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(The Hill)   Rep. Ilhan Omar suggests maybe the Democrats try winning this time and focus their energy on getting "disaffected" voters to actually show up and vote this time rather than wasting their efforts trying to convince Republicans to leave the cult   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Democratic Party, George W. Bush, Republican Party, Trump voters' Omar fires, John Kerry, President of the United States, Barack Obama, Joe Biden  
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951 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Sep 2020 at 3:05 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-26 11:52:01 PM  
She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.
 
2020-09-27 12:04:10 AM  
She's got a point.

Trumpets are a cult.  They won't learn.
 
2020-09-27 12:47:58 AM  
The time has come for us to flee.
SEPTEMBER 26, 2020

Karleigh Frisbie Brogan

What a name
 
2020-09-27 1:42:59 AM  
Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.
 
2020-09-27 2:06:52 AM  
But no, they'll just tell those voters that they're just as bad as the MAGAts.

And eventually, they will be just to spite them.
 
2020-09-27 2:08:23 AM  

puffy999: The time has come for us to flee.
SEPTEMBER 26, 2020
Karleigh Frisbie Brogan

What a name


Karleigh Frisbie and the Rats of NIMH.
 
2020-09-27 2:35:55 AM  

the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.


"Everyone who didn't vote for us in 2016 is an evil, racist monster!  All you evil, racist monsters had damn well better vote for us in 2020!!"
 
2020-09-27 3:08:19 AM  
I second that.
 
2020-09-27 3:09:56 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 3:12:53 AM  
That's crazy talk, clearly more moving to the right is what's needed.
 
2020-09-27 3:16:02 AM  
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens." -- Friedrich Schiller
 
2020-09-27 3:23:46 AM  
Yeah get the kids off mom's couch long enough to vote.  That plan worked out swimmingly for Bernie's blowouts of hillary and biden.

Oh wait.
 
2020-09-27 3:24:46 AM  

wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.


Stop biatching, it's a business deal. If you want to benefit from things they have, you have to give them what they want. Otherwise pound sand.
 
2020-09-27 3:25:00 AM  

wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.


It's so depressing that there are even that many factions in this country when to any clear minded observer it's more like

1) crazy inept huckster grifter know nothing fool
Vs
2) All in all, remember, like, 2015?  Shiat was pretty cool,right?
 
2020-09-27 3:28:09 AM  
Omar could lead the disaffected. The Dems should let her make local-level promises to them that they will keep. The disaffected don't believe in the national leaders? Maybe they will believe in themselves, if they were given resources. And hand as much to them before the election as possible. Hell, loan federal fleet vehicles to punk bands and campus clubs that need help staying off the bus and agree to carpool for groceries during Covid, as long as they use the fleet vehicles to also register voters and get the vote out on election day. Just farking do stuff like that, since it is tangible, and now, instead of promises, promises, promises...
 
2020-09-27 3:30:41 AM  
I appreciate the squad.  They are the best
 
2020-09-27 3:30:48 AM  
Stop trying to use the election to raise your own profile. All you do is convince people to vote against their own interest. "Oh Biden isn't liberal enough, a Democrat told me - why bother?"

Get more Democrats elected, and you will have a platform to seek greater changes. Infighting only robs you of the change you seek.
 
2020-09-27 3:31:10 AM  

the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.


Bernie lost, again.  Get over it.
 
2020-09-27 3:32:21 AM  
Sure, they could try to mobilize large numbers of people who are less-motivated to vote, but is that really worth giving up the prospect of extending the hand of friendly partnership to disaffected members of a party who want to cut the hand off and feed it to their dogs?
 
2020-09-27 3:33:44 AM  
But that's a winning strategy.
 
2020-09-27 3:40:44 AM  
But then the Democrat would have to push policies that appeal to majority of to voters. You know, the kind of extreme socialism practised in the rest of the developed world.
Education, social security, health cafe.
The horror... The horror...
 
2020-09-27 3:41:58 AM  

the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.


Boobies out of the gate you climbed right up on that cross didn't you. No delay just went right up there didn't you?
 
2020-09-27 3:48:58 AM  
Somebody who voted for Trump is a voter. You know they're paying attention to politics and going to the polls. If you flip them, its -1 for Trump and +1 for you.

Meanwhile, most non-voters don't know the first thing about the political process and the whole thing makes them feel confused and uncomfortable. If they haven't felt any engagement after four straight years of Trump destroying the country then there's no way you're going to pick them up off of the sidelines in the last five weeks of a campaign, and even if you do, it's only a +1 in your column.
 
2020-09-27 3:52:51 AM  
The heck does a black lady from Minnesota know about disenfranchised voters?
 
2020-09-27 3:52:54 AM  
I love this thread already.

I'll just ask it, because no one's asked it yet. If the people who would seriously vote for Trump would change their minds, why does he still poll where he does?

Everyone who thinks courting the middle works clearly refuses to read even one single about why people vote for Treason in the first place. They refuse to read up about why so many democrats sat out the 2016 election. They have their projections about reality, and reject any other possibilities or research. Just like the rest of the right.
 
2020-09-27 3:53:06 AM  

Heliodorus: wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change I teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.

Stop biatching, it's a business deal. If you want to benefit from things they have, you have to give them what they want. Otherwise pound sand.


A business deal for their ever-so-precious tender vote? Vote for Biden or there is ZERO chance of enacting ANY change they desire. That's the deal. I'm saying this as a progressive:  Puerile Pouting Progressives (say that three times fast!) can go fark themselves. I'm done coddling them.
 
2020-09-27 3:56:00 AM  

the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.


Well they do share a lot of the blame.  So how about you "she's not the right woman type" help clean up this mess.
 
2020-09-27 4:02:28 AM  

Heliodorus: wademh: Same tired false choice narrative.
It's not about getting red hats to change teams. It's about the large swath of people who don't like Trump and don't really want to vote for him but have been told for years about how Democrats want to destroy America.

There are more of them than there are die-hard progressives who need to be coddled in order to vote against Trump. The die-hard progressives have either decided to vote for the lesser evil in Biden or have taken their bat and ball and gone home and simply won't return. They've made up their mind. The people to get now are the wishy-washy ones, the rather ditsy ones.

Stop biatching, it's a business deal. If you want to benefit from things they have, you have to give them what they want. Otherwise pound sand.


Ok, it's a business deal. We have one group who has indicated that they want to "do business," in this analogy, to vote. And another group who hasn't. There is a group that apparently doesn't vote (is this the progressive wing?) Why should the nominee cater to them when apparently they don't want to do business? I can offer you everything you could possibly want for an item, but if you don't want to sell, that would be wasting my time.

Here's this about Bernie: "And yet despite a virtual tie in Iowa, a narrow victory in New Hampshire and a big triumph in Nevada, the first three nominating contests reveal a fundamental challenge for Mr. Sanders's political revolution: He may be winning, but not because of his longstanding pledge to expand the Democratic base.
The results so far show that Mr. Sanders has prevailed by broadening his appeal among traditional Democratic voters, not by fundamentally transforming the electorate." (from: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0​2/24/us/​politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-vot​ers.html ) He didn't bring in non-voters.

So why should we try to appeal to a group of non-voters? How will convincing non-voters to support Biden help Biden win an election?

I didn't support Biden in the primary and am more than a little annoyed that I have to be voting for him for president when there were so many other great candidates, but I don't think the better strategy is to go after people who haven't shown that they care about voting.
 
2020-09-27 4:03:26 AM  

Clearly Canadian: I love this thread already.

I'll just ask it, because no one's asked it yet. If the people who would seriously vote for Trump would change their minds, why does he still poll where he does?

Everyone who thinks courting the middle works clearly refuses to read even one single about why people vote for Treason in the first place. They refuse to read up about why so many democrats sat out the 2016 election. They have their projections about reality, and reject any other possibilities or research. Just like the rest of the right.


What?

The goal is to get those people who don't vote.

Literally the only people who seem to want to get Trump voters themselves are idiots like Biden, but they're not in this thread.
 
2020-09-27 4:03:33 AM  

the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.


The primaries were full of different candidates. They didn't show up then, why are they gonna show up now? The thing we know about Republicans who voted for Trump is that they did vote.

I'm not saying don't try, but let's not pretend they didn't have options before.
 
2020-09-27 4:08:06 AM  
When Dems reach right, they aren't trying to get David duke and the proud boys' vote. They are chasing the 90 million non-voters.

Some progressives believe the bulk of whatever portion of that 90 million can be convinced to vote is progressive. They also believe chasing them will cost few votes from the center.

Other people believe that the bulk of the influencable 90 million is moderate, and that chasing them will cost fewer hard left votes than they gain.

Both are right in specific locations, I'm sure. I don't know which strategy is the best; I do know anyone complaining they are too center for Dems or too leftist for Dems should show the fark up at a primary and be heard. I also know there is no logical explanation for Dems to deliberately choose the wrong strategy.

However corrupt you may find them, being in office is superior to losing.

I don't know how to convince the party to lean left more than center when their leftists can't win primaries.
 
2020-09-27 4:08:19 AM  
You have to do both. You need all of the left and the majority of the middle, because you can be shiatsure the right will turn out for evil.

So you have to work with the progressive wing, compromise, give, listen to us. You will get better policy out of it and you will win long term. You also have to try to persuade the 'middle' of the truth, that the left and mid-left agenda is MUCH better for them and theirs.

I mean the reality is on your side here, your policies (both the ones I and those with me on what the US sees as far-left and those that are more 'mainstream dem') are hugely better for ordinary people than anything the right will ever do.. so its right and proper to message that, and the target includes a large chunk of people who have for years been fooled into voting rightwards.
 
2020-09-27 4:08:38 AM  
This presumes that the non voter class could be swayed by left policies.
 
2020-09-27 4:17:07 AM  
This has nothing to do with centrist and far-left and everything to do with corporate donors. Don't buy the propaganda.

A majority of Dems, Independents and Republicans support legalizing marijuana and federal funding for maternity leave. A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives. Why don't they try to grab as many votes as possible and add these popular policies to their platform?
 
2020-09-27 4:18:18 AM  

Smackledorfer: When Dems reach right, they aren't trying to get David duke and the proud boys' vote. They are chasing the 90 million non-voters.

Some progressives believe the bulk of whatever portion of that 90 million can be convinced to vote is progressive. They also believe chasing them will cost few votes from the center.

Other people believe that the bulk of the influencable 90 million is moderate, and that chasing them will cost fewer hard left votes than they gain.

Both are right in specific locations, I'm sure. I don't know which strategy is the best; I do know anyone complaining they are too center for Dems or too leftist for Dems should show the fark up at a primary and be heard. I also know there is no logical explanation for Dems to deliberately choose the wrong strategy.

However corrupt you may find them, being in office is superior to losing.

I don't know how to convince the party to lean left more than center when their leftists can't win primaries.


The party doesn't need to shift to "free taxpayer abortions in every town over 500 people" or "no guns ever" like the myth seems to be, the one that a lot of these undecided voters may buy.

But the reality is this: we don't know farkall about "leftists winning primaries" when THE PARTY ITSELF IS OPPOSING THE LEFTISTS IN MOST CASES.
I'm not Bro-ing there. My Rep is DeFazio, a rather moderate Democrat, but a wise one who deserves to keep winning. He wins, seemingly in part by representing liberal Democrats as well as 80s style Oregon Republicans... But sadly the Democratic Party doesn't endorse the few right-leaning ideas he has, either, so instead of a guy who should have 70% of the vote each year, he's dragged into a fight.
 
2020-09-27 4:19:58 AM  

Likwit: A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives.


Until they hear they have to pay for it
 
2020-09-27 4:20:20 AM  
Finally, someone with some damn sense.
 
2020-09-27 4:20:55 AM  

Saiga410: This presumes that the non voter class could be swayed by left policies.


Please explain to the class all of the current right-wing policies (reality-based, not bullshiat talking points) that would convince someone to vote for them.
 
2020-09-27 4:22:55 AM  

Scythed: Somebody who voted for Trump is a voter. You know they're paying attention to politics and going to the polls. If you flip them, its -1 for Trump and +1 for you.

Meanwhile, most non-voters don't know the first thing about the political process and the whole thing makes them feel confused and uncomfortable. If they haven't felt any engagement after four straight years of Trump destroying the country then there's no way you're going to pick them up off of the sidelines in the last five weeks of a campaign, and even if you do, it's only a +1 in your column.


The people who voted for Obama and then Trump, the kinds of people who made the difference in the state's that mattered?  Do you suppose they're "centrist"?  I think they're the people who are trying to vote against business as usual.

Nearly every working person in the country, of any race, knows that what we're doing now isn't working.  It's become obvious even to idiots.  They were trying to stop the cycle of "everything is pretty much ok, let's just tinker".

Republicans are going to learn, politically not substantively, from the populism wave on both "sides".  And they're going to have candidates who aren't Trump-level morons to carry their message.  And Democrats will react to that, and look like the business as usual party again.

It's not going to work.  We keep waiting for Republicans to decide what they are then working from there to decide what *we* are, what we can get away with, how to sell *just enough* (precious little) of what we want.  People can see it, and it's going to become *less* effective, not more.

We need to decide what we are, and let Republicans respond.  This is the last Trump we're going to get who doesn't know what they're doing.  The next one's gonna kill us if we keep doing this
 
2020-09-27 4:23:24 AM  
That totally worked for Bernie in the primary.  Let's try it again in the general!
 
2020-09-27 4:23:35 AM  

gaspode: You have to do both. You need all of the left and the majority of the middle, because you can be shiatsure the right will turn out for evil.

So you have to work with the progressive wing, compromise, give, listen to us. You will get better policy out of it and you will win long term. You also have to try to persuade the 'middle' of the truth, that the left and mid-left agenda is MUCH better for them and theirs.

I mean the reality is on your side here, your policies (both the ones I and those with me on what the US sees as far-left and those that are more 'mainstream dem') are hugely better for ordinary people than anything the right will ever do.. so its right and proper to message that, and the target includes a large chunk of people who have for years been fooled into voting rightwards.


In Michigan Bernie beat Hillary. Bernie lost to Biden.

Trump wins with the purple states or he loses.

Unless you believe the Midwest has a silent progressive majority, it appears fully embracing the left is not a path to victory. Yes, the primary vote isn't perfectly representative of the general election, but Michigan had mail in voting. If progressives couldn't mail in a ballot why believe they are a voting group we can get in the general?

I say this as an increasingly frustrated progressive. My folks either don't give a fark at the end of the day, or they are fewer in number than I'd like. That's the only reasonable conclusion.

If we didn't have the electoral college I would agree going heavy progressive would be the path to victory.

Lastly, Biden did move left to satisfy Bernie himself to some extent. Is my voting group so fickle that they don't even follow his guidance when he throws support behind Biden? Based on Fark commenters... Yes, yes they are. They are people who cannot accept they aren't the majority. They are people who are so obsessed with clean hands and purity they will throw away three farking scotus seats to avoid being sullied, and STILL talk about how both sides are the same, even while covid is a mess and blm protests are all over.

They are fickle bastards and by all appearances it would be a mistake to prioritize them.
 
2020-09-27 4:23:57 AM  

New Burner Account: Likwit: A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives.

Until they hear they have to pay for it


Maybe someone should tell them how much the Trump tax cut has/will cost them.
 
2020-09-27 4:26:26 AM  

puffy999: But the reality is this: we don't know farkall about "leftists winning primaries" when THE PARTY ITSELF IS OPPOSING THE LEFTISTS IN MOST CASES.


The party didn't do shiat to block or disenfranchise them in Michigan in 2020. Am I wrong? If so, how did that go down, exactly?

Usps conspiracy? Votes not counted?

If you can't explain that, your claim is bullshiat.
 
2020-09-27 4:50:35 AM  
Omar, FTFA:   "For every moderate, suburban Republican on the fence about Trump, there are lines of cooks, homeworkers, dishwashers, cashiers and farm workers who would vote a straight Democratic ticket if they were just given a reason to do so."

Not if they're not registered to vote they wouldn't.

If Omar wants to go out and register voters, fine.  But if she wanted more of the people she talks about to influence the upcoming election, she should have gotten out there and inspired people to register many months ago.  As it is, the next presidential election these people could possibly influence is the one in 2024--that is, if we still have a republic by then.
 
2020-09-27 5:05:06 AM  

monsatano: New Burner Account: Likwit: A majority of Dems and Independents support a higher minimum wage, free or reduced tuition for state schools, M4A, and green energy initiatives.

Until they hear they have to pay for it

Maybe someone should tell them how much the Trump tax cut has/will cost them.


And how much the military costs them. We could cut the budget in half to save every American taxpayer $2,500 bucks a year and still outspend China by $100B.
 
2020-09-27 5:10:53 AM  

Naido: the unabomber was right: She thinks that will work better than yelling at and blaming all third party and non-voters for this being their fault and they should be ashamed of themselves? Doesn't sound like the Democrats I know.

"Everyone who didn't vote for us in 2016 is an evil, racist monster!  All you evil, racist monsters had damn well better vote for us in 2020!!"


It's pretty much true, though.
 
2020-09-27 5:12:08 AM  

Boo_Guy: That's crazy talk, clearly more moving to the right is what's needed.


Surprised you got any funny votes for this tired drap.
 
2020-09-27 5:24:52 AM  

tirob: Omar, FTFA:   "For every moderate, suburban Republican on the fence about Trump, there are lines of cooks, homeworkers, dishwashers, cashiers and farm workers who would vote a straight Democratic ticket if they were just given a reason to do so."

Not if they're not registered to vote they wouldn't.

If Omar wants to go out and register voters, fine.  But if she wanted more of the people she talks about to influence the upcoming election, she should have gotten out there and inspired people to register many months ago.  As it is, the next presidential election these people could possibly influence is the one in 2024--that is, if we still have a republic by then.


"If they were just given a reason to do so."

If you don't have a reason now you never will.
 
2020-09-27 5:25:06 AM  
I'm sure the  voters who didn't turn out for Sanders would totally turn out for Biden.

Trump is the "burn everything down candidate" Biden can't beat him on that.

Polls show he already is getting those voters like white women and older voters. So saying he can't do it makes no sense.
 
2020-09-27 5:30:51 AM  

Enigmamf: Stop trying to use the election to raise your own profile. All you do is convince people to vote against their own interest. "Oh Biden isn't liberal enough, a Democrat told me - why bother?"

Get more Democrats elected, and you will have a platform to seek greater changes. Infighting only robs you of the change you seek.


Well spoken.  A+
 
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