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(Fox 43 Pennsylvania)   Who saw this coming? More than 250,000 saws sold at Lowe's recalled due to staying on after you turn them off   (fox43.com) divider line
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3198 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2020 at 8:50 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-25 11:19:20 AM  
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i can be 8 years old or 48. this is the look on my dads face when he gets back a tool i used.
 
2020-09-25 11:33:54 AM  
I used to be a carpenter like 20 years ago.  When it comes to power tools, if you're just using it for the occasional DIY project here and there, go ahead and buy the cheap brands *Ryobi, Milwaukee etc...*, if you're using it to make a living, and/or for side jobs, pay the extra money for the name brands *DeWalt, Bosch etc...*, never buy the house brand.

Even Craftsman, which was a house brand and the name brand for all sorts of hand tools, put their logo on absolute garbage power tools.
 
2020-09-25 11:41:12 AM  

electricjebus: I used to be a carpenter like 20 years ago.  When it comes to power tools, if you're just using it for the occasional DIY project here and there, go ahead and buy the cheap brands *Ryobi, Milwaukee etc...*, if you're using it to make a living, and/or for side jobs, pay the extra money for the name brands *DeWalt, Bosch etc...*, never buy the house brand.

Even Craftsman, which was a house brand and the name brand for all sorts of hand tools, put their logo on absolute garbage power tools.


Milwaukee isn't on the "cheap" end of the spectrum in either price or quality.

/carpenter
//DeWalt whore
 
2020-09-25 11:45:49 AM  

spleef420: electricjebus: I used to be a carpenter like 20 years ago.  When it comes to power tools, if you're just using it for the occasional DIY project here and there, go ahead and buy the cheap brands *Ryobi, Milwaukee etc...*, if you're using it to make a living, and/or for side jobs, pay the extra money for the name brands *DeWalt, Bosch etc...*, never buy the house brand.

Even Craftsman, which was a house brand and the name brand for all sorts of hand tools, put their logo on absolute garbage power tools.

Milwaukee isn't on the "cheap" end of the spectrum in either price or quality.

/carpenter
//DeWalt whore


My info is 20 years out of date... had some bad experiences.

/Glad to hear DeWalt is still good, we were worried at the time as they had just gotten bought out by Black & Decker.
 
2020-09-25 11:49:44 AM  
th.bing.comView Full Size

Off switch?
 
2020-09-25 12:00:43 PM  

The Third Man: Michael J Faux: Anyone who has ever bought a Kobalt tool and has the ability to learn from their mistakes saw this coming.

I was happy with the Kobalt utility knife I bought, but then it's hard to screw up a utility knife.

/If it has to be powered, I'll take DeWalt


Now that I can afford it I buy Dewalt every time.  I have yet to be disappointed.
 
2020-09-25 12:07:04 PM  

Truck Fump: Michael J Faux: Anyone who has ever bought a Kobalt tool and has the ability to learn from their mistakes saw this coming.

Chinese Quality Tools

Honestly, how hard is it to make a tool that does what it's supposed to?  It's not like trigger switches are a new concept. Some bright light decided to engineer his own switch?


Well we replaced the metals with plastic.
Then we replaced the plastic with toxic slag.
 
2020-09-25 12:20:42 PM  
You could say these saws will cause a ....
<puts on sunglasses>
Chain Reaction
 
2020-09-25 12:22:59 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: Greek: max_pooper: TheGreatGazoo: There's that many electric chainsaws out there just from that brand?

The people who lived in my house before me had a plug in electric chainsaw.  It was a great idea until two trees came down across the driveway and power was out for a week.

That's why you have a generator. I have transitioned to all electric lawn equipment. Electric motors require no maintenance and can sit in the garage all winter completely forgotten about and they start right up in the spring. It's much easier to keep one small engine up and running than a half dozen+.

In the last couple years, battery technology has improved to where that's actually feasible. 2 or 3 years ago, you'd pay like $500 for a 40v push mower with a piddling battery that lasted 20 minutes or so between charges and barely had enough power to mow grass that had only gone a week since the last mow. Now, $350 gets you an 80v self-propelled mower with plenty of power that will go at least an hour before needing recharged. Still a bit more than the gas powered equivalent, but no need to screw around with engine maintenance, transporting and storing fuel, remembering to either empty the gas tank or add fuel stabilizer to it in the fall, etc.

I have an Echo trimmer, edger, leaf blower, and chainsaw that are all over 20 years old and a hedge trimmer over 10 years old and they all start within 4 pulls.  I use TruFuel or an equivalent and don't have to worry about it going bad or the ethanol destroying seals.  For $15-$20, I can get a carburetor, fuel lines, spark plug, air filter, and a bunch of other knick knacks from eBay.  I go through mowers about every 7 years, but zoysia and lots of tree roots will do that.

How long do the battery packs last?  3-5 years?  And they are what, $80+ each to replace until they are deemed obsolete and you can't get new ones?

I have a plug in electric pole saw and an alligator lopper.


I never said they were for everyone. As a mechanic, I also maintain and repair my equipment, so it lasts a long time. Not everyone has the skills or desire to do that. And battery powered equipment still has a long way to go before it's ready for commercial use. However, battery obsolescence isn't a big issue, since if the OEM discontinues a battery type, someone else will still make them. As for how long the batteries last, well, it depends on how you store and use them, but 3-5 years isn't far off. But if you're using TruFuel, you're almost certainly spending more on fuel in that time than someone who uses battery powered equipment will spend on batteries.

Personally, I have an ancient push mower that I grabbed from a scrap pile when I bought my house 13 years ago. Cleaned and rebuilt the carb, changed the spark plug, sharpened the blade, and I'm still using it today. I also have a Ryobi 18v trimmer and blower that I bought at the same time. My yard is small enough that gas powered would have been ridiculous. A large part of why I chose the Ryobi stuff (all my power tools are from them as well) is because they've used the same battery platform for years and years, and at the time, were switching to lithium, but they made the batteries backwards compatible with the old tools, and the new tools backwards compatible with the old batteries. Now, that trimmer and blower would be a joke if I didn't live in the city with a small yard. At the same time, the modern stuff is more than adequate for a suburban yard, and to the average person who (wastefully) replaces their gas powered tools when they break down instead of getting them fixed, it's actually far more cost effective.
Of course, that also means people like me won't find easily repaired equipment that people are getting rid of...
 
2020-09-25 12:37:44 PM  
I like to economize, but not on auto parts or chainsaws.  Chainsaws are by far more dangerous than other power saws due to the conditions where they're used, in the field on trees rather than on dimensional lumber.   You want a saw that brakes reliably when it kicks back.
 
2020-09-25 12:49:32 PM  
electricjebus:
/Glad to hear DeWalt is still good, we were worried at the time as they had just gotten bought out by Black & Decker.

The problem is DeWalt slaps their name on a lot of crap because the yellow and black case sells.They still make good stuff on the higher end, but you really need to pay attention to model numbers and stuff when you buy, even within the same line and with the same name on the box.

Milwaukee does the same on some stuff hand tool wise, but at least have left their power tools alone.

You can go to walmart and buy a DeWalt drill for 50 bucks that is nothing but a $30 repainted B&D with a case.

My other peve is that dewalt brands their stuff as 20v......when its 20v peak.....the same thing that every other decent manufacture's 18v line is.
 
2020-09-25 12:55:57 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: I like to economize, but not on auto parts or chainsaws.  Chainsaws are by far more dangerous than other power saws due to the conditions where they're used, in the field on trees rather than on dimensional lumber.   You want a saw that brakes reliably when it kicks back.


The only answer then is a Stihl.....

The Rancher line from Husq is the next best bet if you need to save a 1 or 200 bucks.

But if there is literally one tool that i know i won't use frequently, but when i need it, there is a good chance its an emergency, its a chainsaw, and its worth the extra dough.
 
2020-09-25 12:56:09 PM  

LineNoise: robodog: The Craftsmen brushless stuff is ok, a step up from something like entry level Ryobi. The problem is like every Stanley tool the batteries are stupid expensive and I have no idea how committed they are to the form factor, Ryobi has kept the One+ battery system compatible for nearly 20 years (dating back to NiCad!) and Home Depot is much healthier than Lowes (though I believe the new Craftsmen has some distribution outside Lowes so SBD might keep the platform alive even without them, maybe). Personally if I was getting in right now it would be Ryobi or Bauer unless you're in some oddball place where there's a Lowes that is convenient but not a Home Depot or Harbor Freight.

I'm milwaukee myslef. M18 line. They have both brushed and brushless in it, so for the stuff you don't really care about brushless for, you can save some coin. That battery system has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere, there are like, a dozen differet types you can buy, and you can get bare tool off the shelf of most things at HD if you are in a pinch. They also have like any tool you can think of in the line.

I've abushed the living hell out of some of mine, and they refuse to quit.

Plus the charger supports the 12 line so if you do mix in a few of those, you can use the same charger. I really don't know why anyone goes for the 12 though. They have good specs, but they are only a tiny bit cheaper and not much lighter\smaller compared to something on the 18 line with the compact battery.


I bought DeWalt because the other guys on my crew had them, and I could borrow a battery if necessary, but Milwaukee seems to have outpaced them on development, and I would switch if I was going to re-tool
Best Impact Driver? DeWalt vs Milwaukee vs Makita vs Bauer! Let's find out!
Youtube 4jxZAKk_nSk
 
2020-09-25 1:56:32 PM  

LineNoise: robodog: The Craftsmen brushless stuff is ok, a step up from something like entry level Ryobi. The problem is like every Stanley tool the batteries are stupid expensive and I have no idea how committed they are to the form factor, Ryobi has kept the One+ battery system compatible for nearly 20 years (dating back to NiCad!) and Home Depot is much healthier than Lowes (though I believe the new Craftsmen has some distribution outside Lowes so SBD might keep the platform alive even without them, maybe). Personally if I was getting in right now it would be Ryobi or Bauer unless you're in some oddball place where there's a Lowes that is convenient but not a Home Depot or Harbor Freight.

I'm milwaukee myslef. M18 line. They have both brushed and brushless in it, so for the stuff you don't really care about brushless for, you can save some coin. That battery system has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere, there are like, a dozen differet types you can buy, and you can get bare tool off the shelf of most things at HD if you are in a pinch. They also have like any tool you can think of in the line.

I've abushed the living hell out of some of mine, and they refuse to quit.

Plus the charger supports the 12 line so if you do mix in a few of those, you can use the same charger. I really don't know why anyone goes for the 12 though. They have good specs, but they are only a tiny bit cheaper and not much lighter\smaller compared to something on the 18 line with the compact battery.


I bought in to Milwaukee as well after seeing how the tools hold up at work (powerplants). The guys weren't especially abusive, but weren't especially gentle, and they held up for years. There are some M12 tools that aren't available in M18, like the "dremel", the pvc cutter and the copper cutter. Have the brushless drill, driver, sawzall, multi/oscilating tool, hedge trimmer, blower, weed whacker. Love them all and they work well.

The sawzall worked almost as well as my neighbors chainsaw. I helped when he lost a tree, and it cut all but the bottom part of the trunk, but that was because the neighbor had a chainsaw. No problem cutting sections with a width greater than the 10 inch pruning blade. Tree was ~35 feet tall and ~18 inches at the base. Yes a chainsaw would be better suited, but didn't have one and unless you are a lumberjack or own an orchard the sawzall works just fine for the once every 15 year treefall.

The only issue I've run into is the batteries. The 3 x 5AH batteries I have work great. The 9AH and the 12AH batteries are a bit more maintenance. I have to manually balance charge the cell strings every couple months. Some of the cell strings would only get to ~3.7v on the factory charger, and not the 4.2v they should. This results in the low cells hitting the low-voltage cutout and the tool only operating for 1/3 of the normal time. I've rigged up my own balance charger, but most folks couldn't and no one should have to anyway. But my research says that Milwaukee uses quality lithium ion cells from Samsung, so I don't know why I'm having the issues I am.

That said, I'm still a fan and look forward to when the wife asks what the next tool for Xmas is.

As a side note, Milwaukee is made by Techtronic Industries (TTI) which is based in Hong Kong, so Milwaukee is Chinese as well. TTI also makes the cordless tools for Rigid and Ryobi. Stanley Black & Decker is based in Connecticut and makes Craftsman, Irwin, and DeWalt.

/csb

I get hired out of college and by a new truck, a Tacoma. A couple of old guys at work gave me crap about buying a foreign/non US/'Mircan vehicle. They got a little flustered when I pointed out that my Tacoma was made in California while their Fords and Chevys (unless they were trucks) were most likely built in Mexico or Canada, so my Japanese Tacoma was more 'Mircan than their Ford. And their commercials aren't lying about being made in America. Canada and Mexico are a part of North America.

/csb

/American components
//Russian components
///All made in Taiwan
 
2020-09-25 2:12:58 PM  
Don choo know there bean a recall on dat saw, man?


cynobs.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-25 2:19:36 PM  

LineNoise: robodog: The Craftsmen brushless stuff is ok, a step up from something like entry level Ryobi. The problem is like every Stanley tool the batteries are stupid expensive and I have no idea how committed they are to the form factor, Ryobi has kept the One+ battery system compatible for nearly 20 years (dating back to NiCad!) and Home Depot is much healthier than Lowes (though I believe the new Craftsmen has some distribution outside Lowes so SBD might keep the platform alive even without them, maybe). Personally if I was getting in right now it would be Ryobi or Bauer unless you're in some oddball place where there's a Lowes that is convenient but not a Home Depot or Harbor Freight.

I'm milwaukee myslef. M18 line. They have both brushed and brushless in it, so for the stuff you don't really care about brushless for, you can save some coin. That battery system has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere, there are like, a dozen differet types you can buy, and you can get bare tool off the shelf of most things at HD if you are in a pinch. They also have like any tool you can think of in the line.

I've abushed the living hell out of some of mine, and they refuse to quit.

Plus the charger supports the 12 line so if you do mix in a few of those, you can use the same charger. I really don't know why anyone goes for the 12 though. They have good specs, but they are only a tiny bit cheaper and not much lighter\smaller compared to something on the 18 line with the compact battery.


The Milwaukee line is great, but the average tool price is 40-100% more than Ryobi/Bauer. You get more powerful and more reliable tools for that price, but for a typical DIYer they're massive overkill. I love the size of the M12 stuff and actually have some since my friend is a rep, but I can't justify the $$$ for the M18 stuff over the generally good enough Ryobi equivalent.
 
2020-09-25 2:44:34 PM  
By the Lords of Kobol....
 
2020-09-25 4:12:04 PM  

LineNoise: OlderGuy: Waste of time and money...  Bosch 20v sawzall with the 'Ugly' blade... throw the blade away when it gets dull.  Also easy to use single handed...

ehh, if you are pruning something sure i guess, but now thats being rough on your sawzall (reciprocating please, Milwaukee owns that trademark and makes the better one). There are certain things that you can't do, safely, with a sazall  though that you can with a chain saw.

Also good luck getting a nice cut with say, a 12" blade.

I mean a sawzall really is a when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail approach, but there is a reason we have specific tools even when something else can sort of kind of do the job.


Got a Milwaukee..  need power for that.. the Bosch is also reciprocating, and I can take a 4" branch off in less than 30 seconds with that blade...  not for constant use, but very handy in a pinch, where power is not available...  don't own a chain saw, primarily due to not doing work that requires one.  very good for taking down ghetto trees growing by outside AC units..   maybe 2" diameter..  dig down 6-8" and cut it there, and give the stub a shot of root killer... works.
 
2020-09-25 6:47:01 PM  
If I were looking for an electric chainsaw, Hong Kong Sunrise Trading, would not be on my list. Even if it is branded as Kobalt. But what are you going to do? I see Menard's Master Force brand doing the same thing. All these are made in China. Choose Echo maybe? It's Japanese.
 
2020-09-25 9:19:04 PM  

max_pooper: TheGreatGazoo: There's that many electric chainsaws out there just from that brand?

The people who lived in my house before me had a plug in electric chainsaw.  It was a great idea until two trees came down across the driveway and power was out for a week.

That's why you have a generator. I have transitioned to all electric lawn equipment. Electric motors require no maintenance and can sit in the garage all winter completely forgotten about and they start right up in the spring. It's much easier to keep one small engine up and running than a half dozen+.


Not having to dork with small engines all the time is a definite plus.  Despite putting fuel stabilizer in the gas, I find myself fooling with the carburetor on the lawnmower more than I should.  I really ought to just throw in the towel and buy the expensive containers of no-cornohol fuel.

I have an electric trimmer which works well except I chew through the wimpy .065" line far too quickly when edging.  I had t a blower (Kobolt, even!) I had to toss because it fell a few feet and broke the intake fan shroud, rendering it too dangerous to use.  Why they use the brittle glass-filled plastic for the body I'll never know.

Considering a lithium blower and trimmer, but couldn't settle on a good brand.  Almost considered giving Harbor Fright a try with their Atlas stuff.  Stihl is likely high quality (though still made in China) but eye-wateringly expensive.
 
2020-09-26 9:57:59 AM  
Got the Ego line trimmer... 56v battery... works well, but the battery heats up with heavy use and shuts off the trimmer.. the spare battery is used until the first one cools down.  Still has 60% charge in it.  Riding mower gets the grass.. front, side and back yard.  and a Billy Goat yard vac gets the clippings..  built a winch powered lift to raise the yard vac so I can empty it directly into a bagger.
 
2020-09-26 10:08:17 AM  

FaygoMaster: max_pooper: TheGreatGazoo: There's that many electric chainsaws out there just from that brand?

The people who lived in my house before me had a plug in electric chainsaw.  It was a great idea until two trees came down across the driveway and power was out for a week.

That's why you have a generator. I have transitioned to all electric lawn equipment. Electric motors require no maintenance and can sit in the garage all winter completely forgotten about and they start right up in the spring. It's much easier to keep one small engine up and running than a half dozen+.

Not having to dork with small engines all the time is a definite plus.  Despite putting fuel stabilizer in the gas, I find myself fooling with the carburetor on the lawnmower more than I should.  I really ought to just throw in the towel and buy the expensive containers of no-cornohol fuel.

I have an electric trimmer which works well except I chew through the wimpy .065" line far too quickly when edging.  I had t a blower (Kobolt, even!) I had to toss because it fell a few feet and broke the intake fan shroud, rendering it too dangerous to use.  Why they use the brittle glass-filled plastic for the body I'll never know.

Considering a lithium blower and trimmer, but couldn't settle on a good brand.  Almost considered giving Harbor Fright a try with their Atlas stuff.  Stihl is likely high quality (though still made in China) but eye-wateringly expensive.


I've had 4 mowers over the 20ish years I've been here.  I think I've had a carburetor issue with 1.  The others have all blown the transmissions.  The current one had a bent crankshaft because the water meter reader didn't put the cover down all the way.

On the 2 cycle stuff I have, the puny little 20 year old Echo chain saw starts every time and I've never done a thing to it.  My "Farm Boss" Stihl is a PITA to start, but has more power than battery power can do at the moment.
 
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