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(WDRB Louisville)   Kentucky Supreme Court says there is such a thing as a speed limit   (wdrb.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Speed limit, Louisville, Kentucky, Kentucky Supreme Court, speed limits, Miles per hour, Law, Kentucky drivers, State supreme court  
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4896 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2020 at 11:31 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



40 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-09-25 5:05:12 PM  
So Kentucky is still one huge speed trap? Good to know.


/Fark speed traps
 
2020-09-25 8:45:25 PM  
How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?
 
2020-09-25 9:09:23 PM  

tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?


That's not what she said at all.
 
2020-09-25 11:42:00 PM  
No biggie.  The police are busy.  Punch it.
 
2020-09-25 11:46:39 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

Can't drive 55....in a golf cart....

/Took him 18 hours to get to tee 13....
 
2020-09-25 11:55:15 PM  
"The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?
 
2020-09-25 11:57:59 PM  
That's just, like, their opinion man...
 
2020-09-26 12:04:07 AM  

recombobulator: "In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?


Also FTFA: Curry's case was eventually dismissed.
Sounds like they thought about it just enough.
 
2020-09-26 12:13:04 AM  

tyyreaunn: recombobulator: "In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?

Also FTFA: Curry's case was eventually dismissed.
Sounds like they thought about it just enough.


Sure, the judge did, but those quotes were all (according to the article) from the guy's lawyer.  He didn't think it through.
 
2020-09-26 12:13:52 AM  
That is why smart travelers know better than to even create joinder with the traffic cop in the first place.
 
2020-09-26 12:18:37 AM  
Apparently people can't get out of Kentucky fast enough.
 
2020-09-26 12:21:40 AM  
There is no mention of speed limits in the Magna Carta.   See, the attornet should've gone with that, since it always works.   Also, a sovereign citizen is not subject to such nonsense.
 
2020-09-26 12:40:28 AM  
Is speed limit confusion what causes Kentucky drivers to slam on the brakes at the end of an interstate on ramp instead of merging?
 
2020-09-26 12:56:09 AM  
Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop. Your normal speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side when he sees the big red light behind him ... and then he will start apologizing, begging for mercy.

This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop-heart. The thing to do - when you're running along about 100 or so and you suddenly find a red-flashing CHP-tracker on your tail - what you want to do then is accelerate. Never pull over with the first siren-howl. Mash it down and make the bastard chase you at speeds up to 120 all the way to the next exit. He will follow. But he won't know what to make of your blinker-signal that says you're about to turn right.

This is to let him know you're looking for a proper place to pull off and talk ... keep signaling and hope for an off-ramp, one of those uphill side-loops with a sign saying "Max Speed 25" ... and the trick, at this point, is to suddenly leave the freeway and take him into the chute at no less than 100 miles an hour.

-noted Kentuckian Hunter S Thompson
 
2020-09-26 1:01:31 AM  

tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?


Came here to say this.
 
2020-09-26 1:50:36 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 299x169]
Can't drive 55....in a golf cart....

/Took him 18 hours to get to tee 13....


Sammy could never do the math right.

If what used to take two hours now takes all day, taking 16 hours to get to LA would mean that the trip had previously taken only 1 1/3 hours. As we all know, there's nowhere worth going that's only 1 1/3 hours from LA.
 
2020-09-26 1:54:07 AM  

cyberspacedout: Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 299x169]
Can't drive 55....in a golf cart....

/Took him 18 hours to get to tee 13....

Sammy could never do the math right.

If what used to take two hours now takes all day, taking 16 hours to get to LA would mean that the trip had previously taken only 1 1/3 hours. As we all know, there's nowhere worth going that's only 1 1/3 hours from LA.


Could you even get out of the city limits via road in an hours and a half if you started from the city center?
My guess would be no...
 
2020-09-26 2:00:51 AM  

Alunan: tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?

Came here to say this.


recombobulator: "The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?


First of all, the issue the lawyer brought up is perfectly valid if you're into strict interpretations of the law- the speeding laws in KY don't reference or describe traffic control devices.  In theory, anyone could put up any type of sign that said "Speed Limit 160mph" and it would have the same legal authority as a sign erected by the state from the perspective of a legal layperson.

You and I and most others assume that the speed limit signs are legally binding because they are in other places (where the legislators who wrote the laws probably had all their teeth and graduated from high school) but there's no actual verbiage linking them to the legal limit in this particular state.  Hence, yeah, he was speeding, but the law is badly written and if you're a letter-of-the-law type, you'd have to conclude that it needs to be changed before it can exclude this defense.  The state SC are apparently NOT letter-of-the-law types, at least when it comes to this matter, but the judge who dismissed the initial ticket clearly was.

Second, and more generally, our speed laws (even the well-written ones) actually ARE extremely arbitrary and confusing as fark in this country when you consider how they're enforced.  Most people drive above the limit a lot of the time, and most police do not pull people over for doing so most of the time.  Most of us would agree that there's some kind of buffer zone where you can break the limit and not be pulled over, but how large it is can easily vary from 0-30 mph depending on any number of factors, some of which unfortunately include things like the race of the driver and whether the offender's plates are from out-of-state.

Our extremely heavy reliance on speed enforcement as a standard of safety should be reexamined and changed, and police have should not have anywhere near their current degree of discretionary powers in traffic stops in general.  Personally, I don't think we need to post hard limits in most places.  Traffic calming infrastructure is much more effective at creating safe roads, and cameras are more impartial when used properly in the few spots where the actual safe speed is significantly less than the apparent safe speed.
 
2020-09-26 2:44:13 AM  

tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?


Not the speed limit. She said the laws are unconstitutional as written. When they can be found. Speed limit signs are not laws, though the Kentucky Supreme Court couldn't be arsed to find and look at them either.
 
2020-09-26 2:52:51 AM  
Kentucky mandates speed limits of 65 miles per hour on interstates and parkways

That's simply not true. I don't think I've seen a Speed Limit 65 sign anywhere in the state. Not only are the interstates and parkways all 70, but you can be rolling along I-64 at the pace of traffic in a wolfpack doing about 85 and see a state trooper glide past in the left lane at maybe 90, no lights or sirens, without even glancing over at you.

So I'd imagine this guy's real objective was a straw-grasping effort to get that ticket knocked down below the 26-over threshold.
 
2020-09-26 3:45:20 AM  
12 million miles a minute and that's the fastest thing there is.
 
2020-09-26 7:28:49 AM  
Jefferson District Court Judge Julie Kaelin believes the Constitution is a suicide pact.  It would be funny if she dies by being hit by a speeding redneck.  Now, that's irony!
 
2020-09-26 10:41:31 AM  

cyberspacedout: As we all know, there's nowhere worth going that's only 1 1/3 hours from LA.


At 3AM on a Tuesday, you could get to San Diego or Santa Barbara. Both of them beautiful (offer not valid during wildfires).
 
2020-09-26 10:43:22 AM  

Z-clipped: Alunan: tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?

Came here to say this.

recombobulator: "The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?

First of all, the issue the lawyer brought up is perfectly valid if you're into strict interpretations of the law- the speeding laws in KY don't reference or describe traffic control devices.  In theory, anyone could put up any type of sign that said "Speed Limit 160mph" and it would have the same legal authority as a sign erected by the state from the perspective of a legal layperson.

You and I and most others assume that the speed limit signs are legally binding because they are in other places (where the legislators who wrote the laws probably had all their teeth and graduated from high school) but there's no actual verbiage linking them to the legal limit in this particular state.  Hence, yeah, he was speeding, but the law is badly written and if you're a letter-of-the-law type, you'd have to conclude that it needs to be changed before it ca ...


Or, you could just look at the posted speed limit signs, and don't exceed that, and never have a problem, and be much safer.
 
2020-09-26 10:57:12 AM  
ftfa: 'Kentucky Supreme Court has overruled a Louisville judge who last year threw out major sections of the state's speeding laws after finding them vague'

Can't imagine anyone being shocked by this.
Illiterates who can't read signs?  Limit them to golf carts and mopeds.
 
2020-09-26 10:57:26 AM  
How is that sad?
 
2020-09-26 10:58:08 AM  

Jackal_N: So Kentucky is still one huge speed trap? Good to know.


I mean, if by "speed trap" you mean "will definitely pull you over for doing 36 MPH over the speed limit when you're already in a 55 MPH zone", then I'm pretty sure Earth is one huge speed trap.
 
2020-09-26 11:02:28 AM  

Z-clipped: Alunan: tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?

Came here to say this.

recombobulator: "The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?

First of all, the issue the lawyer brought up is perfectly valid if you're into strict interpretations of the law- the speeding laws in KY don't reference or describe traffic control devices.  In theory, anyone could put up any type of sign that said "Speed Limit 160mph" and it would have the same legal authority as a sign erected by the state from the perspective of a legal layperson.

You and I and most others assume that the speed limit signs are legally binding because they are in other places (where the legislators who wrote the laws probably had all their teeth and graduated from high school) but there's no actual verbiage linking them to the legal limit in this particular state.  Hence, yeah, he was speeding, but the law is badly written and if you're a letter-of-the-law type, you'd have to conclude that it needs to be changed before it can exclude this defense.  The state SC are apparently NOT letter-of-the-law types, at least when it comes to this matter, but the judge who dismissed the initial ticket clearly was.

Second, and more generally, our speed laws (even the well-written ones) actually ARE extremely arbitrary and confusing as fark in this country when you consider how they're enforced.  Most people drive above the limit a lot of the time, and most police do not pull people over for doing so most of the time.  Most of us would agree that there's some kind of buffer zone where you can break the limit and not be pulled over, but how large it is can easily vary from 0-30 mph depending on any number of factors, some of which unfortunately include things like the race of the driver and whether the offender's plates are from out-of-state.

Our extremely heavy reliance on speed enforcement as a standard of safety should be reexamined and changed, and police have should not have anywhere near their current degree of discretionary powers in traffic stops in general.  Personally, I don't think we need to post hard limits in most places.  Traffic calming infrastructure is much more effective at creating safe roads, and cameras are more impartial when used properly in the few spots where the actual safe speed is significantly less than the apparent safe speed.


Like most things in America, speed laws are half-assed.
 
2020-09-26 11:05:16 AM  

caljar: Z-clipped: Alunan: tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?

Came here to say this.

recombobulator: "The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?

First of all, the issue the lawyer brought up is perfectly valid if you're into strict interpretations of the law- the speeding laws in KY don't reference or describe traffic control devices.  In theory, anyone could put up any type of sign that said "Speed Limit 160mph" and it would have the same legal authority as a sign erected by the state from the perspective of a legal layperson.

You and I and most others assume that the speed limit signs are legally binding because they are in other places (where the legislators who wrote the laws probably had all their teeth and graduated from high school) but there's no actual verbiage linking them to the legal limit in this particular state.  Hence, yeah, he was speeding, but the law is badly written and if you're a letter-of-the-law type, you'd have to conclude that it needs to be changed before it ca ...

Or, you could just look at the posted speed limit signs, and don't exceed that, and never have a problem, and be much safer.


It's amazing to me how otherwise normal people get so self-righteous about speed laws.

Do you hang out with the "I don't own a TV crowd"?
 
2020-09-26 11:27:13 AM  
An asshole in a car or pickup going 93 is bad enough. I'd like to know how semi's get away going that fast just because they are going downhill, or really all the time.  I hate driving in Kentucky especially when the roads are Icy or even wet.
 
2020-09-26 11:36:21 AM  

cyberspacedout: Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 299x169]
Can't drive 55....in a golf cart....

/Took him 18 hours to get to tee 13....

Sammy could never do the math right.

If what used to take two hours now takes all day, taking 16 hours to get to LA would mean that the trip had previously taken only 1 1/3 hours. As we all know, there's nowhere worth going that's only 1 1/3 hours from LA.


For a while there when people were halfass trying not to travel, our times were WAY the hell off.  We were figuring someone in L.A. would take x hours to get back, no sorry hour and a bit.  A lot of "You're back already?"  Played hob with scheduling
 
2020-09-26 11:51:25 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop. Your normal speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side when he sees the big red light behind him ... and then he will start apologizing, begging for mercy.

This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop-heart. The thing to do - when you're running along about 100 or so and you suddenly find a red-flashing CHP-tracker on your tail - what you want to do then is accelerate. Never pull over with the first siren-howl. Mash it down and make the bastard chase you at speeds up to 120 all the way to the next exit. He will follow. But he won't know what to make of your blinker-signal that says you're about to turn right.

This is to let him know you're looking for a proper place to pull off and talk ... keep signaling and hope for an off-ramp, one of those uphill side-loops with a sign saying "Max Speed 25" ... and the trick, at this point, is to suddenly leave the freeway and take him into the chute at no less than 100 miles an hour.

-noted Kentuckian Hunter S Thompson


Works for me.
 
2020-09-26 11:58:17 AM  

Hoopy Frood: Kentucky mandates speed limits of 65 miles per hour on interstates and parkways

That's simply not true. I don't think I've seen a Speed Limit 65 sign anywhere in the state. Not only are the interstates and parkways all 70, but you can be rolling along I-64 at the pace of traffic in a wolfpack doing about 85 and see a state trooper glide past in the left lane at maybe 90, no lights or sirens, without even glancing over at you.

So I'd imagine this guy's real objective was a straw-grasping effort to get that ticket knocked down below the 26-over threshold.


My state had a law that said 'if it's unmarked, it's 45 mph.'  That was fairly sensible of them.  They also had some rule about having a sign within a mile of any on-ramp or somethjng like that. Been a while.
 
2020-09-26 12:02:09 PM  

caljar: Or, you could just look at the posted speed limit signs, and don't exceed that, and never have a problem, and be much safer.


According to the law as enforced, doing the speed limit while texting in your lap is "safer" than going 11 over while paying attention to the road.  If you think that makes any sense or has any basis in actual science or civil engineering, you have no business speaking about this topic at all.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-09-26 12:16:22 PM  
The defendant had a good point about the speed limit law viewed in isoation. You might have to rappel into the basement and open the locked cabinet in the disused lavatory to find the official document setting the speed limit on the road. The prosecutor had a better point about the speed limit law in context. There's a separate law that calls for speed limit signs so law-abiding citizens don't get their faces eaten by leopards. In one sense the law is obscure. You have to find the law saying the state can set traffic sign standards and follow a chain of references until you get to the actual standards which come from the federal DOT, and read through a thousand pages to find the rule that says if the speed limit is 55 on that highway in Kentucky it should be posted on signs. In another sense it isn't obscure. Most normal people could recognize a speed limit sign if for some peculiar reason they cared.
 
2020-09-26 1:55:10 PM  

caljar: Z-clipped: Alunan: tjsands1118: How farking stupid does a person have to be to think a speed limit on public roadways is unconstitutional, and how does that person become a judge?

Came here to say this.

recombobulator: "The case stemmed from a speeding ticket received by Kevin Curry in October 2018, when he was pulled over heading south on Interstate 71 clocked at 93 miles per hour not far from Indian Hills, an area with a posted speed limit of 55."

He sounds rich and white.

"His attorney, Greg Simms didn't complain that the officer's radar was faulty, but rather that Kentucky's speeding laws are 'convoluted' and unclear as to what the speed limit is on a given road in the state."

And entitled.

"In Curry's case, Simms claimed it wasn't possible to know what the proper speed was on the section of I-71 where he was driving. He said he wasn't able to find a state order or local ordinance backing up the 55-mile-per hour sign on a road that by law is supposed to allow speeds 10 miles per hour greater."

You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?

First of all, the issue the lawyer brought up is perfectly valid if you're into strict interpretations of the law- the speeding laws in KY don't reference or describe traffic control devices.  In theory, anyone could put up any type of sign that said "Speed Limit 160mph" and it would have the same legal authority as a sign erected by the state from the perspective of a legal layperson.

You and I and most others assume that the speed limit signs are legally binding because they are in other places (where the legislators who wrote the laws probably had all their teeth and graduated from high school) but there's no actual verbiage linking them to the legal limit in this particular state.  Hence, yeah, he was speeding, but the law is badly written and if you're a letter-of-the-law type, you'd have to conclude that it needs to be changed b ...


Remember that when the speed limit drops from 55 to 35 with zero warning, and a cop just happens to be sitting behind the 35 MPH speed limit sign, radar gun in hand.
 
2020-09-26 3:30:59 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: cyberspacedout: Mr. Shabooboo: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 299x169]
Can't drive 55....in a golf cart....

/Took him 18 hours to get to tee 13....

Sammy could never do the math right.

If what used to take two hours now takes all day, taking 16 hours to get to LA would mean that the trip had previously taken only 1 1/3 hours. As we all know, there's nowhere worth going that's only 1 1/3 hours from LA.

Could you even get out of the city limits via road in an hours and a half if you started from the city center?
My guess would be no...


On the freeways, sure, as long as it's not rush hour. Depending on whether you mean the geographical center or the "downtown" area, in that amount of time, you could make it as far as Bakersfield - hence my claim of nowhere worth going.
 
Al!
2020-09-26 6:18:00 PM  

cfreak: Do you hang out with the "I don't own a TV crowd"?


I don't own a TV, and I am reasonably certain I have never even met caljar. I'm not pretentious; I don't own a TV because I'm poor.
 
2020-09-26 8:49:21 PM  

recombobulator: You were going 93 mph and you're arguing that the speed limit might have been 65?  You haven't thought about this at all, have you?


No, he argued that the law calls for AT LEAST a speed limit of 65 on that road type.  Given the sign saying 55  is not only inconsistent with the law, and signs are not referenced in the law anyway, there's no way to know the actual speed limit.  It's at least 65, but could be 70 or 80, etc..
 
2020-09-26 11:43:00 PM  
How far was he over in parsecs? The details matter here.
 
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