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(The Ringer)   In which a writer defends Alien 3 by comparing it to The Last Jedi. You're doing it wrong   (theringer.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Alien Resurrection, Aliens, Alien 3, Sigourney Weaver, Alien franchise, Ellen Ripley, Alien fans, David Fincher Week  
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401 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 25 Sep 2020 at 12:34 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-25 11:17:15 AM  
Two bad movies don't make a good one.
 
2020-09-25 12:38:22 PM  
provided he can convince the studio to fund another sequel after Covenant's tepid box-office haul. (Please, give Ridley Scott all the money.)

No. What a stupid suggestion. Ridley had good ideas that are now so convoluted/confusing and he's so up his own ass about how revolutionary they are that he doesn't deserve any money. Prometheus was a disappointing mess and Covenant, while being slightly less messy, was still a disappointment.
 
2020-09-25 12:40:31 PM  
Both are the third-best films in their franchises, so that makes sense.
 
2020-09-25 12:42:36 PM  
Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..
 
2020-09-25 12:44:17 PM  
I knew there was something familiar about the stink on that movie.
 
2020-09-25 12:45:15 PM  
It was okay considering how hamstrung the production was.
 
2020-09-25 12:47:34 PM  

fallingcow: Both are the third-best films in their franchises, so that makes sense.


It only gets 3rd place if you put it alone in a category with the two Ewok movies.
 
2020-09-25 12:48:28 PM  

scottydoesntknow: provided he can convince the studio to fund another sequel after Covenant's tepid box-office haul. (Please, give Ridley Scott all the money.)

No. What a stupid suggestion. Ridley had good ideas that are now so convoluted/confusing and he's so up his own ass about how revolutionary they are that he doesn't deserve any money. Prometheus was a disappointing mess and Covenant, while being slightly less messy, was still a disappointment.


This. Give All The Monies to someone who can give us a good adaptation of Earth War. That's what we want dammit, not this weird Engineer diaspora genetic seeding nonsense. Who the hell thought tying the alien universe into the origin of humans as a species was a good idea?
 
2020-09-25 12:52:19 PM  
The only thing worth while in Covenant was that slasher style shower slaying.
 
2020-09-25 12:54:45 PM  

zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..


Its biggest problem so far as legacy is it's the only good film in the trilogy, and it's in the middle. It's stuck between a badly-written, lazy soft reboot and an actual trash fire in film form, nearly as fundamentally broken as Batman v Superman (no surprise, given the writers).
 
2020-09-25 12:56:58 PM  

Spartapuss: The only thing worth while in Covenant was that slasher style shower slaying.


What really pissed me off is how they just offed Watts between movies. Prometheus was setting her up to be the Ripley 2.0. And what does Scott do? Have David kill and autopsy her to study. They Newted her! Why did she give David a new body when she knows he's the entire reason everyone she knew is dead? What an insult to the audience.
 
2020-09-25 12:59:54 PM  
I didn't think Aliens 3 was all that bad
 
2020-09-25 1:01:38 PM  

zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..


Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them. And we see what the result of that was: a critically panned movie that made less money even though it should have easily bested the 2nd movie in a trilogy

The lesson is: Never listen to angry white people on the internet.
 
2020-09-25 1:02:47 PM  
I actually like Alien 3.

It has its flaws, of course, but it's a perfectly good capstone to the Alien trilogy.   It brings Ripley full circle.

It had to be the way it was, too, because if the USS Sulaco makes it back with Ripley, Hicks, and Newt OK, along with the information contained in Bishop, killing xenomorphs becomes a walk in the park.   They could go back to the alien ship on LV-426, which was far away from the blast that would have leveled Hadley's Hope, and simply collected more samples, but do it safely, with adequate containment.

And probably with some sort of chemical to neutralize the acid.  After all, the xenomorphs use it for blood, or some internal purpose, and they're immune to it, so there has to be some kind of way to counter-act it.

So having Ripley land on a prison planet where there aren't any effective weapons is a good choice, as is killing off Hicks and Newt.   Killing off Newt was a no-brainer, because Carrie Henn was 10 years old when Aliens was filmed, and she was 16 years old when they filmed Alien3.  They'd have had to bring in a new actress or explain the new assets.
 
2020-09-25 1:03:48 PM  
I liked Alien 3.  It was bleak as hell, which I guess I was in the mood for at the time.
 
2020-09-25 1:03:48 PM  

Magruda: fallingcow: Both are the third-best films in their franchises, so that makes sense.

It only gets 3rd place if you put it alone in a category with the two Ewok movies.


Star Wars
Empire (I'd entertain flipping 1 & 2 but Star Wars launched the whole "genre pastiche film" thing so is kind of a big deal)
Last Jedi
ROTJ
(large gap here)
Rogue One
TFA
Solo
TPM (suck it, people who think ROTS was the best of this garbage trilogy)
(another, smaller gap)
ROTS
Rise of Skywalker
Battle for Endor
Ewok Adventure (my feelings about the order of these two are not strong)
AOTC
Holiday Special
 
2020-09-25 1:03:53 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I didn't think Aliens 3 was all that bad


I don't think David Fincher is capable of making a bad movie
 
2020-09-25 1:04:26 PM  

TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.


That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.
 
2020-09-25 1:05:08 PM  

TDWCom29: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..

Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them. And we see what the result of that was: a critically panned movie that made less money even though it should have easily bested the 2nd movie in a trilogy

The lesson is: Never listen to angry white people on the internet.


I think the real lesson is that bringing race into something poisons the dialogue forever going forward.
 
2020-09-25 1:05:53 PM  

fallingcow: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..

Its biggest problem so far as legacy is it's the only good film in the trilogy, and it's in the middle


Nah, for what it is TFA is pretty good. Everyone was pretty much in agreement with that (check the imdb rating and RT score) until TLJ made nerds sad
 
2020-09-25 1:06:42 PM  

fallingcow: Its biggest problem so far as legacy is it's the only good film in the trilogy, and it's in the middle. It's stuck between a badly-written, lazy soft reboot and an actual trash fire in film form, nearly as fundamentally broken as Batman v Superman (no surprise, given the writers).


I'd argue there's some issues with pacing and character development; it drags a bit in places and Finn is, IMO, badly underdeveloped as a character (not that Rise of Skywalker did him any favors; it's more a series issue that TLJ didn't try and fix).

The sequences with Luke and the arc they gave him are one of my favorite Star Wars elements in the Skywalker 9-movie saga.
 
2020-09-25 1:07:12 PM  
I actually loved Alien 3. It harkened back to the first with a bunch of people with no real weapons trying to figure out how to stay alive.

/4 can DIAF though
 
2020-09-25 1:08:09 PM  

EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.

That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.


Since TLJ is a good movie (again check the critics score, and even the IMDB score which is pretty good despite the massive downvote campaign) I'd say that's a good sign to not let the cast make the creative decisions
 
2020-09-25 1:08:52 PM  

dittybopper: TDWCom29: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..

Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them. And we see what the result of that was: a critically panned movie that made less money even though it should have easily bested the 2nd movie in a trilogy

The lesson is: Never listen to angry white people on the internet.

I think the real lesson is that bringing race into something poisons the dialogue forever going forward.


Oh lighten up cracker
 
2020-09-25 1:08:54 PM  
It didn't take me 3 viewings of Alien 3 to make it through without falling asleep.
 
2020-09-25 1:08:59 PM  

fallingcow: Magruda: fallingcow: Both are the third-best films in their franchises, so that makes sense.

It only gets 3rd place if you put it alone in a category with the two Ewok movies.

Star Wars
Empire (I'd entertain flipping 1 & 2 but Star Wars launched the whole "genre pastiche film" thing so is kind of a big deal)
Last Jedi
ROTJ
(large gap here)
Rogue One
TFA
Solo
TPM (suck it, people who think ROTS was the best of this garbage trilogy)
(another, smaller gap)
ROTS
Rise of Skywalker
Battle for Endor
Ewok Adventure (my feelings about the order of these two are not strong)
AOTC
Holiday Special


I can only find 3 Star Wars movies in that list. Did I miss something?
 
2020-09-25 1:09:26 PM  
Alien:Resurrection was worse than Alien3, but interesting in that it's a proto-Firefly.   Joss Whedon wrote the script, and you can see some very strong parallels between A:R (1997)  and Firefly (2002).
 
2020-09-25 1:11:43 PM  

TDWCom29: EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.

That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.

Since TLJ is a good movie (again check the critics score, and even the IMDB score which is pretty good despite the massive downvote campaign) I'd say that's a good sign to not let the cast make the creative decisions


Of course critics liked TLJ. It felt like it was written by a critic who turned an angry screed against Star Wars in general and Force Awakens in particular into a screenplay. They recognized one of their own.
 
2020-09-25 1:11:53 PM  

TDWCom29: fallingcow: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..

Its biggest problem so far as legacy is it's the only good film in the trilogy, and it's in the middle

Nah, for what it is TFA is pretty good. Everyone was pretty much in agreement with that (check the imdb rating and RT score) until TLJ made nerds sad


It was probably the worst-plotted film in the Star Wars trilogy, to that point. Not the worst written overall, but worst-plotted. Good effects, great casting (as always, JJ's a farking master at that), actors are working hard, but the plot's lazy crap, even by the standards of a popcorn sci-fi flic, and not just because of all the cribbing it does from earlier films. Laugh-out-loud bad plotting is another JJ hallmark, unfortunately.

It's watchable, which puts it around the middle for Star Wars films. Lightsaber fight at the end is worth the price of admission. It's OK.
 
2020-09-25 1:12:29 PM  

TDWCom29: dittybopper: TDWCom29: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..

Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them. And we see what the result of that was: a critically panned movie that made less money even though it should have easily bested the 2nd movie in a trilogy

The lesson is: Never listen to angry white people on the internet.

I think the real lesson is that bringing race into something poisons the dialogue forever going forward.

Oh lighten up cracker


thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size


Good Cracker!
 
2020-09-25 1:12:32 PM  

TDWCom29: EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.

That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.

Since TLJ is a good movie (again check the critics score, and even the IMDB score which is pretty good despite the massive downvote campaign) I'd say that's a good sign to not let the cast make the creative decisions


I mean, now that I think of it Harrison Ford basically hated Star Wars and practically begged to have his character killed off for 30 years. Guess all of Star Wars is bad because he didn't like it!
 
2020-09-25 1:14:11 PM  

EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.

That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.

Since TLJ is a good movie (again check the critics score, and even the IMDB score which is pretty good despite the massive downvote campaign) I'd say that's a good sign to not let the cast make the creative decisions

Of course critics liked TLJ. It felt like it was written by a critic who turned an angry screed against Star Wars in general and Force Awakens in particular into a screenplay. They recognized one of their own.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Of course

At least you didn't go with the tried-and-true "Disney paid them off" excuse. Of course this one is much, much stupider

Face it, the only people who passionately hate the movie are super-fans who were mad because Johnson shat on the concept of fan service
 
2020-09-25 1:14:39 PM  

zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi.


Tried watching TLJ again on Disney+ and it's just unwatchable from literally every conceivable level from the cringe crank phone call to the inexplicable space bombers to Jedi Mary Jane to bastardizing embittered old Luke "Nephew Killer" Skywalker and on and on and on.

Literally everything that showed up on the screen was just a horrific, nonsensical mess of a movie sandwiched in between two other horrific, nonsensical messes of movies. IMHO, the entire nu-trilogy was a poorly thought out, planned, and executed dumpster fire that only succeeded in making George Lucas look like a goddamned genius, Jar Jar included.

My only hope is that many movie-making careers died while bringing us these abominations. May they find peace while working their sections at the local Applebee's.
 
2020-09-25 1:15:47 PM  
There's nothing particularly wrong with Alien 3 other than it being DULL.
 
2020-09-25 1:17:14 PM  

dittybopper: Alien:Resurrection was worse than Alien3, but interesting in that it's a proto-Firefly.   Joss Whedon wrote the script, and you can see some very strong parallels between A:R (1997)  and Firefly (2002).


The crew of the Betty is basically the prototype Serenity crew.
 
2020-09-25 1:17:37 PM  

DaWormyPimpsta: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi.

Tried watching TLJ again on Disney+ and it's just unwatchable from literally every conceivable level from the cringe crank phone call to the inexplicable space bombers to Jedi Mary Jane to bastardizing embittered old Luke "Nephew Killer" Skywalker and on and on and on.

Literally everything that showed up on the screen was just a horrific, nonsensical mess of a movie sandwiched in between two other horrific, nonsensical messes of movies. IMHO, the entire nu-trilogy was a poorly thought out, planned, and executed dumpster fire that only succeeded in making George Lucas look like a goddamned genius, Jar Jar included.

My only hope is that many movie-making careers died while bringing us these abominations. May they find peace while working their sections at the local Applebee's.


Hahahahahahahaha

Yeah Rian Johnson is going to never work in Hollywood again
Also I like that things that made you so mad are a funny joke that lasted literally 30 seconds and the physics of something in a world where the physics of everything doesn't make sense
 
2020-09-25 1:17:48 PM  
The alternate cut of Alien 3 on the DVD/blu-ray is far better than the theatrical release and is very much worth watching.
 
2020-09-25 1:20:27 PM  

chozo13: I actually loved Alien 3. It harkened back to the first with a bunch of people with no real weapons trying to figure out how to stay alive.

/4 can DIAF though


The Betty = Serenity
Frank Elgyn = Malcolm Reynolds
Ron Johner = Jayne Cobb
Sabra Hillard = Zoe
Gary Christie  = Wash

Clone Ripley and Annalee Call = River Tam.

It really is a dark and gritty Firefly, but with xenomorphs.
 
2020-09-25 1:21:40 PM  

zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi. I know there are a LOT of passionate people who disagree, but Empire wasn't beloved when it came out too..


I've argued before and will argue again, yes, the humor was pretty cringe-inducing and the casino side adventure was wholly unnecessary -- it's far from a flawless movie -- but at least The Last Jedi had something to say.

JJA's two flicks were just a 12-yar-old playing with his toys. "Hey, remember this!? Watch this, this will be cool! Vrooom!"

I respect the attempt of TLJ more than I do the paint0by-numbers fan fiction of TFA and RoS.
 
2020-09-25 1:22:58 PM  

DaWormyPimpsta: zappadog: Time will prove kind to The Last Jedi.

Tried watching TLJ again on Disney+ and it's just unwatchable from literally every conceivable level from the cringe crank phone call to the inexplicable space bombers to Jedi Mary Jane to bastardizing embittered old Luke "Nephew Killer" Skywalker and on and on and on.

Literally everything that showed up on the screen was just a horrific, nonsensical mess of a movie sandwiched in between two other horrific, nonsensical messes of movies. IMHO, the entire nu-trilogy was a poorly thought out, planned, and executed dumpster fire that only succeeded in making George Lucas look like a goddamned genius, Jar Jar included.

My only hope is that many movie-making careers died while bringing us these abominations. May they find peace while working their sections at the local Applebee's.


I gave TLJ a second watch when it came to Netflix because I figured it must not have been as good as I remember, after everyone shiating on it on Fark and elsewhere.

Nope, still really good. Not perfect, but really good.

Absolutely did not expect all the hate for it, coming out of the theater the first time. "Well TFA was pretty mediocre, but hey, this was the first good Star Wars movie since the 80s, this is great, now I have hope for IX!" reads the Internet "whoa, holy shiat, what... just what?"
 
2020-09-25 1:26:39 PM  

TDWCom29: EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: EdgeRunner: TDWCom29: Time is kind to it now. It was critically lauded and made the same zillion dollars all Star Wars movies make. The only problem with the movie is the butthurt brigade (who are in the vast minority) was so loud JJ and co tried to placate them.

That "butthurt brigade" included a lot of the cast. JJ totally failed to placate John Boyega though. His character still never got his due.

Since TLJ is a good movie (again check the critics score, and even the IMDB score which is pretty good despite the massive downvote campaign) I'd say that's a good sign to not let the cast make the creative decisions

Of course critics liked TLJ. It felt like it was written by a critic who turned an angry screed against Star Wars in general and Force Awakens in particular into a screenplay. They recognized one of their own.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Of course

At least you didn't go with the tried-and-true "Disney paid them off" excuse. Of course this one is much, much stupider

Face it, the only people who passionately hate the movie are super-fans who were mad because Johnson shat on the concept of fan service


Right, the Walkers at the end weren't fan service. They appear for a hot minute because they're so vital to the plot. Same for Yoda, Han's lucky dice, the Emperor's old throne room... Definitely no fan service in that movie!

Face it, that whole trilogy coasted on nothing but fan service. The only new aspects were added by Abrams, and most of them were terrible.

/personally I do like TLJ better than Alien 3 in one respect: Nobody cares if you point out that Alien 3 was a bad movie, but you can still get a lively response by mentioning that TLJ sucked.
 
2020-09-25 1:27:03 PM  
Not my favorite of the three Alien movies that were ever made, but it is in no way akin to that dumpster fire, TLJ.
 
2020-09-25 1:32:35 PM  

EdgeRunner: Face it, that whole trilogy coasted on nothing but fan service. The only new aspects were added by Abrams, and most of them were terrible.


Ah, I'm pretty sure I've read some complaining about new things in TLJ. That seems to be most of the complaints, actually.
 
2020-09-25 1:32:54 PM  

JNowe: Not my favorite of the three Alien movies that were ever made, but it is in no way akin to that dumpster fire, TLJ.


In the sense that it takes everything the previous movie set up for a sequel and immediately burns it all down, Alien 3 and TLJ are kind of similar. Both movies are also at least an hour too long, and end on a main character sacrifice that doesn't have anywhere near the impact the filmmakers thought it would.
 
2020-09-25 1:35:15 PM  
Another film I like that is generally not liked is Alien vs. Predator: Requiem.
 
2020-09-25 1:38:12 PM  
 
2020-09-25 1:38:16 PM  

fallingcow: EdgeRunner: Face it, that whole trilogy coasted on nothing but fan service. The only new aspects were added by Abrams, and most of them were terrible.

Ah, I'm pretty sure I've read some complaining about new things in TLJ. That seems to be most of the complaints, actually.


The only big new additions were Holdo's suicide run and Luke becoming a bitter old hermit, both of which I believe were handwaved away. But it did lay the seeds for the stupid new power of Force teleportation of objects, so okay, fine. TLJ had some really bad canon-changing ideas too. Happy?
 
2020-09-25 1:45:02 PM  

EdgeRunner: fallingcow: EdgeRunner: Face it, that whole trilogy coasted on nothing but fan service. The only new aspects were added by Abrams, and most of them were terrible.

Ah, I'm pretty sure I've read some complaining about new things in TLJ. That seems to be most of the complaints, actually.

The only big new additions were Holdo's suicide run and Luke becoming a bitter old hermit, both of which I believe were handwaved away. But it did lay the seeds for the stupid new power of Force teleportation of objects, so okay, fine. TLJ had some really bad canon-changing ideas too. Happy?


Huh. I'd class the use of force-teleportation/projection in IX as being just about the only parts of that movie that were entertaining as intended, rather accidentally entertaining by being laugh-at-not-with funny. Doesn't hurt that they're all Kylo/Rey scenes, and they're... man, the actors are really trying, they're trying very hard, and they do seem to be good at their jobs, and it does help some.
 
2020-09-25 1:48:49 PM  

DaWormyPimpsta: TDWCom29:

[Fark user image 720x900]


Hahahahahahahahaha!!! What the hell is this nonsense? Communicating by meme is bad enough as it is, but that one ... holy.
 
2020-09-25 1:50:55 PM  

EdgeRunner: /personally I do like TLJ better than Alien 3 in one respect: Nobody cares if you point out that Alien 3 was a bad movie, but you can still get a lively response by mentioning that TLJ sucked.


Says more about you than the folks you're talking to, bro. :)
 
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