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(KING 5 News)   Gov. Inslee says Boeing would be 'turning its back' on Washington State if they move 787 Dreamliner production to South Carolina, where workers will be unable to match the *breaking noise* level of quality of Washinton *bending metal screech* workers   (king5.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Washington, Gov. Jay Inslee, state of Washington, State Sen. Reuven Carlyle, Boeing 787, tax break extension, South Carolina, Competition between Airbus and Boeing  
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378 clicks; posted to Business » and Politics » on 01 Oct 2020 at 1:48 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-10-01 12:23:39 PM  
Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.
 
2020-10-01 2:04:44 PM  
I really don't think Government's really understand incentive structure.

Step 1) State #1 offers some incentives
Step 2) State #2 offers better incentives
Step 3) Company relocates to State #2

................

State #1 Pikachu face

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-01 2:05:02 PM  
Boeing, what happens when you let McDonnell Douglas suits run another company into the ground.
 
2020-10-01 2:09:41 PM  
I'm sure plenty of meth can be produced in South Carolina for Boeing employees to exist.

/ Washington State is still in the 1990s.
// Come to think of it wish I was too.
 
2020-10-01 2:09:53 PM  

OkieDookie: Boeing, what happens when you let McDonnell Douglas suits run another company into the ground.


That merger should never have happened, just like the Delta/Northwest Airlines merger.
 
2020-10-01 2:10:20 PM  
Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago back in 2001. It was clear to everybody at the time that Boeing would eventually move completely out of the state. Outsourcing literally all of the construction of the Dreamliner's individual components was another step. Turning the original Renton plant into a shopping mall was another.

In their minds, Boeing is already gone. The rest is just details.
 
2020-10-01 2:20:50 PM  
In the early 1970's, Boeing laid off about 36,000 employees. The region survived and it will again.
 
2020-10-01 2:27:52 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.


Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.
 
2020-10-01 2:31:51 PM  
I really can't blame Boeing for trying to escape the mess that is the Seattle metro area.  There are plenty of greener pastures that would be happy to have them.
 
2020-10-01 2:37:02 PM  
 
2020-10-01 2:39:27 PM  
I thought it was the 787s built in South Carolina that had the major quality-control problems, the ones that were the aerospace equivalent of "surgical instruments left inside the patient's abdomen" sorts of things.
 
2020-10-01 2:43:17 PM  

Robo Beat: I thought it was the 787s built in South Carolina that had the major quality-control problems, the ones that were the aerospace equivalent of "surgical instruments left inside the patient's abdomen" sorts of things.


Well the MAX is so farked up it won't fly without special software.

I for one want to fly in a plane that WANTS to stay aloft.
 
2020-10-01 2:48:41 PM  

AsparagusFTW: I really don't think Government's really understand incentive structure.

Step 1) State #1 offers some incentives
Step 2) State #2 offers better incentives
Step 3) Company relocates to State #2

................

State #1 Pikachu face

[Fark user image image 295x171]


#2 is really Right to work state with no unions and the ability to fire employees at will
 
2020-10-01 2:49:34 PM  

Robo Beat: I thought it was the 787s built in South Carolina that had the major quality-control problems, the ones that were the aerospace equivalent of "surgical instruments left inside the patient's abdomen" sorts of things.


All due to low pay, low morale, and high turnover rate.
 
2020-10-01 2:55:21 PM  

HempHead: AsparagusFTW: I really don't think Government's really understand incentive structure.

Step 1) State #1 offers some incentives
Step 2) State #2 offers better incentives
Step 3) Company relocates to State #2

................

State #1 Pikachu face

[Fark user image image 295x171]

#2 is really Right to work state with no unions and the ability to fire employees at will


As far as I'm aware, every state in the United States is at-will.  If washington isn't, I'll leave the shiathole known as Ohio in a heartbeat.
 
2020-10-01 3:26:14 PM  
Boeing execs think they can grab any yokal off the streets and have them put together composite planes like Legos

/has family member that used to be a manager for the 787 line
 
2020-10-01 3:44:07 PM  

jake3988: HempHead: AsparagusFTW: I really don't think Government's really understand incentive structure.

Step 1) State #1 offers some incentives
Step 2) State #2 offers better incentives
Step 3) Company relocates to State #2

................

State #1 Pikachu face

[Fark user image image 295x171]

#2 is really Right to work state with no unions and the ability to fire employees at will

As far as I'm aware, every state in the United States is at-will.  If washington isn't, I'll leave the shiathole known as Ohio in a heartbeat.


There are 11 states with implied-in-law exceptions.
 
2020-10-01 4:06:24 PM  

paulleah: Well the MAX is so farked up it won't fly without special software.


There are enough problems with the MAX that you don't need to lie. (I'll also accept that you don't know what you're talking about)  The "special software" on the MAX isn't there to keep the plane flying, it's there to make the plane feel like a 737 during very specific, and rare, instances.
 
2020-10-01 5:12:51 PM  

paulleah: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.

Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.


Even better.
 
2020-10-01 5:29:46 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.


That's an amazing amount of wrong to fit into a comment. On the other hand, Boeing's workers are generally unionized, well paid, and have excellent low cost health insurance, so they're hated by the 'real Seattle'
 
2020-10-01 5:39:39 PM  

Robo Beat: I thought it was the 787s built in South Carolina that had the major quality-control problems, the ones that were the aerospace equivalent of "surgical instruments left inside the patient's abdomen" sorts of things.


The 787-10 has parts made in Kansas that are too big to ship to Washington.  If Boeing feels the need to close one line while no one is ordering wide-bodied aircraft, it kind of needs it to be the Washington line.

In the long-run, this does mean Everett should have the space to be able to build the replacement for the 737/757, but that's still 5-10 years out.
 
2020-10-01 6:02:37 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: paulleah: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.

Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.

Even better.


Meh. I'm two miles from downtown for the last thirty years. I don't know a single person that works at Boeing. Their workers are primarily located north and south of Seattle.
 
2020-10-01 6:20:50 PM  

leviosaurus: Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago back in 2001. It was clear to everybody at the time that Boeing would eventually move completely out of the state. Outsourcing literally all of the construction of the Dreamliner's individual components was another step. Turning the original Renton plant into a shopping mall was another.

In their minds, Boeing is already gone. The rest is just details.


AFAIK the mall is across the street from the original Boeing plant.

Source:  I lived next door to the plant in 2012, and frequented the Landing regularly.
 
2020-10-01 6:29:28 PM  
I wonder if this will revive the NLRB complaint against Boeing from when their CEO basically said (in a video deposition) that they were building a second assembly line in SC so that they could try to keep the Seattle employees from striking every four years.

https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/fa​c​t-sheets/fact-sheet-archives/boeing-co​mplaint-fact-sheet/boeing-complaint
 
2020-10-01 6:44:17 PM  

DRTFA: paulleah: Well the MAX is so farked up it won't fly without special software.

There are enough problems with the MAX that you don't need to lie. (I'll also accept that you don't know what you're talking about)  The "special software" on the MAX isn't there to keep the plane flying, it's there to make the plane feel like a 737 during very specific, and rare, instances.


I thought that the software was needed to compensate for the relocation/resizing of the engines that left to their own physics results in a plane that does not want to stay in the air.  Which, for something that should want to stay in the air, amounts to a pretty fatal design philosophy, even if they implemented technical solutions (e.g. the software) to mitigate it.
 
2020-10-01 7:38:35 PM  
Oblig:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-01 8:20:34 PM  

Nuclear Monk: I thought that the software was needed to compensate for the relocation/resizing of the engines that left to their own physics results in a plane that does not want to stay in the air.  Which, for something that should want to stay in the air, amounts to a pretty fatal design philosophy, even if they implemented technical solutions (e.g. the software) to mitigate it.


Partially correct.

The larger engines had to be mounted further forward so the larger fan can be accommodated by mounting them higher on the wing. The turbofan engines on anything other than the very first 737s with turbojet engines were already mounted forward and higher so there was adequate clearance between the engines and the runway.

This means lots more thrust was not thrusting through the center of gravity of the aircraft, meaning more thrust has the effect of trying to push the nose upward. At very specific flying conditions such as a high angle climb and high thrust settings, there was the risk that this excess thrust could push the airplane into a stall because the nose was too high (a high angle of attack).

To counter this, computer software would monitor flying conditions and when the airplane was pushing into what could be a dangerous area the computer would adjust the rear stabilizers to keep the nose from rising too much (keep the airplane from stalling). It was designed to be a fairly transparent system that would be in use infrequently, and the really bad part for Boeing is they didn't even mention the system in the flight manual. The told pilots it was like flying any other 737 and when the system malfunctioned the pilots couldn't easily work the problem because they didn't know what was going on.
 
2020-10-01 8:30:39 PM  
Yeah, that's my dream in life.
To find myself at 30,000 feet in the air, in an elaborate aluminum tube that was built and QCd by meth heads whose parents were siblings or cousins.
 
2020-10-01 8:43:57 PM  

Nuclear Monk: DRTFA: paulleah: Well the MAX is so farked up it won't fly without special software.

There are enough problems with the MAX that you don't need to lie. (I'll also accept that you don't know what you're talking about)  The "special software" on the MAX isn't there to keep the plane flying, it's there to make the plane feel like a 737 during very specific, and rare, instances.

I thought that the software was needed to compensate for the relocation/resizing of the engines that left to their own physics results in a plane that does not want to stay in the air.  Which, for something that should want to stay in the air, amounts to a pretty fatal design philosophy, even if they implemented technical solutions (e.g. the software) to mitigate it.


MCAS exists because of the different location of the engines, but it only affects the horizontal trim during high angle of attack flight.  This change in pitch trim is not a safety issue at all, it is simply to make the MAX feel just like every other 737.  The plane would fly fine without MCAS but the FAA wouldn't certify it as a 737 variant if it didn't feel to the pilot like a 737 in all aspects.
 
2020-10-01 9:49:50 PM  

paulleah: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.

Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.


Probably not.  If Amazon were to open up in Everett with 10-15K people, it would help a lot.  I kind of wish Amazon would.
 
2020-10-01 10:49:49 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: paulleah: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.

Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.

Even better.

Meh. I'm two miles from downtown for the last thirty years. I don't know a single person that works at Boeing. Their workers are primarily located north and south of Seattle.


Possibly. I was under the impression that there was a metric ass ton of Boeing employees in south seattle since there's still a plant or at least a lot of offices there.
 
2020-10-01 10:54:24 PM  

epyonyx: paulleah: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Boeing is a garbage corporation run by garbage people. The faster they leave my state the better.

Boeing's employee base also skews conservative, so oh well.

Yes, Boeing treats their employees worse than Amazon does, and that's saying something. The only worse major employer is Expeditors International, which is basically a sweat shop run by psychopaths.

Well.... Seattle home prices would at least stabilize.

Probably not.  If Amazon were to open up in Everett with 10-15K people, it would help a lot.  I kind of wish Amazon would.


Same. When I first moved here, amazon hiring more people was awesome because it meant they poached a ton of people from other more awesome companies and startups. If you were in tech even if you hated amazon, it was a win-win.

Now? Haha, no. Amazon has maxed out everything everywhere. Go build Ark2 (or whatever your ego names it, Bezos) in Virginia and create all the jobs there, thanks.
 
2020-10-02 1:38:01 AM  

DRTFA: paulleah: Well the MAX is so farked up it won't fly without special software.

There are enough problems with the MAX that you don't need to lie. (I'll also accept that you don't know what you're talking about)  The "special software" on the MAX isn't there to keep the plane flying, it's there to make the plane feel like a 737 during very specific, and rare, instances.


Great! So everyone on the internet gets to lie except me.

Thanks a lot.
 
2020-10-02 2:05:21 AM  

mrmopar5287: The larger engines had to be mounted further forward so the larger fan can be accommodated by mounting them higher on the wing. The turbofan engines on anything other than the very first 737s with turbojet engines were already mounted forward and higher so there was adequate clearance between the engines and the runway.


Early 737s actually used low-bypass turbofan engines. For the -100 and -200 series Boeing used the Pratt & Whitney JT8D, the same model used on the 727 and DC-9.

What I'm wondering is why they decided not to go with the JT8D-200 for the 737-300, since it was already in production for the MD-80. Sure, the CFM56 was more powerful, and ended up being hugely successful, but they could've gone with an engine that didn't screw with the plane's center of gravity - and then the MAX problem a few decades later might never have happened.
 
2020-10-02 4:30:35 AM  

cyberspacedout: mrmopar5287: The larger engines had to be mounted further forward so the larger fan can be accommodated by mounting them higher on the wing. The turbofan engines on anything other than the very first 737s with turbojet engines were already mounted forward and higher so there was adequate clearance between the engines and the runway.

Early 737s actually used low-bypass turbofan engines. For the -100 and -200 series Boeing used the Pratt & Whitney JT8D, the same model used on the 727 and DC-9.


That's right. I had a brain slip. I thought those cigar-shaped nacelles under the wings of the -100 and -200 were turbojets like the first 707 models.

I think Southwest and Alaskan were the last to use the -200 jets in the USA. Some models are still flying cargo in Canada and Alaska with the very rare 737 gravel kit for non-paved runways.
 
2020-10-02 9:08:14 AM  

cyberspacedout: What I'm wondering is why they decided not to go with the JT8D-200 for the 737-300, since it was already in production for the MD-80. Sure, the CFM56 was more powerful, and ended up being hugely successful, but they could've gone with an engine that didn't screw with the plane's center of gravity


Maybe future engine development? The JT8D might have been reaching the end of it's thrust capacity but the CFM56 was new on the market with more efficiency and thrust on the horizon for long-term development.
 
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