Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Week)   The Black wealth gap proves racism is alive and well   (theweek.com) divider line
    More: Murica, African American, Black people, Black family, White people, Race, Black families, fraction of the wealth of white Americans, African Americans  
•       •       •

603 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Sep 2020 at 5:19 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-09-28 5:39:20 AM  
I know there are wealth Gaps, not here to argue the existence of them.
However the average black family net worth of under 17K....
I don't know, that seems awfully low and I just assumed non whites and especially non white women make A LOT LESS than their equivalent white counterpart.
But THAT much lower??
You'd think it would of been brought to the for front a long time ago or horribly faken advantaged of by corporations.
Why pay Mr. White  $100,000 when I can pay Mr. Black $50,000 or less for the same job and demand more out of him??
 
2020-09-28 6:22:20 AM  
The wealth gap lists the worth, not income. And yes corporations have been taking advantage of the wealth gap.

/ Can you say usury, I knew you could.
// And to repeat again, the game has been rigged, it has always been rigged. Difference is there has been nobody standing up to those that rig the game, so life keeps being skewed in favor of those with wealth, even more.
/// At some point the system gets a correction, or failing that, a reset. No snark just cold, dead analysis.
 
2020-09-28 6:37:28 AM  

TotallyRealNotFake: I know there are wealth Gaps, not here to argue the existence of them.
However the average black family net worth of under 17K....
I don't know, that seems awfully low and I just assumed non whites and especially non white women make A LOT LESS than their equivalent white counterpart.
But THAT much lower??
You'd think it would of been brought to the for front a long time ago or horribly faken advantaged of by corporations.
Why pay Mr. White  $100,000 when I can pay Mr. Black $50,000 or less for the same job and demand more out of him??


It is, but not that blatantly.   You see, when they were hired, Mr. White successfully argued for a higher salary because he had an offer from another company, so he started at 60k.  Mr Black started at 50k.  The next year, Mr Black got uppity, using his above-average profitability to push for a $5k raise instead of $2k, while Mr White got a talking to regarding his less than acceptable work speed 'but you're going to make a fine engineer one day, the quality of your work is quite high' so he got a $6k raise.

Fast forward five years.  They both have professional licensing.  Mr White has been placed in charge of a team of interns, so between annual raises and whatnot he's making $100k.  Mr Black, on the other hand, isn't management material so he's making $65k.

Oh, and Mr White's family paid for a third of his education, with a lacrosse scholarship covering another third, leaving a third of the cost of his college as low-interest student loans.  Mr Black's family couldn't help him, and his scholarship for academic excellence was only 10%, with the remainder being high-interest loans.

Meanwhile, Mr. Shen, an H1-B with ten years of experience, is making $50k.

/The names are odd; Every Mr White I've known has been African American.
//Every Mr Black I've known has been white.
///Oh, and add to all of the above, Mr White was able to intern over the college summers for a firm a friend of the family owned, while Mr Black had to work three part time minimum wage jobs to make sure he didn't starve.
 
2020-09-28 6:54:42 AM  
Cleveland Fed dug into this last year.  Their conclusion: the difference in initial wealth conditions drops off very quickly as the primary driver of the gap, with income disparities as the primary cause.

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom​-​and-events/publications/economic-comme​ntary/2019-economic-commentaries/ec-20​1903-what-is-behind-the-persistence-of​-the-racial-wealth-gap.aspx
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 7:09:52 AM  
The Dubois Cook center had a different take, and seems to form the basis of the Week's oped. Worth reading to get a more nuanced perspective:

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-cont​e​nt/uploads/2020/01/what-we-get-wrong.p​df
 
2020-09-28 7:57:09 AM  
I was annoyed by the use of "typical" so I dug more into it.  They meant median, which is good, as it is preferable.
Fark user imageView Full Size

I'm surprised it's really that large.  I could see average when you pull in the Dukes and the Vanderbilts and what not, but as a median?  That's really out of whack.

I also dug in to the inheritance thing.  22.5% of total Americans get an inheritance and the median value is $69,000.  Disparity creeps in here too.  The more wealth a family already has, the more wealth it can expect to inherit.  No surprise there.
 
2020-09-28 8:44:52 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I was annoyed by the use of "typical" so I dug more into it.  They meant median, which is good, as it is preferable.
[Fark user image image 768x369]
I'm surprised it's really that large.  I could see average when you pull in the Dukes and the Vanderbilts and what not, but as a median?  That's really out of whack.

I also dug in to the inheritance thing.  22.5% of total Americans get an inheritance and the median value is $69,000.  Disparity creeps in here too.  The more wealth a family already has, the more wealth it can expect to inherit.  No surprise there.


Housing.  You can't get much wealth from a redlined neighborhood unless you're a slumlord.
 
2020-09-28 8:47:42 AM  

Izunbacol: The Dubois Cook center had a different take, and seems to form the basis of the Week's oped. Worth reading to get a more nuanced perspective:

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-conte​nt/uploads/2020/01/what-we-get-wrong.p​df


Thanks for the link. The study is a great read.
 
2020-09-28 9:00:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 9:16:40 AM  

Exception Collection: It is, but not that blatantly.   You see, when they were hired, Mr. White successfully argued for a higher salary because he had an offer from another company, so he started at 60k.  Mr Black started at 50k.  The next year, Mr Black got uppity, using his above-average profitability to push for a $5k raise instead of $2k...


In my experience, your take is incredibly accurate - and not because I'm black (I'm not) but because I grew up poor. Had to pay 100% of college costs myself. I'll never have an inheritance. Had to work constantly during high school and college to pay my bills, though never worked in my field until graduation. I definitely didn't grow up with any network connections and was saddled with incredible debt when starting out as a professional. Even at 40, it means I've not been able to save any substantial nest egg despite a near $100k/yr salary - it's all going to pay for the things I had to pay for myself (ie everything). If only my parents had had a little more money, everything would have been a lot easier to start with, and that shiat compounds over time, no matter the colour of your skin. I can only imagine what it must feel like to grow up poor and black or indigenous.
 
2020-09-28 9:27:21 AM  

TotallyRealNotFake: I know there are wealth Gaps, not here to argue the existence of them.
However the average black family net worth of under 17K....
I don't know, that seems awfully low and I just assumed non whites and especially non white women make A LOT LESS than their equivalent white counterpart.
But THAT much lower??
You'd think it would of been brought to the for front a long time ago or horribly faken advantaged of by corporations.
Why pay Mr. White  $100,000 when I can pay Mr. Black $50,000 or less for the same job and demand more out of him??


Because he's black. God knows what happens if he starts mixing with the other employees, meeting their daughters at the office picnic, getting into the supply closet. The costs would be incalculable.

/s
 
2020-09-28 9:39:40 AM  
The world owes you nothing.
 
2020-09-28 9:42:26 AM  

TotallyRealNotFake: I know there are wealth Gaps, not here to argue the existence of them.
However the average black family net worth of under 17K....
I don't know, that seems awfully low and I just assumed non whites and especially non white women make A LOT LESS than their equivalent white counterpart.
But THAT much lower??
You'd think it would of been brought to the for front a long time ago or horribly faken advantaged of by corporations.
Why pay Mr. White  $100,000 when I can pay Mr. Black $50,000 or less for the same job and demand more out of him??


The same question is asked when someone mentions the gender pay gap; why pay a man $1 if you can pay a woman $0.70 (or whatever the number is)? But it's not a question of real value, it's a question of perceived value. The person paying that salary doesn't perceive what the woman is doing there as being as valuable to the business EVEN WHEN SHE IS DOING THE SAME (or more!) WORK. Traits considered to be positives in male (or buddy-buddy white) employees and worth rewarding are often considered to be negatives in female (or black) employees and they get bad marks for. Hell, it shows up all over - in auditions for the highest level of world orchestras, expert-trained ears would judge a woman's playing to be worse than men's - but only when they could SEE that they were women. When the auditions were done blindly, the women tended to get parts more equivalent to their actual playing ability.
 
2020-09-28 9:45:19 AM  

stellarossa: The world owes you nothing.


Well, if I take that as addressed to me, it's certainly true.
The world owes ME nothing, for sure.
 
2020-09-28 10:03:15 AM  

brizzle365: me looking for my $171k

[i.kym-cdn.com image 426x213] [View Full Size image _x_]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 10:05:51 AM  
High high school drop-out rates are not helping Blacks move up the economic scale.


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/ed​u​cation-data/state-high-school-graduati​on-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

"Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent."
 
2020-09-28 10:33:59 AM  

G. Tarrant: TotallyRealNotFake: I know there are wealth Gaps, not here to argue the existence of them.
However the average black family net worth of under 17K....
I don't know, that seems awfully low and I just assumed non whites and especially non white women make A LOT LESS than their equivalent white counterpart.
But THAT much lower??
You'd think it would of been brought to the for front a long time ago or horribly faken advantaged of by corporations.
Why pay Mr. White  $100,000 when I can pay Mr. Black $50,000 or less for the same job and demand more out of him??

The same question is asked when someone mentions the gender pay gap; why pay a man $1 if you can pay a woman $0.70 (or whatever the number is)? But it's not a question of real value, it's a question of perceived value. The person paying that salary doesn't perceive what the woman is doing there as being as valuable to the business EVEN WHEN SHE IS DOING THE SAME (or more!) WORK. Traits considered to be positives in male (or buddy-buddy white) employees and worth rewarding are often considered to be negatives in female (or black) employees and they get bad marks for. Hell, it shows up all over - in auditions for the highest level of world orchestras, expert-trained ears would judge a woman's playing to be worse than men's - but only when they could SEE that they were women. When the auditions were done blindly, the women tended to get parts more equivalent to their actual playing ability.


If there was a real 30 cent an hour pay gap for the same work, there would be companies that would exploit the hell out of that, and become richer than Bezos.  The fact that a single company hasn't figured out how to do it shows it's not real.
 
2020-09-28 10:46:28 AM  
All ___ people, poor and wealthy, all as one average as if they have jack shat to do with each other.

The ___ skinned person living without running water or electricity that includes squirrel and opossum on their dinner table ain't the fook involved in making that wealth gap.

It's articles like this, that draw the lines along skin color INSTEAD OF WEALTH, that are why all the DUMB POOR PEOPLE, they are, their education is for shat and we all know it.
Black or white don't the fook change shiat about  poor and ignorant.
Just helps the poor dumb whites be more easily indoctrinated to racism and not notice how all the poors just get the hard fooking by the wealthy, regardless of their skin color.


Poor mofo squatting in abandon buildings and not eating without catching and killing it actually exists, and as long as you keep lumping tghem in with the wealthy ones, this shiat is NEVER CHANGING.


REALITY IS:
CLASSISM

The illusions to keep the stupid poors from figuring it out:
RACISM.

As long as our minds are so narrow as to stop thinking after considering skin color, so ignorant as to not understand that RACE is not interchangeable with CULTURE.
Once is real, the other just make believe.
A make believe that pretends feather is an impermeable barrier that makes it so we can't share with you and you can't become one with us.

BUT THAT'S A FOOKING LIE.

You can share a culture with ANYONE.
Anyone can choose to change their own behaviors and take on a new cultural norm if they want to.
Race is a lie told by assholes to trick stupid people into believing that's impossible.


Have you been fooled by that? Do you spread the lie of race, when the truth is CULTURE, and that we can in fact CHOOSE that for ourselves, regardless of what color skin we got out of the DNA LOTTO that is our existence?
 
2020-09-28 11:10:53 AM  
I'd imagine the gap would be pretty significant considering you're going to be averaging in Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and Jeff Bezos.  You average them in and of course "white" people are going to have a ridiculously high average wealth.
 
2020-09-28 12:12:28 PM  

Hachitori: High high school drop-out rates are not helping Blacks move up the economic scale.


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/edu​cation-data/state-high-school-graduati​on-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

"Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent."


That's racist /s

As is pointing out that membership in gangs for black Americans is 300% of their population ratio.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Which leads directly to incarceration statistics.

Not many companies look for that on a resume.
 
2020-09-28 12:35:17 PM  

jaytkay: [Fark user image image 850x478]


Do you know how hard it is to be poor and white?

Like, you have to really work at it. It requires a concerted effort to suck, sustained over multiple generations.
 
2020-09-28 12:36:35 PM  

RussianPotato: I'd imagine the gap would be pretty significant considering you're going to be averaging in Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and Jeff Bezos.  You average them in and of course "white" people are going to have a ridiculously high average wealth.


Elon, Bill, and Jeff have farkall to do with medians.
 
2020-09-28 12:40:42 PM  

Rapmaster2000: brizzle365: me looking for my $171k

[i.kym-cdn.com image 426x213] [View Full Size image _x_]

[Fark user image image 850x637]


Honestly, I was surprised the white median was so low. That's half of a house, and assuming no investments.

There are way too many F-Teen Thousand King Laramie Ranch LoneStar Cowboy Caviar special edition 4x4 King Cab chromed out pickemup trucks for that figure to be so low.
 
2020-09-28 12:45:18 PM  

AngryDragon: As is pointing out that membership in gangs for black Americans is 300% of their population ratio.


Define 'gang' in an objective way.  Is the Eastern Hamilton County Gun Club a gang? The Proud Boys?  A Masonic lodge? The Trump Family?
 
2020-09-28 12:46:33 PM  

AngryDragon: Hachitori: High high school drop-out rates are not helping Blacks move up the economic scale.


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/edu​cation-data/state-high-school-graduati​on-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

"Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent."

That's racist /s

As is pointing out that membership in gangs for black Americans is 300% of their population ratio.

[Fark user image 682x432]

Which leads directly to incarceration statistics.

Not many companies look for that on a resume.


Bringing up statistics isn't racist. Implying black people commit more crimes and do worse in school because they are black instead of looking at root causes for WHY those things are happening IS racist however.

If quality of schools are based on property taxes of surrounding areas, what affect will that have on black schools? Why is there such a large discrepancy in property values for black neighborhoods?

Why are blacks stopped by police more and assumed to be criminals more often? Why are blacks initially charged with more severe crimes? Why is bail higher for blacks? Why are they significantly more likely to get longer sentences for the exact same crime? https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-asked​-​harvard-to-find-out-why-so-many-black-​peo-1845017462

It's almost like there is some type of...systemic... issue at play relating to race?
 
2020-09-28 12:47:18 PM  

Izunbacol: Rapmaster2000: brizzle365: me looking for my $171k

[i.kym-cdn.com image 426x213] [View Full Size image _x_]

[Fark user image image 850x637]

Honestly, I was surprised the white median was so low. That's half of a house, and assuming no investments.

There are way too many F-Teen Thousand King Laramie Ranch LoneStar Cowboy Caviar special edition 4x4 King Cab chromed out pickemup trucks for that figure to be so low.


Yeah, but they are up to their knees in a 72 month loan on that truck, so the actual contribution to their net worth from that thing is low.
 
2020-09-28 1:04:31 PM  

slantsix: Exception Collection: It is, but not that blatantly.   You see, when they were hired, Mr. White successfully argued for a higher salary because he had an offer from another company, so he started at 60k.  Mr Black started at 50k.  The next year, Mr Black got uppity, using his above-average profitability to push for a $5k raise instead of $2k...

In my experience, your take is incredibly accurate - and not because I'm black (I'm not) but because I grew up poor. Had to pay 100% of college costs myself. I'll never have an inheritance. Had to work constantly during high school and college to pay my bills, though never worked in my field until graduation. I definitely didn't grow up with any network connections and was saddled with incredible debt when starting out as a professional. Even at 40, it means I've not been able to save any substantial nest egg despite a near $100k/yr salary - it's all going to pay for the things I had to pay for myself (ie everything). If only my parents had had a little more money, everything would have been a lot easier to start with, and that shiat compounds over time, no matter the colour of your skin. I can only imagine what it must feel like to grow up poor and black or indigenous.


Yes, but are you ever followed around in stores? Did your elementary teachers automatically dismiss you as a failure, and openly treat you differently, specifically because you were black?

Was your Army engineer father denied a job in his field because he wasn't white, forcing him to raise his daughters in redlined, poorer neighborhoods?

Did you ever travel to see relatives down South, and never stay in hotels, because they don't like "coloreds?" Have you ever had gas station owners yell at your 6'6, platoon sergeant dad, who just came back from serving two tours of duty in Vietnam, saying he can buy his gas, but those "n***a gals" will never use his toilet?

Have you ever been pulled over by the cops? Have you ever been forced to sit on the curb with your hands cuffed behind your back, while the police searched your car? Did they find nothing, because they pulled you over for nothing, but sent you home with a warning anyway, because cops are never wrong?

Or have you ever been pulled over by the cops while riding in the passenger side of your white male friend's car? Did they ever farking ask your friend if he knew you, or if you were a prostitute, right the fark in front of your face?

Did you ever have to use dangerous chemicals containing lye to straighten your hair to make it more pleasing to white people? Did you ever want to lighten your skin to be more pleasing to white people? Did you ever want to be any other ethnicity and/or gender other than that of a white male?

Have you ever been an affirmative action hire for a really good job? Did you appreciate the hell out of it, because not only were you the first in your family to get that type of job, you were the first to even graduate from college? And at that job, were you continually passed over for promotions , because your college degree and on air experience couldn't compete with the high school diploma, and perky tits of the blonde haired, blue eyed white girl?

Do you ever get overcharged for a car, or house, because you're black? Does your doctor tell you you couldn't possibly be in pain because, "blacks have less sensitive nerve endings?" Ever had a white gyno doc do a pap smear on you, and have his fingers probe you a little longer than he should? It's because he assumed there was no way you could be black, and still a virgin at 18?

Do you find yourself at 51 years old, with a master's degree, cleaning buildings? Do you lie awake at night, fearful for the young black men in your family being pulled over by cops, or harassed by a random white supremacist for being in the wrong neighborhood, dating the wrong white girl, at the wrong time?

Did you ever lose a family member or friend to gang or police violence? Did you ever have to join a gang?

Do you even farking know what its like to be discriminated against, both subtlety and overtly? Have you ever been called one of the most degrading, and dehumanizing, if not outright dangerous word, perhaps in the history of race? (It's a social construct!) And even though you hear young rappers throw it around like a badge of honor, you know that if any of them heard it from you, fists will be thrown? The irony is, you also have the power to back up your aggression, with little to no interference from the authorities. Because when you say it, there is nothing good, musical, or funny about it. We use it to reclaim it. You use it to be cruel and nasty. And you seem like the type to actually have the nerve to be jealous that you can't use your degrading insult the way we do!

Fark you, and your weak ass comparisons and "whatabout-isms."  You grew up poor. So the fark did I. Don't ever compare being a poor white boy, to being African American. You have no goddamned idea, and it makes you sound bitter and racist. We blacks didn't make your life miserable. Your fellow white compatriots did. Now that you're in their upper ranks, you should appreciate that. Cause you get to be white, and pretend you know what suffering is. You have no farking idea.
 
2020-09-28 1:26:45 PM  

G. Tarrant: Izunbacol: Rapmaster2000: brizzle365: me looking for my $171k

[i.kym-cdn.com image 426x213] [View Full Size image _x_]

[Fark user image image 850x637]

Honestly, I was surprised the white median was so low. That's half of a house, and assuming no investments.

There are way too many F-Teen Thousand King Laramie Ranch LoneStar Cowboy Caviar special edition 4x4 King Cab chromed out pickemup trucks for that figure to be so low.

Yeah, but they are up to their knees in a 72 month loan on that truck, so the actual contribution to their net worth from that thing is low.


Came here to say this.  It's because Santander will give you an 84 month loan.  It's because you can do a cash out refi and buy the truck of your dreams.
 
2020-09-28 1:29:08 PM  

caljar: If there was a real 30 cent an hour pay gap for the same work, there would be companies that would exploit the hell out of that, and become richer than Bezos.


In other words, "race and gender discrimination areimpossible because companies will always pay equally for equal work regardless of any other factors."

It's science!!

/ In the minds of spoiled privileged dimwits.
 
2020-09-28 2:55:52 PM  
Here's a thought:

Let's stop looking for more ways to prove racism is real, and start working on how to farking fix it, k?

Everyone capable of being convinced that racism (especially institutional racism) is real is already convinced. Anyone who doesn't already believe institutional racism is real will never come around, even if Jesus, George Washington, and Ronald Regan flew down from heaven in a chariot pulled by the souls of enslaved people of color and said "Yup, we designed a system that lifts up the white man on the backs of everyone else, and we did it on purpose."
 
2020-09-28 3:03:28 PM  

PvtStash: All ___ people, poor and wealthy, all as one average as if they have jack shat to do with each other.

The ___ skinned person living without running water or electricity that includes squirrel and opossum on their dinner table ain't the fook involved in making that wealth gap.

It's articles like this, that draw the lines along skin color INSTEAD OF WEALTH, that are why all the DUMB POOR PEOPLE, they are, their education is for shat and we all know it.
Black or white don't the fook change shiat about  poor and ignorant.
Just helps the poor dumb whites be more easily indoctrinated to racism and not notice how all the poors just get the hard fooking by the wealthy, regardless of their skin color.


Poor mofo squatting in abandon buildings and not eating without catching and killing it actually exists, and as long as you keep lumping tghem in with the wealthy ones, this shiat is NEVER CHANGING.


REALITY IS:
CLASSISM

The illusions to keep the stupid poors from figuring it out:
RACISM.

As long as our minds are so narrow as to stop thinking after considering skin color, so ignorant as to not understand that RACE is not interchangeable with CULTURE.
Once is real, the other just make believe.
A make believe that pretends feather is an impermeable barrier that makes it so we can't share with you and you can't become one with us.

BUT THAT'S A FOOKING LIE.

You can share a culture with ANYONE.
Anyone can choose to change their own behaviors and take on a new cultural norm if they want to.
Race is a lie told by assholes to trick stupid people into believing that's impossible.


Have you been fooled by that? Do you spread the lie of race, when the truth is CULTURE, and that we can in fact CHOOSE that for ourselves, regardless of what color skin we got out of the DNA LOTTO that is our existence?


You do realise that classism and racism can both exist, right?
 
2020-09-28 3:08:26 PM  

BlackChickWhiteAccent: slantsix: Exception Collection: It is, but not that blatantly.   You see, when they were hired, Mr. White successfully argued for a higher salary because he had an offer from another company, so he started at 60k.  Mr Black started at 50k.  The next year, Mr Black got uppity, using his above-average profitability to push for a $5k raise instead of $2k...

In my experience, your take is incredibly accurate - and not because I'm black (I'm not) but because I grew up poor. Had to pay 100% of college costs myself. I'll never have an inheritance. Had to work constantly during high school and college to pay my bills, though never worked in my field until graduation. I definitely didn't grow up with any network connections and was saddled with incredible debt when starting out as a professional. Even at 40, it means I've not been able to save any substantial nest egg despite a near $100k/yr salary - it's all going to pay for the things I had to pay for myself (ie everything). If only my parents had had a little more money, everything would have been a lot easier to start with, and that shiat compounds over time, no matter the colour of your skin. I can only imagine what it must feel like to grow up poor and black or indigenous.

Yes, but are you ever followed around in stores? Did your elementary teachers automatically dismiss you as a failure, and openly treat you differently, specifically because you were black?

Was your Army engineer father denied a job in his field because he wasn't white, forcing him to raise his daughters in redlined, poorer neighborhoods?

Did you ever travel to see relatives down South, and never stay in hotels, because they don't like "coloreds?" Have you ever had gas station owners yell at your 6'6, platoon sergeant dad, who just came back from serving two tours of duty in Vietnam, saying he can buy his gas, but those "n***a gals" will never use his toilet?

Have you ever been pulled over by the cops? Have you ever been forced to sit on the curb with your hands cuffed behind your back, while the police searched your car? Did they find nothing, because they pulled you over for nothing, but sent you home with a warning anyway, because cops are never wrong?

Or have you ever been pulled over by the cops while riding in the passenger side of your white male friend's car? Did they ever farking ask your friend if he knew you, or if you were a prostitute, right the fark in front of your face?

Did you ever have to use dangerous chemicals containing lye to straighten your hair to make it more pleasing to white people? Did you ever want to lighten your skin to be more pleasing to white people? Did you ever want to be any other ethnicity and/or gender other than that of a white male?

Have you ever been an affirmative action hire for a really good job? Did you appreciate the hell out of it, because not only were you the first in your family to get that type of job, you were the first to even graduate from college? And at that job, were you continually passed over for promotions , because your college degree and on air experience couldn't compete with the high school diploma, and perky tits of the blonde haired, blue eyed white girl?

Do you ever get overcharged for a car, or house, because you're black? Does your doctor tell you you couldn't possibly be in pain because, "blacks have less sensitive nerve endings?" Ever had a white gyno doc do a pap smear on you, and have his fingers probe you a little longer than he should? It's because he assumed there was no way you could be black, and still a virgin at 18?

Do you find yourself at 51 years old, with a master's degree, cleaning buildings? Do you lie awake at night, fearful for the young black men in your family being pulled over by cops, or harassed by a random white supremacist for being in the wrong neighborhood, dating the wrong white girl, at the wrong time?

Did you ever lose a family member or friend to gang or police violence? Did you ever have to join a gang?

Do you even farking know what its like to be discriminated against, both subtlety and overtly? Have you ever been called one of the most degrading, and dehumanizing, if not outright dangerous word, perhaps in the history of race? (It's a social construct!) And even though you hear young rappers throw it around like a badge of honor, you know that if any of them heard it from you, fists will be thrown? The irony is, you also have the power to back up your aggression, with little to no interference from the authorities. Because when you say it, there is nothing good, musical, or funny about it. We use it to reclaim it. You use it to be cruel and nasty. And you seem like the type to actually have the nerve to be jealous that you can't use your degrading insult the way we do!

Fark you, and your weak ass comparisons and "whatabout-isms."  You grew up poor. So the fark did I. Don't ever compare being a poor white boy, to being African American. You have no goddamned idea, and it makes you sound bitter and racist. We blacks didn't make your life miserable. Your fellow white compatriots did. Now that you're in their upper ranks, you should appreciate that. Cause you get to be white, and pretend you know what suffering is. You have no farking idea.


This was a superb reply. Thank you.
 
2020-09-28 3:13:10 PM  

Lusiphur: Here's a thought:

Let's stop looking for more ways to prove racism is real, and start working on how to farking fix it, k?

Everyone capable of being convinced that racism (especially institutional racism) is real is already convinced. Anyone who doesn't already believe institutional racism is real will never come around, even if Jesus, George Washington, and Ronald Regan flew down from heaven in a chariot pulled by the souls of enslaved people of color and said "Yup, we designed a system that lifts up the white man on the backs of everyone else, and we did it on purpose."


The problem is that racism can't be fixed unless privileged white people agree that it should be fixed. Otherwise they (we) will continue to obstruct reform. The only chance to oppose that obstruction is for white people to be made aware of racism. In my experience, including my own personal thoughts, most white people aren't even aware of the problem and therefore at best won't perform any action to stop it, at worst oppose it (all the while thinking they aren't racist).
 
2020-09-28 4:03:22 PM  

GBmanNC: AngryDragon: Hachitori: High high school drop-out rates are not helping Blacks move up the economic scale.


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/edu​cation-data/state-high-school-graduati​on-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

"Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent."

That's racist /s

As is pointing out that membership in gangs for black Americans is 300% of their population ratio.

[Fark user image 682x432]

Which leads directly to incarceration statistics.

Not many companies look for that on a resume.

Bringing up statistics isn't racist. Implying black people commit more crimes and do worse in school because they are black instead of looking at root causes for WHY those things are happening IS racist however.

If quality of schools are based on property taxes of surrounding areas, what affect will that have on black schools? Why is there such a large discrepancy in property values for black neighborhoods?

Why are blacks stopped by police more and assumed to be criminals more often? Why are blacks initially charged with more severe crimes? Why is bail higher for blacks? Why are they significantly more likely to get longer sentences for the exact same crime? https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-asked-​harvard-to-find-out-why-so-many-black-​peo-1845017462

It's almost like there is some type of...systemic... issue at play relating to race?


theroot.com

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-28 4:29:52 PM  

AngryDragon: GBmanNC: AngryDragon: Hachitori: High high school drop-out rates are not helping Blacks move up the economic scale.


https://www.governing.com/gov-data/edu​cation-data/state-high-school-graduati​on-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html

"Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 percent; whites graduated at a rate of 86 percent."

That's racist /s

As is pointing out that membership in gangs for black Americans is 300% of their population ratio.

[Fark user image 682x432]

Which leads directly to incarceration statistics.

Not many companies look for that on a resume.

Bringing up statistics isn't racist. Implying black people commit more crimes and do worse in school because they are black instead of looking at root causes for WHY those things are happening IS racist however.

If quality of schools are based on property taxes of surrounding areas, what affect will that have on black schools? Why is there such a large discrepancy in property values for black neighborhoods?

Why are blacks stopped by police more and assumed to be criminals more often? Why are blacks initially charged with more severe crimes? Why is bail higher for blacks? Why are they significantly more likely to get longer sentences for the exact same crime? https://www.theroot.com/a-judge-asked-​harvard-to-find-out-why-so-many-black-​peo-1845017462

It's almost like there is some type of...systemic... issue at play relating to race?

theroot.com

[Fark user image 250x272]


The source isn't TheRoot.com, the source is Harvard, you were just looking for a reason to not have to defend your racism. Here's the study directly from Harvard:http://cjpp.law.harvard.edu/a​ssets/Mas​sachusetts-Racial-Disparity-Report-FIN​AL.pdf
 
2020-09-28 4:53:53 PM  

My Second Fark Account: Lusiphur: Here's a thought:

Let's stop looking for more ways to prove racism is real, and start working on how to farking fix it, k?

Everyone capable of being convinced that racism (especially institutional racism) is real is already convinced. Anyone who doesn't already believe institutional racism is real will never come around, even if Jesus, George Washington, and Ronald Regan flew down from heaven in a chariot pulled by the souls of enslaved people of color and said "Yup, we designed a system that lifts up the white man on the backs of everyone else, and we did it on purpose."

The problem is that racism can't be fixed unless privileged white people agree that it should be fixed. Otherwise they (we) will continue to obstruct reform. The only chance to oppose that obstruction is for white people to be made aware of racism. In my experience, including my own personal thoughts, most white people aren't even aware of the problem and therefore at best won't perform any action to stop it, at worst oppose it (all the while thinking they aren't racist).


That's the thing, though: the white privileged people (I'm one of them) who are still on the fence about institutional racism (because let's face it, at this point everyone believes that racism can exist, it's just a matter o believing the extent) are not going to be swayed by any more data.

The only white people who still deny institutional racism deny it only because of some combination of the following:

1. They are racist themselves and see nothing wrong with denigrating people of color
2. They have an economic incentive to deny or ignore institutional racism
3. They have experienced cognitive dissonance when trying to square "I am a good person" and "I contribute to a system that denigrates people of color," and have resolved that dissonance by convincing themselves that institutional racism doesn't exist.
4. They are completely isolated from the effects of institutional racism and can't translate abstract ideas into concrete effects on people without first-hand (or at least second hand) experience.

None of those people will be convinced by more data. 1 and 3 have built their entire sense of self on institutional racism as a constant. Their reasons for not believing in institutional racism are rooted in emotion, and you cannot change an emotional response with facts. 2, on the other hand, disbelieves (or acts like they do) for financial reasons, and will also not change their behavior in response to more facts, only financial arguments. 4 doesn't respond to data at all, and can only be swayed by actually seeing institutional racism effect people they care about.

Bottom line, this is not a problem of "Oh, we just haven't proved institutional racism enough." We have. There are mountains of scientific evidence conclusively proving that institutional racism exists, that it significantly hurts people of color, and that it significantly benefits all white people regardless of class or their belief or lack thereof in institutional racism. There are published academic papers, textbooks, pop culture/pop science books etc. at every possible reading and scientific literacy level going back to literally the late 1800's that conclusively prove that the system is intrinsically biased against people of color. More research doesn't move the needle.

What moves the needle are emotional arguments -- the civil rights movement benefited most from white people being able to see young black men and women being firehosed and attacked by dogs. And cultural arguments -- portrayals of the experiences of people of color in a hostile system in popular media. And social pressure -- white people who are not blind to reality making it clear that it will not be acceptable to deny institutional racism. These are the only weapons that work.
 
2020-09-28 5:27:04 PM  

slantsix:

In my experience, your take is incredibly accurate - and not because I'm black (I'm not) but because I grew up poor. Had to pay 100% of college costs myself. I'll never have an inheritance. Had to work constantly during high school and college to pay my bills, though never worked in my field until graduation. I definitely didn't grow up with any network connections and was saddled with incredible debt when starting out as a professional. Even at 40, it means I've not been able to save any substantial nest egg despite a near $100k/yr salary - it's all going to pay for the things I had to pay for myself (ie everything). If only my parents had had a little more money, everything would have been a lot easier to start with, and that shiat compounds over time, no matter the colour of your skin. I can only imagine what it must feel like to grow up poor and black or indigenous.

I somewhat agree.  Classism is absolutely a thing - my post was based somewhat on my own (very white) experiences as someone who grew up relatively poor to middle class (when I was born, my parents got government cheese.  By the time I was ten, they had enough money to be at the upper end of lower middle class).  Of course, I'm also a resentful and jealous person; having one of my former coworkers once complain that he wasn't rich because his grandparents sold their square block of San Diego before it got big was...  yeah.

Doesn't mean that racism isn't *also* a thing, mind you, and I did skip a lot of the bullshiat that happens to black people.

Izunbacol: jaytkay: [Fark user image image 850x478]

Do you know how hard it is to be poor and white?

Like, you have to really work at it. It requires a concerted effort to suck, sustained over multiple generations.


This isn't entirely true, though.  It doesn't take a concerted effort to suck over multiple generations.  It just takes the prior generation sucking hard, or multiple generations being so-so.  My family's wealth issues can be directly attributed to four things.  First, my father's a convicted felon, and my mother was a single mother (to my brother) while he was in prison, which cost her the career she'd been working towards (education).  Second, my health issues, which destroyed what few finances my family had at least twice.  Third, my father's gambling addiction.  Fourth, my brother's inability to do anything long-term - he's been years without a job, possibly decades at this point, and has been leaching what little money my mom had after my dad left her.

That left me basically starting over, and I was a high school & college dropout.

*cough*  Of course, these days I'm 60th percentile net worth, but that's almost all based on my own hard work, luck, and not being visibly female or a minority for the first decade of my career.  That's part of why I know and understand that there are many forms of privilege, and 'poor' is much less damaging than 'minority'.

BlackChickWhiteAccent: Fark you, and your weak ass comparisons and "whatabout-isms."  You grew up poor. So the fark did I. Don't ever compare being a poor white boy, to being African American. You have no goddamned idea, and it makes you sound bitter and racist. We blacks didn't make your life miserable. Your fellow white compatriots did. Now that you're in their upper ranks, you should appreciate that. Cause you get to be white, and pretend you know what suffering is. You have no farking idea.


fark yes.  Loved your post.  Racial minorities *do* have it worse than poor people.  They have it worse, on average, than gender and sexual minorities as well these days.  Intersectionality is also a thing, of course, but that just means that the poor black person gets shiat on even harder than the wealthy black person.  And because of white privilege, non-white people are poorer than white people, hence this article.
 
2020-09-28 6:17:04 PM  

Lusiphur: My Second Fark Account: Lusiphur: Here's a thought:

Let's stop looking for more ways to prove racism is real, and start working on how to farking fix it, k?

Everyone capable of being convinced that racism (especially institutional racism) is real is already convinced. Anyone who doesn't already believe institutional racism is real will never come around, even if Jesus, George Washington, and Ronald Regan flew down from heaven in a chariot pulled by the souls of enslaved people of color and said "Yup, we designed a system that lifts up the white man on the backs of everyone else, and we did it on purpose."

The problem is that racism can't be fixed unless privileged white people agree that it should be fixed. Otherwise they (we) will continue to obstruct reform. The only chance to oppose that obstruction is for white people to be made aware of racism. In my experience, including my own personal thoughts, most white people aren't even aware of the problem and therefore at best won't perform any action to stop it, at worst oppose it (all the while thinking they aren't racist).

That's the thing, though: the white privileged people (I'm one of them) who are still on the fence about institutional racism (because let's face it, at this point everyone believes that racism can exist, it's just a matter o believing the extent) are not going to be swayed by any more data.

The only white people who still deny institutional racism deny it only because of some combination of the following:

1. They are racist themselves and see nothing wrong with denigrating people of color
2. They have an economic incentive to deny or ignore institutional racism
3. They have experienced cognitive dissonance when trying to square "I am a good person" and "I contribute to a system that denigrates people of color," and have resolved that dissonance by convincing themselves that institutional racism doesn't exist.
4. They are completely isolated from the effects of institutional racism and can't translate abstract ideas into concrete effects on people without first-hand (or at least second hand) experience.

None of those people will be convinced by more data. 1 and 3 have built their entire sense of self on institutional racism as a constant. Their reasons for not believing in institutional racism are rooted in emotion, and you cannot change an emotional response with facts. 2, on the other hand, disbelieves (or acts like they do) for financial reasons, and will also not change their behavior in response to more facts, only financial arguments. 4 doesn't respond to data at all, and can only be swayed by actually seeing institutional racism effect people they care about.

Bottom line, this is not a problem of "Oh, we just haven't proved institutional racism enough." We have. There are mountains of scientific evidence conclusively proving that institutional racism exists, that it significantly hurts people of color, and that it significantly benefits all white people regardless of class or their belief or lack thereof in institutional racism. There are published academic papers, textbooks, pop culture/pop science books etc. at every possible reading and scientific literacy level going back to literally the late 1800's that conclusively prove that the system is intrinsically biased against people of color. More research doesn't move the needle.

What moves the needle are emotional arguments -- the civil rights movement benefited most from white people being able to see young black men and women being firehosed and attacked by dogs. And cultural arguments -- portrayals of the experiences of people of color in a hostile system in popular media. And social pressure -- white people who are not blind to reality making it clear that it will not be acceptable to deny institutional racism. These are the only weapons that work.


Okay, I understand better now. Completely agreed. We move the needle using non-academic methods in our social lives. Hopefully moving needle is possible in my corporate life as well but that remains to be seen. Still education at its core but from a non academic angle.

By the way if I'm to be blunt with myself I was probably in a combination of camp 3 and 4. The protests (particularly live streams) + conversations with many friends online and off is what helped wake me up. That my attention was drawn to the already existing mountains of research when it didn't naturally go there.
 
2020-09-28 6:35:03 PM  

stellarossa: The world owes you nothing.


Nobody said it did.

BUT if this is your weaksauce argument that black people don't get to play on a level playing field, you go for it.  Just don't hurt yourself with that deep thinking you've got going on there.
 
2020-09-28 6:38:59 PM  

My Second Fark Account: By the way if I'm to be blunt with myself I was probably in a combination of camp 3 and 4. The protests (particularly live streams) + conversations with many friends online and off is what helped wake me up. That my attention was drawn to the already existing mountains of research when it didn't naturally go there.


I'm glad to hear that you've had that experience. That's really the best thing that we can do to change perception: a combination of shunning the people who refuse to change no matter what, and using personal and emotional appeals to try to shift perceptions where we can. Honestly, a lot of it can be changed just from white people meeting people of color and being exposed to their lives -- I think most people would be shocked how many people don't have anyone outside their race as close friends, and even when they do how difficult it can be for people of color and other marginalized groups to actually convey their real experiences as opposed to code switching to fit in.
 
2020-09-29 1:13:59 AM  
I wonder how much older family education helps.  Most of the great engineers in my company are related to engineers. Most of the better sales people had parents that were also in sales. I expect that people pick up a bunch of things from their parents that gives them a slight advantage and almost all advantages compound.
 
Displayed 41 of 41 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.