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(NPR)   Fighting over contested region threatens to spiral into full-blown war. Americans try to remember whether they saw the place names involved in a book by J.R.R. Tolkein, or J.K. Rowling, definitely cannot find them on a map   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Scary, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Russia, Caucasus, Nagorno-Karabakh, disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region, Vladimir Putin  
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4674 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 29 Sep 2020 at 10:35 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-29 9:10:05 AM  
Turkey and Russia going at it would be less than ideal. The Black Sea is a terrible place to have a shooting war.
 
2020-09-29 9:23:29 AM  
"The attack was coming. There were numerous signals, all saw them and did nothing for weeks."

This is the kind of situation where the US would traditionally send an envoy to do some talking and try to calm things down. I'm sure our state department has bigger problems to deal with these days, like how to launch the new Grift-O-Matic 2020.
 
2020-09-29 9:33:23 AM  
I was coming here to make a joke about "Where are the Kardashians in all of this" and was shocked to learn that Kim already spoke out. Color me impressed.

https://www.newsweek.com/kim-kardashi​a​n-west-urges-diplomatic-measures-respo​nse-armenia-azerbaijan-conflict-153451​0
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2020-09-29 9:56:34 AM  
A documentary filmmaker visited the region and made a short film about it a couple of years ago:


The Country The World Says Doesn't Exist
Youtube unBdquVfnug


He can be a bit strong on the hyperbole and obviously he's not taking a dispassionate stand, but his video does a reasonably good job of outlining the basics of the situation and the people living there.
 
2020-09-29 10:36:27 AM  
Aaannddd...
Re-elected!

Sell more bullets too!
 
2020-09-29 10:37:41 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Turkey and Russia going at it would be less than ideal. The Black Sea is a terrible place to have a shooting war.



All seas matter.
 
2020-09-29 10:37:51 AM  
Armenia is in the North Eastern section of the former Ottoman Empire.  When it was a vassal of the Ottomans it became a real thorn in their side.  Pro Russian (really anti-Ottoman) Armenians would cross the border into then-Russia, get weapons, come back, attack, then flee back to Russia.
 
2020-09-29 10:38:05 AM  
This is real tough cookie for Trump because he has a hardon for both Erdogan and Putin but they are on opposite sides of this conflict.

What's poor Trumpy to do.
 
2020-09-29 10:39:16 AM  
Azerbaijan is the jail in Harry Potter, that much I do know.
 
2020-09-29 10:39:27 AM  
What, no fantasy series jokes yet? You guys must be Tolkien a snooze, I thought I'd be Rowling on the Floor LMAO by now.
 
2020-09-29 10:39:47 AM  
subby, for a punching-down joke to work, you need to punch in the right direction.

Rowling targeted a generation of kids so you might as well be talking about the general population.  However, I would imagine readers of Tolkien, of all people, wouldn't be averse to studying some basic geography.
 
2020-09-29 10:40:01 AM  
Latest news :
- TURKISH F-16 SHOT DOWN AN ARMENIAN SU-25 FIGHTER JET; PILOT KILLED: RIA (UH FARKING OH)
- Turkey "fully ready" to help Azerbaijan take back separatist region of Nagorny Karabakh, President Erdogan's top press aide says ahead of UN Security Council debate on crisis
- #Turkey carries out direct aggression against #Armenia - Armenian Defense Ministry
- The Armenian Ministry of Defense: "Our forces are compelled to use weapons of widespread destruction in the war against Azerbaijan in Karabakh."

Meanwhile in Kuwait...
CNN Turk claims that the Kuwait Emiri has passed away, reservists called up


Me thinks Turkey is about to get hit by Iskander ballistic missiles...
 
2020-09-29 10:40:02 AM  
Russia: "I have a simple solution: I'll steal them both and just try and stop me."
 
2020-09-29 10:40:41 AM  
Turkey's relations with Armenia are clouded by the Ottoman Empire's 1915 mass killing of Armenians, which many historians have described as genocide. Turks and Azeris share ethnic and linguistic kinship, and ties between neighbors Turkey and Armenia have been frozen because of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.

"Turkey continues to stand with the friendly and brotherly Azerbaijan with all its facilities and heart," Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Monday, blaming Armenia for the renewed fighting.


I have a feeling that Erdogan wants to renew the mass killings of Armenians, just because he's a psychopathic asshole and loves continuing traditions (like the killing of the Kurds).
 
2020-09-29 10:40:45 AM  

RussianPotato: Armenia is in the North Eastern section of the former Ottoman Empire.  When it was a vassal of the Ottomans it became a real thorn in their side.  Pro Russian (really anti-Ottoman) Armenians would cross the border into then-Russia, get weapons, come back, attack, then flee back to Russia.


But, boy, did the Ottomans make great furniture, or what?!
 
2020-09-29 10:42:41 AM  
Nagorno-Karabakh was Rimsky-Korsakov's nom de plume when he was composing music for burlesque shows.
 
2020-09-29 10:43:05 AM  

mdemon81: This is real tough cookie for Trump because he has a hardon for both Erdogan and Putin but they are on opposite sides of this conflict.

What's poor Trumpy to do.


Well Trump has a Trump Tower deal in Azerbaijan, so he's going to side with them.
 
2020-09-29 10:43:49 AM  
When has Eastern Europe not been farked up?  The Byzantine Empire, maybe?
 
2020-09-29 10:44:50 AM  
ARMENIA STRONG! never again!
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-29 10:45:10 AM  

mdemon81: This is real tough cookie for Trump because he has a hardon for both Erdogan and Putin but they are on opposite sides of this conflict.

What's poor Trumpy to do.


Make another peace deal, this time between Denmark and Belgium?
 
2020-09-29 10:45:29 AM  
A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.
 
2020-09-29 10:47:31 AM  

shut_it_down: mdemon81: This is real tough cookie for Trump because he has a hardon for both Erdogan and Putin but they are on opposite sides of this conflict.

What's poor Trumpy to do.

Well Trump has a Trump Tower deal in Azerbaijan, so he's going to side with them.


Well, he has towers in Istanbul as well.  By the time you see the sign on the building, he's already been paid off.
 
2020-09-29 10:47:48 AM  

edmo: "The attack was coming. There were numerous signals, all saw them and did nothing for weeks."

This is the kind of situation where the US would traditionally send an envoy to do some talking and try to calm things down. I'm sure our state department has bigger problems to deal with these days, like how to launch the new Grift-O-Matic 2020.


"Traditionally," they're in about the same situation they've been in since 1992. Tehy're just being slightly more violent than usual.

So your new talking point is "Yeah, Trump is bringing peace to the Mideast, and should get at least a Nobel Prize for it, but there's some other assholes over here that he hasn't gotten around to yet!"

Never mind that the two countries in question are sandwiched between Russia, Turkey, and Iran.
 
2020-09-29 10:48:05 AM  

thehobbes: A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.


Part of me hopes Putin start bombing Turkey just to see Erdogan cry on tv like the little biatch he is.
 
2020-09-29 10:48:27 AM  

lolmao500: Me thinks Turkey is about to get hit by Iskander ballistic missiles.


That would force Russia's hand to either abandon the defense pact, or get directly involved.

It can be argued that the SU-25 shootdown was at the behest of Azerbaijan to prevent escalation. The F-16s took off from an Azerbaijani base.

Retaliating against bases in Turkey would escalate this significantly.
 
2020-09-29 10:49:02 AM  

mdemon81: This is real tough cookie for Trump because he has a hardon for both Erdogan and Putin but they are on opposite sides of this conflict.

What's poor Trumpy to do.


Golf.
 
2020-09-29 10:49:55 AM  

TWX: A documentary filmmaker visited the region and made a short film about it a couple of years ago:


[YouTube video: The Country The World Says Doesn't Exist]

He can be a bit strong on the hyperbole and obviously he's not taking a dispassionate stand, but his video does a reasonably good job of outlining the basics of the situation and the people living there.


This guy is the guy to watch if you want really good vids of day to day life in various former Soviet Countries/Reigons/Cities
Some vids are extremely educational.

This Country Does Not Exist! | Transnistria
Youtube 5kVnrqBb6y4
 
2020-09-29 10:50:19 AM  
Time for a Serj Tankian concert. Maybe he'll do that song about genocide, "Rains of Castamere"
 
2020-09-29 10:50:40 AM  
This has been going on for some time.

When the 2019 UEFA Champions League final was held in Baku, Azerbaijan between Arsenal and Chelsea, one of Arsenal's players was the Armenian midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan.

He ended up missing the game because the club couldn't guarantee his safety whilst in the country.
 
2020-09-29 10:50:51 AM  

thehobbes: lolmao500: Me thinks Turkey is about to get hit by Iskander ballistic missiles.

That would force Russia's hand to either abandon the defense pact, or get directly involved.

It can be argued that the SU-25 shootdown was at the behest of Azerbaijan to prevent escalation. The F-16s took off from an Azerbaijani base.

Retaliating against bases in Turkey would escalate this significantly.


The Iskanders were on vacation in Crimea.
 
2020-09-29 10:50:52 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Turkey and Russia going at it would be less than ideal. The Black Sea is a terrible place to have a shooting war.


As long as it's at sea, why not send some "peace keepers"? At least it's wouldn't be a land war.
 
2020-09-29 10:51:05 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Azerbaijan, a country you think about so little, you didn't even realize that's not Azerbaijan. In fact, its not even a land mass...

Fark user imageView Full Size

Its the Caspian Sea!
 
2020-09-29 10:51:29 AM  

lolmao500: thehobbes: A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.

Part of me hopes Putin start bombing Turkey just to see Erdogan cry on tv like the little biatch he is.


Can't.  NATO.

Letting Turkey into NATO was one of the biggest mistakes ever made.
 
2020-09-29 10:51:38 AM  
Just get Mary Louise Kelly to point them out for the Secretary of State.
 
2020-09-29 10:52:07 AM  
Can't we have Trump go there and calm things down by Trump letting Putin and Erdogan use him as a human toilet? It is Trump's unique skill in dealing with tyrants. Putin and Erdogan could bond through their further debasement of the Orange Turd.
 
2020-09-29 10:52:07 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-29 10:52:18 AM  
Don't worry. Trump will step in and handle the situation. Earning his fourth Nobel nomination to date. You're welcome, dirty people
 
2020-09-29 10:53:47 AM  
Oh please.  Everybody knows that those two countries are located in Westeros.  King Robert just needs to assert the authority he got after he deposed the mad king to settle this.
 
2020-09-29 10:53:52 AM  

Podna: ARMENIA STRONG! never again![Fark user image 425x566]


clicks magnify .  Ok , that's not a bird.
 
2020-09-29 10:54:51 AM  

RussianPotato: lolmao500: thehobbes: A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.

Part of me hopes Putin start bombing Turkey just to see Erdogan cry on tv like the little biatch he is.

Can't.  NATO.

Letting Turkey into NATO was one of the biggest mistakes ever made.


Not really. Not overthrowing Erdogan when he pulled his BS coup against him scheme was the biggest mistake NATO ever made.

When Erdogan turns a moderate muslim democracy into an extremist dictatorship and NATO does nothing because democracy, its farking bullshiat.
 
2020-09-29 10:56:19 AM  

stinkynuts: Don't worry. Trump will step in and handle the situation.

That's actually not irrelevant.  Biden is leading Trump by a significant margin and while that BoA-whore isn't going to represent the working class any more than Trump, a Democratic administration will have a functional State Department, so anyone who wants a war has on has about three months to escalate it beyond the point of no return.
 
2020-09-29 10:57:14 AM  

lolmao500: thehobbes: A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.

Part of me hopes Putin start bombing Turkey just to see Erdogan cry on tv like the little biatch he is.


I doubt Putin will.

The shoot down of the AAF SU-25 by Turkey was in Azerbaijan airspace. 

Putin just finished their large wargame/demonstration with Belarus as a show of force to support their puppet. I don't think they can afford to go toe to toe with Turkey, even without NATO. 

Turkish aircraft have been in Azerbaijan since wargames this summer. 

Guessing they're going to make a run on Artsakh and dare Armenia to push them out. Then push for peace.
 
2020-09-29 10:57:28 AM  

NikolaiFarkoff: I was coming here to make a joke about "Where are the Kardashians in all of this" and was shocked to learn that Kim already spoke out. Color me impressed.

https://www.newsweek.com/kim-kardashia​n-west-urges-diplomatic-measures-respo​nse-armenia-azerbaijan-conflict-153451​0


Every Armenian I have ever known, no matter how many generations they've been in the US, has been very vocal about Armenian relations in the region. I'm not surprised at all that Kim is being vocal about this.
 
2020-09-29 10:57:47 AM  

edmo: "The attack was coming. There were numerous signals, all saw them and did nothing for weeks."

This is the kind of situation where the US would traditionally send an envoy to do some talking and try to calm things down. I'm sure our state department has bigger problems to deal with these days, like how to launch the new Grift-O-Matic 2020. people look at the results of Obama/Biden/Clinton/Kerry policies in Libya/Syria and say "No Thanks".

 
2020-09-29 10:59:00 AM  

lolmao500: Latest news :
- TURKISH F-16 SHOT DOWN AN ARMENIAN SU-25 FIGHTER JET; PILOT KILLED: RIA (UH FARKING OH)
- Turkey "fully ready" to help Azerbaijan take back separatist region of Nagorny Karabakh, President Erdogan's top press aide says ahead of UN Security Council debate on crisis
- #Turkey carries out direct aggression against #Armenia - Armenian Defense Ministry
- The Armenian Ministry of Defense: "Our forces are compelled to use weapons of widespread destruction in the war against Azerbaijan in Karabakh."

Meanwhile in Kuwait...
CNN Turk claims that the Kuwait Emiri has passed away, reservists called up


Me thinks Turkey is about to get hit by Iskander ballistic missiles...


And looks like NATO has its "out" - "Well, you guys got yourselves into this, it's not 'defense' anymore."
 
2020-09-29 10:59:44 AM  
Land locked Armenia in a defense pact with Russia.... Azerbaijan has good relations with Russia....Turkey and Iran in the area....

I'm going to go out on a limb and say all of this is a pretense to start rolling tanks through the rest of Georgia. Kind of an "accidental" conquering.
 
2020-09-29 11:00:33 AM  

thehobbes: lolmao500: thehobbes: A Turkish F-16 just splashed an Armenian SU-25. 

First direct action by Turkey.

For those keeping score at home

Turkey is backing Azerbaijan, who is buying weapon systems from Israel. 
Turkey is deploying Syrian Rebels (SNA) who opposed Assad and are also currently turning the tide in Libya toward the UN government's favor. A decade of unconventional warfare and no job prospects has turned these guys into veterans in civil war style fighting.
Azerbaijan has been using it's petroleum wealth to build up it's modern military in preparation for trying to retake the region. In 2016 they were unsuccessful, but in a better position in 2020. 
They used/are using the TB2 Turksih made UAV to knock out Aremnian Air Defense, and now Turkey is supporting Azerbaijan establish air superiority. 

Russia is in a bind as they want to support Armenia and have a defense pact if the fighting spills past the Arsakh region. Armenia is trying to protect its de facto protectorate.

Russia is redeploying the little green men and PMCs from Syria and Donbas to support Armenia with some deniability. 

Not looking good for Armenia on paper.

Part of me hopes Putin start bombing Turkey just to see Erdogan cry on tv like the little biatch he is.

I doubt Putin will.

The shoot down of the AAF SU-25 by Turkey was in Azerbaijan airspace. 

Putin just finished their large wargame/demonstration with Belarus as a show of force to support their puppet. I don't think they can afford to go toe to toe with Turkey, even without NATO. 

Turkish aircraft have been in Azerbaijan since wargames this summer. 

Guessing they're going to make a run on Artsakh and dare Armenia to push them out. Then push for peace.


BBC says the shoot down was in Armenian airspace.
 
2020-09-29 11:00:40 AM  

lolmao500: When Erdogan turns a moderate muslim democracy into an extremist dictatorship and NATO does nothing because democracy, its farking bullshiat.


That's how the majority of countries in that area go when they actually have elections.

You may not be willing to accept reality, but the majority of people who live over there WANT to live under an extremist sharia law based government.
 
2020-09-29 11:01:44 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: edmo: "The attack was coming. There were numerous signals, all saw them and did nothing for weeks."

This is the kind of situation where the US would traditionally send an envoy to do some talking and try to calm things down. I'm sure our state department has bigger problems to deal with these days, like how to launch the new Grift-O-Matic 2020. people look at the results of Obama/Biden/Clinton/Kerry policies in Libya/Syria and say "No Thanks".


What's it like to be wrong 100% of the time?
 
2020-09-29 11:01:46 AM  
How can anyone tell who the enemy is when they're all wearing track suits?
 
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