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(Esquire)   Dan Rather is old as dirt and out of farks to give   (esquire.com) divider line
    More: Hero, George W. Bush, CBS News, Donald Trump, Vice President of the United States, Richard Nixon, Dan Rather, President of the United States, CBS Evening News  
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11885 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 27 Sep 2020 at 1:05 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-26 9:59:34 PM  
I think for the people who read the entire thing, they should pick out one thing that people who aren't going to read the whole thing should read. Here's mine:

ESQUIRE: You spent a lot of time with Donald Trump in 1999, the first time he ran for president, for a 60 Minutes segment. What stands out in your mind about the experience?

RATHER
: Well, one, Donald Trump invited us into the bedroom one night when Melania was already in bed and he was getting ready for bed. And it was "Come right on in!" He was not embarrassed, and she was not embarrassed. I remember being embarrassed and sort of saying, I don't think so.

Another thing that stands out in my mind was how controlling Donald Trump wanted to be. He was super cooperative, as evidenced by the "come into the bedroom, get a shot in here, that'll get an audience." He couldn't help himself. He was trying to produce the piece. At that time, he had the Trump Shuttle, or some airline bearing his name, and he wanted us to fly with him to Mar-a-Lago. And we thought, Should we do this or just buy our own tickets? And he wouldn't hear of it. He said, "Oh my God, you've gotta be on the plane and shoot on the plane. What kind of piece is this going to be if you're not on the plane?"

He was a born salesman. His image of himself was that he was a supersalesman. That he could sell ice to Eskimos. That, just give me a chance with a potential customer and I can sell it.

He hated the piece, which said: He says he's running a presidential campaign, but basically what it is is a campaign to sell golf-club memberships and condominiums. Which he was.

Well, the minute it ran, effectively any relationship we had, no matter how tenuous it may have been, was over. It was one of those telephone calls where you have to hold the phone away from your ear, into which he was giving me a good tongue-lashing and cursing about how he had helped me, he had cooperated for me, he had known me a number of years and he trusted me. Which was the last conversation of any sort that I had with him.
 
2020-09-26 10:05:29 PM  
Another good one is about giving people we don't agree with a platform by interviewing them. Alex Jones was the example. His point was these people already have a platform. It's our job to question them.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

In the end, maybe there are some new people that have never heard of the guy that now agree with him. But mostly the rest of us gain insight on the truth.
 
2020-09-26 10:40:29 PM  
Great interview
Can't believe he's almost ninety...

/Peanut butter, soda crackers and vienna sausages are goin' in the bugout bag!
 
2020-09-26 10:49:17 PM  

jaylectricity: Another good one is about giving people we don't agree with a platform by interviewing them. Alex Jones was the example. His point was these people already have a platform. It's our job to question them.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

In the end, maybe there are some new people that have never heard of the guy that now agree with him. But mostly the rest of us gain insight on the truth.


Rogan is a farking moronic toad who is so goddamn imprssionable he'll parrot any right wing idiocy they want him to. He's a blithering, gullible fool.

How you managed to get him into a thread about Dan Rather is grotesque and shameful.
 
2020-09-26 11:13:44 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Rogan is a farking moronic toad who is so goddamn imprssionable he'll parrot any right wing idiocy they want him to. He's a blithering, gullible fool.


Go back to wherever your talking points come from.
 
2020-09-26 11:40:27 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: How you managed to get him into a thread about Dan Rather is grotesque and shameful.


Dan Rather himself was basically defending Joe Rogan. He talked about Alex Jones and specifically said it was the interviewers duty to talk to him to find the truth. I wish the interviewer brought that up. Because that has been a MAJOR interview that people were up in arms about.

That Joe Rogan had the audacity to have a little fun with it is not even the point. Most people that were mad about that didn't even listen/watch it.

That's the problem with people is they don't look into anything. They just hear the thing that pings their radar.

This isn't about Rogan...it's about how Dan Rather feels about giving anybody with opposing views platforms.
 
2020-09-27 12:01:25 AM  
Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.
 
2020-09-27 12:41:19 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.


It isn't the journalists, IMHO. They DO exist.

The corporate news entities who hire people to cover news don't hire hard-hitting journalists usually. They have some LOCAL news journalists who do little fluff pieces from time to time, but rarely the big stories. Why, that might expose a friend of the newspaper, or an investor. We can not have that.

And independent journalism is a dying breed. With a world where you're hammered in the face with options as a consumer, you REALLY have to stand out in order to have your story noticed.
 
2020-09-27 12:43:14 AM  
Entities worthy of respect are bought up by hedge funds and either destroyed from within or just shuttered...
 
2020-09-27 1:08:17 AM  
I'm sure that one of the fox news - the network of rape lovers - can tell everyone how much Dan Rather doesn't support their worship of rape and putin.
 
2020-09-27 1:16:54 AM  

jaylectricity: Another good one is about giving people we don't agree with a platform by interviewing them. Alex Jones was the example. His point was these people already have a platform. It's our job to question them.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

In the end, maybe there are some new people that have never heard of the guy that now agree with him. But mostly the rest of us gain insight on the truth.


Those were two great posts of yours back-to-back there.  Very nicely encapsulated the article and the overarching sentiments, IMO
 
2020-09-27 1:21:54 AM  
Great stuff. This is my Dan Rather tribute theme song. He truly is a legend
White Zombie - I Am Legend (1992)
Youtube rqORIya-0gY
 
2020-09-27 1:22:44 AM  
He never did have many farks to give, and I think he ran out in November 2016.
 
2020-09-27 1:22:50 AM  

jaylectricity: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Rogan is a farking moronic toad who is so goddamn imprssionable he'll parrot any right wing idiocy they want him to. He's a blithering, gullible fool.

Go back to wherever your talking points come from.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 1:25:07 AM  
Does he have any fake faxes left to give?
 
2020-09-27 1:27:35 AM  

Sensei Can You See: Does he have any fake faxes left to give?


Hurrrrrrrr!
 
2020-09-27 1:27:41 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.


Really? You're asking what happened to Rather's credibility and the "fake-but-accurate" faxes didn't come to mind?
 
2020-09-27 1:28:04 AM  

Sensei Can You See: Does he have any fake faxes left to give?


Fewer than Tucker Carlson has white supremacist writers, I'll wager.
 
2020-09-27 1:28:12 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.


Clearly we need a cloning project.  Now where can we find young non-degraded DNA from them?
 
2020-09-27 1:28:49 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 1:30:12 AM  

Sensei Can You See: Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

Really? You're asking what happened to Rather's credibility and the "fake-but-accurate" faxes didn't come to mind?


There's no such concept as 'the fruit of the poisoned tree' in journalism. If bad evidence uncovers truth, you move past the bad evidence to report the truth you found. Bush was a draft dodger, plain and simple.
 
2020-09-27 1:30:20 AM  
Dan Rather may not be the right person to talk about low points in history.
 
2020-09-27 1:30:20 AM  

jaylectricity: Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.


horseshiat.  Rogan isn't Rather.  rogan is promoting those motherfarkers and it's blatantly obvious that he is doing so
 
2020-09-27 1:31:46 AM  

Alien Robot: [Fark user image 450x202] [View Full Size image _x_]


Alien Robot pretending to post in good-faith:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 1:35:11 AM  

Alien Robot: [Fark user image 450x202] [View Full Size image _x_]


You don't think Rove wasn't smart enough that he could take an actual memo text, and reprint it on a laser printer to bait a trap?
 
2020-09-27 1:37:17 AM  

Alien Robot: [Fark user image image 450x202]


Slap the name Biden in for Bush and you'd be telling everyone it was the gospel truth. Sorry, Trumpers have no good-faith allowance. Now run along and stare at crotch bulges in Ben Garrison cartoons, shorty.
 
2020-09-27 1:39:01 AM  

puffy999: Entities worthy of respect are bought up by hedge funds and either destroyed from within or just shuttered...


that's true of a lot of shiat, especially online. I've seen it happen to a lot of websites. ...they get "gawker'ed".
 
2020-09-27 1:39:13 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.


They are clueless how to handle Trump.

They are playing by the 1940's rule book.  It's 2020. Trump has changed the rules and they still haven't caught on.
 
2020-09-27 1:41:37 AM  

HempHead: Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.

They are clueless how to handle Trump.

They are playing by the 1940's rule book.  It's 2020. Trump has changed the rules and they still haven't caught on.


Trump has a totally craven major political party's support. Even FDR didn't have that during WW effing 2. It's not that Trump lies, it's that the GOP will not refute anything he says.
 
2020-09-27 1:43:55 AM  
Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.
 
2020-09-27 1:45:34 AM  

daffy: Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.


ok
 
2020-09-27 1:45:45 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.


Two things:

1. The introduction of the 24hr news cycle. Gotta fill all those minutes, just churn out any old schlock.
2. The "News Business" morphed into the "Entertainment Industry".
 
2020-09-27 1:45:59 AM  

daffy: Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.


So he should work for trump?
 
2020-09-27 1:46:35 AM  

jaylectricity: Another good one is about giving people we don't agree with a platform by interviewing them. Alex Jones was the example. His point was these people already have a platform. It's our job to question them.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

In the end, maybe there are some new people that have never heard of the guy that now agree with him. But mostly the rest of us gain insight on the truth.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.


How's "Give awful people an audience and normalize them until the audience decides they want to associate with them" working out for you in the US?

You like the results so far?
 
2020-09-27 1:46:36 AM  

daffy: Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 1:47:36 AM  

daffy: Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.


This is why critical thinking skills need to be taught at a very early age
 
2020-09-27 1:48:38 AM  

jaylectricity: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Rogan is a farking moronic toad who is so goddamn imprssionable he'll parrot any right wing idiocy they want him to. He's a blithering, gullible fool.

Go back to wherever your talking points come from.


Nah. Rogan, who you seem to be in love with, is a jerkwad who doesn't even deserve a lobotomy. He's a disgrace to public discourse and you deserve to play in traffic.
 
2020-09-27 1:48:40 AM  

Murkanen: jaylectricity: Another good one is about giving people we don't agree with a platform by interviewing them. Alex Jones was the example. His point was these people already have a platform. It's our job to question them.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

In the end, maybe there are some new people that have never heard of the guy that now agree with him. But mostly the rest of us gain insight on the truth.

Everybody gets on Joe Rogan for having certain people on. But by doing so, he's exposing them. Even if he's laughing with them at certain parts of the interview. He's helping to reveal their motivations which helps all of us see them for who they are by asking questions about their positions.

How's "Give awful people an audience and normalize them until the audience decides they want to associate with them" working out for you in the US?

You like the results so far?


It's as if Enoch Powell had been a guest on Parkinson once a week in the 70s.
 
2020-09-27 1:51:46 AM  

Enigmamf: you move past the bad evidence


This is the problem, he didn't.  He put the bad evidence front and center.
 
2020-09-27 1:52:39 AM  

jaylectricity: He was a born salesman. His image of himself was that he was a supersalesman. That he could sell ice to Eskimos. That, just give me a chance with a potential customer and I can sell it.


In which Dan Rather repeats the lie of Trump as a salesman.

What kind of "salesman" manages to fail at selling booze, steak and gambling to Americans? Sell ice to eskimos... Trump would go bankrupt trying to sell ice in farking Egypt.
 
2020-09-27 1:53:14 AM  
Lovesandwich:

Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

Deregulation of the broadcast news and the repeal of the fairness doctrine?
 
2020-09-27 1:53:51 AM  

berylman: daffy: Rather is a liar. He could not tell the truth if you put a gun to his head.

This is why critical thinking skills need to be taught at a very early age


You mean skills like how to tell when someone is just trying to get a rise out of you?  Yeah that would help.
 
2020-09-27 1:54:28 AM  

Kirablue42: puffy999: Entities worthy of respect are bought up by hedge funds and either destroyed from within or just shuttered...

that's true of a lot of shiat, especially online. I've seen it happen to a lot of websites. ...they get "gawker'ed".


Gawker once published an article that offended me, so it's totally ok that one of the Owner Class bankrolled their destruction.
 
2020-09-27 1:56:31 AM  
Speaking of no f*cks left to give... I'm watching that episode of DS9 where Julian plows that mute chick who becomes non-mute and then mute again after she Rainman's the blackjack table.

Also, I'm pretty sure Julian plowed that big-eared pale mute because he was medically certain he was the first. He even told her "I love you" hoping he get her to snap out of it like some Awakenings kinda shiat. Seeing the look on his face, all I can think is he's smart and knows she can't give consent if she can't speak.

And the flirty Rainwomen is like, pretty hot and totally bangable but not as hot as her confidence lets on.

Back to Dan Rather. Whatever. He's old as shiat his news is pretty good, or whatever

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 1:58:32 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Alien Robot: [Fark user image 450x202] [View Full Size image _x_]

You don't think Rove wasn't smart enough that he could take an actual memo text, and reprint it on a laser printer to bait a trap?


If he did, is Dan Rather too stupid to recognize it? Yes, yes, he is.
 
2020-09-27 1:59:57 AM  

aerojockey: Enigmamf: you move past the bad evidence

This is the problem, he didn't.  He put the bad evidence front and center.


The bad evidence lead to interviews with Bush's superior officers, who confirmed that favors got Bush his appointment and that Bush was AWOL for the rest of his enlistment. Those interviews were front and center.

Only Bush's damage-control efforts focused on the letter. And that's why right-wingers only remember the letter. You fell hook-line-and-sinker for right-wing political theater.
 
2020-09-27 2:01:32 AM  

Alien Robot: Vlad_the_Inaner: Alien Robot: [Fark user image 450x202] [View Full Size image _x_]

You don't think Rove wasn't smart enough that he could take an actual memo text, and reprint it on a laser printer to bait a trap?

If he did, is Dan Rather too stupid to recognize it? Yes, yes, he is.


No one cares, troll.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-27 2:02:02 AM  

Alien Robot: Vlad_the_Inaner: Alien Robot: [Fark user image 450x202] [View Full Size image _x_]

You don't think Rove wasn't smart enough that he could take an actual memo text, and reprint it on a laser printer to bait a trap?

If he did, is Dan Rather too stupid to recognize it? Yes, yes, he is.


A Trump guy calling someone stupid. Priceless.
 
2020-09-27 2:08:53 AM  

recombobulator: Sensei Can You See: Does he have any fake faxes left to give?

Hurrrrrrrr!


Just to be clear: I'm a journalist and I admired Dan Rather for many years; I still do to some extent. I loved when he got in Nixon's face, and he was a tireless field reporter for many years.

But when Rather and Mary Mapes ran the story with the fake Killian faxes and all that, I was shocked and more disappointed than I know how to describe.

All else aside, if you're an investigative journalist for an international news agency, you do not, repeat NOT, run a story that depends utterly and entirely on an anonymous source. Period, new paragraph. Even when Woodward and Bernstein managed to unseat Nixon, they didn't just pass along everything they heard from Deep Throat. Deep Throat gave them plenty of tips, but if they couldn't confirm or corroborate something, they set it aside.

Mapes was younger than Rather, and although she had to have had some chops to be a CBS producer, I could let her early interest in the too-good-to-be-true faxes slide. But even if you're fresh out of college, you know that if a story seems too good to be true, it probably isn't. And even before the Little Green Footballs guys showed how the faxes were Microsoft Word documents (and I wouldn't hold that against her either), the faxes weren't just too good to be true. They were exponentially too good to be true.

Okay, so again: We have a younger producer with a lot to prove who's no fan of Bush; anyone can get too invested in a story and get blind to issues with it. One way or another, she decided she had something worth showing to Rather.

I have no doubt, by the way, that Bush's dad got him a cushy position stateside to keep him away from Vietnam, and that Bush was a slacker in the military. As a journalist, I noticed that he didn't deny any such allegations; he just avoided them. So the Killian faxes, even if they were real, were hardly bombshells.

Here's what Rather, who had 40+ years in reporting under his belt by that time, should have done. He should have asked Mapes to show him everything she had on her mysterious fax benefactor and his faxes. And since we know what she had, I can confidently say what he should have done next:

He should have told Mapes, "Listen; I know this is exciting stuff and I don't like Bush any more than you do. But if you want to run with this we need hard evidence. Put some meat on these bones if you can and then we'll talk."

Instead, he decided to run with her story.

Remember we're talking about someone in the top 10 American journalists of all time; he was at the top of his game. If he ran with this story he's staking his 40+ years of credibility and the network's credibility on a story he knew was full of holes.

I don't know if he managed to convince himself it was true; or if he looked at the looming election and convinced himself it was worth the risk; or if he knew the story was riddled with holes, but hoped if it could hold water till the election it would worth it if Bush lost.

When I saw that infamous gif of the faxes flipping back and forth with the Word documents, it was the first time I'd seen what the contested faxes looked like. My first thought wasn't "Aha! They're fake!" My first thought was "They didn't even TRY to check these faxes for authenticity?"

Mapes was young enough that she's probably been able to rebuild her career to some extent.

But Rather was left with a legacy of "He was an amazing journalist until he blew it all on an attempted October surprise and resigned in disgrace."
 
2020-09-27 2:09:38 AM  

Lovesandwich: Growing up with first Walter Cronkite, and then Dan Rather, I look at the current crop of journalists and wonder what happened with the integrity that these people used to have.

We need more Dan Rather's in the world.


What happened?   The Telecommunications Act of 1996 happened.  You can thank Bill Clinton for that.  He sure was a true blue 'Democrat.'
 
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