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(Forbes)   A peasant's guide to Trump's Tax returns by a Tax attorney. TL/DR: Yes some of what his did is very shady, but what's REALLY crooked is the incredible extent to which rich people and corporations have set up the tax code to their own advantage   (forbes.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Tax, Taxation in the United States, Taxation, President Trump's tax returns, Tax refund, tax return, Former IRS Commissioner Koskinen, New York Times  
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1337 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Sep 2020 at 11:25 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-09-28 11:53:53 AM  
5 votes:

Magorn: Fart_Machine: bUt tHe rIcH pAy mOrE iN iNcOmE tAx!

The funny thing is, they DON'T really.  The 1% control about 37% of all income in the US and pay ~37% of income taxes.  Nice and fair right?

Not really for two reasons

1) The folks at that end of the Tax bracket receive all sorts of money that isn't technically "income".  Since they only need a fraction of their paychecks for basic necessities, they can play all sorts of games with "deferred compensation" "carryover interest" stock options etc etc to avoid paying "income" taxes on money coming In to them.  Instead, if it's taxed at all it's at the "capital gains" (which is just a fancy name for income) rate which is much lower.

2) But even if they were paying on every penny that STILL wouldn't be fair because of a concept called "the Marginal Cost of Money" which is to day, How "expensive" it is to come up with a certain sum of money for you.  and of course the less you have, the more that same amount "costs"

For example: Your car needs a $400 repair.  What does that mean to you?   IF you are making $10/hr that's an entire week's work before taxes, and probably is unobtainable for you or represents financial ruin.  You'll have to be late on your rent, or avoid buying groceries, or not see the doctor, etc etc

Now, for the guy making $50/hr it's just a day's pay, inconvenient but likely no more than that.

to the guy Making $100/hr it's the same as dropping $20 at the McDonald Drive through

and to the millionaire making $1,000 it wouldn;t even register

same thing with say, a 10% flat tax that conservatives love to tout

to $10/hr guy  $2,000 is a HUGE sum of money and probably repsents all his discretionary income he could use to get out of his poverty

to $100/hr guy $20,000 is leasing the Mercedes AND the BMW or settling for just one

and $1000/hr guy may be forking over $200K but he has the $1.8 million left to dry his tears

now, the guy making 200K, would he really feel the bit if HIS tax rate was 11% and the $22K he paid allowed us to remove Mr $20K a year entirely from the tax rolls?

How about Mr. Millionare?  If he paid 15% and his $300K let us remove FIFTY low-income earners from the roles and gave them that $2k back, would it significantly crimp  his style living on 1.7 million a year as opposed to $1.8?

That's SUPPOSEDLY the system we have, a "Progressive Income Tax System"   but the righ have played so many games with it , we essentially do have a "flat tax" or even a regressive system


I want to make sweet, sweet love to your newsletter.
 
2020-09-28 11:28:09 AM  
5 votes:
bUt tHe rIcH pAy mOrE iN iNcOmE tAx!
 
2020-09-28 1:37:29 PM  
3 votes:
With all the money they save in taxes, the wealth will trickle down any day now!

I'm certain of it THIS time!
 
2020-09-28 11:55:55 AM  
3 votes:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 11:25:13 AM  
3 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Blame the system.


it is almost like everyone in government on both sides of the aisle have one thing in common.
 
2020-09-28 10:45:11 PM  
1 vote:

Ishkur: vikingfan73: Raise the minimum wage, and the people's standard of living will marginally increase for a period of time until businesses increase their prices to absorb those cost increases.

I see how you want to index minimum wage annually to a cost of living increase. Which then increases the cost of goods, which then increases the minimum wage, which increases the cost of goods, etc.

This is actually not what happens.

Businesses don't increase the cost of goods just because you have more money. The price point of products is set at what the market will bear and what the business owner calculates will move full inventory, in which there is a psychological factor just as much (maybe even more so) than an economic one.

If people feel they are being ripped off then they will not buy the product, not matter how much they can afford it.

Labor accounts for about 30% of MSRP so increased labor costs have very little, if any, effect on the final list price of a product.


You're correct in saying that labor approximates 30% on average of a business' revenue.

You seem to be forgetting that the business also needs to buy raw materials to make a product, utilities, machinery, supplies, phone, internet, insurance, et cetera. Each of these items carries an inherent wage burden.

You might also note that FICA, work comp, and unemployment insurance are calculated as a percentage of payroll. As the payroll increases, those costs increase too.  And those costs are also borne by the suppliers to the business.

All of those cost increases go into the product.  The business needs to create enough gross margin to cover its fixed costs so that it can make a profit and continue. Therefore, it needs to increase its prices.

Let's say that the manufacturer's costs increase 10% as these adjustments occur. It will likely attempt to increase its prices to recover. Let's say that they raise them a corresponding 10%. Retailers may need to increase even higher than that to cover their increased labor, and utility costs - and those increases are passed on to you.

Yes, I understand the concept of "what the market will bear". But increases in mandated wage affect every aspect of a business, and those costs are passed through to the consumer. The money has to come from somewhere, and the business does need to earn a profit to survive and continue to employ people.
 
2020-09-28 3:34:27 PM  
1 vote:

Kit Fister: Mrs. Snipes: You're the jerk... jerk: Mrs. Snipes: You're the jerk... jerk: Mrs. Snipes: Can somebody tell me what's going on here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22The%20​%24750%22&src=trend_click&vertical=tre​nds

It appears this person is calling BS, that he DID pay his taxes, $1 Mil and 4.2 Mil for 2016 and 2017, respectively, and everyone's freaking out over nothing.

"...every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie."

While I thought Boobs and Hysteria was a noted scholar on tax law and accounting, it is pretty obvious she does not know what is going on.

In 2016 and 2017 Line 56 provided total tax liability. That was $750. It is possible Trump provided expected payments on top of that which were either subtracted against future liabilities or refunded (there is no way for me to know). They were not paid in those years.

I don't follow much Twitter so I have no idea who that person is. Unfortunately, I know some people who will sight this as absolving trump of any and all possible wrongdoing on anything and everything past, present, and future. (I'm no accountant or tax attorney but I know they aren't, either.)

Also, thanks to Loki900 and Gyrfalcon for seeing that I was indeed asking a question and trying to answer helpfully.

Sorry. I am used only to snark on here.

Bottom line, she is wrong on this. Very wrong. But at the same time continues to insists she is right which is very frustrating. She is not an expert in the field or even a qualified amateur.

No worries at all, I appreciated your help, too.

Shouldn't you ask your husband Wesley? I'd've figured after his stint for tax issues, he'd know a lot about the law...


I apologize, that came off as rude when I intended it as snark only.
 
2020-09-28 3:14:27 PM  
1 vote:

Mrs. Snipes: You're the jerk... jerk: Mrs. Snipes: You're the jerk... jerk: Mrs. Snipes: Can somebody tell me what's going on here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22The%20​%24750%22&src=trend_click&vertical=tre​nds

It appears this person is calling BS, that he DID pay his taxes, $1 Mil and 4.2 Mil for 2016 and 2017, respectively, and everyone's freaking out over nothing.

"...every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie."

While I thought Boobs and Hysteria was a noted scholar on tax law and accounting, it is pretty obvious she does not know what is going on.

In 2016 and 2017 Line 56 provided total tax liability. That was $750. It is possible Trump provided expected payments on top of that which were either subtracted against future liabilities or refunded (there is no way for me to know). They were not paid in those years.

I don't follow much Twitter so I have no idea who that person is. Unfortunately, I know some people who will sight this as absolving trump of any and all possible wrongdoing on anything and everything past, present, and future. (I'm no accountant or tax attorney but I know they aren't, either.)

Also, thanks to Loki900 and Gyrfalcon for seeing that I was indeed asking a question and trying to answer helpfully.

Sorry. I am used only to snark on here.

Bottom line, she is wrong on this. Very wrong. But at the same time continues to insists she is right which is very frustrating. She is not an expert in the field or even a qualified amateur.

No worries at all, I appreciated your help, too.


Shouldn't you ask your husband Wesley? I'd've figured after his stint for tax issues, he'd know a lot about the law...
 
2020-09-28 2:58:42 PM  
1 vote:

A Cave Geek: I keep telling people:  I WISH I could file my taxes the same way these corporations do.  You know, the ones that whine about a 30+% tax rate?  I wish I could file my taxes like they do.  Corporations don't pay taxes on 'revenue'...

That's what most people don't get about corporate taxes.  They don't pay taxes on 'revenue'...only on 'profit'.  They get to deduct EVERY cost of doing business.  Rent, office supplies, chairs, food, advertising, ANYTHING related to the cost of doing business is tax free.

I would HAPPILY pay the full corporate tax rate if I could deduct all my 'expenses' before paying taxes.


This. One of the things that people (everybody, this shiat should really be mandatory, as long as I'm endorsing shiat that is never gonna happen) need to learn about is the tax system. The way it's explained is like the Schoolhouse Rocks version of how a bill becomes a law. Remember how above board and simple that shiat seemed when you were a kid, then you became an adult and heard about shiat like lobbyists and riders and line-item veto? It's like that.

The tax system has always benefited rich white people over the rest of us. Always.
 
2020-09-28 2:00:17 PM  
1 vote:

Neeek: If the IRS was properly funded, Trump would have been in prison for the last 40 years.


Not just Trump, pretty much every major economic disruption except COVID and the political instability caused by nutjobs like the current republican party could have been avoided if we'd gone after white collar crime like we do drug war or just being poor.  We're pretty much a failed state whose elite have crimed it to death and are now trying to strip the last flesh from the bones.
 
2020-09-28 1:56:31 PM  
1 vote:

Kit Fister: Surrender your boo-tah: Magorn: Marcus Aurelius: Blame the system.

Missing the point: He and a lot of people like him ARE the system.   Even if he'd followed the letter of the law (he clearly did not and broke the law)   his taxes would have been obscenely low for his income and that has to do with a system he and others like he designed for themselves.   Amazon, a company with a market cap of $1.58 TRILLION should not be paying zero in corporate taxes either.  Take Trump down and certainly lock him up, but don't indulge in high-fives all around and string up a "mission Accomplished" banner, there's a lot more work to be done after that.

I disagree, corporate taxes should be zero. Capital gains taxes on the other hand...

I disagree with you both. Corporations should be taxed, and tax write-offs for corporations should be replaced with things like the following:

- Write off a percentage based on the total number of employees you hired.
- Write off a greater percentage based on the total number of employees you've had for more than 5 years.
- Write off a percentage based on raises given to workers at the lowest end of your pay scale.
- Write off a percentage of the costs for opening facilities in the US.
- Write off a greater percentage of the costs for opening facilities in the US if they were opened in low-income areas.
- Write off a percentage of funds invested in your local community.
- Write off a percentage of costs to provide education, day care services, and so on to employees.
- Write off a percentage based on number of workers promoted to fill positions vs. hiring external candidates.
- Write off a percentage of the costs to replace polluting infrastructure/equipment/systems with green technologies.

etc. etc.

If they want to write off as much as they can and lower their tax bill, they can do so by doing things that directly impact and improve the economic prospects of the people of the US.


Let's say that your proposed tax code goes into effect and taxes on the evil corporations increase.

Is it safe to assume that you're OK with price increases for your goods and services that you purchase from the evil corporations so that they can pay their taxes?
 
2020-09-28 12:37:40 PM  
1 vote:

thealgorerhythm: Bullshiat.

Paying your kids consulting fees for the company when they're already employees is straight-up ghost employment and a felony.

Declaring properties of the corporation as your your domicile and deducting their expenses means you're homeless. So either he's been voting illegally for years, or he owes some homestead taxes somewhere.


Homeless have the right to vote as well. So STFU.

/Not a trump supporter
//Trump isn't homeless trump is a tax cheat
///There had to be a lawsuit in my state to ensure homeless can vote so don't spread that BS
 
2020-09-28 12:26:54 PM  
1 vote:

Mrs. Snipes: Can somebody tell me what's going on here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22The%20​%24750%22&src=trend_click&vertical=tre​nds

It appears this person is calling BS, that he DID pay his taxes, $1 Mil and 4.2 Mil for 2016 and 2017, respectively, and everyone's freaking out over nothing.

"...every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie."


It appears what's going on here is that you mistakenly feel a lone Twitter account with the handle "boobs and hysteria" is a credible source of critique on the New York Times while literally a planet of journalists and tax experts are now checking up on them.
 
2020-09-28 11:49:06 AM  
1 vote:

Fart_Machine: bUt tHe rIcH pAy mOrE iN iNcOmE tAx!


The funny thing is, they DON'T really.  The 1% control about 37% of all income in the US and pay ~37% of income taxes.  Nice and fair right?

Not really for two reasons

1) The folks at that end of the Tax bracket receive all sorts of money that isn't technically "income".  Since they only need a fraction of their paychecks for basic necessities, they can play all sorts of games with "deferred compensation" "carryover interest" stock options etc etc to avoid paying "income" taxes on money coming In to them.  Instead, if it's taxed at all it's at the "capital gains" (which is just a fancy name for income) rate which is much lower.

2) But even if they were paying on every penny that STILL wouldn't be fair because of a concept called "the Marginal Cost of Money" which is to day, How "expensive" it is to come up with a certain sum of money for you.  and of course the less you have, the more that same amount "costs"

For example: Your car needs a $400 repair.  What does that mean to you?   IF you are making $10/hr that's an entire week's work before taxes, and probably is unobtainable for you or represents financial ruin.  You'll have to be late on your rent, or avoid buying groceries, or not see the doctor, etc etc

Now, for the guy making $50/hr it's just a day's pay, inconvenient but likely no more than that.

to the guy Making $100/hr it's the same as dropping $20 at the McDonald Drive through

and to the millionaire making $1,000 it wouldn;t even register

same thing with say, a 10% flat tax that conservatives love to tout

to $10/hr guy  $2,000 is a HUGE sum of money and probably repsents all his discretionary income he could use to get out of his poverty

to $100/hr guy $20,000 is leasing the Mercedes AND the BMW or settling for just one

and $1000/hr guy may be forking over $200K but he has the $1.8 million left to dry his tears

now, the guy making 200K, would he really feel the bit if HIS tax rate was 11% and the $22K he paid allowed us to remove Mr $20K a year entirely from the tax rolls?

How about Mr. Millionare?  If he paid 15% and his $300K let us remove FIFTY low-income earners from the roles and gave them that $2k back, would it significantly crimp  his style living on 1.7 million a year as opposed to $1.8?

That's SUPPOSEDLY the system we have, a "Progressive Income Tax System"   but the righ have played so many games with it , we essentially do have a "flat tax" or even a regressive system
 
2020-09-28 11:46:53 AM  
1 vote:
Apparently everyone missed the article on here that pointed out that the rich on average pay waaaaay more in taxes than Trump did, even when he paid. Sure, the rich find loopholes and shelters, but this claim is whataboutism at its finest, because in average, they still pay in the millions. Fix Trump now, worry about tax shelters later.

Between the writing off veterans, the downplaying the Coronavirus, and this, Donnie has had a horrible 6 weeks or so, and I think it's eroding his base nicely.
 
2020-09-28 11:38:27 AM  
1 vote:
"Shady, but not illegal! Shady is just another word for shrewd or clever!"

/papermate, libbys-libbys-libbys on the label-label-label
 
2020-09-28 11:31:28 AM  
1 vote:
A capitalist system should tax capital not labor, because capital is receiving the benefits of government.

The fact that we even have an income tax, or corporate income taxes in a system that is supposed to be a free market of some sort is an extreme perversion.

Companies and people should be paying taxes based on their net worth. Are you worth $100B dollars? Congrats you are paying $2B per year. When you sell a company for $50B that you claimed was worth $20B for years, you have to pay all the back taxes and interest, and penalties as part of the transaction. Etc etc
 
2020-09-28 11:31:07 AM  
1 vote:
If only there was someone running for office who has been a part of writing those tax laws for years who I could vote against in the coming election.
 
2020-09-28 11:28:28 AM  
1 vote:

enry: Magorn: Marcus Aurelius: Blame the system.

Missing the point: He and a lot of people like him ARE the system.   Even if he'd followed the letter of the law (he clearly did not and broke the law)   his taxes would have been obscenely low for his income and that has to do with a system he and others like he designed for themselves.   Amazon, a company with a market cap of $1.58 TRILLION should not be paying zero in corporate taxes either.  Take Trump down and certainly lock him up, but don't indulge in high-fives all around and string up a "mission Accomplished" banner, there's a lot more work to be done after that.

Point of order: you're right, but don't focus on their market cap.  That's just looking at what people think Amazon is worth.  Amazon doesn't have that money sitting in the bank and they collected a tiny.portion of it.

Focus on profit or even revenue. Focus on the state and local income taxes they now collect that they didn't before (assuming you're on the other side and think they already 'pay' taxes), but market cap is a craptastic way to determine what taxes a company should pay.


Perhaps a 1% federal SALES tax. . .
 
2020-09-28 11:10:47 AM  
1 vote:
Well if I didn't get that ROI on my lobbying and influence-peddling efforts, I wouldn't be a very good businessman now would I?

/lights cigar with benjamin
 
2020-09-28 10:42:04 AM  
1 vote:
I keep telling people:  I WISH I could file my taxes the same way these corporations do.  You know, the ones that whine about a 30+% tax rate?  I wish I could file my taxes like they do.  Corporations don't pay taxes on 'revenue'...

That's what most people don't get about corporate taxes.  They don't pay taxes on 'revenue'...only on 'profit'.  They get to deduct EVERY cost of doing business.  Rent, office supplies, chairs, food, advertising, ANYTHING related to the cost of doing business is tax free.

I would HAPPILY pay the full corporate tax rate if I could deduct all my 'expenses' before paying taxes.
 
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