Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Hill)   Rep. Ilhan Omar suggests maybe the Democrats try winning this time and focus their energy on getting "disaffected" voters to actually show up and vote this time rather than wasting their efforts trying to convince Republicans to leave the cult   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Democratic Party, George W. Bush, Republican Party, Trump voters' Omar fires, John Kerry, President of the United States, Barack Obama, Joe Biden  
•       •       •

958 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Sep 2020 at 3:05 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



270 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2020-09-27 12:30:26 PM  
Yeah, I'll sympathize with people's whining about not having the candidate they want after turnout in primaries surpasses 17% or whatever ridiculously low number it is.
 
2020-09-27 12:33:14 PM  

jaytkay: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: IRestoreFurniture: the centrists tactic of shiatting on anyone not in lock step

Those centrists assailing you in your imagination sure are terrible!

I am continually shocked that this has to be explained - elections are not about your feelings.

You don't have a personal relationship with the candidates. They aren't going to love you or hate you. The people on Facebook and Fark saying mean things aren't making policy. You aren't voting for them.

Grow up. Elections are about making the best real-world choice.

Way to prove his point.

Says the child who is still mad at Hillary for not personally holding his hand and begging for him to bestow his sacred and pure vote upon her.


You know, I'm sick if saying this but I voted for clinton.

Three times actually.

Once in 2016 and both her Senate runs.

Can you say the same?
 
2020-09-27 12:34:25 PM  
Talking to any of the idiots that claim to be on the left but are somehow unable to go vote against Trump is a waste of air.

Do whatever you want. We'll get rid of him without your help. Makes it all the easier to go back to ignoring your stupidity afterward.

"But they're both the saaame!"

They're not. Fark you.
 
2020-09-27 12:40:16 PM  

GregInIndy: Talking to any of the idiots that claim to be on the left but are somehow unable to go vote against Trump is a waste of air.

Do whatever you want. We'll get rid of him without your help. Makes it all the easier to go back to ignoring your stupidity afterward.

"But they're both the saaame!"

They're not. Fark you.


I don't know a single person who believes that both parties are the same.  At least not any Democrats.


Where do you get this shiat?  If a person is pushing *both sides are bad* they're not a Democrat, simply by their statement alone.  Using people like to disparage actual Democrats with a different idea of where the party should be headed (you know, democracy) is damaging the party more than any rando on the internet.
 
2020-09-27 12:41:57 PM  

GregInIndy: Talking to any of the idiots that claim to be on the left but are somehow unable to go vote against Trump is a waste of air.

Do whatever you want. We'll get rid of him without your help. Makes it all the easier to go back to ignoring your stupidity afterward.

"But they're both the saaame!"

They're not. Fark you.


these ppl don't exist in any statistically significant numbers IRL, but keep on raging against this thing that is mostly just in your head
 
2020-09-27 12:43:57 PM  

jaytkay: Elections are about making the best real-world choice.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 12:50:08 PM  

Clearly Canadian: Al Tsheimers:

As the polls have shown, the people that voted for Pinocchio in 2016 are going to do the same this time, whether or not his policies have hurt them personally. The people that voted for Clinton, even if holding their nose, will be voting for Biden. The only wiggle room is the people that didn't want to vote for a Clinton, after decades of right-wing disparagement, and thought she would win without their vote.
Those are the people that have to be convinced that their vote, and every vote matters. Start asking if they are better off now than they were 4 years ago. Stop letting the narrative be "do you feel better now that someone else is more miserable than they were 4 years ago?"

Not just convinced their vote matters, but maybe even encouraged to vote on issues of local and state level, too. "Vote Biden or we'll shoot his dog" while effective, doesn't really make people excited about the process. Or interested. We need better than that.


We did mail-in ballots this year, to have time to research the down-ticket candidates. It takes a great deal of time to research all the judges and commissioners and city council races.
 
2020-09-27 12:51:48 PM  

IRestoreFurniture: misanthropicsob: Count Bakula: Likwit: This has nothing to do with centrist and far-left and everything to do with corporate donors. Don't buy the propaganda.

A majority of Dems, Independents and Republicans support legalizing marijuana and federal funding for maternity leave. A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives. Why don't they try to grab as many votes as possible and add these popular policies to their platform?

I'm sure it's been covered ITT, but everything on your list except M4A and marijuana legalization is currently in the Democratic platform.

Also not free or reduced tuition. You have to "qualify" to get that.

Let's not forget that little thing called fracking.  Which apparently the Dems are tires OK with.


Fire water for all!


Then don't open the negotiation with "you must do some of these things." Your position is "do all of these things, with no means-testing, and do none of the things I do not support," and you'll brook no compromise.

Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room. It's a credit to Bernie Sanders and AOC that, by not acting like you wish they would, they've gotten some of this stuff into the platform.
 
2020-09-27 12:53:42 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: IRestoreFurniture: the centrists tactic of shiatting on anyone not in lock step

Those centrists assailing you in your imagination sure are terrible!

I am continually shocked that this has to be explained - elections are not about your feelings.

You don't have a personal relationship with the candidates. They aren't going to love you or hate you. The people on Facebook and Fark saying mean things aren't making policy. You aren't voting for them.

Grow up. Elections are about making the best real-world choice.

Way to prove his point.

Says the child who is still mad at Hillary for not personally holding his hand and begging for him to bestow his sacred and pure vote upon her.

Is...is that how you think voting works?


Successful politicians tend to keep a certain amount of flexibility in what they believe in and fight for during campaigns, in an attempt to ensure they are staying in step with what they believe is a winning coalition. If you routinely find that politicians' promises aren't meeting your expectations, you should at least stop to consider the possibility that, no matter how many people you think agree with you, it might actually be you who are out of step with the mood of the wider electorate. This is an election for all of the US, and it is an awful lot bigger place than your home area, your friends and acquaintances, and the commenters on this website.
 
2020-09-27 12:57:05 PM  

Count Bakula: IRestoreFurniture: misanthropicsob: Count Bakula: Likwit: This has nothing to do with centrist and far-left and everything to do with corporate donors. Don't buy the propaganda.

A majority of Dems, Independents and Republicans support legalizing marijuana and federal funding for maternity leave. A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives. Why don't they try to grab as many votes as possible and add these popular policies to their platform?

I'm sure it's been covered ITT, but everything on your list except M4A and marijuana legalization is currently in the Democratic platform.

Also not free or reduced tuition. You have to "qualify" to get that.

Let's not forget that little thing called fracking.  Which apparently the Dems are tires OK with.


Fire water for all!

Then don't open the negotiation with "you must do some of these things." Your position is "do all of these things, with no means-testing, and do none of the things I do not support," and you'll brook no compromise.

Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room. It's a credit to Bernie Sanders and AOC that, by not acting like you wish they would, they've gotten some of this stuff into the platform.


Lol.

I get it.  You're the "real" progressive.
 
2020-09-27 12:59:48 PM  
It's almost as if turnout from voters enthusiastic about bold Dem policy deliverables is always key for Dems.

/and it's almost as if failing to deliver so many times the past forty years has painted them into a corner
//only one way out - return to being a legit opposition party by repping the vast working class
///that's intersectional af so don't even with the hurrrr. you can't pass sufficient social policy reforms w/o the working class vote.
 
2020-09-27 1:00:41 PM  
pdieten:

Successful politicians tend to keep a certain amount of flexibility in what they believe in and fight for during campaigns, in an attempt to ensure they are staying in step with what they believe is a winning coalition. If you routinely find that politicians' promises aren't meeting your expectations, you should at least stop to consider the possibility that, no matter how many people you think agree with you, it might actually be you who are out of step with the mood of the wider electorate. This is an election for all of the US, and it is an awful lot bigger place than your home area, your friends and acquaintances, and the commenters on this website.

this is some insightful, profound expert analysis.
 
2020-09-27 1:18:02 PM  
Says the Muslim
 
2020-09-27 1:18:49 PM  

middlewaytao: Real populism is a left wing thing, always has been. It is literally lifting all boats. This is how you defeat republicans.

It allowed democrats to dominatethe federal government from the 30's to the late 70's when they rejected it. It was hugely popular.
How Post-Watergate Liberals Killed Their Populist Soul - The Atlantic

It is also the roots of the democratic party.

"When Thomas Jefferson and James Madison founded the party in 1792, their goal was to oppose Alexander Hamilton's plan to centralize power in a financial aristocracy tied to the state. In place of Hamilton's vision of an America in which a few capitalists managed most business, leaders of the new party envisioned a political economy in which fighting monopoly and the concentration of power would foster the creation of independent, self-governing citizens."
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/a​rchive/2017/02/antimonopoly-big-busine​ss/514358/

Giving the right to the opportunity to steal and pervert that mantle into something else has been the democrats biggest mistake.

What republicans and other authoritarians play with is more accurately called Sado-populism.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/oOjJtEkK​MX4]


Author Thomas Frank: How Liberals Turned On The Working Class
Youtube 151glS2WDNw
 
2020-09-27 1:19:26 PM  

Al Tsheimers: We did mail-in ballots this year, to have time to research the down-ticket candidates. It takes a great deal of time to research all the judges and commissioners and city council races.


I've never voted by mail and always had a copy of the ballot early for that purpose.
 
2020-09-27 1:24:13 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: Codenamechaz: MegaLib: Likwit: This has nothing to do with centrist and far-left and everything to do with corporate donors. Don't buy the propaganda.

A majority of Dems, Independents and Republicans support legalizing marijuana and federal funding for maternity leave. A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives. Why don't they try to grab as many votes as possible and add these popular policies to their platform?

Biden is doing this

1. So far, only Harris supports decriminalizing marijuana. Biden only supports legalizing medical marijuana and wants to leave recreational use up to the states, so no Biden is not doing this.

2. The Biden campaign's stated position on Medicare 4 all is "Just expand obamacare" along with a bunch of nonsense tax credits when people are looking for something like other civilized nations have.

3. Biden's campaign site has no stated position on Maternity leave. If they've said anything, I've yet to find it from a cursory google search

4. His things with tuition and schooling has a lot of caveats and means testing to it. At the very least there's mention of support of relaxing bankrupcy rules (the same ones he helped get created in the first place as a senator...)

5. His green energy stuff is mostly a lot of vague claims, but will remain to be seen.

He's got some decent stuff in there, but don't lie about his actual positions.

Umm, that account's job is to portray a democrat as Republicans see them.


Oh. Well then! Good to know for the future i guess
 
2020-09-27 1:30:39 PM  

misanthropicsob: jaytkay: Elections are about making the best real-world choice.

[Fark user image 425x370]


He said real-world not people who live in fantasyland.
 
2020-09-27 1:37:03 PM  

IRestoreFurniture: Count Bakula: IRestoreFurniture: misanthropicsob: Count Bakula: Likwit: This has nothing to do with centrist and far-left and everything to do with corporate donors. Don't buy the propaganda.

A majority of Dems, Independents and Republicans support legalizing marijuana and federal funding for maternity leave. A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives. Why don't they try to grab as many votes as possible and add these popular policies to their platform?

I'm sure it's been covered ITT, but everything on your list except M4A and marijuana legalization is currently in the Democratic platform.

Also not free or reduced tuition. You have to "qualify" to get that.

Let's not forget that little thing called fracking.  Which apparently the Dems are tires OK with.


Fire water for all!

Then don't open the negotiation with "you must do some of these things." Your position is "do all of these things, with no means-testing, and do none of the things I do not support," and you'll brook no compromise.

Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room. It's a credit to Bernie Sanders and AOC that, by not acting like you wish they would, they've gotten some of this stuff into the platform.

Lol.

I get it.  You're the "real" progressive.


Trenchant analysis. Did I question your progressive bona fides, or just your terrible strategic thinking?
 
2020-09-27 1:42:29 PM  
She isn't wrong.  Democrats keep moderating themselves rightward in effort to appeal to people who'd be happier if everyone left of Genghis Khan found themselves in the ground, and the results have been nothing but decades of extensive losses and now the SCOTUS going 6-3 until some Democratic politicians get the stones to expand the court.

And despite this strategy being a multi-decade failure we still see people whinging that the Democrats just haven't capitulated to the Republicans enough, as the fourth poster did, and that people just need to give it more time to work.
 
2020-09-27 1:50:28 PM  

pdieten: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: IRestoreFurniture: the centrists tactic of shiatting on anyone not in lock step

Those centrists assailing you in your imagination sure are terrible!

I am continually shocked that this has to be explained - elections are not about your feelings.

You don't have a personal relationship with the candidates. They aren't going to love you or hate you. The people on Facebook and Fark saying mean things aren't making policy. You aren't voting for them.

Grow up. Elections are about making the best real-world choice.

Way to prove his point.

Says the child who is still mad at Hillary for not personally holding his hand and begging for him to bestow his sacred and pure vote upon her.

Is...is that how you think voting works?

Successful politicians tend to keep a certain amount of flexibility in what they believe in and fight for during campaigns, in an attempt to ensure they are staying in step with what they believe is a winning coalition. If you routinely find that politicians' promises aren't meeting your expectations, you should at least stop to consider the possibility that, no matter how many people you think agree with you, it might actually be you who are out of step with the mood of the wider electorate. This is an election for all of the US, and it is an awful lot bigger place than your home area, your friends and acquaintances, and the commenters on this website.


The current progressive agenda isn't about "political preference" or being "in step with the coalition".  It's about fixing actual problems that are literal crises that could sink this nation's economy in the next 10-20 years.  If you're a Democrat arguing to pump the brakes on things like broad student loan forgiveness, single-payer healthcare, free state university tuition, and the Green New Deal, you are essentially telling the bottom 50% of the economic ladder "fark you, I got mine."  And if you're not supporting local candidates running on justice reform, you're sending an even clearer, and less savory message.

Don't be surprised if they are totally uninterested in voting for your latest status-quo-seeking, neoliberal candidate.  It's not their job to support your lifestyle and political flights of fancy.  They're busy trying to pay rent and feed themselves and buy medicine for their sick kids.
 
2020-09-27 1:51:26 PM  
Insurgent:

You're killing it in this thread.  Keep it up.
 
2020-09-27 1:55:08 PM  

Murkanen: She isn't wrong.  Democrats keep moderating themselves rightward in effort to appeal to people who'd be happier if everyone left of Genghis Khan found themselves in the ground, and the results have been nothing but decades of extensive losses and now the SCOTUS going 6-3 until some Democratic politicians get the stones to expand the court.

And despite this strategy being a multi-decade failure we still see people whinging that the Democrats just haven't capitulated to the Republicans enough, as the fourth poster did, and that people just need to give it more time to work.


By policies, would you say that:

Biden is to the right of Hillary who is to the right of Obama who is to the right of Clinton?

Because you'd be wrong.
 
2020-09-27 1:55:31 PM  

GregInIndy: Talking to any of the idiots that claim to be on the left but are somehow unable to go vote against Trump is a waste of air.

Do whatever you want. We'll get rid of him without your help. Makes it all the easier to go back to ignoring your stupidity afterward.

"But they're both the saaame!"

They're not. Fark you.


I see you're adapting the Clinton strategy of winning elections.
 
2020-09-27 1:57:15 PM  

Count Bakula: Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room.


"You don't have the leverage to get us off this track," says man about to be run over by freight train. "You should be satisfied that we've moved a few inches toward the rail". 

Farking idiots.
 
2020-09-27 2:04:25 PM  
The problem with getting non-voters to vote is that they don't vote.
 
2020-09-27 2:05:13 PM  
  

voodoolady: Heliodorus: wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.

Stop biatching, it's a business deal. If you want to benefit from things they have, you have to give them what they want. Otherwise pound sand.

Ok, it's a business deal. We have one group who has indicated that they want to "do business," in this analogy, to vote. And another group who hasn't. There is a group that apparently doesn't vote (is this the progressive wing?) Why should the nominee cater to them when apparently they don't want to do business? I can offer you everything you could possibly want for an item, but if you don't want to sell, that would be wasting my time.


That's conservatives that democrats fark over progressives for. Ask not president Hillary Clinton. But keep biatching about how progressives won't make a business deal.


Here's this about Bernie: "And yet despite a virtual tie in Iowa, a narrow victory in New Hampshire and a big triumph in Nevada, the first three nominating contests reveal a fundamental challenge for Mr. Sanders's political revolution: He may be winning, but not because of his longstanding pledge to expand the Democratic base.
The results so far show that Mr. Sanders has prevailed by broadening his appeal among traditional Democratic voters, not by fundamentally transforming the electorate." (from: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02​/24/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democra​tic-voters.html ) He didn't bring in non-voters.

So why should we try to appeal to a group of non-voters? How will convincing non-voters to support Biden help Biden win an election?

I didn't ...


As much as moderates wan't to pretend it is true, Bernie isn't an absolute leader of progressives. Like all candidates people don't give a shiat what he personally thinks or cares about outside of how much it pushes their agenda forward. It's like people think of him as a potential representative of their values

jook: Heliodorus: wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change I teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.

Stop biatching, it's a business deal. If you want to benefit from things they have, you have to give them what they want. Otherwise pound sand.

A business deal for their ever-so-precious tender vote? Vote for Biden or there is ZERO chance of enacting ANY change they desire. That's the deal. I'm saying this as a progressive:  Puerile Pouting Progressives (say that three times fast!) can go fark themselves. I'm done coddling them.


GFY.

Moderates and conservatives have always demanded everything from progressives with bullshiat promises of 'in the future once we have everything we want then we can discuss maybe giving you something...potentially' , just like in this thread. So go fark yourself.
 
2020-09-27 2:23:50 PM  

Persnickety: Sophont: Another thread offering proof that moderatesprogressives hate progressives moderates more than fascists.

FTFY.  Of course the "progressives" we're talking about here are Fark ProgressivesTM.  Actual progressives, like Bernie, don't have to be convinced to vote Nazis out of office.


Unless you think "Fark Progressives" represent the majority of progressives, there's no reason to focus on them. If they're a minority of self-labeled progressives, they aren't the ones messing with our elections, and so it makes more sense to ignore them and focus on actual progressives.  If they're the majority, well, then you're going to have to engage them somehow if you want their votes, so you can set your self-righteousness aside and try to garner some of them, or you can be stubborn and entitled and lose.
 
2020-09-27 2:26:33 PM  

Al Tsheimers: puffy999: Clearly Canadian: I love this thread already.

I'll just ask it, because no one's asked it yet. If the people who would seriously vote for Trump would change their minds, why does he still poll where he does?

Everyone who thinks courting the middle works clearly refuses to read even one single about why people vote for Treason in the first place. They refuse to read up about why so many democrats sat out the 2016 election. They have their projections about reality, and reject any other possibilities or research. Just like the rest of the right.

What?

The goal is to get those people who don't vote.

Literally the only people who seem to want to get Trump voters themselves are idiots like Biden, but they're not in this thread.

As the polls have shown, the people that voted for Pinocchio in 2016 are going to do the same this time, whether or not his policies have hurt them personally. The people that voted for Clinton, even if holding their nose, will be voting for Biden. The only wiggle room is the people that didn't want to vote for a Clinton, after decades of right-wing disparagement, and thought she would win without their vote.
Those are the people that have to be convinced that their vote, and every vote matters. Start asking if they are better off now than they were 4 years ago. Stop letting the narrative be "do you feel better now that someone else is more miserable than they were 4 years ago?"


That's not true entirely true. There are regretful Trump voters on Fark. The people in RTAV are filled with regretful Trump voters. Some of the people who voted Obama then Trump too.
 
2020-09-27 2:27:27 PM  

Z-clipped: Count Bakula: Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room.

"You don't have the leverage to get us off this track," says man about to be run over by freight train. "You should be satisfied that we've moved a few inches toward the rail". 

Farking idiots.


Yes, representative democracy requires convincing people to support things, even ifyou know that those things are life-or-death-level important. It's either that, or you seize power undemocratically and implement those necessary solutions. Being correct does not magically give you that power.
 
2020-09-27 2:31:37 PM  

Insurgent: jaytkay is right the democratic party doesn't owe you sexist bros JACK shiat you racist farks

vote or die LITERALLY


Next stick to what I actually wrote. But gosh, I sure do say terrible things in your imagination.
 
2020-09-27 2:32:05 PM  

Z-clipped: pdieten: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: AdmirableSnackbar: jaytkay: IRestoreFurniture: the centrists tactic of shiatting on anyone not in lock step

Those centrists assailing you in your imagination sure are terrible!

I am continually shocked that this has to be explained - elections are not about your feelings.

You don't have a personal relationship with the candidates. They aren't going to love you or hate you. The people on Facebook and Fark saying mean things aren't making policy. You aren't voting for them.

Grow up. Elections are about making the best real-world choice.

Way to prove his point.

Says the child who is still mad at Hillary for not personally holding his hand and begging for him to bestow his sacred and pure vote upon her.

Is...is that how you think voting works?

Successful politicians tend to keep a certain amount of flexibility in what they believe in and fight for during campaigns, in an attempt to ensure they are staying in step with what they believe is a winning coalition. If you routinely find that politicians' promises aren't meeting your expectations, you should at least stop to consider the possibility that, no matter how many people you think agree with you, it might actually be you who are out of step with the mood of the wider electorate. This is an election for all of the US, and it is an awful lot bigger place than your home area, your friends and acquaintances, and the commenters on this website.

The current progressive agenda isn't about "political preference" or being "in step with the coalition".  It's about fixing actual problems that are literal crises that could sink this nation's economy in the next 10-20 years.  If you're a Democrat arguing to pump the brakes on things like broad student loan forgiveness, single-payer healthcare, free state university tuition, and the Green New Deal, you are essentially telling the bottom 50% of the economic ladder "fark you, I got mine."  And if you're not supporting local candidates running on justice reform, you're sending an even clearer, and less savory message.

Don't be surprised if they are totally uninterested in voting for your latest status-quo-seeking, neoliberal candidate.  It's not their job to support your lifestyle and political flights of fancy.  They're busy trying to pay rent and feed themselves and buy medicine for their sick kids.


I don't know what centrists want, other than to win elections against Republicans.  It's clear that they, personally, don't *need* anything.  This is 100% about who they like and don't like to see on TV, and who they think *other* people will like.

They don't need anything, and no one knows what they want, in terms of policy (other than vague "better" something).  They have given us candidates that, unless you're the kind of person who will go dig up a platform on the internet, no one can say with any certainty what *they* want to do.

That's a problem.  Other people who are voting are hurting and personally *need* help. They're dying for someone to give it to them.  And they know the system that we've had can't deliver it.

Two groups matter:  people who voted for Obama then Trump.  They're farking desperate for help, and these people seemed to want to change the system that we had, not to be advancing within it for 30 years.  Desperate people do desperate things.  Go ahead and scream "racist!" at them.  Think it'll help?

The other group saw the 2016 campaign as the worst shiat sandwich ever served up.  "One of these people is going to be president?  And I should go vote for one of them?  Not this time."  Yet again, it seems our only tactic for reaching them is "Trump sucks!"  Because no one was saying *that* in 2016.  I think we'll get a lot of those this time, now that they've seen Trump in action, but who knows?  Then what do we offer those people, substantively and definitively, in 2022 and 2024?

I'm not sure what centrists really want, I don't think these voters do either, but it's clear that they don't *need* anything
 
2020-09-27 2:34:28 PM  

pdieten: Or, alternatively, maybe those people who aren't voting just don't give enough of a shiat about politics to bother showing up because their lives won't change in a meaningful way no matter who is president. Before encouraging them to vote, you should at least consider the possibility that, especially if they aren't PoC, they very well might find Trump's rhetoric appealing and vote Republican.


People like that seem to think one election changes everything. 2016 and 2020 weren't the result of one election. There is a history of politics, and some people can't accept incremental change.

Just during covid, you see republicans doing jackshiat, and in some instances making things worse. Democrats have pushed for aid, shutdown, and wearing masks to deal with it. But yea, it won't affect me at all...
 
2020-09-27 2:36:55 PM  

MadHatter500: This thread demonstrates why Democrats can continue to advertise not being an organized political party.


No it doesn't. At its core, the problem is Democrat's don't have an identity that Republicans have. The umbrella of the Democrats is its greatest strength and weakness. They try to speak for all, but if your message has to pander to so many different groups, it's difficult to get unity.
 
2020-09-27 2:39:23 PM  

DoctorFarkGood: The problem with getting non-voters to vote is that they don't vote.


Have you considered talking to them to find out what it would take to get them to vote?
 
2020-09-27 2:39:25 PM  
Does Fark greenlight every single article where someone suggests the Democrats shrink the size of the party so they can lose more elections?
 
2020-09-27 2:41:17 PM  

Count Bakula: Z-clipped: Count Bakula: Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room.

"You don't have the leverage to get us off this track," says man about to be run over by freight train. "You should be satisfied that we've moved a few inches toward the rail". 

Farking idiots.

Yes, representative democracy requires convincing people to support things, even ifyou know that those things are life-or-death-level important. It's either that, or you seize power undemocratically and implement those necessary solutions. Being correct does not magically give you that power.


So what are the Democrats doing to convince progressive to vote?
 
2020-09-27 2:42:15 PM  

Count Bakula: Yes, representative democracy requires convincing people to support things


"Why won't someone convince me to save myself and my country?"
 
2020-09-27 2:48:11 PM  
If this election is as life-and-death as the Democrats are saying it is, then the Democratic Party should be doing whatever it takes to ensure that people vote for them, right?  Am I missing something here?

Blaming people for not voting after the fact just makes you a correct loser.  Get progressive votes now, then go back to hating them after the election.
 
2020-09-27 2:50:24 PM  
if you look up "learned helplessness" in the dictionary, there's a photo of the US democratic party
 
2020-09-27 2:50:51 PM  

Murkanen: She isn't wrong.  Democrats keep moderating themselves rightward in effort to appeal to people who'd be happier if everyone left of Genghis Khan found themselves in the ground, and the results have been nothing but decades of extensive losses and now the SCOTUS going 6-3 until some Democratic politicians get the stones to expand the court.

And despite this strategy being a multi-decade failure we still see people whinging that the Democrats just haven't capitulated to the Republicans enough, as the fourth poster did, and that people just need to give it more time to work.


Your reading comprehension still sucks. I didn't suggest capitulation to Republicans, not even close. You conflate not capitulating to the far left of the Democratic party to capitulating to the Republicans. That's a typical binary fallacy. My point was that fishing for far left voters is fishing for very few votes. Many are like you and simply could not be satisfied by anything other than huge shifts by Biden. Small moves won't change your mind. And for people like you, they've either decided that as frustrated as they are, they will at least vote to stop a second term for Trump so that he can't continue to pack the courts, or they have thrown up their hands and said they just won't vote for either Trump or Biden. There simply aren't that many votes to be gained by a small shift to the left. Meanwhile, there are independents that don't like Trump, they don't like his racism, or his abrasiveness, or his corruption, but they are scared of "socialism" --- even though they are fools who are scared of the label but not the actual policies. Those aren't Republicans. They don't want to dismantle social security, or medicare, or any sort of government programs, they're just idiots who were raised to fear "socialism". And there are lots of them. Idiots, but their votes count,.
 
2020-09-27 2:58:45 PM  

austerity101: Count Bakula: Z-clipped: Count Bakula: Your goals may be noble, but that's a disingenuous, Boehner-esque method of negotiation. Unless you have the kind of leverage Boehner had - and you do not - it gets you laughed out of the room.

"You don't have the leverage to get us off this track," says man about to be run over by freight train. "You should be satisfied that we've moved a few inches toward the rail". 

Farking idiots.

Yes, representative democracy requires convincing people to support things, even ifyou know that those things are life-or-death-level important. It's either that, or you seize power undemocratically and implement those necessary solutions. Being correct does not magically give you that power.

So what are the Democrats doing to convince progressive to vote?


Pretending that

a. ousting Trump will magically fix issues that have been steadily building for 40 years and
b. that they weren't instrumental in creating the issues that led to his viability in the first place

Trump is a threat to conservative Democrats, because he intrudes on their peace and quiet.  He reminds them of what's farked up about the status quo they continually support by making them feel a tiny bit of the apprehension that the less fortunate live with every day. He makes them feel less safe about paying the mortgage on their tract housing with those cute little lawns.  That's why they want him out so badly.

I can't farking stand Trump, and will be voting for yet another neoliberal candidate I can't also stand to help get him out of office, just like I did in 2016.  But I can't help but think that maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing for America in the long run if he were to win, because he may be the only cattle prod capable of moving these centrist farksticks off their little ignorant cloud.  When the chips are down, those of us in the liberal urban areas are survivors- we know how to cooperate and know what adversity is.  It's the soft, midwestern suburbs that are going to be Thunderdome.
 
2020-09-27 2:59:29 PM  

misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.


So did Bernie.
 
2020-09-27 2:59:52 PM  

Christian Bale: Does Fark greenlight every single article where someone suggests the Democrats shrink the size of the party so they can lose more elections?


You think asking Democrats to stop chasing Republican voters, who have made it clear they'd rather see you dead than vote for you, is going to shrink a party that only has ~25% of the voting population supporting them?
 
2020-09-27 3:10:08 PM  

GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.

So did Bernie.


Bernie got a seat because he won over 1100 delegates in the primary, and continued to win them in contests long after Biden was declared the de facto winner.  Buttgieg won 15 delegates and vanished after NV.  He's a failed (2-term) small-town mayor with no national political experience.  He shouldn't be anywhere near Biden's table.
 
2020-09-27 3:10:27 PM  

GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.

So did Bernie.


He did? Last I heard, Bernie got one plank of a task force that was supposed to make progressive recommendations but was actually neutered by the lobbyists also put on the task force.
 
2020-09-27 3:12:58 PM  

misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.

So did Bernie.

He did? Last I heard, Bernie got one plank of a task force that was supposed to make progressive recommendations but was actually neutered by the lobbyists also put on the task force.


Also  this.
 
2020-09-27 3:15:50 PM  

misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.

So did Bernie.

He did? Last I heard, Bernie got one plank of a task force that was supposed to make progressive recommendations but was actually neutered by the lobbyists also put on the task force.


He's always a victim, isn't he.
 
2020-09-27 3:23:34 PM  

GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: misanthropicsob: GoldSpider: I voted for Buttegeig. He lost. You didn't see me spend the ensuing months whining about how the "establishment" disenfranchised me or claiming I had a valid pretext for sitting the general election out.

Buttigieg wasn't the establishment and not a placeholder for Joe Biden? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ahh that's right, he was in on the fix!

He's getting a seat on the team for his efforts.

So did Bernie.

He did? Last I heard, Bernie got one plank of a task force that was supposed to make progressive recommendations but was actually neutered by the lobbyists also put on the task force.

He's always a victim, isn't he.


My point was that Pete received a position on the actual transition team (which usually transitions into a cabinet position) in exchange for his efforts to hold the fort for Biden during the Primary.
 
2020-09-27 3:37:04 PM  

Z-clipped: But I can't help but think that maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing for America in the long run if he were to win, because he may be the only cattle prod capable of moving these centrist farksticks off their little ignorant cloud


That strategy sure worked terrifically in 2000 and 2016. Let us return to the beautiful Eden that was created by those elections.
 
2020-09-27 3:40:43 PM  

Insurgent: biden doesn't owe any of you cretins anything. he put in the work. it's his turn to be president. the alternative is the literal end of the world. you owe your vote not only to biden, but the whole democratic party. no criticism will be tolerated. none. VOTE


Get bent, fascist.
 
Displayed 50 of 270 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.