DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

Latin-America. Latin-American. Latino/a/x.
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Latin.
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You wanna reclaim "Latin" so you won't have to learn a new suffix, you are free to try. You will also have to sell Danny Trejo on "Chican," not to mention "Norteamerican" and perhaps "rubi" for blond/e people. And as far as the structure looking weird to native speakers, that also looks extremely weird.

And are you white at all? Because I understand you telling me what to call myself is particularly rude from a white person. Not to ignore it being rude otherwise.

DoBeDoBeLurk: g.fro: You live in your own world, don't you?  Do you think blond/blonde has any meaning in English? It doesn't. Gendered words are a feature of Romance languages (among others), so if you want to import words from those languages, but retain their original grammar, you will have to use whatever rules they use in their own language. And before you start playing around with the construction of the Spanish language, you might want to consult la Real Acadamia, because Spanish, unlike English, is a prescriptivist language.

So close! So close to understanding the use of a loanword vs. a word in its native language! We have to use whatever rules they use in their own language... except when we don't.

The evolution of blond and blonde, with a discussion of gendered loanwords: https://www.cjr.org/analysi​s/blondes_brunettes_chaperone.php

We DON'T retain the original grammar of loanwords, we use them however we want. They are loanwords. We have made them English. People are having scholarly arguments about whether it's spelled "chaperone," because regardless of the original source, it's being used in English as English now.

When women who are in any way Hispanic are addressed with a gendered loanword, most of them prefer that you modulate the gender. You can get all snotty and yell, "WE DON'T USE IT LIKE THAT HERE! O/A HAS NO MEANING IN ENGLISH!" and... I don't know. I'd say about half will be so caught off guard that you get away with it and the other half will unload on you. Or you can behave like a human being and treat people like they ask to be treated.

"X" is a gender-neutral suffix that's being used in Spanish-speaking countries AND in the USA with gendered loanwords. The reasons are the same, but either language may end up using something else, or two different constructs. It is a made up suffix. All language is made up. A pencil does not self-identify as a gender or care. A person does care.

If you're going to be a language Nazi and cite purity, there are a lot of words and structures English needs to stop using, and you will be telling a lot of Latinas, "Stop that. We don't gender English. You're Latino." Also, for Spanish, all the indigenous influence on Spanish in Latin America has GOT to go. You WILL start using "vosotros," and a "taco" will not be a tasty snack, but a drywall anchor or a chunk of something.

Language doesn't care. You're not going to freeze language and I don't see you trying. "X" and"@" and "E" and all the rest are not doing any more damage to Spanish than "jumbo jet." You're running so fast to defend an abstract concept that you don't seem to care about the actual people who are asking to be included.

But it's not as if I expect you to read this. You didn't come here to read.

DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

Context! Again, if you want to use Latin as a gender neutral replacement for Latino, you will be calling groups of people "Latins" and "Latin people." Latins would be a new usage, same as Latinx, and you are welcome to try. Latin people or peoples has an unclear meaning - which I am basing on the fact that if you plug "latin people" into Google you get Romans as your first result, then Latin Americans and Latinos, all of which are different. Latin GRAMMY is obviously related to Latin America, because it's a modern thing. You are also ignoring the fact that it's meant to be used as a suffix. "Elle es muy flac," is not a huge improvement over "flacx" or "flace."

And remember, it is still super rude to tell people what to call themselves! I'm not going to roll up and announce, "I'm a Latin!" I'd sound like goddamn Ralph Wiggum from the Simpsons. That usage doesn't even have the 3% or so of people who use Latinx to recommend it.

xander450: My favorite thing about this thread is a bunch of white people defending the English language against its *most recent* adjustment.

/ Really, "Latin,-American"? You know how much noise the troglodytes made about appending "American" to racial designators?

DoBeDoBeLurk: g.fro: DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

That's not grammatical language; ships are, in fact, female. But landlubbers like you will never understand that.

You've attempted to fark several ships and think you've succeeded, don't you?

I haven't farked your mom; doesn't mean she's not female.

Her ashes are in a box in the ground mixed with those of my stillborn twin sisters. You really want to go there? I'm not super attached to a box of ashes, but the police might have a word.

DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

Some of us use X! "Nonbinary" is not a designation that exists entirely outside of "Latino." Would it kill ya to write Latino/a/x? If some of us don't like it, they don't have to call themselves that! But I'd like the option for myself, thanks. Unless you've got something better.

DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

That's not grammatical language; ships are, in fact, female. But landlubbers like you will never understand that.

You've attempted to fark several ships and think you've succeeded, don't you?

DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

g.fro: As for English, sorry, no grammatical gender here. I would think that would be a point of celebration for the gender-warriors, but apparently it's more fun to create a windmill to tilt against.

We're talking about gendered language for PEOPLE, and we do also have grammatical gender, see above. Usually objects are female.

..:

DoBeDoBeLurk: g.fro: English doesn't need a gender-neutral replacement for anything, because English doesn't have gender. So you are trying to import a foreign idea into the language, just so you can then fight against it.

OMG. You don't even want to be asked to call women "Latina" if they want? "Latino" will do for everyone, even Needless above, who prefers "Latina." English has no genders! Give back all the loanwords and their associated grammar then. You will need to come up with a replacement for blond/e, among many others which have nothing to do with gender but do come with their own rules. Enjoy speaking the Queen's English. We don't want no foreign language here.

g.fro: And anyone trying to argue that the use of "Latin" to refer to people from Latin America is either new or confusing is either misinformed or deliberately dishonest.

Context! If you're going to replace the grammatical function of "Latino/a/x" entirely with Latin, you will be using it in new and exciting and dumb ways! And here you are telling people who use Latino, Latina AND Latinx to get farked.

Show me someone who uses the form "I'm a Latin!" and "Latins" to talk about themselves and our culture and I will apologize for insulting their identity, otherwise you're making it up. And you are completely ignoring the use as a suffix in Spanish-speaking countries and for other gendered loanwords.

And you are still trying to tell multiple people what to call themselves!

montreal_medic: orbister: montreal_medic: My Spanish is weak, but I speak French fluently. French also has gendered words, which frankly make very little sense when you think about them.

Why does a chair or a table need a gender? Why is the real word for a car (automobile) feminine while the quebecois slang (char) is masculine?

It kind of just is.

I'm not even sure that think about the "masculine" and "feminine" is useful, except as back-formed grammatical labels. "We've got Type 1 and Type 2 nouns and most obviously male things are Type 1 so we'll call that masculine."

I have German relatives, including a professor of German, and they never seem to think of "masculine", "feminine" or "neuter" - the question is simply whether a noun is "der", die" or "das". I don't think they perceive tables as male or answers as female.

True. Masculine and feminine nouns are referred to that way, but they aren't thought of as "the chair is a girl". Masculine and feminine nouns are NOT male or female nouns

It's just an "arbitrary" type

Ragin' Asian: ...
Tell that to our "mother tongue" or the following:

God bless America.
Land that I love.
Stand beside her,
and guide her

And so on and so forth.

HotWingConspiracy: Dryad: HotWingConspiracy: Dryad: People from Spanish-speaking countries don't know what "Latinx" means, or if it's actually racist

That is because its a term only non-Spanish speaking people use, and yes, its inherently racist.

I think you're going to have a tough time labeling 1st generation immigrant Daniela Muñoz or a professor named María R. Scharrón-del Río as racist against Spanish speaking people.

I'm sure you'll try when you reply though.

Tokenism. Neat. Do Diamond and Silk next

Why would you call those women tokens for voicing their opinion on the term when asked?