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(SanDiego UnionTribune)   California's Prop 21 boosters couldn't find vet supporters so they cast actor in pòlitical spot, now anti-21 vets want them prosecuted undèr "Stolen Valor Act"   (sandiegouniontribune.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Veteran, Howard Jarvis, American Legion, state attorney, Lawyers by type, Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, Government, Semi-detached  
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3540 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Sep 2020 at 8:30 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-27 8:33:55 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 8:34:24 PM  
WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.
 
2020-09-27 8:35:35 PM  
What does honor mean if you win and get away with it?
 
2020-09-27 8:35:36 PM  

Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.


I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.
 
2020-09-27 8:35:45 PM  
They needed to indicate he was a paid actor and not a real doctor or army man.
 
2020-09-27 8:36:08 PM  

LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.


They didn't at all from what I read.
 
2020-09-27 8:36:43 PM  
"Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side: insufficient supply. (I feel dirty even acknowledging that sometimes the problem is on supply. ugh, since right wingers assert that all problems are supply).

You want the rents to be cheaper BUILD MORE HOUSING.  Build dense, build tall, build affordable, build build build farkING BUILD.  Build good transit networks, light rail and the like, to open up more areas that you can build dense in.
 
2020-09-27 8:36:46 PM  

LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.


They didn't.
 
2020-09-27 8:38:04 PM  
Maybe not the first gambit to try, especially within the 9th Circuit

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/edu​c​ate/educator-resources/lessons-plans/c​urrent-events/stolen-valor-act/

Summary
A federal court of appeals in California recently refused to hear an appeal to the case U.S.A. v. Alvarez, which held that the Stolen Valor Act was an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment. The Act was a piece of legislation, passed in 2006, that made lying about receiving military medals a federal offense. It was ruled unconstitutional by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in 2010 (the appeal court that covers most Western states), and the Ninth Circuit affirmed that decision again in March. Questions about the Act's constitutionality are being heard in appeals in Virginia and Colorado as well. Does the Stolen Valor Act violate the First Amendment?
 
2020-09-27 8:39:27 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.

They didn't.


So?  First amendment protections means anyone has the right to claim they are a veteran, so long as they are not trying to get money for it.

Also, rent control is stupid on all sorts of levels.  You literally have every single part of government dedicated to forcing people to make the highest and best use of their land (like property taxes) and then you stop the owners from doing so.
 
2020-09-27 8:41:42 PM  

Kazan: "Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side: insufficient supply. (I feel dirty even acknowledging that sometimes the problem is on supply. ugh, since right wingers assert that all problems are supply).

You want the rents to be cheaper BUILD MORE HOUSING.  Build dense, build tall, build affordable, build build build farkING BUILD.  Build good transit networks, light rail and the like, to open up more areas that you can build dense in.


1. Seize golf courses with eminent domain

2. Build more affordable housing


Bonus: inside trading gets throttled
 
2020-09-27 8:41:55 PM  

RussianPotato: RoyFokker'sGhost: LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.

They didn't.

So?  First amendment protections means anyone has the right to claim they are a veteran, so long as they are not trying to get money for it.

Also, rent control is stupid on all sorts of levels.  You literally have every single part of government dedicated to forcing people to make the highest and best use of their land (like property taxes) and then you stop the owners from doing so.


The paid actor didn't get money.

Okay.
 
2020-09-27 8:42:46 PM  
Unless one is gaining something of value, the stole valor act is unconstitutional.

that said, rent control is stupid.
 
2020-09-27 8:43:28 PM  

LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.


FTA, they did not disclose the man in a military uniform was an actor.
 
2020-09-27 8:43:29 PM  

LarryDan43: The paid actor didn't get money.

Okay.


That isn't what is meant.
 
2020-09-27 8:44:19 PM  

RussianPotato: RoyFokker'sGhost: LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.

They didn't.

So?  First amendment protections means anyone has the right to claim they are a veteran, so long as they are not trying to get money for it.

Also, rent control is stupid on all sorts of levels.  You literally have every single part of government dedicated to forcing people to make the highest and best use of their land (like property taxes) and then you stop the owners from doing so.


You win pie from me today.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 8:44:41 PM  

red230: [Fark user image 400x400]


Republicans make hollow and questionable appeals to honor, their past, and restoring the empire.  They sound like every Klingon politician.  Worf is the one holier-than-thou holdout.
 
2020-09-27 8:45:03 PM  

Kazan: "Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side....



You said it all before I could.
 
2020-09-27 8:45:08 PM  
I live in a rent controlled city.  There are a number of buildings with "pro 21" signs in front.  What's so weird is that the buildings with the signs are generally poorly managed...  So odd... /s

/Even Jacob Wohl could get a Marine to say he had a BDSM affair with Elizabeth Warren.  That's how bad your idea is.
 
2020-09-27 8:46:36 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: I live in a rent controlled city.  There are a number of buildings with "pro 21" signs in front.  What's so weird is that the buildings with the signs are generally poorly managed...  So odd... /s

/Even Jacob Wohl could get a Marine to say he had a BDSM affair with Elizabeth Warren.  That's how bad your idea is.


Who doesn't want a BDSM sesh with Liz Warren?

I'm a straight woman but I'd try that at least once.
 
2020-09-27 8:46:36 PM  
If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.
 
2020-09-27 8:48:43 PM  

Kazan: "Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side: insufficient supply. (I feel dirty even acknowledging that sometimes the problem is on supply. ugh, since right wingers assert that all problems are supply).

You want the rents to be cheaper BUILD MORE HOUSING.  Build dense, build tall, build affordable, build build build farkING BUILD.  Build good transit networks, light rail and the like, to open up more areas that you can build dense in.


Unfortunately, a lot of people say "Oh, of course I want affordable housing.  But not in my school district, and not if it affects the resale value of my property."
 
2020-09-27 8:51:02 PM  
The Republicans are in favor of prop 21. Doesn't prop 21 increase the types of properties that can be rent controlled?
 
2020-09-27 8:51:10 PM  
You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.
 
2020-09-27 8:51:57 PM  

Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.


So is Bunker Boy.
 
2020-09-27 8:54:14 PM  

Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.


Stolen valor is always *acting*

/People can see you son
 
2020-09-27 8:55:26 PM  

Kazan: "Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side: insufficient supply. (I feel dirty even acknowledging that sometimes the problem is on supply. ugh, since right wingers assert that all problems are supply).

You want the rents to be cheaper BUILD MORE HOUSING.  Build dense, build tall, build affordable, build build build farkING BUILD.  Build good transit networks, light rail and the like, to open up more areas that you can build dense in.


You are 100% correct, and I agree: rent control isn't the best way to manage housing problems.  But, if the only purpose of a city is to make money and house labor, then yes, rent control is horrible.  But I know a number of long term residents, who are active members of their community, that could never afford to live here if it weren't for rent control.  They provide a lot more to their community than just paying rent.  For where I live (Santa Monica), rent control provides stability in what would normally be a very transient population (people move here for a few years, then leave.  This has a massive negative affect on politics, population age, insurance... the list goes on).

/You're also right about building more housing...  But, especially in dense, long standing cities like the LA area, metro San Diego, or the SF peninsula, it's a lot more complex (building codes, cost of construction in earthquake prone areas, etc)
 
2020-09-27 8:55:42 PM  

Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.


I can reasonably presume that a movie about a man in uniform is not going to necessarily include only war heroes. And if a movie WERE TO include a war hero, such as Audie Murphy, then Hollywood would shout it from the mountaintops.

But someone in an advertisement representing himself as a member of the armed services? Speaking AS a member of the armed services? Speaking FOR them? In uniform? I would reasonably expect them to be a member of the services.


Did anyone thank him for his service?
 
2020-09-27 8:55:50 PM  

hugadarn: You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.


Agreed.

Snowbirds are a ridiculous drain on the housing market.
 
2020-09-27 8:59:04 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: But I know a number of long term residents, who are active members of their community, that could never afford to live here if it weren't for rent control.  They provide a lot more to their community than just paying rent.


How dare you ascribe worth to humans?  Apologize to capitalism.
 
2020-09-27 8:59:55 PM  

LordJiro: Xzano: WTAF. Not sure if stolen valor applies, but hell give it a try.

I suppose it depends on how well they disclosed that he was an actor.


They didn't. At all.
 
2020-09-27 9:00:03 PM  

Nadie_AZ: What does honor mean if you win and get away with it?


guessing it means subjugating foreign brown people on the other side of the world using taxpayer money.

Stolen valor is bullshiat infringing on free speech.
 
2020-09-27 9:00:41 PM  
*Rubs screen vigorously* Nope, that's not a fly turd, that's an accent grave. How do you type "pòlitical" by accident?
 
2020-09-27 9:02:11 PM  

red230: [Fark user image 400x400]


The story of the Klingon government is one that is most appropriate here.

Because everything about their government, and everything about their most important tenets is a lie.  All of it.
They just keep telling the people that they are all about law and order and honor, and they themselves are the worse offenders of those attributes.

The Republicans are the Klingons that Roddenberry was warning us about.
 
2020-09-27 9:02:35 PM  

Purple_Urkle: ShavedOrangutan: I live in a rent controlled city.  There are a number of buildings with "pro 21" signs in front.  What's so weird is that the buildings with the signs are generally poorly managed...  So odd... /s

/Even Jacob Wohl could get a Marine to say he had a BDSM affair with Elizabeth Warren.  That's how bad your idea is.

Who doesn't want a BDSM sesh with Liz Warren?

I'm a straight woman but I'd try that at least once.


For the story alone. I'm on board.
 
2020-09-27 9:03:01 PM  

Purple_Urkle: 1. Seize golf courses with eminent domain

2. Build more affordable housing


Bonus: inside trading gets throttled


Another Bonus: Golf courses in California weasel the Prop 13 designation, robbing the other property taxpayers who have to make up the difference.


"The Los Angeles Country Club, protected under Prop. 13 limits and loopholes, pays an ultra-low rate of about $200,000 a year in property taxes based on 313 acres of prime Westside property that could be worth nearly $20 billion or even more if it were developed"
 
2020-09-27 9:03:49 PM  

FrancoFile: hugadarn: You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.

Agreed.

Snowbirds are a ridiculous drain on the housing market.


There are whole buildings that are empty owned by Russian/saudi oil money guys.
 
2020-09-27 9:05:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 9:05:16 PM  

thehobbes: Stolen valor is bullshiat infringing on free speech.


The mere posing is and it can't be prosecuted. What can be prosecuted is obtaining something of value with the impersonation.

/ I don't recall if the value has to be military-specific like VA benefits
// Don't care enough to Google it
 
2020-09-27 9:05:25 PM  

jaytkay: Purple_Urkle: 1. Seize golf courses with eminent domain

2. Build more affordable housing


Bonus: inside trading gets throttled

Another Bonus: Golf courses in California weasel the Prop 13 designation, robbing the other property taxpayers who have to make up the difference.


"The Los Angeles Country Club, protected under Prop. 13 limits and loopholes, pays an ultra-low rate of about $200,000 a year in property taxes based on 313 acres of prime Westside property that could be worth nearly $20 billion or even more if it were developed"


Golf courses are worse than crack dens. This is my sincerely held belief.

Thank you for sharing evidence.
 
2020-09-27 9:05:41 PM  

Podna: FrancoFile: hugadarn: You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.

Agreed.

Snowbirds are a ridiculous drain on the housing market.

There are whole buildings that are empty owned by Russian/saudi oil money guys.



Yes, money laundering and escape hatches are also a problem.
 
2020-09-27 9:06:14 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.

Stolen valor is always *acting*

/People can see you son


Tom Hanks is guilty of stolen valor for playong Forrest Gump. That's literally the argument here.
 
2020-09-27 9:08:03 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: Kazan: "Thinking that rent control works" is the left wing equivalent of Republicans denying climate change.

It's been thoroughly and extensively documented by economists of all economic philosophies that it does nothing but result in economic nativism, reduced labor mobility, reduced housing quality and reduced housing quantity.

Housing is one of the few farking things where the problem is legitimately supply-side: insufficient supply. (I feel dirty even acknowledging that sometimes the problem is on supply. ugh, since right wingers assert that all problems are supply).

You want the rents to be cheaper BUILD MORE HOUSING.  Build dense, build tall, build affordable, build build build farkING BUILD.  Build good transit networks, light rail and the like, to open up more areas that you can build dense in.

You are 100% correct, and I agree: rent control isn't the best way to manage housing problems.  But, if the only purpose of a city is to make money and house labor, then yes, rent control is horrible.  But I know a number of long term residents, who are active members of their community, that could never afford to live here if it weren't for rent control.  They provide a lot more to their community than just paying rent.  For where I live (Santa Monica), rent control provides stability in what would normally be a very transient population (people move here for a few years, then leave.  This has a massive negative affect on politics, population age, insurance... the list goes on).

/You're also right about building more housing...  But, especially in dense, long standing cities like the LA area, metro San Diego, or the SF peninsula, it's a lot more complex (building codes, cost of construction in earthquake prone areas, etc)


LA is pretty simple if you ignore ordinances about height of new construction. While LA is a very packed area, it isn't very tall. Build taller.
Fark user imageView Full Size

Yeah, some skyscrapers towards the center, but look at the rest of the Sprawl.
 
2020-09-27 9:08:28 PM  

hugadarn: You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.


Any fees charged to a property owner will be disbursed by charging higher rents on other properties in order to make up the difference in profit. There's a reason that when property taxes go up, rent increases. Landlords and rental companies aren't going to pay that shiat.
 
2020-09-27 9:14:14 PM  

Podna: FrancoFile: hugadarn: You want to actually fix rent prices, start imposing heavy taxes and fees (a high persent of the assessed value of the property) on unoccupied properties that are zoned residential. If you really want to be aggressive include some fees on properties that only that have occupants less than 50% of the year AKA second homes.

Agreed.

Snowbirds are a ridiculous drain on the housing market.

There are whole buildings that are empty owned by Russian/saudi oil money guys.


Especially bad in NY. Also alot of Chinese owners with empty apartments.

Those properties are a new way to shift wealth/ launder money. Expenses art is another. That's why "high end" art at auction goes for so much. In effect, it isn't art. It's a poker chip/ bearer bond assigned a value but with little or no financial tracking. People buy art anonymously all the time.
 
2020-09-27 9:15:46 PM  
Hey Subby, your keyboard is stuck in French mode.
 
2020-09-27 9:18:02 PM  

jaytkay: thehobbes: Stolen valor is bullshiat infringing on free speech.

The mere posing is and it can't be prosecuted. What can be prosecuted is obtaining something of value with the impersonation.

/ I don't recall if the value has to be military-specific like VA benefits
// Don't care enough to Google it


Any benefit. You can be prosecuted for claiming false military history in order to get free drinks at a bar.

The only exception is that it has to be of monetary value. So, using false military service to get laid is legal unless prostitution is legal in the area you are in.
 
2020-09-27 9:19:48 PM  

Purple_Urkle: jaytkay: Purple_Urkle: 1. Seize golf courses with eminent domain

2. Build more affordable housing


Bonus: inside trading gets throttled

Another Bonus: Golf courses in California weasel the Prop 13 designation, robbing the other property taxpayers who have to make up the difference.


"The Los Angeles Country Club, protected under Prop. 13 limits and loopholes, pays an ultra-low rate of about $200,000 a year in property taxes based on 313 acres of prime Westside property that could be worth nearly $20 billion or even more if it were developed"

Golf courses are worse than crack dens. This is my sincerely held belief.

Thank you for sharing evidence.


Michael Douglas movie.... Sec. Ah, there it is Falling Down. Excellent scene about LA golf courses.
 
2020-09-27 9:20:13 PM  

Russ1642: MurphyMurphy: Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.

Stolen valor is always *acting*

/People can see you son

Tom Hanks is guilty of stolen valor for playong Forrest Gump. That's literally the argument here.


No.
 
2020-09-27 9:20:35 PM  

Russ1642: MurphyMurphy: Russ1642: If acting is stolen valor then Hollywood is in big trouble.

Stolen valor is always *acting*

/People can see you son

Tom Hanks is guilty of stolen valor for playong Forrest Gump. That's literally the argument here.


movies have credits, actors are identified.  in this commercial the "veteran" was not identified as an actor, but instead portrayed as a real veteran supporting this political proposal.

jaytkay: thehobbes: Stolen valor is bullshiat infringing on free speech.

The mere posing is and it can't be prosecuted. What can be prosecuted is obtaining something of value with the impersonation.

/ I don't recall if the value has to be military-specific like VA benefits
// Don't care enough to Google it


i don't believe so, only that there's value.  in this case that would be the marketing value of having a "real veteran" supporting their cause in the campaign ad - which could be easily construed as a military/veteran specific thing in any case.
 
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