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(Guardian)   The Law of Unforeseen Consequences: dual flush toilets waste much more water than they save   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Toilet, Plumbing, Valve, Water, Leak, dual-flush toilets, Flush toilet, UK's largest water firm  
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1048 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Sep 2020 at 5:26 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-29 2:10:38 PM  
The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.
 
2020-09-29 2:55:47 PM  

Joe USer: The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.


This is a UK article. The only design that can leak are the new low water dual flush systems. The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.

/And they use less water, so often you have to flush twice, so using more water....
 
2020-09-29 5:35:44 PM  
Japanese toilets have a flush lever  that gives the a choice of a large flush or a small one. Their government trusts them to make the correct choice by them selves.

However in America, you are assumed to be too stupid.
 
2020-09-29 5:39:22 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.


Yeah, I'd never even heard about the siphon system until today. I think with the tiniest bit of education people might be able to understand that if they hear water continuing to run they should look in the reservoir at the stopper.
 
2020-09-29 5:57:50 PM  
More moving parts = more chances for something to fail.
 
2020-09-29 5:58:51 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Joe USer: The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.

This is a UK article. The only design that can leak are the new low water dual flush systems. The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.

/And they use less water, so often you have to flush twice, so using more water....



What do you mean "runaway" toilet?  US toilets are basically this design:
toilethaven.comView Full Size


I understand that the dual-flush ones have the button on top rather than the lever, but other than that, I don't know much about them.

CSB:  I saw my first dual-flush in Greece about 15 years ago.  The hotel left a spare roll of toilet paper sitting on top of the tank, hiding the button.  I dropped a gyro, calamari, and Mythos fueled duece in the bowl, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to flush it.  I saw a pull-cord from the ceiling and thought, "well, this must be it."

Cue the very concerned hotel staff member banging on the door because I pulled the emergency cord, and me standing next to my proud mountain of shiat like an idiot. Of course, since there's almost no water in the bowls there, it was piled up in the bowl, like a volcanic island emerging from the sea, and reeked like a skunk's ass.

/when I saw the "I'm disabled" bit in the theater episode of the IT Crowd, I started laughing so hard I couldn't breathe.
 
2020-09-29 5:58:59 PM  

Hachitori: Japanese toilets have a flush lever  that gives the a choice of a large flush or a small one. Their government trusts them to make the correct choice by them selves.

However in America, you are assumed to be too stupid.


Oddly enough I've had toilets like this - in the USA - for over 20 years.
 
2020-09-29 6:04:55 PM  
I have a low flush toilet. It uses more water due to:

1) Requiring at least 2 flushes for #2
2) Clogging about 25% of the time, necessitating multiple flushes to clear it out
 
2020-09-29 6:08:33 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: . The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can.


Sure they can. ...After a few years, or defending on water hardness.

The thing is, for the old style, it's a 10£ part and an hour of time at most. Certainly a bit different than these new toilets.
 
2020-09-29 6:11:23 PM  

puffy999: defending


depending

/no need for those yet
 
2020-09-29 6:20:40 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Joe USer: The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.

This is a UK article. The only design that can leak are the new low water dual flush systems. The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.

/And they use less water, so often you have to flush twice, so using more water....


It's still a design flaw. There are other designs for #1 vs #2 flushing that don't leak. Use those.
 
mgh [TotalFark]
2020-09-29 6:21:53 PM  
In the US, I have low water usage toilets and they work great.  I think I've only ever had to 'plunge' due to a clog once in the last 15 years, but yet I've got friends that complain their toilets don't work right.  Turns out their (higher then modern no-flush) were just bad designs.  I helped them replace their toilets and they are convinced the new ones are magic.

The key is to not buy the $99 toilet, but buy the $105 toilet.  It's amazing how much better then extra $5 makes the thing run.

With that said, I've had to replace the flushing internals once on each toilet in 15 years.  It's not that difficult to go "hey it sounds like it's running and nobody has been in here in the last 5 minutes".. Go onto Amazon, and buy the $20 replacement kit.. follow the instructions and just replace the interior parts.
 
2020-09-29 6:25:11 PM  

Izunbacol: Carter Pewterschmidt: Joe USer: The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.

This is a UK article. The only design that can leak are the new low water dual flush systems. The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.

/And they use less water, so often you have to flush twice, so using more water....


What do you mean "runaway" toilet?  US toilets are basically this design:
[toilethaven.com image 840x718]

I understand that the dual-flush ones have the button on top rather than the lever, but other than that, I don't know much about them.

CSB:  I saw my first dual-flush in Greece about 15 years ago.  The hotel left a spare roll of toilet paper sitting on top of the tank, hiding the button.  I dropped a gyro, calamari, and Mythos fueled duece in the bowl, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to flush it.  I saw a pull-cord from the ceiling and thought, "well, this must be it."

Cue the very concerned hotel staff member banging on the door because I pulled the emergency cord, and me standing next to my proud mountain of shiat like an idiot. Of course, since there's almost no water in the bowls there, it was piled up in the bowl, like a volcanic island emerging from the sea, and reeked like a skunk's ass.

/when I saw the "I'm disabled" bit in the theater episode of the IT Crowd, I started laughing so hard I couldn't breathe.


I do recall that European toilets' bowls are generally empty of any water. Here in the US, the bowl has some amount of water in it. I think that's primarily to hide the smell. When the poop goes into the water, the smell doesn't get out. Of course, if your poop exceeds the height of the water, it'll stink like any other POS.
 
2020-09-29 6:46:03 PM  

Hachitori: Japanese toilets have a flush lever  that gives the a choice of a large flush or a small one. Their government trusts them to make the correct choice by them selves.

However in America, you are assumed to be too stupid.


Seems like a fair assumption...
 
2020-09-29 6:57:25 PM  

Izunbacol: What do you mean "runaway" toilet?  US toilets are basically this design:


Maybe "running toilet" is the correct phrase? UK toilets are totally different. That US design has a hole in the base of the cistern with a flap/seal/valve whatever stopping the water falling out. UK toilets have a pipe that goes up and around a U bend, with the handle working a plunger that pushes water up that pipe, and the syphon effect pulls the rest of the tank with it. In the US design if that flap/seal wears out, breaks, doesn't sit properly water just carries on falling out. That simply cannot happen with the (old) UK design. Water won't flow up by itself. I've seen lots of running toilets in the US and Canada. Until these new low water toilets started appearing in the UK I had never seen a running toilet in the UK. This is why the UK models you have to give the handle a solid push with some effort behind it, rather than the new models where you press a button with one finger. The UK models you were physically pumping half a gallon of water up a pipe.

puffy999: Sure they can. ...After a few years, or defending on water hardness.


No, they can't. See answer above. Unless you can get a trickle of water to flow up a pipe of course.

Even if the inlet valve wears out, or is incorrectly adjusted, water doesn't flow into the bowl. In the UK design overflow water runs into a pipe that goes through the wall and outside.

dericwater: I do recall that European toilets' bowls are generally empty of any water. Here in the US, the bowl has some amount of water in it. I think that's primarily to hide the smell. When the poop goes into the water, the smell doesn't get out. Of course, if your poop exceeds the height of the water, it'll stink like any other POS.


In the UK there is water, but it is deep but only a fairly narrow diameter. In the US it is almost the entire width of the bowl.
A quick image search.
UK.
Fark user imageView Full Size


US
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-29 7:38:04 PM  
I can't hear about low flow toilets without thinking about Hank and Peggy Hill.
 
2020-09-29 8:53:58 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Izunbacol: What do you mean "runaway" toilet?  US toilets are basically this design:

Maybe "running toilet" is the correct phrase? UK toilets are totally different. That US design has a hole in the base of the cistern with a flap/seal/valve whatever stopping the water falling out. UK toilets have a pipe that goes up and around a U bend, with the handle working a plunger that pushes water up that pipe, and the syphon effect pulls the rest of the tank with it. In the US design if that flap/seal wears out, breaks, doesn't sit properly water just carries on falling out. That simply cannot happen with the (old) UK design. Water won't flow up by itself. I've seen lots of running toilets in the US and Canada. Until these new low water toilets started appearing in the UK I had never seen a running toilet in the UK. This is why the UK models you have to give the handle a solid push with some effort behind it, rather than the new models where you press a button with one finger. The UK models you were physically pumping half a gallon of water up a pipe.

puffy999: Sure they can. ...After a few years, or defending on water hardness.

No, they can't. See answer above. Unless you can get a trickle of water to flow up a pipe of course.

Even if the inlet valve wears out, or is incorrectly adjusted, water doesn't flow into the bowl. In the UK design overflow water runs into a pipe that goes through the wall and outside.

dericwater: I do recall that European toilets' bowls are generally empty of any water. Here in the US, the bowl has some amount of water in it. I think that's primarily to hide the smell. When the poop goes into the water, the smell doesn't get out. Of course, if your poop exceeds the height of the water, it'll stink like any other POS.

In the UK there is water, but it is deep but only a fairly narrow diameter. In the US it is almost the entire width of the bowl.
A quick image search.
UK.
[Fark user image image 850x446]

US
[Fark user image image 850x478]


This is one of our three crappers, but they're all the same (installed in 2017).  There's not much water in the bowl.
Fark user imageView Full Size


That pic looks like a really old toilet.  I haven't seen those in a while, unless it's a house or apartment with old fixtures.

/like many Americans, I discovered bidets in the great toilet paper shortage of 2020.
 
2020-09-29 11:14:31 PM  

trialpha: I have a low flush toilet. It uses more water due to:

1) Requiring at least 2 flushes for #2
2) Clogging about 25% of the time, necessitating multiple flushes to clear it out


I have a low flush toilet. It has worked flawlessly for 18 years. I don't recall ever flushing it twice. You need to clear out your toilet vent. It is probably clogged a bit which prevents the existing water to rapidly exit.
 
2020-09-29 11:22:21 PM  

trialpha: I have a low flush toilet. It uses more water due to:

1) Requiring at least 2 flushes for #2
2) Clogging about 25% of the time, necessitating multiple flushes to clear it out


Add to that clogged sewer pipes .. not enough water flow to carry the waste, and it just piles up in the pipe...Roto-Rooter has been making good bank lately...
 
2020-09-30 3:48:24 AM  

Hachitori: Japanese toilets have a flush lever  that gives the a choice of a large flush or a small one. Their government trusts them to make the correct choice by them selves.

However in America, you are assumed to be too stupid.


Have you met Americans?
 
2020-09-30 4:45:47 AM  

Izunbacol: Carter Pewterschmidt: Joe USer: The law of poorly written headlines.

Toilets with design flaws can leak more.

This is a UK article. The only design that can leak are the new low water dual flush systems. The previous design, used in the UK for a century or more, cannot 'runaway' and use water continuously the way these new designs can. I was twenty and visited North America the first time I ever saw a runaway toilet and was fascinated. They just didn't exist in the UK.

/And they use less water, so often you have to flush twice, so using more water....


What do you mean "runaway" toilet?  US toilets are basically this design:
[toilethaven.com image 840x718]

I understand that the dual-flush ones have the button on top rather than the lever, but other than that, I don't know much about them.

CSB:  I saw my first dual-flush in Greece about 15 years ago.  The hotel left a spare roll of toilet paper sitting on top of the tank, hiding the button.  I dropped a gyro, calamari, and Mythos fueled duece in the bowl, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to flush it.  I saw a pull-cord from the ceiling and thought, "well, this must be it."

Cue the very concerned hotel staff member banging on the door because I pulled the emergency cord, and me standing next to my proud mountain of shiat like an idiot. Of course, since there's almost no water in the bowls there, it was piled up in the bowl, like a volcanic island emerging from the sea, and reeked like a skunk's ass.

/when I saw the "I'm disabled" bit in the theater episode of the IT Crowd, I started laughing so hard I couldn't breathe.


German shelf toilet like typing detected.
 
2020-09-30 2:46:41 PM  
I wonder how many people will use this to argue against low flow designs in the US without realizing this "design flaw" is how basically every US toilet operates.
 
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