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(NBC News)   Pro tip: Before tampering with evidence of a Black man who died in police custody when you are on "Live PD," do not forget you are on "Live PD" cameras   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Jury, Hypertension, Police, Indictment, Grand jury, Austin, Texas, Constable, Williamson County Sheriff Robert Chody  
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5920 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Sep 2020 at 9:50 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-29 8:51:09 AM  
Considering what shows like Cops and Live PD have done to normalize and even romanticize blatant police abuses of power, I'm surprised they didn't turn this into a Very Special Double Episode.
 
2020-09-29 9:02:23 AM  
I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-29 9:43:25 AM  
Chody?

That's his name?
 
2020-09-29 9:49:40 AM  
Like the protests all summer, the cops knew they were being filmed and did bad stuff anyway. Imagine what they do when they know no one is watching.
 
2020-09-29 9:53:17 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]


An aneurysm will do that to you. Check to make sure your ears aren't bleeding.
 
2020-09-29 9:56:17 AM  
I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?
 
2020-09-29 9:56:35 AM  

CheetahOlivetti: Chody?

That's his name?


Yeah. Bageldick, Bottlecock, Trumpshroom and Gene Masseth were all taken, so he got stuck with that.
 
2020-09-29 9:56:55 AM  
I'm real tired of public figures or public servants complaining that their being accused of crimes is politically motivated--as if their positions mean they should be exempt from accusation. Which is exactly what they seem to think.
 
2020-09-29 9:57:48 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]


Who would have thought that Trumpers weren't paying attention to what all the protests were about?
 
2020-09-29 9:59:30 AM  

mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?


Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.
 
2020-09-29 10:06:21 AM  

FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.


But if nothing is deleted, then why come Warner Bros. is giving Zack Snyder $70 million dollars for Justice League reshoots?

Otherwise, that would mean that the Snyder cut never actually existed, and that Warner Bros. is just shelling out the budget of a whole new movie rather than admit it to a zealous and toxic fan base of a very mediocre film!
 
2020-09-29 10:07:50 AM  

FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.


Unless it contains evidence of a crime being committed by your bread and butter. How many cop departments are going to be willing to let you film your tv show if they know you're willing to burn them? You dont play ball with the cops, they dont play ball with you.
 
2020-09-29 10:07:54 AM  

CheetahOlivetti: Chody?

That's his name?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-29 10:07:58 AM  

mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?


Well, that and the fact that the police killed a man for using his headlights.

Which I wish they'd do more often because it annoys me slightly. If your elderly ass can't see the road at night then maybe you should stay home or else get choked to death. I'm talking to you, grandpa.
 
2020-09-29 10:09:07 AM  

FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.


Not to mention, no professional deletes footage when a person dies on film. Their are potential lawsuits and evidence requests that always come up. It could only have been done to destroy evidence.
 
2020-09-29 10:09:56 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Well, that and the fact that the police killed a man for using his headlights.

Which I wish they'd do more often because it annoys me slightly. If your elderly ass can't see the road at night then maybe you should stay home or else get choked to death. I'm talking to you, grandpa.


The lights are less about your seeing than people being able to see you.
 
2020-09-29 10:11:05 AM  

CheetahOlivetti: Chody?

That's his name?


Can't remember, is that a character from Billie Jack, Walking Tall or Alice's Restaurant?
 
2020-09-29 10:13:35 AM  
Hmmm... kind of makes me think that if its happening as a reflexive action without second thought, it must happen quite often. They shouldnt have to remember the cameras are rolling. They should be following Proper Police Procedure.
 
2020-09-29 10:13:56 AM  
"Police Lives Matter
I've got your six"


Six bullets in the back!

Gotta love it when police officers whine about how dangerous their job is.
 
2020-09-29 10:15:33 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]


Ooooo....they are starting to see the PoPo for what they are!  Careful buddy, cognitive dissonance is a real biatch

But but but bLuE LiVeS MatDuRrrRr
 
2020-09-29 10:15:46 AM  

jimjays: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Well, that and the fact that the police killed a man for using his headlights.

Which I wish they'd do more often because it annoys me slightly. If your elderly ass can't see the road at night then maybe you should stay home or else get choked to death. I'm talking to you, grandpa.

The lights are less about your seeing than people being able to see you.


they're like a mask, for your car.
 
2020-09-29 10:17:14 AM  
what? a lying, racist, sack of shiat sheriff in Texas?
No way.
 
2020-09-29 10:17:43 AM  

sinner4ever: It could only have been done to destroy evidence.


I have no doubt that it was this. Still, I'm questioning how it was a jump to "the Sheriff and the General Counsel of the county destroyed the evidence" when it was the people at Live PD who did that. Funny how they weren't charged because they don't have an election to lose...
 
2020-09-29 10:17:49 AM  

jimjays: The lights are less about your seeing than people being able to see you.


Even better.  Equal justice for all: instant death penalty if I see you.
 
2020-09-29 10:20:56 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image image 425x573]


That's a PR guy lying on the ground. He works for trump.
He is 6' 8" and is hit by a very polite group of police with enough body armor that the only injury would be a bit of abrasion because he landed on the concrete instead of the very convenient fresh mud puddle next to the truck.

My contest is not with you, Mr. Mouse, but with the people that accept the video as unscripted.
Poorly executed, yes, but very unlikely.

I would be more inclined to accept a police video as authentic if they had filmed the takedown of the two St. Louis lawyers while they held the BLM protesters at bay.

But that's not what happens to rich, white, republicans in real life.
 
2020-09-29 10:21:35 AM  
"The facts are very clear and let me be very clear," Chody added. "I did not tamper with evidence."

So you saved a copy of the video then?  Cough it up, you criminal.
 
2020-09-29 10:21:42 AM  
Live PD wasn't "controversial" that is patently ridiculous. More than likely this is more lefty nonsense trying to convict an innocent person to push an agenda. Once again, the guy ran from the police, didn't cooperate and was tased, which wouldve happened to anyone who did the same thing. His color is COMPLETELY irrelevant except to the nuts with an agenda. Bunch of delusional loons.
 
2020-09-29 10:21:44 AM  
I like the picture of the cops standing around wearing shirts that say "Police lives matter".
In other words "fark you, black lives don't matter".
 
2020-09-29 10:22:42 AM  

LoneCoon: MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]

An aneurysm will do that to you. Check to make sure your ears aren't bleeding.


On a side note, during CLS training in the Army, I learned that if someone had a head injury and has clear fluid leaking from their nose, you can taste the fluid to see if the injury is really bad. If the fluid is sweet, that's brain fluid and the injury is really severe.  If not, then you just ate someone's nasal mucus.
You might think that's gross, but it's snot.

/ they actually taught us this
 
2020-09-29 10:23:41 AM  

MattytheMouse: FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.

But if nothing is deleted, then why come Warner Bros. is giving Zack Snyder $70 million dollars for Justice League reshoots?

Otherwise, that would mean that the Snyder cut never actually existed, and that Warner Bros. is just shelling out the budget of a whole new movie rather than admit it to a zealous and toxic fan base of a very mediocre film!


CGI work is expensive those Zack cuts have zero CGI done to them so they need to basically make a whole new movie out of those cuts.  Maybe you weren't being serious.
 
2020-09-29 10:24:51 AM  

Dick Gozinya: FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.

Unless it contains evidence of a crime being committed by your bread and butter. How many cop departments are going to be willing to let you film your tv show if they know you're willing to burn them? You dont play ball with the cops, they dont play ball with you.


I've lived with racists all my life, and I feel as though I know how they think better than most people. And, this is probably going to be the most white liberal thing I've ever said, but seeing posts like that reaffirms my belief that the left needs to start incorporating their own dog whistles, and start talking about racial justice and social progress without actually talking about race.

I've observed that many "blue lives" folks actually agree with me on the fundamentals of like, defunding the police. They agree that the Omaha police department shouldn't have $750,000 mine resistant vehicles. They agree that it's bad that the NYP pays out millions in misconduct suits. They agree that civil forfeitures are bad. Etc, etc, etc. The only thing they really disagree on, is how that stuff largely affects marginalized communities. The moment you bring up black people, they just shut the whole thing down, unconsciously or otherwise.
 
2020-09-29 10:24:59 AM  

mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?


Yeah because you are not allowed to delete evidence of a crime. If someone dies and you are filming the cops any idiot knows you must keep that footage. Any credible police department would demand that.
 
2020-09-29 10:29:44 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Considering what shows like Cops and Live PD have done to normalize and even romanticize blatant police abuses of power, I'm surprised they didn't turn this into a Very Special Double Episode.


Never understood that talking point. I have watched episodes of cops for over 20 years and I don't see much evidence of "romanticized abuse of power". If the editing and manipulation were done to achieve that goal, it is certainly lost on me, and I used to do criminal defense for a living. If anything, it shines a light on how dumb some of them are.
 
2020-09-29 10:32:05 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]


jesus
 
2020-09-29 10:34:46 AM  

Cbillrun: Live PD wasn't "controversial" that is patently ridiculous. More than likely this is more lefty nonsense trying to convict an innocent person to push an agenda. Once again, the guy ran from the police, didn't cooperate and was tased, which wouldve happened to anyone who did the same thing. His color is COMPLETELY irrelevant except to the nuts with an agenda. Bunch of delusional loons.


Considering I have you farkied as supports the death penalty for parking tickets this checks out. By the way all those cop shows were controversial as they were copaganda. My dad watched cops and they would be making an arrest saying someone said this that and the other when yeah they didn't say that. It normalized that they don't make mistakes and are an elite force assembled to protect the public. When in actuality they are a bunch of C students that just wanted power. My buddy from high school was a cop for three years, he left to become and electrician because he was four time's as much money and he likes his coworkers now.
 
2020-09-29 10:40:39 AM  

not enough beer: Yeah because you are not allowed to delete evidence of a crime. If someone dies and you are filming the cops any idiot knows you must keep that footage. Any credible police department would demand that.


Sure, but it's not destruction of evidence until you are aware that it's evidence being sought in a criminal investigation.

If I video police taking someone down and hauling them off to jail, I can delete that video if I don't want it taking up space on my phone. If a couple days later police come to me and say "That person died in custody and we're investigating it. Here is a subpœna for that video from your phone." and I've deleted it already, I haven't committed a crime by deleting something that I wasn't aware would be evidence in a criminal investigation.
 
2020-09-29 10:48:19 AM  

mrmopar5287: I haven't committed a crime by deleting something that I wasn't aware would be evidence in a criminal investigation.


lol. Okay, if you say so.
 
2020-09-29 10:50:07 AM  

Cbillrun: Live PD wasn't "controversial" that is patently ridiculous. More than likely this is more lefty nonsense trying to convict an innocent person to push an agenda. Once again, the guy ran from the police, didn't cooperate and was tased, which wouldve happened to anyone who did the same thing. His color is COMPLETELY irrelevant except to the nuts with an agenda. Bunch of delusional loons.


Cry moar
 
2020-09-29 10:50:52 AM  

thehobbes: MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]

Who would have thought that Trumpers weren't paying attention to what all the protests were about?


The BLM-aligned protestors were assembled to demand due process and equal protection of law for all subject to American jurisdiction.  They had no other mission.  Their cause is a just one.
 
2020-09-29 10:52:40 AM  

MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image image 425x573]


Wow, republicans are shocked to learn that the rules they made apply to them too.  This is what you get when you #backtheblue. Unaccountable thugs.  He is lucky to be alive.  A black man would probably be dead.
 
2020-09-29 10:55:46 AM  

mrmopar5287: not enough beer: Yeah because you are not allowed to delete evidence of a crime. If someone dies and you are filming the cops any idiot knows you must keep that footage. Any credible police department would demand that.

Sure, but it's not destruction of evidence until you are aware that it's evidence being sought in a criminal investigation.

If I video police taking someone down and hauling them off to jail, I can delete that video if I don't want it taking up space on my phone. If a couple days later police come to me and say "That person died in custody and we're investigating it. Here is a subpœna for that video from your phone." and I've deleted it already, I haven't committed a crime by deleting something that I wasn't aware would be evidence in a criminal investigation.


The cops were THERE when the video was recorded, it's not like they went back two days later and someone had re-used the tape. That the cops didn't immediately order that video preserved is at least dereliction of duty of the type that should cost someone their job.

That NO ONE thought that video might be important - as either a condemnation or exculpation - suggests those cops are bad at the whole "evidence gathering" part of the job (which is a rather fundamental part of it - more than "harassing people of color" is, anyway), so they should probably find new ones.

// or be made to find new ones
// and I am 100% confident the cops saw this video as a condemnation of their actions, which is why they didn't make any effort to preserve that evidence
 
2020-09-29 10:58:38 AM  

MattytheMouse: FarkBucket18: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Pro-Hint: In video production, nothing is "deleted" in 2020, it's just binned on some storage server. If someone deleted masters, they did it on farking purpose and for a specific reason. 

Do you really think the "bad takes" of modern films or TV shows are just deleted because they weren't used in the final cut of the film? It costs next to nothing to store huge amounts of video data. The originals are always kept, never deleted.

But if nothing is deleted, then why come Warner Bros. is giving Zack Snyder $70 million dollars for Justice League reshoots?

Otherwise, that would mean that the Snyder cut never actually existed, and that Warner Bros. is just shelling out the budget of a whole new movie rather than admit it to a zealous and toxic fan base of a very mediocre film!


The Snyder cut never actually existed. He didn't finish the movie. Reshoots are common in movies when you are editing a movie and find that you don't have the exact shot that you want. It doesn't mean that they deleted the earlier stuff, just that it wasn't good enough.
 
2020-09-29 11:09:17 AM  
See pigs, that's why we hate your guts.   Now put your gun barrel under your chin and pull the trigger.
 
2020-09-29 11:12:41 AM  
Isn't it pretty much standard practice for cops to delete footage liken this?

Lots of stories about cops in CA ripping security camera systems out.

And when Officer Mehserle executed Oscar Grant, they confiscated and destroyed bystanders cellphones. Nobody even said a thing at the time.
 
2020-09-29 11:12:44 AM  

Dr Dreidel: mrmopar5287: not enough beer: Yeah because you are not allowed to delete evidence of a crime. If someone dies and you are filming the cops any idiot knows you must keep that footage. Any credible police department would demand that.

Sure, but it's not destruction of evidence until you are aware that it's evidence being sought in a criminal investigation.

If I video police taking someone down and hauling them off to jail, I can delete that video if I don't want it taking up space on my phone. If a couple days later police come to me and say "That person died in custody and we're investigating it. Here is a subpœna for that video from your phone." and I've deleted it already, I haven't committed a crime by deleting something that I wasn't aware would be evidence in a criminal investigation.

The cops were THERE when the video was recorded, it's not like they went back two days later and someone had re-used the tape. That the cops didn't immediately order that video preserved is at least dereliction of duty of the type that should cost someone their job.

That NO ONE thought that video might be important - as either a condemnation or exculpation - suggests those cops are bad at the whole "evidence gathering" part of the job (which is a rather fundamental part of it - more than "harassing people of color" is, anyway), so they should probably find new ones.

// or be made to find new ones
// and I am 100% confident the cops saw this video as a condemnation of their actions, which is why they didn't make any effort to preserve that evidence


This.
 
2020-09-29 11:13:35 AM  

backhand.slap.of.reason: thehobbes: MattytheMouse: I stumbled upon this tweet and stared at it for fifteen minutes straight, so now you have to, too.
[Fark user image 425x573]

Who would have thought that Trumpers weren't paying attention to what all the protests were about?

The BLM-aligned protestors were assembled to demand due process and equal protection of law for all subject to American jurisdiction.  They had no other mission.  Their cause is a just one.


Oh I agree with you. I've been protesting when it comes to my area. Tear gassed and pepper balled.

Use of force is a huge issue. Parscale getting blind sided and tackled when compliant was bullshiat, as much as I hate the guy. The officer wrote in his affidavit he had pockets that might be able to hide a firearm. Anyone looking at him would see he was unarmed.
 
2020-09-29 11:14:49 AM  
I don't get the whole part where the Live PD producers destroyed the material.  I would be shocked (Shocked!) if they really deliberately destroy all unused footage that quickly even in normal situations.  I'm just a slightly above average geek and I have 88tb of fault tolerant storage in my main array.  I can store some serious shiat.  I have files on there going back to the 90s just in case I might need something some day.  And the super important stuff is stored in multiple places.  If I caught a serious incident on my dashcam(s), it'd be on my array, on a couple portable backups, and clouded in multiple places forever just in case someone ever needed it some day.  If the reeve told me the investigation was closed, it wouldn't make a lick of difference to my retention plan.
 
2020-09-29 11:58:46 AM  
Cops like these are why "ACAB" is a thing. You know the two charged had help doing this, or at the very least other cops that looked the other way. Farked up part is that this dick (Chody) didn't even have the sense to be humble (or even smart) and defer answering questions about the incident, the coverup or his innocence... he had the gall to be angry and whine that someone would even think what he did was wrong. That means both his involvement in the death of Mr. Ambler and the purposeful destruction of evidence in that death.
 
2020-09-29 12:07:59 PM  

mrmopar5287: sinner4ever: It could only have been done to destroy evidence.

I have no doubt that it was this. Still, I'm questioning how it was a jump to "the Sheriff and the General Counsel of the county destroyed the evidence" when it was the people at Live PD who did that. Funny how they weren't charged because they don't have an election to lose...


Because the only logical reason for Live PD to delete the footage of a man dying on camera (which by LAW automatically counts as evidence), was if they were ordered to by the police department.  That order HAD to have come down from the top, i.e. the Sheriff.
 
2020-09-29 12:09:23 PM  

jimjays: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: mrmopar5287: I remember this from a few stories. This was something being filmed for Live PD, and when they decided it wasn't going to air on the show (likely because someone died) they deleted the footage. Then, investigators came looking for the footage and found it was deleted because the just wiped it to reuse storage on the cameras. Now they're turning it into a criminal case?

Well, that and the fact that the police killed a man for using his headlights.

Which I wish they'd do more often because it annoys me slightly. If your elderly ass can't see the road at night then maybe you should stay home or else get choked to death. I'm talking to you, grandpa.

The lights are less about your seeing than people being able to see you.


By that logic, anti-maskers should be driving around with their headlights off.
 
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