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(CNBC)   Airlines can no longer rely on business travelers, so they turn to the consumer economy   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Delta Air Lines, United Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Los Angeles International Airport, Airlines' shift, American Airlines, leisure travelers, half of U.S. airlines  
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889 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Sep 2020 at 3:26 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-09-29 1:41:39 PM  
Whenever I've flown business, the better food and in-flight entertainment were good. The lounge was nice. But the better seat that often leaned back into a bed was amazing. My aching back.

Still, I'm not sure it is worth thousands of dollars more. (International flights.) Only worth it if someone else is paying.
 
2020-09-29 3:32:46 PM  
So I used to have to travel extensively around North America, South East Asia, and Latin America.  COVID gave me a great excuse to knock that crap off.  If it isn't within driving or a train ride (NE US) we are webinaring it forever.

Fark business travel it blows.
 
2020-09-29 3:35:37 PM  
Imagine that. An air industry that gives its customers what they want, instead of just tacking "NO" in front of everything your ticket entitles you to.
 
2020-09-29 3:36:55 PM  
The entire travel industry is in for hard times, whether business or leisure, and I don't know when it'll end.  Certainly not in the next 2 years, maybe not in the next 20.
 
2020-09-29 3:51:37 PM  
I've been saying this to anyone who cares: the days of cheap consumer flights are over.

We're going to spend about 30% of our T&E budget this year. And business is still happening. Zoom, Meet, Webex, Skype, Teams...are going to literally cut business travel in half from now on.

All those business class and last minute bookings that were enabling your $250 flight from EWR to LAX? Half will be gone, and you're going to make up the difference. We're going to make up the difference.

I have family all over the ConUS and some in Europe. Friends it HK I would like to see again sometime. The US I can manage with a camper van, but I think in the future, travel to Europe and Asia is going to be more expensive and take more planning.
 
2020-09-29 4:07:16 PM  
Depending on a collapsing consumer class you mean?  Good luck with that.  If I can barely afford a mortgage I'm certainly not flying around the country (and other countries are still off limits).
 
2020-09-29 4:39:30 PM  
You a-holes treated us like crap 5-6 years ago because you didn't need us. Reap what you sow.
 
Alo
2020-09-29 4:53:51 PM  
I've been saying for years that airlines need to follow theatres new models.  Increase the price, and make the seats big and comfortable.  Make your food and drinks good, and charge a premium for them.  When the seats are comfortable and easy to eat from and not knock someone else's tray off because you slightly moved your elbow to cut the rock hard bread, you'll see people buying it more.  You're going to lose your 'lowest' travellers some, yeah.  Just like the theater's lost their patrons who only could handle the cheapest things.  But people will save up and treat it like a treat instead.  You can still differentiate first class and 'economy' without farking over people's seating.
 
2020-09-29 5:04:11 PM  

bostonguy: Whenever I've flown business, the better food and in-flight entertainment were good. The lounge was nice. But the better seat that often leaned back into a bed was amazing. My aching back.

Still, I'm not sure it is worth thousands of dollars more. (International flights.) Only worth it if someone else is paying.


As I got closer to 50, I found it much harder to fly coach. Sometimes it was inevitable, as I'd be flying with some of my kids and I couldn't leave them in coach while I was in business. Sometimes I booked us all in business class as we didn't want to waste a day falling asleep at 2pm when we got to Europe the following day.

I'm headed to Europe in December on 2 separate occasions and will be flying business on 3 of the 4 flights. I'll suck it up in coach on the way home to save a few $$.
 
2020-09-29 6:17:12 PM  

stellarossa: As I got closer to 50, I found it much harder to fly coach. Sometimes it was inevitable, as I'd be flying with some of my kids and I couldn't leave them in coach while I was in business. Sometimes I booked us all in business class as we didn't want to waste a day falling asleep at 2pm when we got to Europe the following day.

I'm headed to Europe in December on 2 separate occasions and will be flying business on 3 of the 4 flights. I'll suck it up in coach on the way home to save a few $$.


I also hit this point when flying internationally, but it was because after an entire international flight fighting with some jerk manspreading into my space (and pressing against my leg)... never again.

It is nice flying business class, and the one frivolous luxury I give myself when I am frugal everywhere else.

/the looks I get flying international business class with one large backpack and no checked bags is also a hoot.
//I blame the airlines for driving me to this extreme of traveling light, but it is admittedly nice.
 
2020-09-29 7:06:18 PM  
What leisure travelers? Americans are broke and can barely afford rent.
Lowkey, I'm hoping all the legacy carriers finally go bust for good this time and foreign owned airlines are finally allowed to operate in the US market.
/Bye bye crappy United/Delta/Murican
//Hello Emirates
 
2020-09-29 7:57:45 PM  

FrancoFile: The entire travel industry is in for hard times, whether business or leisure, and I don't know when it'll end.  Certainly not in the next 2 years, maybe not in the next 20.


Wrong. They travel industry will have to drop prices, but travel will return.
 
2020-09-29 7:59:28 PM  

ImpendingCynic: You a-holes treated us like crap 5-6 years ago because you didn't need us. Reap what you sow.


It should have never been a thing where a family of 5 can fly anywhere for $1000 .
 
2020-09-29 8:17:24 PM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: What leisure travelers? Americans are broke and can barely afford rent.
Lowkey, I'm hoping all the legacy carriers finally go bust for good this time and foreign owned airlines are finally allowed to operate in the US market.
/Bye bye crappy United/Delta/Murican
//Hello Emirates


Their quasi slave labor practices wouldn't fly here. What you would get is spirit airlines becoming a mega corporation
 
2020-09-29 8:21:04 PM  

Daer21: AllCatsAreBeautiful: What leisure travelers? Americans are broke and can barely afford rent.
Lowkey, I'm hoping all the legacy carriers finally go bust for good this time and foreign owned airlines are finally allowed to operate in the US market.
/Bye bye crappy United/Delta/Murican
//Hello Emirates

Their quasi slave labor practices wouldn't fly here. What you would get is spirit airlines becoming a mega corporation


You do realize and understand that Emirates maintains its own airline repair mechanics facility and airplane cleaning facilities at O'hare and JFK, right? With actual Emirates employees?

None of that 1099 slave labor that American and United use for repairing/cleaning their planes.

Why not go back to your FB conspiracy theories and leave this discussion for the actual adults in the room?
 
2020-09-30 1:14:17 AM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: What leisure travelers? Americans are broke and can barely afford rent.
Lowkey, I'm hoping all the legacy carriers finally go bust for good this time and foreign owned airlines are finally allowed to operate in the US market.
/Bye bye crappy United/Delta/Murican
//Hello Emirates


The middle eastern Big Three are money-losing operations, propped up by their respective governments. Yes the American airlines got access to free money too recently, because of the pandemic, but for the ME3 it's business as usual.

And they disguise it in hilariously transparent ways. My favorite was Qatar's $2B "cash injection" from their government, which has since been converted into shares. So the Qatari state's 100 percent stake in the airline has grown to a whopping 100 percent.

Yes you'll sometimes see Emirates post a "profit" but this disregards the blatant government support discussed above. This has always been a big point of contention when the talk turns to allowing them to operate in the US.
 
2020-09-30 1:22:50 AM  

neaorin: AllCatsAreBeautiful: What leisure travelers? Americans are broke and can barely afford rent.
Lowkey, I'm hoping all the legacy carriers finally go bust for good this time and foreign owned airlines are finally allowed to operate in the US market.
/Bye bye crappy United/Delta/Murican
//Hello Emirates

The middle eastern Big Three are money-losing operations, propped up by their respective governments. Yes the American airlines got access to free money too recently, because of the pandemic, but for the ME3 it's business as usual.

And they disguise it in hilariously transparent ways. My favorite was Qatar's $2B "cash injection" from their government, which has since been converted into shares. So the Qatari state's 100 percent stake in the airline has grown to a whopping 100 percent.

Yes you'll sometimes see Emirates post a "profit" but this disregards the blatant government support discussed above. This has always been a big point of contention when the talk turns to allowing them to operate in the US.


If you think Dubai government was financially propping up Emirates Airlines year after year, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to see you.

Believe it or not, Emirates pays a certain amount of its income to a publicly owned investment fund that anyone can buy shares in. Those shares are publicly traded on the Dubai stock market.

A little unknown fact; during the golden era of international air travel, DEWA (Dubai electricity and water authority), heavily relied on Emirates's profits to fund Dubai's infrastructure to further expand into tourism.
 
2020-09-30 1:47:39 AM  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: If you think Dubai government was financially propping up Emirates Airlines year after year, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to see you.


They are, and it's been going on for a long time, in various forms. The most blatant is fuel subsidies, like "allowing" the government to assume its fuel hedges whenever they lost money on them, thus no longer having to report them as liabilities. Fuel is was and away the largest cost for airlines in a normal environment (as in, not these days). Subsidized airport charges. Then you get into the slave laborish character of their labor laws, especially when it comes to bringing in people from the Indian subcontinent on contracts with very little, if any, worker protection.

So given that profits are whatever remains when you account for expenses, it's a hell of a lot easier to show a profit when someone else "helps" with expenses.
 
2020-09-30 2:14:01 AM  

neaorin: AllCatsAreBeautiful: If you think Dubai government was financially propping up Emirates Airlines year after year, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to see you.

They are, and it's been going on for a long time, in various forms. The most blatant is fuel subsidies, like "allowing" the government to assume its fuel hedges whenever they lost money on them, thus no longer having to report them as liabilities. Fuel is was and away the largest cost for airlines in a normal environment (as in, not these days). Subsidized airport charges. Then you get into the slave laborish character of their labor laws, especially when it comes to bringing in people from the Indian subcontinent on contracts with very little, if any, worker protection.

So given that profits are whatever remains when you account for expenses, it's a hell of a lot easier to show a profit when someone else "helps" with expenses.


The problem with your argument is, Dubai government doesn't own any refineries and oil does not even exist in Dubai. Abu Dhabi government does have oil and a government refinery.

Has Abu Dhabi government ever give  fuel subsidies to Emirates or Dubai government for that matter?  Nope, never. Your argument is disingenuous and uninformed at best, or just openly spouting complete falsehoods at worst.
 
2020-09-30 2:14:20 AM  
ever given*
 
2020-09-30 2:30:48 AM  
Huh? You don't have to have oil to subsidize money-losing fuel hedges. I'm not sure you even begin to understand the argument. This is a long-running point of contention between the US and the UAE + Qatar, and it's just one of many (admittedly this being the most blatant).

Of course the ME3 deny, deny and then deny some more, which is understandable from their point of view. I would do the same thing.
 
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