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(Reuters)   So, why exactly is oil-rich Venezuela IMPORTING oil from Iran?   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Petroleum, Iranian fuel, waters of the South American country, United States, barrels of fuel, barrels of Venezuelan heavy oil, Atlantic Ocean, OPEC-member nations  
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3250 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 28 Sep 2020 at 11:51 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-28 10:39:43 AM  
Because it's fuel, not oil.

It doesn't come out of the ground as gasoline, it has to be processed.
 
2020-09-28 10:46:36 AM  
Because this is their refining network:

sjvgeology.orgView Full Size



And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.
 
2020-09-28 10:47:44 AM  
The better question is how are they paying for it? They have no money so I'm assuming they are letting Iran build missiles to strike the US inside their country.
 
2020-09-28 11:49:03 AM  
Their country collapsed about 3 years ago and they don't have the ability to refine their own products at a high enough scale to support anything approaching a recovery. That won't change as long as their leadership is disputed.

I'm sure that won't happen anywhere else anytime soon.
 
2020-09-28 11:54:47 AM  
I suspect socialism. Back in the day of the commies, it was said that if Saudi Arabia ever went communist in five years they would be importing oil, and in ten years they would be importing sand.
 
2020-09-28 11:55:25 AM  
Because their oil is sulfur-rich and needs special processing to refine it to a usable fuel, decades of mismanagement and graft have left their infrastructure in shambles, and their economy has collapsed to the point where they're an international basket case?

There are probably more reasons, but that's just what comes to mind.
 
2020-09-28 11:55:41 AM  
Because it's shiatty oil.
 
2020-09-28 11:56:27 AM  
Because implants require refined oil, not crude.  And if there is no refined oil, doctors can't create these:
i2.wp.comView Full Size


/ and this just happens to be a national treasure, with or without plastic.
 
2020-09-28 11:57:33 AM  
So, why exactly is Iran EXPORTING oil to oil-rich Venezuela?
 
2020-09-28 11:58:04 AM  

elgrancerdo: Because implants require refined oil, not crude.  And if there is no refined oil, doctors can't create these:

Fark user imageView Full Size


/ and this just happens to be a national treasure, with or without plastic.


Real Dolls?
 
2020-09-28 11:58:09 AM  
NewportBarGuy: The better question is how are they paying for it? They have no money so I'm assuming they are letting Iran build missiles to strike the US inside their country.

LOL I hope you don't actually believe that.
 
2020-09-28 11:58:14 AM  
The US was their number one customer at one point (think WalMart with a supplier- it essentially owns the supplier due to the demand) but the oil is a lot dirtier than Saudi Arabias. As a result, it needs refining. When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.

There is no sound argument why the US is doing what it is doing to Venezuela. None other than the country doesn't want to bend the knee to US Imperialism. What other nations also refused to bend the knee .... hm ... Libya under Qaddafi, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, Cuba, China ... oh am I seeing a trend?
 
2020-09-28 11:58:40 AM  
The headline sure sounds more remarkable when you completely misrepresent what's happening, Subby. "Gasoline and other motor fuels" is different from "oil" in that it has to have been refined, which Venezuela can't really do right now.
 
2020-09-28 12:00:03 PM  
Because the enemy of your enemy if your friend.
 
2020-09-28 12:00:53 PM  
We export almost as much oil as we import.

2019, the United States exported about 8.47 MMb/d of petroleum

The United States imported about 9.10 MMb/d of petroleum in 2019 from about 90 countries, which included 6.8 MMb/d of crude oil and 2.3 MMb/d of noncrude petroleum liquids and refined petroleum products.
 
2020-09-28 12:02:21 PM  

NewportBarGuy: The better question is how are they paying for it?


It's in the article. They are sending crude oil to Iran in exchange.
 
2020-09-28 12:02:42 PM  

Nadie_AZ: When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.


Venezuela's economy was in a tailspin for about a decade and a half before we throttled back our economic involvement with them. They were shiatting the bed left and right while we were propping up their economy (read: leadership's mismanagement) by buying what they were selling.

Don't let inconvenient things like "chronological accuracy" get in the way of a good "why mean amerikkka pick on innocent brown ppl!1" rant, though!
 
2020-09-28 12:02:54 PM  

iToad: I suspect socialism. Back in the day of the commies, it was said that if Saudi Arabia ever went communist in five years they would be importing oil, and in ten years they would be importing sand.


To Keep Exports Flowing, Saudi Arabia Looks to Import Oil

Saudi Arabia imports sand from Australia

And they managed to do that without communism!

(You could argue that their monarchy is inherently socialist in that it keeps power by doling out oil revenues, and I don't think many people would say you're wrong, but there's also a lot more in it including religious indoctrination among other things)
 
2020-09-28 12:03:10 PM  
 Are they a net oil importer or exporter?

And as everyone's oil production slowly goes down and oil consumption goes up, more countries will become importers.
 
2020-09-28 12:03:58 PM  
This is what happens when you nationalize your critical infrastructure.
 
2020-09-28 12:04:41 PM  

elgrancerdo: Because implants require refined oil, not crude.  And if there is no refined oil, doctors can't create these:
[i2.wp.com image 542x625]

/ and this just happens to be a national treasure, with or without plastic.


Looks like the day shift in a Colombian whorehouse and might also have her own dick.
 
2020-09-28 12:04:52 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The US was their number one customer at one point (think WalMart with a supplier- it essentially owns the supplier due to the demand)


CITGO was PDVSA
 
2020-09-28 12:05:29 PM  
Venezuela buys barrels of oil from Iran at 1 cent apiece.  Venezuela sells the barrels to Mexico for 4 cents apiece.  Then it buys the barrels from Mexico for 7 cents apiece and sells them to the U.S. for 5 cents apiece.  And everyone has a share.
 
2020-09-28 12:05:37 PM  

toraque: Because their oil is sulfur-rich and needs special processing to refine it to a usable fuel, decades of mismanagement and graft have left their infrastructure in shambles, and their economy has collapsed to the point where they're an international basket case?

There are probably more reasons, but that's just what comes to mind.


Venezuelan oil is also a heavy crude that has a low amount of fuel-grade distillates.  While there are refineries that can reprocess heavy crude into fuels, it's easier and cheaper to just export it to someone who's buying heavy crude and import fuel or lighter crude.

This is something that every oil producer does, not just Venezuela.
 
2020-09-28 12:06:28 PM  
It's always fun to see weirdly pro-Maduro posts in threads about Venezuela on this site. I'm sure it's the U.S.'s fault that they never built up refining capacity, just like it's the U.S.'s fault that the country can't supply its population with food.
 
2020-09-28 12:07:01 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.


hooray socialism!
 
2020-09-28 12:07:04 PM  

wantingout: NewportBarGuy: The better question is how are they paying for it? They have no money so I'm assuming they are letting Iran build missiles to strike the US inside their country.

LOL I hope you don't actually believe that.


Do I look like a conspiracy nut? lol

Wait... don't answer that.
 
2020-09-28 12:09:12 PM  

great_tigers: NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.

hooray socialism!


That wasn't Socialism... it was idiocy. If they maintained the oil infrastructure and Hugo wasn't a dictator bribing his army and wasting billions on bullsh*t, they could be running like Norway. They have the resources to do it, they were just run by corrupt assholes. Now, I doubt they ever return to their former glory.
 
2020-09-28 12:09:18 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Their country collapsed about 3 years ago and they don't have the ability to refine their own products at a high enough scale to support anything approaching a recovery. That won't change as long as their leadership is disputed.

I'm sure that won't happen anywhere else anytime soon.


This.
The major refineries in this area all belong to opposing nations. Venezuela barely has money to operate its own pumps. With the prices down there's no where to profitably sell their oil at what it costs them to extract and refine it. It just isn't valuable enough to pay down their debts.
Any deal that favorably solves their economic problem would surely come with a clause that includes detaching Maduro's head from his shoulders. I don't see that ending well.

Iran gives them a way around the embargoes so they can get fuel to keep the lights on. Exactly what Iran gets from that I'm not sure, probably a connection to China (which has been bolstering its Caribbean holdings).
I suspect the US is selectively blockading shipments to give Venezuela enough slack to avoid an immediate crisis.  That may just be kicking the ball down the road to see if they do something about their leadership problems on their own.
 
2020-09-28 12:10:36 PM  

NewportBarGuy: great_tigers: NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.

hooray socialism!

That wasn't Socialism... it was idiocy. If they maintained the oil infrastructure and Hugo wasn't a dictator bribing his army and wasting billions on bullsh*t, they could be running like Norway. They have the resources to do it, they were just run by corrupt assholes. Now, I doubt they ever return to their former glory.


I'll simplify that for you: Socialism.
 
2020-09-28 12:11:47 PM  

great_tigers: NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.

hooray socialism!


Venezuela is a dictatorship.
 
2020-09-28 12:12:12 PM  

Nadie_AZ: There is no sound argument why the US is doing what it is doing to Venezuela.


Every country with petroleum resources that attempted to nationalize those petroleum resources for the benefit of the people living in that country has been attacked by the US.  This policy goes back decades.
 
2020-09-28 12:14:45 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.


But people got CHEAP EGGS! The oil wealth was spread around! Like... butter over too much bread! Where you take a small amount of butter and a lot of bread and give a pat to the poor orphaned kid, but give the rest of the loaf and stick to your already buttered and breaded friends!

/Which is what always happens in a socialism.
 
2020-09-28 12:15:09 PM  

theflatline: great_tigers: NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.

hooray socialism!

Venezuela is a dictatorship.


holy fark. https://reason.com/2017/04/04/f​rom-soc​ialism-to-dictatorship/
 
2020-09-28 12:18:11 PM  
Why use up your stash until needed?
 
2020-09-28 12:19:27 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The US was their number one customer at one point (think WalMart with a supplier- it essentially owns the supplier due to the demand) but the oil is a lot dirtier than Saudi Arabias. As a result, it needs refining. When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.

There is no sound argument why the US is doing what it is doing to Venezuela. None other than the country doesn't want to bend the knee to US Imperialism. What other nations also refused to bend the knee .... hm ... Libya under Qaddafi, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, Cuba, China ... oh am I seeing a trend?


Gee - and the fact that  Venezuela  nationalized all the foreign oil companies without compensation had nothing to do with it... or the fact that their refineries collapsed from lack of maintenance, or the fact that fracking made better oil cheaper and easier to get.

Nah, it's all a deliberate plot to ruin the Socialist Paradise of Venezuela, as if they weren't capable of doing that all by themselves.


https://www.offshore-energy.biz/venez​u​ela-ordered-to-pay-8-7b-for-unlawful-e​xpropriation-of-conocophillips-oil-fie​lds/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/16/​h​ow-venezuela-struck-it-poor-oil-energy​-chavez/
 
2020-09-28 12:19:46 PM  

NewportBarGuy: The better question is how are they paying for it? They have no money so I'm assuming they are letting Iran build missiles to strike the US inside their country.


It's right there in the article:

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 12:19:59 PM  
Obama told them they couldn't drill their way out of the problem.
 
2020-09-28 12:20:26 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The US was their number one customer at one point (think WalMart with a supplier- it essentially owns the supplier due to the demand) but the oil is a lot dirtier than Saudi Arabias. As a result, it needs refining. When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.

There is no sound argument why the US is doing what it is doing to Venezuela. None other than the country doesn't want to bend the knee to US Imperialism. What other nations also refused to bend the knee .... hm ... Libya under Qaddafi, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, Cuba, China ... oh am I seeing a trend?


Yeah there is a trend, all those countries you listed are farking terrible and would sooner kill their people by the millions so that a small group remains in power. Don't give me that but but but the USA derp. We have our problems but we are leagues away from those shiathole nations. That is bullshiat reasoning that Venezuela is the victim in all of this. Its people are held hostage from a corrupt government that they remain powerless to change. The US isn't arbitrarily hurting these poor helpless countries because their feelings got hurt. Stop with that ridiculousness. I have friends who fled here from Venezuela.
 
2020-09-28 12:20:59 PM  

iToad: I suspect socialism. Back in the day of the commies, it was said that if Saudi Arabia ever went communist in five years they would be importing oil, and in ten years they would be importing sand.


Meanwhile, the US imports iPhones, proving that Donald Trump is a communist. Sorry, "commie". How are the precious bodily fluids doing?
 
2020-09-28 12:21:04 PM  

toraque: Because their oil is sulfur-rich and needs special processing to refine it to a usable fuel, decades of mismanagement and graft have left their infrastructure in shambles, and their economy has collapsed to the point where they're an international basket case?

There are probably more reasons, but that's just what comes to mind.


Well, to be fair, ALL crude needs special processing to refine it into a usable fuel, but, yeah, it's more or less this.  Venezuela's reserves are heavy sour (high-sulfur) crude which requires extra refining.  Sulfur, being corrosive and all, means that the refineries processing high-sulfur crude need a high level of maintenance and upkeep.  Their refineries have probably not had said necessary maintenance and upkeep in the past few years of economic/political instability and are breaking/broken down.
 
2020-09-28 12:23:15 PM  

orbister: It's right there in the article:


You didn't like my conspiracy theory for the next season of Jack Ryan on Amazon?

Goddammit. This is why i can't get Hollywood to read my stuff.
 
2020-09-28 12:24:53 PM  

Fissile: Every country with petroleum resources that attempted to nationalize those petroleum resources for the benefit of the people living in that country has been attacked by the US.


Yes, I remember the Canada-US war in the 70s.
 
2020-09-28 12:27:36 PM  

Hachitori: Gee - and the fact that  Venezuela  nationalized all the foreign oil companies without compensation had nothing to do with it... or the fact that their refineries collapsed from lack of maintenance, or the fact that fracking made better oil cheaper and easier to get.


My dads company used to ship equipment to PDVSA.   I remember one voyage after Hugo fired everyone who knew what they were doing.  We had already been paid for the cargo, and when we discharged it in venezuela the government siezed it for customs and essentially left it to rust for 3 years in storage at the port.   Their government siezed their own cargo that they had already paid the shipping fees for.  Bold strategy cotton.
 
2020-09-28 12:28:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: The US was their number one customer at one point (think WalMart with a supplier- it essentially owns the supplier due to the demand) but the oil is a lot dirtier than Saudi Arabias. As a result, it needs refining. When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.

There is no sound argument why the US is doing what it is doing to Venezuela. None other than the country doesn't want to bend the knee to US Imperialism. What other nations also refused to bend the knee .... hm ... Libya under Qaddafi, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, North Korea, Cuba, China ... oh am I seeing a trend?


Yep.  The government blackmailing then eventually nationalizing the oil companies' properties had nothing to do with it. (roll eyes)  Which started during Bush II but then expanded quite a bit under Obama.

Which of course makes it all Trump's fault.
 
2020-09-28 12:29:52 PM  

BigNumber12: Nadie_AZ: When the US decided Socialism Bad In Venezeula, they essentially declared economic war on the country. It's been in a tail spin ever since.

Venezuela's economy was in a tailspin for about a decade and a half before we throttled back our economic involvement with them. They were shiatting the bed left and right while we were propping up their economy (read: leadership's mismanagement) by buying what they were selling.

Don't let inconvenient things like "chronological accuracy" get in the way of a good "why mean amerikkka pick on innocent brown ppl!1" rant, though!


A bit more complicated than that (for both of us).

https://www.history.com/news/venezuel​a​-chavez-maduro-crisis

Chavez rose to power due to the deep austerity measures imposed by their leaders due to loans from the IMF.

Then he starts to spend on his people, but not his oil system.
"Over the next decade and a half, Chavez embarks on a massive social spending binge. "To finance educational, health, food, and housing programs for a population of over 30 million, the government redirected oil profits to address pressing social inequality," Tinker Salas explains. "Chávez era social programs, which significantly reduced poverty, nonetheless increased dependence on oil."

"Though Chavez wanted to diversify the Venezuelan economy, his expensive strategy only increased the dependence upon exported oil. Chavez also strives to build Venezuelan influence, providing subsidized oil to Cuba in exchange for the services of Cuban doctors and teachers. He sells oil to other South American countries and China at below-market rates. At the same time, though, Chavez neglects to spend money maintaining oil facilities, and production declines."

Now I dont know all the details on Maduro, but it appears the people of Venezuela are wavering in their support of him-  they'd be happy if he were removed via election but not by foreign intervention. "Venezuelans want President Maduro out, but most would oppose foreign military intervention to remove him". https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-01-0​8​/venezuelans-want-president-maduro-out​-most-would-oppose-foreign-military

And if he is a blood thirsty tyrant, then why is Guiado still alive and in Venezuela? From 2 weeks ago: "Still, few Venezuelans answered the call. Guaidó appeared at a tribute to the Venezuelan Medical Federation in Caracas." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/​t​he_americas/venezuelas-guaido-calls-su​pporters-to-gather-in-the-midst-of-a-p​andemic/2020/09/10/f5c38a6e-f2e6-11ea-​999c-67ff7bf6a9d2_story.html

And why would he do this?" Venezuela's Maduro pardons more than 100 political opponents ahead of elections"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/​t​he_americas/venezuelas-maduro-pardons-​more-than-100-political-opponents-ahea​d-of-elections/2020/08/31/c5770df0-ebb​f-11ea-b4bc-3a2098fc73d4_story.html

Things just don't add up.
 
2020-09-28 12:37:41 PM  

NewportBarGuy: great_tigers: NewportBarGuy: Because this is their refining network:

[sjvgeology.org image 850x462]


And they have REALLLY nasty crude that needs heavy refining.

They took all the money they made from oil and spent it on stupid shiat and did not invest in any of their oil fields.

hooray socialism!

That wasn't Socialism... it was idiocy. If they maintained the oil infrastructure and Hugo wasn't a dictator bribing his army and wasting billions on bullsh*t, they could be running like Norway. They have the resources to do it, they were just run by corrupt assholes. Now, I doubt they ever return to their former glory.


Because right wing corrupt assholes never eat their seed corn.

Once you could see that Hugo just had to become a personality cult, you knew Venezuela was farked.  Even if he funded the oil fields and refineries, he would have farked something else up.  And when the price of oil tanked, they weren't getting money no matter what shape the oil industry was in, and that's pretty much all Venezuela has.

Nothing will tank an economy (long term) like corruption.  Any bets that population median income and national corruption track almost inversely?
 
2020-09-28 12:40:23 PM  
Venezuela may be down the crapper as a country thanks to Chavez/Maduro, but they still have the MIss Venezuela contest every year.
Here's the recent winner:
Miss Zulia Mariangel Villasmil es la nueva Miss Venezuela 2020
Youtube uqgI7QtRctE
 
2020-09-28 12:43:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Then he starts to spend on his people, but not his oil system.
"Over the next decade and a half, Chavez embarks on a massive social spending binge. "To finance educational, health, food, and housing programs for a population of over 30 million, the government redirected oil profits to address pressing social inequality," Tinker Salas explains. "Chávez era social programs, which significantly reduced poverty, nonetheless increased dependence on oil."


If your gameplan is to finance all of your social spending on oil products, probably not a good idea to fire every competent person in your state run oil company and let your cronies run it into shiat.
 
2020-09-28 12:52:16 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: elgrancerdo: Because implants require refined oil, not crude.  And if there is no refined oil, doctors can't create these:
[Fark user image 542x625]

/ and this just happens to be a national treasure, with or without plastic.

Real Dolls?


Please replace the head: the rest is OK, but I don't care for a dead stare.
 
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