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(NPR)   Even people from Spanish-speaking countries don't know what "Latinx" means, or if it's actually racist   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Stupid, Hispanic and Latino Americans, young people, Spanish language, Mara R. Scharrn-del Ro, original language of colonization, Mark Hugo Lopez, Daniela Muoz, policing of Spanish  
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3052 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 01 Oct 2020 at 10:06 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-10-01 1:33:52 PM  
I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-01 1:37:20 PM  

Corn_Fed: deadsanta: There's a "Latinx" host on NPR who just drives me nuts every afternoon the way she virtue-signals her race and cultural sensitivity every minute. Can't recall her name, but she has a classic "news accent" right up until she hits a Spanish word/name/place and then she shifts into almost a parody of a Latina delivery to speak just that one word, before shifting back to newsspeak.  It makes me clench.

God, I see that all the time from various local news anchors. It bugs the hell out of me.


https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li​v​e/video/enchilada/n9970
 
2020-10-01 1:38:14 PM  

whidbey: And another white person telling hispanics who they "really" are and how they're idiots if they don't pick a white-approved categorization.


People are "funnying" your posts because you're kinda doing this exact thing.

Can you please not tell me what my experience is? Thanks.
 
2020-10-01 1:38:25 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

[Fark user image image 768x432]


Not all of the gender words have an X though, so they're mixing it up.
 
2020-10-01 1:42:02 PM  

ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: Outside of America, I've never heard a single "OMG SPANISH IS SEXIST" from anyone.

La Gramática Castellana es Machista


[brevidad]

So...you mean a conservative Catholic country would colloquially refer to women as sluts?

I'm pretty sure the youth don't consider every single Mujer de Vida a "Puta"

Jesus Christ man.


You only annoy people by intentionally missing the point.

And I'm pretty sure the complete expression is "mujer de la vida allegre", which does indeed mean a lady of the night, though there's nothing allegre about being one.
 
2020-10-01 1:42:38 PM  

xander450: My favorite thing about this thread is a bunch of white people defending the English language against its *most recent* adjustment.

/ Really, "Latin,-American"? You know how much noise the troglodytes made about appending "American" to racial designators?


Uhh... you know Latin America is a place, right?

People from there are "Latin Americans".
 
2020-10-01 1:43:30 PM  

ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

[Fark user image image 768x432]

Not all of the gender words have an X though, so they're mixing it up.


Just the one that refers to a human being.
 
2020-10-01 1:43:52 PM  

Corn_Fed: Using "Latinx" is about the most Anglo-splaining imperialism I can imagine anyone doing. It's white anglo English speakers forcibly imposing their own gender-neutrality values onto a Romance language in which gendered words are an integral and irreplaceable component.


Have you actually looked up the origin of the term? I don't see any white people involved with it.
 
2020-10-01 1:45:05 PM  
cdn.facilityexecutive.comView Full Size

Wow! A whole threadful of people who want to tell me what words I can use to talk about myself and erase my gender identity and/or ethnicity!

Yes, it looks weird to native speakers. No, that does not disqualify a word. I have seen bilingual people around me almost universally adopt "bacon" instead of the word they tried to teach me in high school Spanish, "tocino," and decide that despite the English origin and lack of gendered suffix, "bacon" is male. "Hey, da me un bacon." Nobody is in here crying about how a bunch of white people forced us to say "bacon" and it's either racist or "woke."

What we have here is not a debate among linguistic scholars who demand grammatical purity (which does not exist in any language), but a combination of a desire not to learn new ways to respect people and total gender panic. Nonbinary people are a minority, but we'd like the same respect for our identity that the majority gets. Like we don't tell people, "I don't have to acknowledge you're a Yaqui because there aren't very many of them."

I prefer the "x" suffix at the moment, but I don't use the damn thing in mixed company because if I do the whole conversation is going to become about the "x" suffix. People have extremely strong feelings about gender neutral grammar in this context! Apparently having to go a couple inches out of your way on a keyboard to hit a different letter and pronounce this letter instead of a vowel sound is some kinda threat.

It's pronounced Latin-ecks, and the letter functions as a blank or placeholder. You may also use Chicanx or similar if the spirit moves you. If you have a better grammatical fix for misgendering folks on the regular, please start using it and see if it gains any traction.

Of course we don't need gender neutral language any more than we need a grammatical gender in language. We are using a structure which has evolved over time and it will continue to evolve. If you do not wish to participate in the evolution of language, your new grammatical format will be chosen for you.

Nonbinary people exist. People with Latin-American heritage exist. We're not going away because it's inconvenient. We're not all going to agree on how best to talk about ourselves, and it may change. You may have to learn many new words over the course of your life - I know, that's super hard. But we exist! Because we exist, we need words for us. And people get to pick how they talk about themselves.

Now da me un farking bacon.
 
2020-10-01 1:45:36 PM  

Corn_Fed: deadsanta: There's a "Latinx" host on NPR who just drives me nuts every afternoon the way she virtue-signals her race and cultural sensitivity every minute. Can't recall her name, but she has a classic "news accent" right up until she hits a Spanish word/name/place and then she shifts into almost a parody of a Latina delivery to speak just that one word, before shifting back to newsspeak.  It makes me clench.

God, I see that all the time from various local news anchors. It bugs the hell out of me.


You'd prefer a more Anglo pronunciation?
 
2020-10-01 1:46:29 PM  

gar1013: orbister: waxbeans: My point I don't understand why Spanish is used after Spain is kicked out of the area.

Same reason you're not writing in Navaho.

[64.media.tumblr.com image 268x300] [View Full Size image _x_]


I always think of this bit.

"Hey, Chavez, how come they ain't killing us?"
"Because we're in the spirit world, asshole. They can't see us."
 
2020-10-01 1:47:36 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: Outside of America, I've never heard a single "OMG SPANISH IS SEXIST" from anyone.

La Gramática Castellana es Machista

[brevidad]

So...you mean a conservative Catholic country would colloquially refer to women as sluts?

I'm pretty sure the youth don't consider every single Mujer de Vida a "Puta"

Jesus Christ man.

You only annoy people by intentionally missing the point.

And I'm pretty sure the complete expression is "mujer de la vida allegre", which does indeed mean a lady of the night, though there's nothing allegre about being one.


It's not the language that is sexist. It is the colloquial application of connotation.

And if you know anything about the Spanish language, you'll know that the same word can have wildly different meanings or varying wildly levels of offensiveness.

See Chilean/Argentinian curses utilized by both men and women:

¡Concha su madre!

¡La puta que te parió!
 
2020-10-01 1:49:52 PM  
According to Mother Jones and Merriam-Webster, Latinx offers an alternative to the gender binaries inherent to the formulations Latina/o and Latin@.[18​][15] Yara Simón writes in Remezcla that Latinx allows those who do not identify within the gender binary to be seen and accepted by getting rid of the gendered ending of Latina/o. [23] Some commentators, such as Ed Morales, a lecturer at Columbia University and author of the 2018 book Latinx: The New Force in American Politics and Culture, associate the term with the ideas of Gloria Anzaldúa, a Chicana feminist. Morales writes that "refusal to conform to male/female gender binaries" parallels "the refusal to conform to a racial binary".[18]:61
Jeffrey Herlihy-Mera calls Latinx "a recognition of the exclusionary nature of our institutions, of the deficiencies in existent linguistic structures, and of language as an agent of social change", saying, "The gesture toward linguistic intersectionality stems from a suffix endowed with a literal intersection - x."[4]
Use of x to expand language can be traced to the word Chicano, which had an x added to the front of the word, making it Xicano. Scholars have identified this shift as part of the movement to empower people of Mexican origin in the U.S. and also as a means of emphasizing that the origins of the letter X and term Chicano are linked to the Indigenous Nahuatl language.[17][24] The x has also been added to the end of the term Chicano, making it Chicanx. An example of this occurred at Columbia University where students changed their student group name from "Chicano Caucus" to "Chicanx Caucus". Later Columbia University changed the name of Latino Heritage Month to Latinx Hispanic Heritage Month.[17] Salinas and Lozano (2017) state that the term is influenced by Mexican indigenous communities that have a third gender role, such as Juchitán de Zaragoza, Oaxaca (see also: Gender system § Juchitán, Oaxaca, Mexico).[21]



Look at all of these 18 year old white girls trying to make people use latinx
 
2020-10-01 1:50:24 PM  

JAGChem82: Latinwolf: chozo13: The only people who use the term 'Latinx', are those to which the term doesn't apply.

Indeed, much like the term "POC" is not used by actual people of color.

Unfortunately, it is. Mainly amongst the intellectual/professorial crowd of black and Latinos with white liberals - the type that gravitate to MSNBC and the like.


Funny I have yet to come across a person of color actually using that term and I've been around professionals, just not around the ones that grew up with and mostly associate with white folks.
 
2020-10-01 1:51:34 PM  
Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.
 
2020-10-01 1:55:07 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

[Fark user image image 768x432]

Not all of the gender words have an X though, so they're mixing it up.

Just the one that refers to a human being.


False:

The "nos" refers to the people holding the sign or those people being killed

The "las" refers to the person (2nd person molestar, conditional?) the people holding the sign are apologizing to for bothering

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-10-01 1:57:49 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.


When did this part happen?
 
2020-10-01 2:00:35 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?


On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?
 
2020-10-01 2:03:30 PM  

ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?

On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?


I'm sure you have numerous examples of white people calling Latin/Hispanic/Spanish speaking people racist because they choose to not use latinx.

My bet is that you've internalized your cartoonish take on campus life to the point where you actually believe it.
 
2020-10-01 2:06:55 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: whidbey: And another white person telling hispanics who they "really" are and how they're idiots if they don't pick a white-approved categorization.

People are "funnying" your posts because you're kinda doing this exact thing.

Can you please not tell me what my experience is? Thanks.


No, they're doing it because they're bigots.  I understand what the word means, and I respect it.

Don't be one, ok?
 
2020-10-01 2:07:19 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?

On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?

I'm sure you have numerous examples of white people calling Latin/Hispanic/Spanish speaking people racist because they choose to not use latinx.

My bet is that you've internalized your cartoonish take on campus life to the point where you actually believe it.


People seem to think I'm a Boomer who never went to college and never had Latinx explained to me by a professor in class, but you go on thinking what you think.
 
2020-10-01 2:08:04 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: [cdn.facilityexecutive.com image 503x300]
Wow! A whole threadful of people who want to tell me what words I can use to talk about myself and erase my gender identity and/or ethnicity!

Yes, it looks weird to native speakers. No, that does not disqualify a word. I have seen bilingual people around me almost universally adopt "bacon" instead of the word they tried to teach me in high school Spanish, "tocino," and decide that despite the English origin and lack of gendered suffix, "bacon" is male. "Hey, da me un bacon." Nobody is in here crying about how a bunch of white people forced us to say "bacon" and it's either racist or "woke."

What we have here is not a debate among linguistic scholars who demand grammatical purity (which does not exist in any language), but a combination of a desire not to learn new ways to respect people and total gender panic. Nonbinary people are a minority, but we'd like the same respect for our identity that the majority gets. Like we don't tell people, "I don't have to acknowledge you're a Yaqui because there aren't very many of them."

I prefer the "x" suffix at the moment, but I don't use the damn thing in mixed company because if I do the whole conversation is going to become about the "x" suffix. People have extremely strong feelings about gender neutral grammar in this context! Apparently having to go a couple inches out of your way on a keyboard to hit a different letter and pronounce this letter instead of a vowel sound is some kinda threat.

It's pronounced Latin-ecks, and the letter functions as a blank or placeholder. You may also use Chicanx or similar if the spirit moves you. If you have a better grammatical fix for misgendering folks on the regular, please start using it and see if it gains any traction.

Of course we don't need gender neutral language any more than we need a grammatical gender in language. We are using a structure which has evolved over time and it will continue to evolve. If you do not wish to participate in the evolution of language, your new grammatical format will be chosen for you.

Nonbinary people exist. People with Latin-American heritage exist. We're not going away because it's inconvenient. We're not all going to agree on how best to talk about ourselves, and it may change. You may have to learn many new words over the course of your life - I know, that's super hard. But we exist! Because we exist, we need words for us. And people get to pick how they talk about themselves.

Now da me un farking bacon.


Can we get you a copy editx so that we can get that screed pared down to something shorter than the Gettysburg Address?
 
2020-10-01 2:09:26 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.


Have you read the thread? Show me the white people who are demanding I use "x" and like it. I am also not seeing a lot of people asking me what I'd like to be called. I am seeing folks saying we don't even need the word "nonbinary" and that anyone who says "I'm Latinx" is a token, or not of Latin-American heritage. And some surprising irritation that people who know how Spanish words are pronounced have the GALL to pronounce them that way on the news. Oh, and Danny Trejo, of all people, trying to police my use of "Hispanic" and "Mexican."

Some of us use X! "Nonbinary" is not a designation that exists entirely outside of "Latino." Would it kill ya to write Latino/a/x? If some of us don't like it, they don't have to call themselves that! But I'd like the option for myself, thanks. Unless you've got something better.
 
2020-10-01 2:09:56 PM  

ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?

On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?

I'm sure you have numerous examples of white people calling Latin/Hispanic/Spanish speaking people racist because they choose to not use latinx.

My bet is that you've internalized your cartoonish take on campus life to the point where you actually believe it.

People seem to think I'm a Boomer who never went to college and never had Latinx explained to me by a professor in class, but you go on thinking what you think.


I think you repeat memetic nonsense that you learned from right wing media. Do you think that this is some original take that anyone would believe you came to on your own?
 
2020-10-01 2:11:26 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?

On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?

I'm sure you have numerous examples of white people calling Latin/Hispanic/Spanish speaking people racist because they choose to not use latinx.

My bet is that you've internalized your cartoonish take on campus life to the point where you actually believe it.

People seem to think I'm a Boomer who never went to college and never had Latinx explained to me by a professor in class, but you go on thinking what you think.

I think you repeat memetic nonsense that you learned from right wing media. Do you think that this is some original take that anyone would believe you came to on your own?


Well, considering the professor who explained it to me wasn't Latino...
 
2020-10-01 2:11:30 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.


Life is easier if you just refer to everyone as pendejo.

That way, you're according everyone equal respect.
 
2020-10-01 2:13:00 PM  

gar1013: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

Life is easier if you just refer to everyone as pendejo.

That way, you're according everyone equal respect.


Pendejx
 
2020-10-01 2:14:17 PM  
There it is again.

Two more bigots who can't handle the word "latinix."

F*ck you, seriously.
 
2020-10-01 2:14:52 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Haven't you guys had enough of these ivory tower liberals? I came up with that on my own.
 
2020-10-01 2:16:20 PM  

gar1013: DoBeDoBeLurk: [cdn.facilityexecutive.com image 503x300]
Wow! A whole threadful of people who want to tell me what words I can use to talk about myself and erase my gender identity and/or ethnicity!

Yes, it looks weird to native speakers. No, that does not disqualify a word. I have seen bilingual people around me almost universally adopt "bacon" instead of the word they tried to teach me in high school Spanish, "tocino," and decide that despite the English origin and lack of gendered suffix, "bacon" is male. "Hey, da me un bacon." Nobody is in here crying about how a bunch of white people forced us to say "bacon" and it's either racist or "woke."

What we have here is not a debate among linguistic scholars who demand grammatical purity (which does not exist in any language), but a combination of a desire not to learn new ways to respect people and total gender panic. Nonbinary people are a minority, but we'd like the same respect for our identity that the majority gets. Like we don't tell people, "I don't have to acknowledge you're a Yaqui because there aren't very many of them."

I prefer the "x" suffix at the moment, but I don't use the damn thing in mixed company because if I do the whole conversation is going to become about the "x" suffix. People have extremely strong feelings about gender neutral grammar in this context! Apparently having to go a couple inches out of your way on a keyboard to hit a different letter and pronounce this letter instead of a vowel sound is some kinda threat.

It's pronounced Latin-ecks, and the letter functions as a blank or placeholder. You may also use Chicanx or similar if the spirit moves you. If you have a better grammatical fix for misgendering folks on the regular, please start using it and see if it gains any traction.

Of course we don't need gender neutral language any more than we need a grammatical gender in language. We are using a structure which has evolved over time and it will continue to evolve. If you do not wish ...


Thanks for letting us all know you came to a thread on a message board and feel put upon for being asked to read words! How dare I!

If you need a shorter format, may I suggest Twitter? Or GIS?
media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-10-01 2:17:09 PM  

ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: ColonelCathcart: HotWingConspiracy: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

When did this part happen?

On College campuses filled with ivory tower liberals?

I'm sure you have numerous examples of white people calling Latin/Hispanic/Spanish speaking people racist because they choose to not use latinx.

My bet is that you've internalized your cartoonish take on campus life to the point where you actually believe it.

People seem to think I'm a Boomer who never went to college and never had Latinx explained to me by a professor in class, but you go on thinking what you think.

I think you repeat memetic nonsense that you learned from right wing media. Do you think that this is some original take that anyone would believe you came to on your own?

Well, considering the professor who explained it to me wasn't Latino...


This is right wing porn
 
2020-10-01 2:18:41 PM  

ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

[Fark user image image 768x432]

Not all of the gender words have an X though, so they're mixing it up.

Just the one that refers to a human being.

False:

The "nos" refers to the people holding the sign or those people being killed

The "las" refers to the person (2nd person molestar, conditional?) the people holding the sign are apologizing to for bothering

[Fark user image 346x750]


[price-is-right-fail-horn.mp3]

"Nos" is invariable. "Las" is feminine because "molestias" is feminine. "Pardon the disturbance. They are killing us. Not one more!"
 
2020-10-01 2:18:52 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: [cdn.facilityexecutive.com image 503x300]
Wow! A whole threadful of people who want to tell me what words I can use to talk about myself and erase my gender identity and/or ethnicity!

Yes, it looks weird to native speakers. No, that does not disqualify a word. I have seen bilingual people around me almost universally adopt "bacon" instead of the word they tried to teach me in high school Spanish, "tocino," and decide that despite the English origin and lack of gendered suffix, "bacon" is male. "Hey, da me un bacon." Nobody is in here crying about how a bunch of white people forced us to say "bacon" and it's either racist or "woke."

What we have here is not a debate among linguistic scholars who demand grammatical purity (which does not exist in any language), but a combination of a desire not to learn new ways to respect people and total gender panic. Nonbinary people are a minority, but we'd like the same respect for our identity that the majority gets. Like we don't tell people, "I don't have to acknowledge you're a Yaqui because there aren't very many of them."

I prefer the "x" suffix at the moment, but I don't use the damn thing in mixed company because if I do the whole conversation is going to become about the "x" suffix. People have extremely strong feelings about gender neutral grammar in this context! Apparently having to go a couple inches out of your way on a keyboard to hit a different letter and pronounce this letter instead of a vowel sound is some kinda threat.

It's pronounced Latin-ecks, and the letter functions as a blank or placeholder. You may also use Chicanx or similar if the spirit moves you. If you have a better grammatical fix for misgendering folks on the regular, please start using it and see if it gains any traction.

Of course we don't need gender neutral language any more than we need a grammatical gender in language. We are using a structure which has evolved over time and it will continue to evolve. If you do not wish to participat ...


That's not happening here.  Use your own words.  There is no need to change the words for the other 99.4%
Demographics

it's a beautiful language that binds the diverse parts of Latin-American culture together when most of everything else changes.

Also, the Spanish were kicked out of Latin America like the British were kicked out or North America.  They weren't   Simón Bolívar was of European ancestry, and influenced by the Enlightenment.   He wasn't  unique
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard​o​_O%27Higgins

Some are more Indio, but Mestizo, Olive skinned Euros, and Blancos are in the mix as well.  It's a mix of old and new.   The countries gained Independence, but the Spanish culture is flows throughout it as well.   It's the glue that holds it together when there was intertribal warfare before.

Languages do evolve, but it a natural process, but you're applying linguistic eugenics.   The question is, do you speak Spanish as a native speaker?
 
2020-10-01 2:18:55 PM  
This strikes me as a fairly strange thing to be outraged about.  Call people what they want to be called, it's not an affront to your way of life, it's just a letter.  Chill out, Fark.com.
 
2020-10-01 2:19:53 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


X's are used to show drunkenness, being high, stupidity.
 
2020-10-01 2:25:51 PM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: ColonelCathcart: The Reverend Sam Hill: I found this while looking for the above list. It's in Spanish, if you can read it, about the X and the @ used for gender-neutral Spanish. It seems that some Spanish speakers do use the X, to the displeasure of the pundits:

[Fark user image image 768x432]

Not all of the gender words have an X though, so they're mixing it up.

Just the one that refers to a human being.

False:

The "nos" refers to the people holding the sign or those people being killed

The "las" refers to the person (2nd person molestar, conditional?) the people holding the sign are apologizing to for bothering

[Fark user image 346x750]

[price-is-right-fail-horn.mp3]

"Nos" is invariable. "Las" is feminine because "molestias" is feminine. "Pardon the disturbance. They are killing us. Not one more!"


Molestar isn't feminine? When did verbs get gender in Spanish?
 
2020-10-01 2:35:40 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: That's not happening here.  Use your own words.  There is no need to change the words for the other 99.4%
Demographics

it's a beautiful language that binds the diverse parts of Latin-American culture together when most of everything else changes.

Also, the Spanish were kicked out of Latin America like the British were kicked out or North America.  They weren't   Simón Bolívar was of European ancestry, and influenced by the Enlightenment.   He wasn't  unique
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo​_O%27Higgins

Some are more Indio, but Mestizo, Olive skinned Euros, and Blancos are in the mix as well.  It's a mix of old and new.   The countries gained Independence, but the Spanish culture is flows throughout it as well.   It's the glue that holds it together when there was intertribal warfare before.

Languages do evolve, but it a natural process, but you're applying linguistic eugenics.   The question is, do you speak Spanish as a native speaker?


I'm not a native speaker. And? I'm not asking you to use my words to talk about you, I'm asking you to include me when you talk about us. So, yes, I would like to see a "/x" on forms, and I would like not to be excluded on the basis that I was born in the US and went to English-speaking schools. WTF is the matter with you? You're talking about me using language eugenics when you're after a linguistic race purity that's unattainable.

I'm part of the natural process - I use language!

Language is not frozen and non-native speakers will use it. That's how we get pidgins and creoles. That's how the Romance languages diverged from Latin in the first place. That's how we got Spanglish. That's how a white man in Minnesota knows what a chimichanga is, even if he pronounces it weird. "Chimichanga" wasn't even a real word - but it works fine as one now!

You know, I have seen actual college professors and students on FARK, and so far none of them have rolled up to tell any of y'all that you need to use "Latinx" or you're racist. Still seeing lots of people who seem to think my asking to be included is going to HURT you somehow.
 
2020-10-01 2:35:45 PM  

Latinwolf: JAGChem82: Latinwolf: chozo13: The only people who use the term 'Latinx', are those to which the term doesn't apply.

Indeed, much like the term "POC" is not used by actual people of color.

Unfortunately, it is. Mainly amongst the intellectual/professorial crowd of black and Latinos with white liberals - the type that gravitate to MSNBC and the like.

Funny I have yet to come across a person of color actually using that term and I've been around professionals, just not around the ones that grew up with and mostly associate with white folks.


You've never heard any black or Latino pol on TV mention the phrase "people of color?"

It's not vernacular that's used on the street all that often, but in more academic/professional settings? All the time, along with "BIPOC" as well.
 
2020-10-01 2:36:47 PM  
Its supposedly used only in English and not in Spanish

iat would make more sense to use Latins (pronounced "La-teens"). Or if ya really want to keep a sense of exoticness, Latíns.
 
2020-10-01 2:41:32 PM  

cman: Its supposedly used only in English and not in Spanish

iat
would make more sense to use Latins (pronounced "La-teens"). Or if ya really want to keep a sense of exoticness, Latíns.


DAMN I got filter pwned
 
2020-10-01 2:41:53 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: Needlessly Complicated: Let me summarize this and every argument about Latinx:

White people: "Latinx" was created by Latinos themselves and non-binary people.
Latinos: Most Latinos don't use this, a lot don't like it. It's fine if non-binary people or others want to use it, though.
White people: We will call all of you Latinx and you'll like it! If you don't like it, you're the racist!
Latinos: ....

Can I suggest something? Just ask the person you're talking to what they would like to be called. You aren't being "woke" or "respectful" assuming stuff about a large number of people.

Have you read the thread? Show me the white people who are demanding I use "x" and like it. I am also not seeing a lot of people asking me what I'd like to be called. I am seeing folks saying we don't even need the word "nonbinary" and that anyone who says "I'm Latinx" is a token, or not of Latin-American heritage. And some surprising irritation that people who know how Spanish words are pronounced have the GALL to pronounce them that way on the news. Oh, and Danny Trejo, of all people, trying to police my use of "Hispanic" and "Mexican."

Some of us use X! "Nonbinary" is not a designation that exists entirely outside of "Latino." Would it kill ya to write Latino/a/x? If some of us don't like it, they don't have to call themselves that! But I'd like the option for myself, thanks. Unless you've got something better.


Well, that whidbey guy, for example. He calling eeeeerrryone a bigot up in here. He doesn't speak for me, he's not standing up for me (or anyone, really) and I don't think he's being respectful.

Did you read the thread yourself? What I'm saying and what I've always said is that if you like and want to use Latinx, feel free! Just, maybe, can we accept that not every person of Latin American origin necessarily accepts/likes/recognizes or even knows that term. You have a preference of what you like to be called and I respect that (and will note for future reference), I'm just asking for the same respect. I don't like Latinx, I would like to be called Latina, if I must be referred to by ethnic background.

And, no, people aren't asking what people like to be called, and it's a problem. I think asking or telling what your preference is is really the best way to handle things, like with people's pronouns. Then again, I'm cis-het so my experience is different than yours. So feel free to disagree.
 
2020-10-01 2:47:25 PM  

ColonelCathcart: Molestar isn't feminine? When did verbs get gender in Spanish?


"Disturbance" vs. "to disturb." It's not a reflexive verb, that doesn't make any sense in context and it's not a verb form. "Pardon bother the females." Protest signs aren't always perfect, but that's obviously supposed to be "Pardon the (multiple instances of) disturbance." "Nos" means "us" and is the same for both genders, formal and informal - unless there's a different dialect somewhere I'm unaware of. Google will explain this stuff for you if you need.
 
2020-10-01 2:47:43 PM  

deadsanta: There's a "Latinx" host on NPR who just drives me nuts every afternoon the way she virtue-signals her race and cultural sensitivity every minute. Can't recall her name, but she has a classic "news accent" right up until she hits a Spanish word/name/place and then she shifts into almost a parody of a Latina delivery to speak just that one word, before shifting back to newsspeak.  It makes me clench.


There used to be a BBC Radio 3 (classical music) host who would do this with Welsh. An impeccable BBC accent for "Tonight's performance is Beethoven's fifth symphony played by the BBC Concert Orchestra conducted by" <change of gear> "Owain Arrrrrrrrwell Hughes (look you)". I thought it was funny, but then I am not Welsh. Perhaps Welsh people thought it was funny too.
 
2020-10-01 2:49:42 PM  

montreal_medic: I think that only a language like English would think that gendered words are part of a "patriarchal problem"

My Spanish is weak, but I speak French fluently. French also has gendered words, which frankly make very little sense when you think about them.

Why does a chair or a table need a gender? Why is the real word for a car (automobile) feminine while the quebecois slang (char) is masculine?



Norse also has a neuter gender for inanimate objects, but if I remember correctly, it's also a language where the "gender" isn't about reproductive anatomy, it's about strong or weak.  So if you were to blindly translate it, a queen or female warrior is a "he" and a small boy or old man is a "she".
 
2020-10-01 2:57:25 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: ColonelCathcart: Molestar isn't feminine? When did verbs get gender in Spanish?

"Disturbance" vs. "to disturb." It's not a reflexive verb, that doesn't make any sense in context and it's not a verb form. "Pardon bother the females." Protest signs aren't always perfect, but that's obviously supposed to be "Pardon the (multiple instances of) disturbance." "Nos" means "us" and is the same for both genders, formal and informal - unless there's a different dialect somewhere I'm unaware of. Google will explain this stuff for you if you need.


"molestia" (a bother) = noun form of the verb "molestar" (to bother)

As such, this noun is gendered ("la/una molestia").
 
2020-10-01 3:00:07 PM  
Some people think too much about gender.
 
2020-10-01 3:08:43 PM  
An awful lot of strawpeople are being slaughtered this thread.
 
2020-10-01 3:14:12 PM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: ...

Some of us use X! "Nonbinary" is not a designation that exists entirely outside of "Latino." Would it kill ya to write Latino/a/x? If some of us don't like it, they don't have to call themselves that! But I'd like the option for myself, thanks. Unless you've got something better.


So once again, what is wrong with using the word "Latin"?
 
2020-10-01 3:15:14 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: vudukungfu: Pretty sure only people that say "EESpaneesh" understand it.

In America, they keep inventing racial terms.


Or as Richard Pryor said:
"Well, I took a trip to Africa - which, by the way, is where I plan to live some day. I went to Kenya, and while I was there something inside of me said, "Look around you, Richard. What do you see? I saw people. African people. I saw people from other countries, too, and they were all kinds of colors, but I didn't see any 'ni@@ers.' I didn't see any there because There are no 'ni@@ers' in Africa."

Think about it.

America makes up stupid names for people because, we can't just all be on the same team now, can we?

I don't think you got the joke.


I prefer the one about shooting craps.
 
2020-10-01 3:16:56 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: DoBeDoBeLurk: ColonelCathcart: Molestar isn't feminine? When did verbs get gender in Spanish?

"Disturbance" vs. "to disturb." It's not a reflexive verb, that doesn't make any sense in context and it's not a verb form. "Pardon bother the females." Protest signs aren't always perfect, but that's obviously supposed to be "Pardon the (multiple instances of) disturbance." "Nos" means "us" and is the same for both genders, formal and informal - unless there's a different dialect somewhere I'm unaware of. Google will explain this stuff for you if you need.

"molestia" (a bother) = noun form of the verb "molestar" (to bother)

As such, this noun is gendered ("la/una molestia").


But the las here refers to a reflexive verb and applies a gender to the people on which the action is being committed.

That was my beef with Rev'
 
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