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(The Drum)   The coronavirus lockdowns are only increasing income inequality while also helping the big companies that can adapt at the expense of small businesses. There is no humor in this headline   (thedrum.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Tel Aviv, Wal-Mart, Convenience store, market leaders, Drum columnist Samuel Scott, Pizza, Stock market, unintended consequence of the coronavirus lockdown  
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309 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Oct 2020 at 9:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



34 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-10-05 8:29:43 AM  
So you're saying there are downsides to everything? Does this mean both sides are bad?
 
2020-10-05 8:45:59 AM  
Maybe letting the rich suck up most of the cash from the stimulus wasn't such a great idea.

And "We can't pay people not to work!" didn't help, either.
 
2020-10-05 8:54:53 AM  
The 1% could not have orchestrated this better if they had tried.
 
2020-10-05 9:01:35 AM  

educated: The 1% could not have orchestrated this better if they had tried.


By "orchestrated," I think you mean "taken advantage of."
 
2020-10-05 9:15:22 AM  
Thank you.  I've been looking for who is behind promoting no masks and party bars, etc. open for quite some time as it confounds normal logic.    Really, who pours fuel on an already raging fire unless it's at a competetor's place.
 
2020-10-05 9:22:27 AM  
Big businesses don't adapt.  In fact they're notoriously inflexible.  The advantage to being big is that you scarcely need to reach out to politicians in a pinch; soon as you need a bailout they'll rush over to you and start slobbering all over your knob.
 
2020-10-05 9:42:11 AM  
Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?
 
2020-10-05 9:46:09 AM  

bostonguy: educated: The 1% could not have orchestrated this better if they had tried.

By "orchestrated," I think you mean "taken advantage of."


Nope, I mean orchestrated.
I mean if they had the opportunity to design something that would disproportionately kill people they don't like, transfer huge amounts of wealth, consolidate power, and maintain an atmosphere that "naturally" discourages people from organizing against them (including voting), they could not have built something better than what they have here.

Yeah, they are taking advantage of it, absolutely.
But they could not have designed it better if they had thought to.
 
2020-10-05 10:08:58 AM  

Linux_Yes: Urmuf Hamer: So you're saying there are downsides to everything? Does this mean both sides are bad?

Capitalism is circling the drain.  Run amuck capitalism anyway.

The only difference between run amuck capitalism and Fascism is the body count


As far as differences go, that is a pretty major and significant one.
 
2020-10-05 10:20:02 AM  

v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?


We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.
 
2020-10-05 10:37:57 AM  

skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.


And I never thought I'd live to see a pandemic streak across the world in a few short months and see the United States bungle the response so badly that we will have forcibly ejected ourselves from the seat of hegemony over the world.
 
2020-10-05 10:40:45 AM  

BitwiseShift: Thank you.  I've been looking for who is behind promoting no masks and party bars, etc. open for quite some time as it confounds normal logic.    Really, who pours fuel on an already raging fire unless it's at a competetor's place.


Most bars are small businesses, not part of any large corporation.  Nobody is promoting such really; it's just something people want to do.  Depriving people of both Bread and Circuses leads to a pissed off population.  I'm actually kind of surprised the backlash isn't stronger than it is.
 
2020-10-05 10:40:54 AM  

skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.


Anyone who claims that they didn't know the cost of shutting down the economy for 2+ months would result in devastation to small businesses is selling you something.  Its like pulling the key stones from an arch bridge then complaining you had no idea that would cause it to collapse, then proceeding to blame the design.

And the we is the collective.  You personally may have not agreed with the shutdown.  But guess what, you were overruled by the elected majority.  If that pisses you off, remember it next time you vote.
 
2020-10-05 10:41:30 AM  

skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.


It's not acceptable.  Having millions of people die from a pandemic is even less acceptable, however.
 
2020-10-05 10:43:43 AM  

Geotpf: skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.

It's not acceptable.  Having millions of people die from a pandemic is even less acceptable, however.


Exactly.  We chose our lesser evil.  Now we have to deal with it.
 
2020-10-05 10:49:34 AM  

Geotpf: BitwiseShift: Thank you.  I've been looking for who is behind promoting no masks and party bars, etc. open for quite some time as it confounds normal logic.    Really, who pours fuel on an already raging fire unless it's at a competetor's place.

Most bars are small businesses, not part of any large corporation.  Nobody is promoting such really; it's just something people want to do.  Depriving people of both Bread and Circuses leads to a pissed off population.  I'm actually kind of surprised the backlash isn't stronger than it is.


What backlash is possible? The Senate  is refusing any help to the taxpayer. Nothing can be done until January.
 
2020-10-05 11:46:42 AM  

dragonchild: Big businesses don't adapt.  In fact they're notoriously inflexible.  The advantage to being big is that you scarcely need to reach out to politicians in a pinch; soon as you need a bailout they'll rush over to you and start slobbering all over your knob.


To some degree.  No one is tripping over themselves to help Regal, Landry, Macy's, or another of the other massive companies that are really struggling right now.  Manufacturing and distribution will always get bailouts because of its importance to the greater economy, but retail is largely on its own because reasons.

As far as the authors premise, they provide no data other than some stock numbers, but the businesses they're talking about are not publicly listed.  The small businesses around me that have adapted their business model(or already supported a modern business model) are doing quite well.  The ones that haven't aren't doing so well.  And this includes businesses that have been hit pretty hard: bars are doing to-go cocktails and packages(get 1L margarita in a giant mason jar with limes, salt, and Dixie cups for $x), which the state has allowed.  The Improv is doing drive-in comedy with a stage setup on the top floor of the parking garage.  Barbers, hair stylists, and nail salons are operating under easy-ups in front of the business as authorized by the state without compromising their licensing.  etc.  Demand for these services hasn't disappeared, rather it has just transformed in a way that requires a modification to deliver.  Not every business is willing to take these risks and make these changes, though, so they remain slow, closed, or shut down.
 
2020-10-05 11:52:10 AM  

Linux_Yes: Urmuf Hamer: So you're saying there are downsides to everything? Does this mean both sides are bad?

Capitalism is circling the drain.  Run amuck capitalism anyway.

The only difference between run amuck capitalism and Fascism is the body count


Run amok capitalism has killed many times more people over the centuries than the relatively brief periods where fascism has reared its head.

Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example
 
2020-10-05 11:54:52 AM  

gnarlywizzard: Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example


Uh, what?

I'd say a combination of colonialism, racism, religious bigotry, and ignorance of how disease spreads did that. I don't think capitalism had even been invented at the time. It came partly as a result of the Industrial Revolution centuries later.
 
2020-10-05 11:59:38 AM  
Disaster capitalism and neoliberalism are working as intended. The bigger the disaster, the more capital you can squeeze out of the victims. Don't forget, every tax break for the rich is a tax increase on the rest of us.
 
2020-10-05 12:29:38 PM  

thehobbes: Geotpf: BitwiseShift: Thank you.  I've been looking for who is behind promoting no masks and party bars, etc. open for quite some time as it confounds normal logic.    Really, who pours fuel on an already raging fire unless it's at a competetor's place.

Most bars are small businesses, not part of any large corporation.  Nobody is promoting such really; it's just something people want to do.  Depriving people of both Bread and Circuses leads to a pissed off population.  I'm actually kind of surprised the backlash isn't stronger than it is.

What backlash is possible? The Senate  is refusing any help to the taxpayer. Nothing can be done until January.


Backlash to the restrictions and masks and shiat is what I was referring to.
 
2020-10-05 12:35:20 PM  

bostonguy: gnarlywizzard: Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example

Uh, what?

I'd say a combination of colonialism, racism, religious bigotry, and ignorance of how disease spreads did that. I don't think capitalism had even been invented at the time. It came partly as a result of the Industrial Revolution centuries later.


The history of capitalism is diverse and has many debated roots, but fully fledged capitalism is generally thought by scholars to have emerged in Northwestern Europe, especially in Great Britain and the Netherlands, in the 16th to 17th centuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History​_​of_capitalism
 
2020-10-05 12:45:14 PM  

gnarlywizzard: Linux_Yes: Urmuf Hamer: So you're saying there are downsides to everything? Does this mean both sides are bad?

Capitalism is circling the drain.  Run amuck capitalism anyway.

The only difference between run amuck capitalism and Fascism is the body count

Run amok capitalism has killed many times more people over the centuries than the relatively brief periods where fascism has reared its head.

Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example


True

In the aggregate fascism cant compete with capitalism.

Fascism is a bonfire and capitalism is a slow but steady grassfire covering millions of square miles.
 
2020-10-05 12:46:19 PM  

Nadie_AZ: bostonguy: gnarlywizzard: Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example

Uh, what?

I'd say a combination of colonialism, racism, religious bigotry, and ignorance of how disease spreads did that. I don't think capitalism had even been invented at the time. It came partly as a result of the Industrial Revolution centuries later.

The history of capitalism is diverse and has many debated roots, but fully fledged capitalism is generally thought by scholars to have emerged in Northwestern Europe, especially in Great Britain and the Netherlands, in the 16th to 17th centuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_​of_capitalism


The US has State Capitalism not free market capitalism.
 
2020-10-05 12:56:21 PM  

Linux_Yes: Nadie_AZ: bostonguy: gnarlywizzard: Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example

Uh, what?

I'd say a combination of colonialism, racism, religious bigotry, and ignorance of how disease spreads did that. I don't think capitalism had even been invented at the time. It came partly as a result of the Industrial Revolution centuries later.

The history of capitalism is diverse and has many debated roots, but fully fledged capitalism is generally thought by scholars to have emerged in Northwestern Europe, especially in Great Britain and the Netherlands, in the 16th to 17th centuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_​of_capitalism

The US has State Capitalism not free market capitalism.


The amount of interference by the state in the US in the markets is probably less than almost any other country.  Now, that doesn't mean that the US government doesn't interfere plenty, just that they interfere less than South Korea, Japan, China, India, Russia, France, the UK, etc.  I'm in favor of keeping it that way.

Now, non-interference doesn't mean not enacting safety and pollution standards, etc., provided they are for honest safety and pollution control reason and not to punish or support one company or another.
 
2020-10-05 1:39:44 PM  

skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.


Or to give them wildly stupid rules to abide by while they are open.

Bowling alleys: You have to wear a mask when you bowl, when the lanes are all separated by curtains, even though only a complete a-hole would bowl on a lane within 2 lanes of someone else that is already about to bowl. Then when you go back to your table where everyone else is, you can take your mask off.
 
2020-10-05 2:38:07 PM  

Geotpf: Linux_Yes: Nadie_AZ: bostonguy: gnarlywizzard: Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example

Uh, what?

I'd say a combination of colonialism, racism, religious bigotry, and ignorance of how disease spreads did that. I don't think capitalism had even been invented at the time. It came partly as a result of the Industrial Revolution centuries later.

The history of capitalism is diverse and has many debated roots, but fully fledged capitalism is generally thought by scholars to have emerged in Northwestern Europe, especially in Great Britain and the Netherlands, in the 16th to 17th centuries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_​of_capitalism

The US has State Capitalism not free market capitalism.

The amount of interference by the state in the US in the markets is probably less than almost any other country.  Now, that doesn't mean that the US government doesn't interfere plenty, just that they interfere less than South Korea, Japan, China, India, Russia, France, the UK, etc.  I'm in favor of keeping it that way.

Now, non-interference doesn't mean not enacting safety and pollution standards, etc., provided they are for honest safety and pollution control reason and not to punish or support one company or another.


One issue is that the term " free market" has been corrupted. The original meaning in classic economics texts does NOT mean an unregulated market. In fact it specifically means a market regulated to allow free access by everyone.

Right now, most of the nations wealth is tied up in markets the 99 percent do not have access to. Instead of the less regulated free market which led to this situation, we need something like an open market which is regulated to the extent that everyone can invest and play equally.

To me, in this day and age, that looks less like tons of new corporate taxes (although those would be nice) and more like forcing companies to invest in pensions; expanding employee ownership; laws encouraging co-ops, non profits, and other alternatives to traditional legal capitalist corporate entities.

Id also have the govt do a lot more monopoly breaking as well as nationalize large chunks of Amazon.
 
2020-10-05 3:07:11 PM  

gnarlywizzard: To me, in this day and age, that looks less like tons of new corporate taxes (although those would be nice) and more like forcing companies to invest in pensions; expanding employee ownership; laws encouraging co-ops, non profits, and other alternatives to traditional legal capitalist corporate entities.


Creating new taxes and then ways to avoid them is how to drive a company in that direction, though.  The 401k company match exists because it creates a desirable tax outcome.  Pensions also provide that function, but defined benefit systems are difficult to sustain and rely on perpetual growth to provide historic levels of benefits
 
2020-10-05 4:41:26 PM  

gnarlywizzard: Linux_Yes: Urmuf Hamer: So you're saying there are downsides to everything? Does this mean both sides are bad?

Capitalism is circling the drain.  Run amuck capitalism anyway.

The only difference between run amuck capitalism and Fascism is the body count

Run amok capitalism has killed many times more people over the centuries than the relatively brief periods where fascism has reared its head.

Capitalism in the US killed 80 million native Americans, for example


Oh come on.  All of that was almost entirely by disease by coincidence.  Capitalism wasn't even a thought at the time, it was still the feudal age.  Diseases like covid, but a dozen of them at once did all that.

Capitalism is more like the slavery that happened earlier, based on viewing oneself superior due to everyone here dying, and therefore, it must be God's plan.

Therefore your profit off th slave labour is what you legitimately earned yourself, since you earned thos slaves.

At best you could say it killed half the native population in the 19th century, which went from 600k to 300k by 1900, fighting against 70 Milli n at that point.

I still don't understand how 100 vs 1 makes you 'brave'.
 
2020-10-05 5:14:58 PM  

OldJames: skatedrifter: v2micca: Once again, we knew this was a cost of the shutdowns and deemed it to be an acceptable casualty.  The barn is open, and the cows are in the next county, why are we wasting time crying by the door now?

We knew? Who is this we? I for one certainly never thought it was acceptable to force people to close their small businesses and into bankruptcy. That's asinine.

Or to give them wildly stupid rules to abide by while they are open.

Bowling alleys: You have to wear a mask when you bowl, when the lanes are all separated by curtains, even though only a complete a-hole would bowl on a lane within 2 lanes of someone else that is already about to bowl. Then when you go back to your table where everyone else is, you can take your mask off.


The problem is they are making up these rules on the fly, and therefore some of them are definitely Version 0.902D beta and therefore buggy.  I'm guessing this particular one is a combination of things-one, not expecting the lanes separated by curtains (I've never seen that in a bowling alley pre-covid), combined with the table being a place where one can eat or drink.
 
2020-10-05 5:16:57 PM  

gnarlywizzard: Right now, most of the nations wealth is tied up in markets the 99 percent do not have access to.


I call bullshiat on "99 percent do not have access to the markets".  I own some stock; lots of people do.  Lots of people have 401ks and pensions.  Heck, there are even things that let you buy fractional shares of companies.
 
2020-10-05 7:03:21 PM  

Geotpf: gnarlywizzard: Right now, most of the nations wealth is tied up in markets the 99 percent do not have access to.

I call bullshiat on "99 percent do not have access to the markets".  I own some stock; lots of people do.  Lots of people have 401ks and pensions.  Heck, there are even things that let you buy fractional shares of companies.


The top 1 percent owns close to 60 percent of all equities in the US.
 
2020-10-06 11:59:50 AM  

gnarlywizzard: The top 1 percent owns close to 60 percent of all equities in the US.


And you think that this statement supports your position?
 
2020-10-06 12:38:08 PM  

BMFPitt: gnarlywizzard: The top 1 percent owns close to 60 percent of all equities in the US.

And you think that this statement supports your position?


????

Yes? Is this a trick question?
 
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