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(Reuters)   Turkey is sending Syrians to fight the Armenians at the behest of Azerbaijan while the Russians are sending Ukrainians to reinforce Armenia and I've gone cross-eyed   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Turkey, Bashar al-Assad, Syria, Syrian rebel fighters, northern Syria, Syrian rebels, Azerbaijan, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov  
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1108 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Sep 2020 at 4:41 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-28 4:18:35 PM  
Turkey ... Armenian Genocide ... so that makes sense. Armenians were Christians and easy scapegoats and Turkey needed someone to whip on after being whipped out of Empire.

Armenians were allies with Russia. These are old dislikes - pre New World Order.
 
2020-09-28 4:30:42 PM  
 There is a Youtuber (Bald & Bankrupt) that visits these countries, he's pretty good with the history and showing you how life is like here.  I wish I knew more about this part of the world.  I get these were Soviet States, but that's about the extant of my knowledge.
 
2020-09-28 4:38:41 PM  
Confused? You won't be after this episode of the 2020 dumpster fire.
 
2020-09-28 4:43:50 PM  
This is the exact point I give up on Risk.
 
2020-09-28 4:44:35 PM  
Aren't ethnic wars fun!?
 
2020-09-28 4:45:04 PM  
Turkey vs Russia?
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 4:46:23 PM  
Eh at least the invaders got their asses kicked so far.
 
2020-09-28 4:46:49 PM  
This one is bringing up a whole lot of very old grudges. The soviets kept a lid on it by being dicks to *everyone*.

If that sounds a lot like Yugoslavia... yeah. That.
 
2020-09-28 4:47:08 PM  
If it were only the assholes fighting each other this would be great.  As it is I feel terrible about all the innocent people who are gonna get caught up in this mess.
 
2020-09-28 4:47:43 PM  
Of course there is an interactive map.

https://caucasus.liveuamap.com/
 
2020-09-28 4:48:00 PM  
Monica is just gonna let them, huh?
 
2020-09-28 4:48:06 PM  

raerae1980: There is a Youtuber (Bald & Bankrupt) that visits these countries, he's pretty good with the history and showing you how life is like here.  I wish I knew more about this part of the world.  I get these were Soviet States, but that's about the extant of my knowledge.


I enjoy his youtube channel.  I think he got Covid a few months back and had stopped making content for quite a few months.  Although he must have recovered as I saw he just recently put out some new stuff.
 
2020-09-28 4:48:24 PM  
Someone should sit these little rascals down and explain that both of their cultures are equally shiatty so they should just be friends.
 
2020-09-28 4:51:18 PM  
Just googled it and the top story is a fake Fox News article claiming the US should get involved.  I mean fake as in a third party pretending to be Fox News as opposed to an actaul Fox News story which is just fake news.
 
2020-09-28 4:53:20 PM  
Ya know, if you're still pissed off at what somebody did to your great grandfather, then, I dunno, the middle finger applies.

Deal with reality and move on.
 
2020-09-28 4:55:19 PM  

Cyrene Valantion: This one is bringing up a whole lot of very old grudges. The soviets kept a lid on it by being dicks to *everyone*.

If that sounds a lot like Yugoslavia... yeah. That.


The Soviets couldn't keep a lid on this.

These two started fighting before the USSR split up.
 
2020-09-28 4:57:03 PM  
Any evidence on the Ukraine thing?
 
2020-09-28 4:57:20 PM  
Russians are sending Ukrainians?

First off, how? What? How? Mostly, how the heck...?

Second off, is that a way to send the military to another zone while they shore up their invasion?

Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

This timeline is so confusing.
 
2020-09-28 4:59:44 PM  

JesseL: Confused? You won't be after this episode of the 2020 dumpster fire.


This might help:

ANTHONY BOURDAIN & CNN's "PARTS UNKNOWN

It's his Armenia  episode.
 
2020-09-28 5:00:05 PM  
I haven't read a lot about the siege of Leningrad but my money is on the Russians when it comes down to last man standing.
 
2020-09-28 5:00:27 PM  
Isn't proxy wars the first way to start a world War?
 
2020-09-28 5:02:36 PM  
Subby, what?   One of the ancient rationales for the Turks fighting Armenians is it was too easy to imagine Russia using Armenia as camouflage.  Russia uses Ukrainians because they're invisible.
 
2020-09-28 5:03:30 PM  

waxbeans: Isn't proxy wars the first way to start a world War?


Turkey and Russia are trying, it seems.
 
2020-09-28 5:04:15 PM  
Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU
 
2020-09-28 5:06:59 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?


No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU


Turkey isn't in the EU.
 
2020-09-28 5:07:01 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Looks like Ukraine and the Middle East are at it again.
 
2020-09-28 5:08:03 PM  
"I didn't want to go, but I don't have any money. Life is very hard and poor," said a fighter who had fought in Syria for Ahrar al-Sham, a group that Turkey has supported.

That pretty much sums up what allows wars to go on to begin with.
 
2020-09-28 5:10:20 PM  
Putin sends the low life dumbfarks ''ukrainians separatists'' dying for their god putin. Good riddance.

While Erdogan sends the ISIS-affiliated, pro-kurd genocide scumbags fighting in Syria for him.

Meanwhile armenians and azerbaijanis are getting killed.

Great job, farkers.
 
2020-09-28 5:14:20 PM  

NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


Aha, I was waiting for the "Article 5" comments to appear, as above, it's not an automatic thing. Always reminds me of the TEZ (Total Exclusion Zone) around the Falklands, confusing Civilians since 1982.
 
2020-09-28 5:15:08 PM  

NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.


They're in NATO. That's even better.
 
2020-09-28 5:15:21 PM  

NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.


Soon though
 
2020-09-28 5:15:40 PM  
yaaay, time for WWIII
 
2020-09-28 5:16:08 PM  
george bush and tony blair- gay bar
Youtube 1sJqROHxjDA
 
2020-09-28 5:17:17 PM  

waxbeans: Isn't proxy wars the first way to start a world War?


Wake me up when the Arch Duke gets shot.
 
2020-09-28 5:17:18 PM  

JesseL: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

They're in NATO. That's even better.


Armenia is in the CSTO and they have an Article 4 (mutual defence clause) as well.
 
2020-09-28 5:17:32 PM  

JesseL: They're in NATO. That's even better.


See the other part of my post that you quoted.  Turkey can't get involved in an offensive war and then invoke Article 5 when they start losing.
 
2020-09-28 5:20:44 PM  
Turkey isn't joining the EU any time soon, the EU made it clear that 'solving' Cyprus was going to be part of the cost of joining. And Erdogan isn't interested anymore anyway.
 
2020-09-28 5:21:20 PM  
The Armenian Radio was forwarded subby's headline and asked if it made any sense even to them.

The response was: In principle, yes. But only so many ethnic stereotypes will fit into one joke.
 
2020-09-28 5:26:21 PM  

MikeyFuccon: The Armenian Radio was forwarded subby's headline and asked if it made any sense even to them.


what?
 
2020-09-28 5:27:53 PM  
Where does it say anything about Ukrainians?  And why would they fight for the Russians?

Russian mercenaries are usually Chechens or Serbs.
 
2020-09-28 5:29:12 PM  

Kerr Avon: JesseL: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

They're in NATO. That's even better.

Armenia is in the CSTO and they have an Article 4 (mutual defence clause) as well.


An Armenian friend of mine says that the Russian and Armenian language Twittersphere is all about how, if Biden wins, he will turn the conflict into a world war.

It looks like that message is also getting into American Twitter posts too?

So this is partly Russia trying to make people afraid that Biden will escalate an obscure conflict over an obscure patch of land into a nuclear war. And Turkey and Syria are in on it. And Ukraine is being dragged in so that Biden will be tempted to send troops.

Apparently, if you read Russian, (I don't), the internet is exploding with Biden conspiracy theories and making Armenia look like his pawn to justify going to war in Ukraine.

To which I can only add:  @_@  wtf???
 
2020-09-28 5:30:09 PM  

Kerr Avon: JesseL: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

They're in NATO. That's even better.

Armenia is in the CSTO and they have an Article 4 (mutual defence clause) as well.


This.  Here is a good discussion of it.

/somewhat relevant
 
2020-09-28 5:30:56 PM  

mikaloyd: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

Soon though


Turkey is never getting into the EU.
 
2020-09-28 5:31:19 PM  
Welp, there's that whole region going up in smoke for the next decade.
 
2020-09-28 5:32:34 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Kerr Avon: JesseL: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

They're in NATO. That's even better.

Armenia is in the CSTO and they have an Article 4 (mutual defence clause) as well.

An Armenian friend of mine says that the Russian and Armenian language Twittersphere is all about how, if Biden wins, he will turn the conflict into a world war.

It looks like that message is also getting into American Twitter posts too?

So this is partly Russia trying to make people afraid that Biden will escalate an obscure conflict over an obscure patch of land into a nuclear war. And Turkey and Syria are in on it. And Ukraine is being dragged in so that Biden will be tempted to send troops.

Apparently, if you read Russian, (I don't), the internet is exploding with Biden conspiracy theories and making Armenia look like his pawn to justify going to war in Ukraine.

To which I can only add:  @_@  wtf???


Just file it under the "2020" category, it will fit right in.
 
2020-09-28 5:33:25 PM  
Also, the Russian internet thinks that Americans associate the Dems with going to war, and Republicans with brokering peace (thanks to Trump). Which is another layer of totally upside-down-propaganda that makes a Biden world war seem likely to them.* So who knows what fragments of propaganda get spun out of that, but will have an effect on November's weird election conspiracy theories.

Hopefully none of it.

/*all second hand info for me
 
2020-09-28 5:33:47 PM  
This is just status quo in the Caucasus. Mix the aftermath of WW1, a little bit of genocide by Turkey against Armenia, forceable resettlement and population transfers under Stalin, the Soviet Union putting a lid on rising tensions through the use of force for seventy years.  Once that has simmered release for a few decades of rising tensions and minor skirmishes while politicians of both countries resort to nationalism and perceived grievances to continue control and graft (more so on Azerbaijan with the latter due to the oil revenues). Add in regional powers willing to support their clients with Russia for Armenia and Turkey for Azerbaijan (with gear and support by Israel) and you have the makings for a skirmish/conflict that could last for several weeks or months.
 
2020-09-28 5:56:32 PM  

lolmao500: Eh at least the invaders got their asses kicked so far.


Azerbaijan's making steady gains, and more importantly, they're annihilating Armenia's air defenses with drone strikes. Armenia doesn't have any drones of its own, and an extremely small air force - (4) Su-30s.

Azerbaijan's going to own the skies soon, and that's going to shift the balance considerably, when they can bring their more-significant air assets into play. Might force Russia into open intervention.
 
2020-09-28 5:58:59 PM  

g.fro: mikaloyd: NEDM: Bennie Crabtree: Third off, if Turkey is there, does that mean NATO is going to fight the Armenians?

No, Article 5 doesn't come into play if the NATO member gets themselves in an offensive war all on their own.


mikaloyd: Maybe Turkey can draw in the rest of the EU

Turkey isn't in the EU.

Soon though

Turkey is never getting into the EU.


Yep, seconded, for about the 43rd time. That issue is dead and buried, and both sides put in shovel-work.
 
2020-09-28 6:00:21 PM  
Azerbaijan is retaking territory that is legally theirs (that they haven't controlled in over 20 years).
 
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