'm not the bonehead administrators who implement the garbage, I just get to clean up after them.

/have no real problem with either G-Suite or Chrome per se, do have a problem with anti-competitive behavior, product-tying, and closed/arbitrary standards.
//remember when Microsoft was evil and they would "embrace and extend" things or arbitrarily change crap to shake off competition? Or they would just buy out everyone?
///Google, Apple, and Facebook are now worse than Microsoft was, with Amazon not far behind.


That's because it functions thru Chrome. If you use Office, you use office. If you use GSuite, it just accesses thru the browser, and the one that works best for it is made by the company, this isn't some stupid antitrust shiat, it just makes common sense.
 
2020-10-11 12:50:15 PM  

null: tyyreaunn: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

...you know those all run perfectly well on other browsers, right?  Unless you're on a Chromebook, I guess, in which case: I'm sorry.

They are *supposed to*.

Right up to when Google says "unsupported browser" or "some features are not available in your current browser, please switch to Chrome".

It's the Microsoft Windows/Internet Explorer integration crap all over again.  Take your Chromebook or Android phone for example: Google owns the OS, the browser, and the apps, and now the ecosystem/store that you buy from too.

Yes, you can jailbreak and root and break the law (DMCA) while you're at it.  You can install alternative apps (which have to be approved by Google) or install a different app store (and endure the risks that come with that).  Just like everyone could go run Linux and Firefox and whatever they call OpenOffice now back in 1997, right?  Yeah give me a minute here while I figure out how to install all that on my phone and tablet.


You're not breaking the law by rooting the phone. Neither are you breaking the law by installing a custom ROM. As a matter of fact, the courts have said that blocking you from doing so is violating the law. But it's just like copy protection on DVDs, companies ignore the law.

But it is not illegal in any way to root your phone.
 
2020-10-11 12:56:59 PM  
MS tried to destroy Netscape company-to-company. Chrome just outcompetes other browsers at just being a browser. Except Safari, because it does that great swipe to go back gesture i can't live without.
 
2020-10-11 12:57:47 PM  
I don't get it. You have to install Chrome - it doesn't come pre installed. And on most PC's you have to fight like hell to change the settings to use Chrome instead of that two headed monster of IE + Bing. I fail to see abuse of the market.
 
2020-10-11 1:14:31 PM  

wrenchboy: BitwiseShift: It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.

That's because Google is nothing but a bunch of Hillary loving liberals working for the deep state.

Do I win a cookie?


You would have, but I've blocked them.
 
2020-10-11 1:35:00 PM  

tyyreaunn: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

...you know those all run perfectly well on other browsers, right?  Unless you're on a Chromebook, I guess, in which case: I'm sorry.


You can install other browsers on a Chromebook. Either the Android or Linux versions. I use FIrefox.
 
2020-10-11 1:57:35 PM  

covfefe: MS tried to destroy Netscape company-to-company. Chrome just outcompetes other browsers at just being a browser. Except Safari, because it does that great swipe to go back gesture i can't live without.


But part of the reason it's a "better browser" is because of the amount of the internet that Google controls.  Every website is running a bunch of google scripts for analytics and is hosting ads served up by google.  Most video content is hosted on YouTube which is run by Google.  A ton of pages have started using amp for their mobile content.  A ton of people use gmail for their mail and google docs for for their mail.  Google makes sure all of that works best in Chrome.

Look at Windows Phone.  People loved the OS, but complained there weren't any apps.  But having used one, the biggest complain was really the lack of *Google* apps.  There was no YouTube app, there was no Gmail App.  There were no Google Docs apps.  There was no Google Maps.  When Google bought Waze they immediately killed the Windows Phone app.  And additionally - all of the web versions of those worked absolutely terribly in the Mobile Edge.  Which was weird because the rest of the internet worked fine.

Google has a huge amount of power and decisions they make have wide ranging consequences.  Even wielded innocently with the best of intentions, this is problematic and makes competition difficult.  But there seem to be a lot of indications that they're not as innocent as one might hope and are actively trying to destroy competitors.
 
2020-10-11 2:00:24 PM  

seanpg71: covfefe: MS tried to destroy Netscape company-to-company. Chrome just outcompetes other browsers at just being a browser. Except Safari, because it does that great swipe to go back gesture i can't live without.

But part of the reason it's a "better browser" is because of the amount of the internet that Google controls.  Every website is running a bunch of google scripts for analytics and is hosting ads served up by google.  Most video content is hosted on YouTube which is run by Google.  A ton of pages have started using amp for their mobile content.  A ton of people use gmail for their mail and google docs for for their mail.  Google makes sure all of that works best in Chrome.

Look at Windows Phone.  People loved the OS, but complained there weren't any apps.  But having used one, the biggest complain was really the lack of *Google* apps.  There was no YouTube app, there was no Gmail App.  There were no Google Docs apps.  There was no Google Maps.  When Google bought Waze they immediately killed the Windows Phone app.  And additionally - all of the web versions of those worked absolutely terribly in the Mobile Edge.  Which was weird because the rest of the internet worked fine.

Google has a huge amount of power and decisions they make have wide ranging consequences.  Even wielded innocently with the best of intentions, this is problematic and makes competition difficult.  But there seem to be a lot of indications that they're not as innocent as one might hope and are actively trying to destroy competitors.


You're not wrong about the horrible financial power, but I don't think Chrome is implicated. Webkit is simply the best. Break up the ad cartels or just mandate shipping adblock with the browser or whatever, i'd be on board.
 
2020-10-11 2:19:06 PM  

covfefe: seanpg71: covfefe: MS tried to destroy Netscape company-to-company. Chrome just outcompetes other browsers at just being a browser. Except Safari, because it does that great swipe to go back gesture i can't live without.

But part of the reason it's a "better browser" is because of the amount of the internet that Google controls.  Every website is running a bunch of google scripts for analytics and is hosting ads served up by google.  Most video content is hosted on YouTube which is run by Google.  A ton of pages have started using amp for their mobile content.  A ton of people use gmail for their mail and google docs for for their mail.  Google makes sure all of that works best in Chrome.

Look at Windows Phone.  People loved the OS, but complained there weren't any apps.  But having used one, the biggest complain was really the lack of *Google* apps.  There was no YouTube app, there was no Gmail App.  There were no Google Docs apps.  There was no Google Maps.  When Google bought Waze they immediately killed the Windows Phone app.  And additionally - all of the web versions of those worked absolutely terribly in the Mobile Edge.  Which was weird because the rest of the internet worked fine.

Google has a huge amount of power and decisions they make have wide ranging consequences.  Even wielded innocently with the best of intentions, this is problematic and makes competition difficult.  But there seem to be a lot of indications that they're not as innocent as one might hope and are actively trying to destroy competitors.

You're not wrong about the horrible financial power, but I don't think Chrome is implicated. Webkit is simply the best. Break up the ad cartels or just mandate shipping adblock with the browser or whatever, i'd be on board.


The issue is you get lots of little things like this:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-to​-​fix-slow-edge-youtube

If YouTube and Chrome weren't both owned by Google, Maybe you could argue that the YouTube developers just spend the most time supporting the most popular browser.  Supporting all of them is hard.  But when Google has a vested interest in keeping chrome popular, you have to start to wonder to what degree this sort of thing is intentional.
 
2020-10-11 2:33:55 PM  

seanpg71: covfefe: seanpg71: covfefe: MS tried to destroy Netscape company-to-company. Chrome just outcompetes other browsers at just being a browser. Except Safari, because it does that great swipe to go back gesture i can't live without.

But part of the reason it's a "better browser" is because of the amount of the internet that Google controls.  Every website is running a bunch of google scripts for analytics and is hosting ads served up by google.  Most video content is hosted on YouTube which is run by Google.  A ton of pages have started using amp for their mobile content.  A ton of people use gmail for their mail and google docs for for their mail.  Google makes sure all of that works best in Chrome.

Look at Windows Phone.  People loved the OS, but complained there weren't any apps.  But having used one, the biggest complain was really the lack of *Google* apps.  There was no YouTube app, there was no Gmail App.  There were no Google Docs apps.  There was no Google Maps.  When Google bought Waze they immediately killed the Windows Phone app.  And additionally - all of the web versions of those worked absolutely terribly in the Mobile Edge.  Which was weird because the rest of the internet worked fine.

Google has a huge amount of power and decisions they make have wide ranging consequences.  Even wielded innocently with the best of intentions, this is problematic and makes competition difficult.  But there seem to be a lot of indications that they're not as innocent as one might hope and are actively trying to destroy competitors.

You're not wrong about the horrible financial power, but I don't think Chrome is implicated. Webkit is simply the best. Break up the ad cartels or just mandate shipping adblock with the browser or whatever, i'd be on board.

The issue is you get lots of little things like this:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-to-​fix-slow-edge-youtube

If YouTube and Chrome weren't both owned by Google, Maybe you could argue that the YouTube developers just spend the most time supporting the most popular browser.  Supporting all of them is hard.  But when Google has a vested interest in keeping chrome popular, you have to start to wonder to what degree this sort of thing is intentional.


With Microsoft and Google I'm willing to believe incompetence over malice. Test your code before you release it. Even facebook.com doesn't work right on a standard iPad or chrome for me.
 
2020-10-11 2:59:49 PM  

covfefe: With Microsoft and Google I'm willing to believe incompetence over malice. Test your code before you release it. Even facebook.com doesn't work right on a standard iPad or chrome for me.


https://blog.chriszacharias.com/a-con​s​piracy-to-kill-ie6
Now, on the one hand, ie6 had to die, so I'm pretty ok with the results of that.  But it's an interesting read.


One thing you'll note from that is the lawyer asking "Why did you have to put Chrome first?"

Apparently they've stopped worrying about that sort of thing.
https://support.google.com/youtube/an​s​wer/175292?hl=en
 
2020-10-11 3:46:36 PM  
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2020-10-11 4:06:40 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: The Internet Explorer treatment was that they dropped the case as soon as george w. bush took office. Seems like Google has little to fear.


Nope

Nov. 2, 2001 - Microsoft Signs Consent Decree with U.S. Government to Settle Antitrust Case
 
2020-10-11 4:49:56 PM  
Google is just a small startup, guys. Overzealous justice department intern.
 
2020-10-11 4:54:39 PM  

neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.


Well, it could be harder now that Edge is Chrome under the hood on Win10
 
2020-10-11 5:05:34 PM  
As I recall, the DOJ folded its claim against Microsoft after George Bush was elected
I'm sure it had nothing to do with campaign contributions

So, a set up to enrich politicians by threatening a huge bag of money so some will shake loose
 
2020-10-11 6:04:43 PM  

jaytkay: The Reverend Sam Hill: The Internet Explorer treatment was that they dropped the case as soon as george w. bush took office. Seems like Google has little to fear.

Nope

Nov. 2, 2001 - Microsoft Signs Consent Decree with U.S. Government to Settle Antitrust Case


Yeah, and it changed a great many things, too.
 
2020-10-11 6:31:49 PM  
Opera, Vivaldi, or GTFO
 
2020-10-11 7:26:49 PM  

null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?


Know how I know you didn't think that argument through? No one is forcing your company to use g-suite shiat. They can choose to not use it! Amazing.
 
2020-10-12 8:58:01 AM  

Shaggy_C: So basically ad companies are mad because Chrome will block cookies, so they're teaming up with the government to ensure your right to privacy is further eroded. Great.



well................it IS their country these days, ya' know.
 
2020-10-12 9:01:24 AM  

wrenchboy: BitwiseShift: It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.

That's because Google is nothing but a bunch of Hillary loving liberals working for the deep state.

Do I win a cookie?


no

Google is a bunch of Capitalists looking to grow their stock using any method they can get away with.  by law, they are required to increase lazy sit a home stock owner profits/free money at 15% capital gains tax rate.

their Snooping Tech is a wonder to behold too.  i'm dropping Android for a Librem 5 for that and other reasons.

eventually all my hardware will be Linux and open source software only.
 
2020-10-12 9:02:36 AM  

The Madd Mann: wrenchboy: BitwiseShift: It will take some time with this  current DOJ for the investigators to purchase enough stock in competitors and to interview hedge fund managers as to what they should find.

That's because Google is nothing but a bunch of Hillary loving liberals working for the deep state.

Do I win a cookie?

Until Google gets rid of it, sure.



good one      i heard the knife go in from here.
 
2020-10-12 9:05:12 AM  

KarmicDisaster: tyyreaunn: null: neongoats: They realize that installing Chrome is optional, right? Uninstalling it is easy and possible?

They probably actually don't realize that.

Know how I know you don't work somewhere that subscribes to G-Suite or whatever they call it where all your email, docs, and so on are via Google?

...you know those all run perfectly well on other browsers, right?  Unless you're on a Chromebook, I guess, in which case: I'm sorry.

You can install other browsers on a Chromebook. Either the Android or Linux versions. I use FIrefox.



it helps, but any OS that google or any other company produces is going to snoop your ass, take your data, and sell it for a dollar and a cent, as well as track your movements via cell phone.

except Linux and Open Source software.
 
2020-10-12 9:15:44 AM  
I've been using Firefox now for years...I'm amazed how its market share has shrunk to almost nothing :(
 
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