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(CNN)   Census: ehh we're gonna knock off 3 weeks early and stop counting on October 5th. Urban League et al: *lawsuit* Federal Judge: You are ordered to keep counting till Oct 31st. Commerce Sec: Yeah so October 5th it is. Judge: did I stutter?   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, United States Census Bureau, United States Census, Washington, D.C., President of the United States, Population, Census, Census Bureau, Last week's ruling  
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2326 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Sep 2020 at 8:20 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-09-29 12:16:20 PM  
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I thought at first it read "Wilbur Ross Fascist Facts"

Which wouldn't have been wrong, probably.
 
2020-09-29 1:24:57 PM  
"We don't understand what it means or what the specifics are," said Sadik Huseny, an attorney for the plaintiffs.

It means the Trump administration is ignoring the law. Again.
 
2020-09-29 1:48:12 PM  
Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.
 
2020-09-29 8:23:15 PM  
As far as I know, there's nothing preventing the next administration from doing a good census in 2021.

Though I'd guess that red states will pick whichever dataset lets them fark over the most brown & poor people.
 
2020-09-29 8:23:23 PM  
1) Biden wins
2) Fire incompetence
3) Hire Competence
4) Redo census
5) public execution of Trump officials who tried to ruin this country
#5 may not happen
 
2020-09-29 8:24:46 PM  
I didn't see the "Did I stutter?" part of the article. Seems like the judge ordered Wilbur to continue until October 31, he said, "Nah, we're still gonna stop on October 5," and then nothing else happened.

Just like always. No consequences. Nothing matters. Do whatever you want, Trumps. It's all farked anyway.
 
2020-09-29 8:24:58 PM  
The best response we could hope for is that Judge Koh demands Ross's appearance in court, likely followed by a finding of contempt.

/not going to happen
 
2020-09-29 8:25:24 PM  

Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.


They do, when they agree with it.

These are people who ignore anything that 'hurts' them, and will celebrate anything that benefits them.


They want to play legal and societal Calvinball, where they always have the advantage and you don't even know what the rules are at any given moment; but just know, if you aren't of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.
 
2020-09-29 8:26:28 PM  
But Veruca Trump doesn't want to count the non-white people.
 
2020-09-29 8:27:37 PM  
Dont farking stutter, put these mofos in prison. Straight up with no possibility for parole or early good behavior release for least 4 years so when they come out, they've learned their lesson.
 
2020-09-29 8:27:49 PM  
Only assholes will vote Republican this year.

"Law and order", my ass. They don't give a shiat about law, but they sure do want a new order.
 
2020-09-29 8:27:51 PM  

Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.


Welcome to Bartertown.
 
2020-09-29 8:29:58 PM  
Good. Let Biden redo the Census. It'll be a lot more accurate, and it will finally fall under and a Democrat administration, and it can forever be off a year from the original so people remember what a colossal farkup Trump's administration was.
 
2020-09-29 8:32:08 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: 1) Biden wins
2) Fire incompetence
3) Hire Competence
4) Redo census
5) public execution of Trump officials who tried to ruin this country
#5 may not happen


There actually is an obscure provision set up in WWII that allows for a mid-deccenial census. So, 2025 at the earliest.
 
2020-09-29 8:33:16 PM  

lolmao500: Dont farking stutter, put these mofos in prison. Straight up with no possibility for parole or early good behavior release for least 4 years so when they come out, they've learned their lesson.


The only way they are going to prison before the election is if the center-left executes a counter-coup. And that that point we could reach a lot further.

When corrupt people administer the system, the system become inherently corrupt.
 
2020-09-29 8:35:13 PM  
I think a lot about that episode of Friendswhere the men and the women have a trivia contest to determine who gets to live in the good apartment.  Eventually the men win, but the women just run into the apartment and lock the door and won't let the men in.  The men just give up and let them do what they want, despite winning the apartment fair and square.

American politics is a lot like this right now, I think.
 
2020-09-29 8:39:41 PM  

BlueDWarrior: Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.

They do, when they agree with it.

These are people who ignore anything that 'hurts' them, and will celebrate anything that benefits them.


They want to play legal and societal Calvinball, where they always have the advantage and you don't even know what the rules are at any given moment; but just know, if you aren't of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.



So what's the downside of acting like that? If you can ignore laws and judgements and punishments without consequence, why not do it?

I know I'm about to start trying it. Fark it.
 
2020-09-29 8:43:22 PM  

Lochsteppe: As far as I know, there's nothing preventing the next administration from doing a good census in 2021.

Though I'd guess that red states will pick whichever dataset lets them fark over the most brown & poor people.


States don't get to pick.
 
2020-09-29 8:58:35 PM  

JerkStore: BlueDWarrior: Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.

They do, when they agree with it.

These are people who ignore anything that 'hurts' them, and will celebrate anything that benefits them.


They want to play legal and societal Calvinball, where they always have the advantage and you don't even know what the rules are at any given moment; but just know, if you aren't of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.


So what's the downside of acting like that? If you can ignore laws and judgements and punishments without consequence, why not do it?

I know I'm about to start trying it. Fark it.


The downside is reprisal once you are out of power; so the solution is never be out of power.

And as we've seen throughout history, people will literally kill to not lose their power.

So it hasn't gotten anywhere close to being as bad as it could be.
 
2020-09-29 9:02:37 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: 1) Biden wins
2) Fire incompetence
3) Hire Competence
4) Redo census
5) public execution of Trump officials who tried to ruin this country
#5 may not happen


Well once Judge Barrett is rammed onto SCOTUS by Mitch I'm sure there will be some justification for ruling that doing a census on an off year is unconstitutional. Hell if the right case came along I wouldn't be surprised that the Democratic Party somehow was ruled unconstitutional.
 
2020-09-29 9:05:53 PM  

JerkStore: BlueDWarrior: Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.

They do, when they agree with it.

These are people who ignore anything that 'hurts' them, and will celebrate anything that benefits them.


They want to play legal and societal Calvinball, where they always have the advantage and you don't even know what the rules are at any given moment; but just know, if you aren't of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.


So what's the downside of acting like that? If you can ignore laws and judgements and punishments without consequence, why not do it?

I know I'm about to start trying it. Fark it.


For some mysterious, unknown reason, lower-level crimes have all kinds of mechanisms for ensuring compliance, especially punitive ones, while higher-level crimes apparently exist in a world of White Gentleman's Agreements that no one ever saw a reason to do anything about.  I wonder why that is.  The world may never know.
 
2020-09-29 9:09:37 PM  

Citation Needed: Bovine Diarrhea Virus: 1) Biden wins
2) Fire incompetence
3) Hire Competence
4) Redo census
5) public execution of Trump officials who tried to ruin this country
#5 may not happen

Well once Judge Barrett is rammed onto SCOTUS by Mitch I'm sure there will be some justification for ruling that doing a census on an off year is unconstitutional. Hell if the right case came along I wouldn't be surprised that the Democratic Party somehow was ruled unconstitutional.


At which point Democrats, if they have the Senate, will ram a Supreme Court Expansion through.

Republicans want everything to turn into a game where whoever has power does whatever they want, they don't realize a lot of Democrats are perfectly willing to play the same game with them.
 
2020-09-29 9:25:53 PM  

Walker: Article is from yesterday. Judge did not say "Did I stutter?"
Nothing has happened since Commerce Secretary Sleepy said "Yeah we're just gonna ignore your ruling."
Nothing will happen.
The Trump administration doesn't listen to laws or court judgements. Duh.


^THIS^

Donnie is like that kid whose parents say, "OR ELSE!"   Donnie replies, "Or else what?"  The parents stand their looking at each other.  Donnie walks off to continue doing what he was doing.

Well, this American experiment had a good run.
 
2020-09-29 9:28:07 PM  

Lochsteppe: As far as I know, there's nothing preventing the next administration from doing a good census in 2021.

Though I'd guess that red states will pick whichever dataset lets them fark over the most brown & poor people.



Holy shiat no. I have been working for the Census for a year+ in various roles, it's the source of my health insurance, I do it because I like it and feel like a good person for doing it, and I would not farking sign up again if they did it next year. Lemme tell you why:

* It's too damn late. Last year, address canvassing (the operation that figures out all the addresses that actually exist) was already over by now, and we didn't do enough of it. There was a shiatload more work to do, and we just couldn't do it because of deadlines. Any re-census would be built on the bones of an address canvassing operation that's two years old and wasn't even accurate then. Absolute farking mess A.

* The software is farked. It just is. I won't get into details, but the software we use for door-to door operations is just pretty terrible. It needs a serious overhaul before it ever, ever gets used again, and there isn't the time to do it - we'd just be piling more data into its trainwreck. Right now, we need all the time we can get for the ACCs/DC to sort out the mess. Absolute farking mess B.

* People are pissedat the Census. And yeah, some of it is just your standard anti-government nuts or just standard assholes who scream "NO SOLICITING!" because they have no idea what that actually means. But they're also pissed off because they're getting person after person showing up to their door - even after they've already done it. They're showing up because of farking messes A and B - we have duplicate addresses, or just no record of the census they actually filled out even though they can show us the confirmation letter. And farking mess B, the software, won't let us take these people off the list, so they're getting seriously four farking people showing up at their door, all earnestly asking them to fill out the census they've already done while they're trying to put their groceries away or just have a goddamned day off. Even nice people are pissed at the Census, and I understand absolutely every single one of them. Absolute farking mess C.

I've been living in a motel room, managing a Census team in the Boonies for the last three weeks, and we're all heading home tomorrow. They asked me to stay until the fifth, but I just can't any more at this point. I'm burned out and trying to line up my next job, and my team is the same. They want to go through the 31st? Great, get some more raw data gathered in our awful system and work with it - maybe I'll come back up if the rest of my life works out and they ask nice - but that should be it for this trainwreck Census. Let it go. Any attempt to redo it is seriously going to be worse,no matter who's in charge, because of above-described A, B, and C.

Honestly, the best thing we can do with this one is make the next one less bad. Start the process for the next one immediatelyafter this one is done, to take place in 2030, and usefully incorporate everything that went wrong with this one to do so.

If anyone at the actual Census office wants to hire me for that going forwards, I have some strong farking opinions I'd like to contribute.
 
2020-09-29 10:19:35 PM  
... just gonna point out that I predicted that the Trump administration was going to find some way to literally not submit a census to congress at all for the first time in our nation's history, by somehow producing something that legally cannot actually be called a census as defined in the constitution.

So... yeah.  Called it.  Though them openly violating the explicit law governing what defines the census as a valid census happened a bit earlier than expected.

Hope no one's too annoyed by census knockers and such, because it looks like we get to do it all again in 2021 or 2022.

// I sympathize  with gonegirl's frustration, for instance, but... the constitution explicitly requires a census once a decade, if this one isn't a valid census we don't really have a choice.
 
2020-09-29 10:26:30 PM  

BlueDWarrior: Republicans want everything to turn into a game where whoever has power does whatever they want, they don't realize a lot of Democrats are perfectly willing to play the same game with them.


Citation needed, facts not in evidence.

I'm on your side and think it's time, but I just haven't seen a leader sufficiently willing to punch back. I'll vote Biden/Harris, I'm already sold, but I just don't see the willingness to power-game the current rules the way McConnell & co have.
 
2020-09-29 10:27:37 PM  
Jim_Callahan: ... just gonna point out that I predicted that the Trump administration was going to find some way to literally not submit a census to congress at all for the first time in our nation's history, by somehow producing something that legally cannot actually be called a census as defined in the constitution.

So... yeah.  Called it.  Though them openly violating the explicit law governing what defines the census as a valid census happened a bit earlier than expected.

Hope no one's too annoyed by census knockers and such, because it looks like we get to do it all again in 2021 or 2022.

// I sympathize  with gonegirl's frustration, for instance, but... the constitution explicitly requires a census once a decade, if this one isn't a valid census we don't really have a choice.


There are better ways of doing the Census than doing a complete enumeration of the country every 10 years.  There are proven statistical sampling techniques that exist now that can produce accurate estimates that are up dated on a continuous basis.  The Census American Community Survey has been in place for 15 years and has proven that statistical sampling is a viable way of obtaining good quality estimates.  The GOP has continually opposed modernizing the Census.  Their argument?  The constitution demands a complete enumeration, not sampling.
 
2020-09-29 10:39:09 PM  

palelizard: BlueDWarrior: Republicans want everything to turn into a game where whoever has power does whatever they want, they don't realize a lot of Democrats are perfectly willing to play the same game with them.

Citation needed, facts not in evidence.

I'm on your side and think it's time, but I just haven't seen a leader sufficiently willing to punch back. I'll vote Biden/Harris, I'm already sold, but I just don't see the willingness to power-game the current rules the way McConnell & co have.


Because you have to wind up the base to the point where they say "The only good republican is an out-of-office Republican" and be willing to vote people out on that sentiment in primaries. And most Democrats, even now, aren't willing to just say 'freeze Republicans out of politics forever' and leave it at that like Republicans are for Democrats.

So long as Democrats aren't willing to shun their own for fraternizing with Republicans, then this asymmetry will persist.
 
2020-09-29 11:00:41 PM  
Charge with Criminal contempt, or STFU

It is that simple
 
2020-09-29 11:16:29 PM  

BlueDWarrior: palelizard: BlueDWarrior: Republicans want everything to turn into a game where whoever has power does whatever they want, they don't realize a lot of Democrats are perfectly willing to play the same game with them.

Citation needed, facts not in evidence.

I'm on your side and think it's time, but I just haven't seen a leader sufficiently willing to punch back. I'll vote Biden/Harris, I'm already sold, but I just don't see the willingness to power-game the current rules the way McConnell & co have.

Because you have to wind up the base to the point where they say "The only good republican is an out-of-office Republican" and be willing to vote people out on that sentiment in primaries. And most Democrats, even now, aren't willing to just say 'freeze Republicans out of politics forever' and leave it at that like Republicans are for Democrats.

So long as Democrats aren't willing to shun their own for fraternizing with Republicans, then this asymmetry will persist.


Agreed. But that's one of the core differences between the current Left and Right: the Left tends to say "I'm open to suggestions" and the Right says "We're doing it my way or I'll burn the motherfarker down".

I think it's a survival trait and we actually have a spectrum of homo sapiens, destined for Eloi/Morlock country. Some of us understand, innovate, and accept change as inevitable, some will do the opposite--because that's what worked in the past, why change it? In smaller tribal groups, this balance probably was healthy. But we're changing too rapidly for that now, and the conservative wing can't keep up.

Ultimately I think it comes down to how willing the progressive side is to aggressively drag the conservative side into the present. Biden isn't that guy to wind up that base, but he's a sure hell of a lot better than the conservatives dragging the rest of us backwards while we try to adapt.

I watched the first parts of the debate before I got too annoyed. Biden's not winding up the base.
 
2020-09-29 11:23:25 PM  
I've talked to some people in the Census.  Wilbur is also only assigning them around 9 cases a day, down from a hundred, since the order, and telling them they can not start work until 7:45 at night. There are still millions of cases that need to be confirmed, but Wilbur is doing his best to gum up the works.

It's on par with what the asshole Trump officials are doing to the Post Office.  Slowing everything down, and claiming it is all just routine, and justified for reasons.
 
2020-09-29 11:34:14 PM  

Fissile: Jim_Callahan: ... just gonna point out that I predicted that the Trump administration was going to find some way to literally not submit a census to congress at all for the first time in our nation's history, by somehow producing something that legally cannot actually be called a census as defined in the constitution.

So... yeah.  Called it.  Though them openly violating the explicit law governing what defines the census as a valid census happened a bit earlier than expected.

Hope no one's too annoyed by census knockers and such, because it looks like we get to do it all again in 2021 or 2022.

// I sympathize  with gonegirl's frustration, for instance, but... the constitution explicitly requires a census once a decade, if this one isn't a valid census we don't really have a choice.

There are better ways of doing the Census than doing a complete enumeration of the country every 10 years.  There are proven statistical sampling techniques that exist now that can produce accurate estimates that are up dated on a continuous basis.  The Census American Community Survey has been in place for 15 years and has proven that statistical sampling is a viable way of obtaining good quality estimates.  The GOP has continually opposed modernizing the Census.  Their argument?  The constitution demands a complete enumeration, not sampling.


I honestly agree with the complete count. Yeah, the American Community Survey has been in place for a while and doing a good job. You know why it's doing a good job? I'd say in large part because it's not being used for anything as important as deciding Congressional representation.

Can you imagine how farked the Census would be if it were based on statistical extrapolation, when an administration like Trump's was allowed to decide which populations should serve as the samples?
 
2020-09-30 12:06:14 AM  

gonegirl: Fissile: Jim_Callahan: ... just gonna point out that I predicted that the Trump administration was going to find some way to literally not submit a census to congress at all for the first time in our nation's history, by somehow producing something that legally cannot actually be called a census as defined in the constitution.

So... yeah.  Called it.  Though them openly violating the explicit law governing what defines the census as a valid census happened a bit earlier than expected.

Hope no one's too annoyed by census knockers and such, because it looks like we get to do it all again in 2021 or 2022.

// I sympathize  with gonegirl's frustration, for instance, but... the constitution explicitly requires a census once a decade, if this one isn't a valid census we don't really have a choice.

There are better ways of doing the Census than doing a complete enumeration of the country every 10 years.  There are proven statistical sampling techniques that exist now that can produce accurate estimates that are up dated on a continuous basis.  The Census American Community Survey has been in place for 15 years and has proven that statistical sampling is a viable way of obtaining good quality estimates.  The GOP has continually opposed modernizing the Census.  Their argument?  The constitution demands a complete enumeration, not sampling.

I honestly agree with the complete count. Yeah, the American Community Survey has been in place for a while and doing a good job. You know why it's doing a good job? I'd say in large part because it's not being used for anything as important as deciding Congressional representation.

Can you imagine how farked the Census would be if it were based on statistical extrapolation, when an administration like Trump's was allowed to decide which populations should serve as the samples?


Poor and minority communities have been under-counted for decades under the best of conditions.  As the Trump Administration has just proven, the decennial enumeration can be easily gamed.

The Census has attempted repeatedly to develop methods for estimating hard to enumerate populations.   For example, looking at cell phone/internet/cable TV subscriptions, supplemented by door-to-door sampling.  These estimates would be continually updated, so more difficult to spoil the data sets over the long haul.

The GOP has repeatedly sabotaged any attempts at bringing the Census into the modern age.   The Census Bureau is one of the worst, if not the worst, run federal agency.
 
2020-09-30 1:00:25 AM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: 1) Biden wins
2) Fire incompetence
3) Hire Competence
4) Redo census
5) public execution of Trump officials who tried to ruin this country
#5 may not happen


#4 won't happen either
 
2020-09-30 2:00:57 AM  

gonegirl: Lochsteppe: As far as I know, there's nothing preventing the next administration from doing a good census in 2021.

Though I'd guess that red states will pick whichever dataset lets them fark over the most brown & poor people.


Holy shiat no. I have been working for the Census for a year+ in various roles, it's the source of my health insurance, I do it because I like it and feel like a good person for doing it, and I would not farking sign up again if they did it next year. Lemme tell you why:

* It's too damn late. Last year, address canvassing (the operation that figures out all the addresses that actually exist) was already over by now, and we didn't do enough of it. There was a shiatload more work to do, and we just couldn't do it because of deadlines. Any re-census would be built on the bones of an address canvassing operation that's two years old and wasn't even accurate then. Absolute farking mess A.

* The software is farked. It just is. I won't get into details, but the software we use for door-to door operations is just pretty terrible. It needs a serious overhaul before it ever, ever gets used again, and there isn't the time to do it - we'd just be piling more data into its trainwreck. Right now, we need all the time we can get for the ACCs/DC to sort out the mess. Absolute farking mess B.

* People are pissedat the Census. And yeah, some of it is just your standard anti-government nuts or just standard assholes who scream "NO SOLICITING!" because they have no idea what that actually means. But they're also pissed off because they're getting person after person showing up to their door - even after they've already done it. They're showing up because of farking messes A and B - we have duplicate addresses, or just no record of the census they actually filled out even though they can show us the confirmation letter. And farking mess B, the software, won't let us take these people off the list, so they're getting seriously four farking people showing up at their door, all earnestly asking them to fill out the census they've already done while they're trying to put their groceries away or just have a goddamned day off. Even nice people are pissed at the Census, and I understand absolutely every single one of them. Absolute farking mess C.

I've been living in a motel room, managing a Census team in the Boonies for the last three weeks, and we're all heading home tomorrow. They asked me to stay until the fifth, but I just can't any more at this point. I'm burned out and trying to line up my next job, and my team is the same. They want to go through the 31st? Great, get some more raw data gathered in our awful system and work with it - maybe I'll come back up if the rest of my life works out and they ask nice - but that should be it for this trainwreck Census. Let it go. Any attempt to redo it is seriously going to be worse,no matter who's in charge, because of above-described A, B, and C.

Honestly, the best thing we can do with this one is make the next one less bad. Start the process for the next one immediatelyafter this one is done, to take place in 2030, and usefully incorporate everything that went wrong with this one to do so.

If anyone at the actual Census office wants to hire me for that going forwards, I have some strong farking opinions I'd like to contribute.


Ya know. Some people take jobs/careers for the money and some people take jobs/careers and stay at them because they like what they do and want to improve everything about it.

You definitely are the latter. With that excitement, knowledge, and care you profess about what you are doing, I sincerely wish that some day, you would not only find a career at the actual Census office, but you would rise though the ranks and change the system from within. Someone has to do it.

I get it. I'm that same type. I found my path 2 decades ago. It is obscure, niche engineering skills. Someone has to be that guy. Why not me?

If it makes you happy and you like it, be that person. Go for it. Change it. Make a name for yourself. A small footprint in this world. Your footprint. Someone has to. Why not you?
 
2020-09-30 4:59:30 AM  
people have phones, people can visit the census site and fill it out, or people can fill out the mailer and send it in

but its trumps fault you had all year to do it
 
2020-09-30 8:00:32 AM  
judge needs to slap motherf*cker Ross in jail to show him what Oct 31 means.
 
2020-09-30 1:43:15 PM  

BlueDWarrior: if you aren't of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.


Even if you are part of the tribe, you're getting farked by them.
 
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