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(Slate)   "Our daughter adores the color pink, insists on wearing dresses, and is currently obsessed with accessories. I am fine with this, though I hope it will be a phase because we're trying to raise her to be gender neutral. How do we overcome this?"   (slate.com) divider line
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311 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 25 Sep 2020 at 2:35 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-24 11:03:26 PM  
You don't. Either she'll get over it or she won't. Next?
 
2020-09-24 11:24:46 PM  
Seriously. Let your kid be a kid.
 
2020-09-24 11:51:07 PM  
Buy her a pink toy truck.
 
2020-09-25 12:34:11 AM  
You're doing it wrong and you're so stupid that you can fark up the best of intentions.

You're also the reason that some people think liberals are too dumb to be running anything, so thanks.

Emigrate please
 
2020-09-25 12:52:50 AM  
Ah, one of the key nuances missed by the screechy. Everyone should have the space to express themselves to whatever extent they wish, in whatever manner they wish, as long as they're not harming anyone. That's not the same as insisting that the proper and only way to be is It's Pat with a pair of suspenders and a crew cut.
 
2020-09-25 2:38:22 AM  
Least believable question yet.
 
2020-09-25 3:07:38 AM  
Raising your kid gender neutral is fine if your kid is gender neutral. Otherwise just let them be theirselves.
 
2020-09-25 3:43:33 AM  

wax_on: Raising your kid gender neutral is fine if your kid is gender neutral. Otherwise just let them be theirselves.


Nope! Take it from your local agender person, whose parents wanted to raise them to reject all things girly. Toys, clothes and styles of play are only gendered if you treat them as gendered. Trying to restrict your kid's imagination by providing a gender-neutral superhero outfit will not prevent then from trying to be She-Ra or a Thundercat, it'll just make it somewhat harder.

I had to pretend to be butch and really interested in my LEGO to EARN a Li'l Miss Makeup, and I really enjoyed her. Her color-changing face made it really easy to pretend she'd been mauled by a bear when I was playing Little House on the Prairie. So take heart! Princess wear can be an invitation for a child to be a badass, no matter their gender.

(High heels make you taller! What kid wouldn't love that? And ruling a kingdom? Yes, please!)
 
2020-09-25 3:53:24 AM  
I grew up tomboy, then bought my own pink dresses as an adult. Neutral' means no opinion. You want a dull child? The whole gender-fluid/neutral thing seems more for the parents to express on social media. Just try living your life and stop trying to find yourself fascinating.
 
2020-09-25 4:15:10 AM  

barefoot2008: The whole gender-fluid/neutral thing seems more for the parents to express on social media. Just try living your life and stop trying to find yourself fascinating.


And it's not like the kid isn't going to tell you/show you if they hate what you choose for them.
 
2020-09-25 4:51:37 AM  
Not forcing your child to conform to gender norms is admirable.

Insisting that your child not conform to gender norms is probably child abuse
 
2020-09-25 4:58:12 AM  
Forcing a kid not to pick a gender isn't any better than forcing them to be a specific one.  You are still denying the kid a choice. It's just not a scenario we are used to dealing with yet.

The goal isn't too force them into anything.  It's too give them all the options, teach them that none of those options are right or wrong, and let them decide for themselves.
 
2020-09-25 5:26:02 AM  
Helicopter parents suck
 
2020-09-25 5:27:38 AM  
I had an overbearing middle class mother who always wanted me to be tidier and neater than I was.

It took me until age 45 to work out I should probably get a suit given that I've worked in office environments my entire career to date.

Let folks work out their stuff, encourage them to look their best whatever that means for them, and the less pressure they're under the happier they'll be with looking "normal" when they work stuff out for themselves. Overbearing parents make rebelling fun. So if you don't want that, don't be overbearing even when you're totally sick of pink because the answer is possibly just around the corner.
 
2020-09-25 5:49:03 AM  
We want her to be free to make her own choices, but she made a choice we don't approve of. How can we force her to choose what we want instead?
 
2020-09-25 6:15:36 AM  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2020-09-25 6:47:57 AM  
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2020-09-25 7:01:41 AM  
Exchange her for a kid from Vermont
 
2020-09-25 7:03:57 AM  
By opening the cage, you give a bird its freedom.

By forcing the bird out of the cage, you take that freedom away.

If your kid wanted to dress like Captain America and roll around in the mud, you'd probably be overjoyed that she's upsetting gender norms and encourage her. But since she chose the princess look, you're not happy.  Guess what? The problem's not the kid or what she likes.
 
2020-09-25 7:32:08 AM  
I inherited a kid when my friend passed away, who wouldn't stay at home with his stepmother.  She's a Chinese tiger mom, who would take away his toys and games on the slightest pretext.  He's a problem now because he walked away from a full scholarship (he has an incredible talent for math) to sit on his ass and play video games all day long, which behavior the pandemic has reinforced.  He's an adult now, and all I can think to do is to tell him to play as much as he wants, but he needs to get it out of his system and move forward.
tl;dr once they are broken, they are hard to fix.
 
2020-09-25 7:44:50 AM  
You've lost her. She'll be on the pole with a fake ID by 16 and doing casting couch vids on her 18th birthday. By 20 she'll hit a goth phase and be doing cam shows on you dining room table.
 
2020-09-25 7:46:12 AM  
Our daughter went through a pink phase. No longer than around 15 years. 20 tops. The phrase in the 80s and 90s was 
"girly girl". She was the ultimate girly girl.

People are who they are.

She's no longer the Queen of Pink, but I can safely say that the color of her clothes, accessories, and pencil sets played almost no role in who she's become. Relax.

Far more important is talking to them.
 
2020-09-25 7:53:45 AM  
Trying to force your kid to be what you want them to be has a long history of near-perfect successes and nearly no unintended consequences.  Press on, even harder.  Never relinquish a centimeter.  Get her a tattoo of AOC on her forehead today; that could help.
 
2020-09-25 8:09:29 AM  
What's strange to me is that I was born in the 60's when there were rigid lines drawn between "boy toys" and "girl toys", yet my parents had no difficulty buying me both baby dolls and matchbox cars, lincoln logs and easy bake oven, toy kitchen set and G I Joe, lite brite and cowboy action figures. I had everything, regardless of whether it was supposedly for a boy or a girl. If I wanted it or my parents thought I would like it, I got it (only-child benefit). I was definitely a tom boy, and hated dresses (still do and won't wear one), but I had a bunch of baby dolls, barbies, etc. Barbies had weddings with G I Joes because Kens were lame.

Were my parents WAY ahead of the curve in completely not caring what was "gender appropriate"?

Given how I was raised and raised my own daughter, my opinion is obvious: Let kids play with whatever they want to play with.
 
2020-09-25 8:19:08 AM  
Is there something now wrong with females being feminine?
 
2020-09-25 9:44:32 AM  

phenn: Is there something now wrong with females being feminine?


Only if it is forced on them.

When I was a kid, I got barbies for Christmas when I asked for Hot Wheels.  I got crappy jewelry instead of the leather kit I wanted because it was for boys.  I got kids makeup instead of lincoln logs.  I was dressed in pink instead of blue, which was my favorite color.  I got so many dolls and I never touched them, I would have given my right arm for a skateboard.  It isn't as bad now, but in the 60's when I was growing up, it was pretty stupid.  Most of my friends had the same deal.

I had an older brother who had all the cool stuff, Hot Wheels, Lincoln Logs, Science Kits, microscope, all the stuff I would have loved.  Of course he was a dick and wouldn't let me play with any of it.  This is for BOYS, or just plain, this is MINE.

If you have a tomboy, don't spazz over it, you can be a tomboy and still be feminine.  And if she turns out to be a masculine woman or a masculine lesbian, the world won't stop spinning.
 
2020-09-25 9:49:03 AM  
I have a neice that went though the pink girly girl stage and wanted to wear dresses every day from about 3 to 6 years old.  She is 16 now, she is very fashion conscious, but she loves to buy oversized men's clothes from the salvation army store and she manages to look really cute in them.  All the colors are earthy or shades of blues, and she is very far from girly girl, but still manages to be very feminine.

It is a stage, if you bug her about it, you will have problems.  If you let it go, it will resolve on it's own.
 
2020-09-25 9:57:30 AM  

crzybtch: phenn: Is there something now wrong with females being feminine?

Only if it is forced on them.

When I was a kid, I got barbies for Christmas when I asked for Hot Wheels.  I got crappy jewelry instead of the leather kit I wanted because it was for boys.  I got kids makeup instead of lincoln logs.  I was dressed in pink instead of blue, which was my favorite color.  I got so many dolls and I never touched them, I would have given my right arm for a skateboard.  It isn't as bad now, but in the 60's when I was growing up, it was pretty stupid.  Most of my friends had the same deal.

I had an older brother who had all the cool stuff, Hot Wheels, Lincoln Logs, Science Kits, microscope, all the stuff I would have loved.  Of course he was a dick and wouldn't let me play with any of it.  This is for BOYS, or just plain, this is MINE.

If you have a tomboy, don't spazz over it, you can be a tomboy and still be feminine.  And if she turns out to be a masculine woman or a masculine lesbian, the world won't stop spinning.


I get that. But, it sounds like this parent is attempting to do the same thing - in the opposite way - if that makes sense. Kids should just be allowed to enjoy their childhood while they can.
 
2020-09-25 10:18:26 AM  
One of the surprises to me about having kids is how much their personalities are baked in. They aren't lumps of clay to be molded, they're little people from day one. I'm glad that I figured that out quickly, sounds like these peoples haven't.
 
2020-09-25 10:20:24 AM  
How do you raise a kid gender neutral?

They can't have the pretty dresses and barbie and stuffed animals because those are girlie and then they can't have the race cars, footballs, toy guns, and microscopes because they a boyish.

What they hell do they play with? Pretty much everything at the toy store is going to fall somewhere on the spectrum of boy or girl toy.
 
2020-09-25 11:15:39 AM  
I'll take "Someone making up shiat that didn't happen in a bullshiat 'No one else over thought of what to do if THIS happens hah!' attempt for $400, Alex.
 
2020-09-25 11:40:04 AM  
Make her wear a grey jumpsuit for everything.  That way, when her boyfriend kills you for her and she goes to prison, the orange will seem quite fresh and whimsical.
 
2020-09-25 11:49:02 AM  

eKonk: By opening the cage, you give a bird its freedom.

By forcing the bird out of the cage, you take that freedom away.

If your kid wanted to dress like Captain America and roll around in the mud, you'd probably be overjoyed that she's upsetting gender norms and encourage her. But since she chose the princess look, you're not happy.  Guess what? The problem's not the kid or what she likes.


The problem is never the kid.
 
2020-09-25 12:00:12 PM  
I hope all those woke points your earning are good for mental heath down the road, sounds like she or zer if you will is going to need them.
 
2020-09-25 12:18:01 PM  

phenn: crzybtch: phenn: Is there something now wrong with females being feminine?

Only if it is forced on them.

When I was a kid, I got barbies for Christmas when I asked for Hot Wheels.  I got crappy jewelry instead of the leather kit I wanted because it was for boys.  I got kids makeup instead of lincoln logs.  I was dressed in pink instead of blue, which was my favorite color.  I got so many dolls and I never touched them, I would have given my right arm for a skateboard.  It isn't as bad now, but in the 60's when I was growing up, it was pretty stupid.  Most of my friends had the same deal.

I had an older brother who had all the cool stuff, Hot Wheels, Lincoln Logs, Science Kits, microscope, all the stuff I would have loved.  Of course he was a dick and wouldn't let me play with any of it.  This is for BOYS, or just plain, this is MINE.

If you have a tomboy, don't spazz over it, you can be a tomboy and still be feminine.  And if she turns out to be a masculine woman or a masculine lesbian, the world won't stop spinning.

I get that. But, it sounds like this parent is attempting to do the same thing - in the opposite way - if that makes sense. Kids should just be allowed to enjoy their childhood while they can.


I agree completely.  I am just saying too many people force their girls to be girly and boys to be macho.
 
2020-09-25 12:30:57 PM  

turboke: eKonk: By opening the cage, you give a bird its freedom.

By forcing the bird out of the cage, you take that freedom away.

If your kid wanted to dress like Captain America and roll around in the mud, you'd probably be overjoyed that she's upsetting gender norms and encourage her. But since she chose the princess look, you're not happy.  Guess what? The problem's not the kid or what she likes.

The problem is never the kid.


Oh, gonna disagree there. There are definitely problem kids, I know some. From perfectly fine families with kind, patient and understanding parents. But those kids got something going on in the noodle that just ain't right.

Read up on psychopath children. Scary.
 
2020-09-25 12:34:01 PM  

wax_on: turboke: eKonk: By opening the cage, you give a bird its freedom.

By forcing the bird out of the cage, you take that freedom away.

If your kid wanted to dress like Captain America and roll around in the mud, you'd probably be overjoyed that she's upsetting gender norms and encourage her. But since she chose the princess look, you're not happy.  Guess what? The problem's not the kid or what she likes.

The problem is never the kid.

Oh, gonna disagree there. There are definitely problem kids, I know some. From perfectly fine families with kind, patient and understanding parents. But those kids got something going on in the noodle that just ain't right.

Read up on psychopath children. Scary.


The problem "with these letter writers" is never the kid, is what I implied.

If it's scary, I'll postpone that reading up till 2021.
 
2020-09-25 2:10:14 PM  

madgonad: How do you raise a kid gender neutral?

They can't have the pretty dresses and barbie and stuffed animals because those are girlie and then they can't have the race cars, footballs, toy guns, and microscopes because they a boyish.

What they hell do they play with? Pretty much everything at the toy store is going to fall somewhere on the spectrum of boy or girl toy.


To do it right, you don't freak out when your son wants an Elsa doll or your daughter wants a hot wheels toy.

The whole rigid gender lines in toys and kid's clothes came from a marketing campaign in the early 1900s to encourage newly middle class parents to re-buy kid stuff if they had a boy and a girl. This is also where the concept of "pink for girls, blue for boys" came from.

Previously, since everything had to be handmade, the early years of children where very "gender neutral" just for simplicities sake. It's why you see even wealthy young boys wearing dresses in paintings until about 5 to 7 years of age, depending on the time period.
 
2020-09-25 2:20:10 PM  

shortymac: madgonad: How do you raise a kid gender neutral?

They can't have the pretty dresses and barbie and stuffed animals because those are girlie and then they can't have the race cars, footballs, toy guns, and microscopes because they a boyish.

What they hell do they play with? Pretty much everything at the toy store is going to fall somewhere on the spectrum of boy or girl toy.

To do it right, you don't freak out when your son wants an Elsa doll or your daughter wants a hot wheels toy.

The whole rigid gender lines in toys and kid's clothes came from a marketing campaign in the early 1900s to encourage newly middle class parents to re-buy kid stuff if they had a boy and a girl. This is also where the concept of "pink for girls, blue for boys" came from.

Previously, since everything had to be handmade, the early years of children where very "gender neutral" just for simplicities sake. It's why you see even wealthy young boys wearing dresses in paintings until about 5 to 7 years of age, depending on the time period.


Yeah, but they are eliminating BOTH genders.

As a child I had lots sporting equipment, toy guns, army men, Legos..., but I also had stuffed animals and one actual baby doll (which was kept with the stuffed animals). I played with everything. Once kids are 3-4 they will ask for what they want. If it is age appropriate, and you can afford it, get it for them.
 
2020-09-25 4:38:48 PM  
so you want the kid to make her own decisions, unaffected by social norms so long as those decisions are what you want her to choose...

you might want to sign up with this group.

Overly Woke Support Club
https://vimeo.com/276940268
 
2020-09-26 1:00:50 AM  
Our daughter had a major pink phase. Everything was pink, pink, pink. Same with her best friend in the first grade.

One day, I was dropping my daughter at her best friend's house. The little girl ran up to her mother and announced "I don't like pink anymore. I only like purple now and I only want to wear purple clothes."

Unperturbed, the Mom answered "Well, you're in trouble then because everything you own is pink."

A year later several of the girls in my daughter's second grade class refused to wear a dress of any type. My daughter and many of her classmates would wear absolutely nothing except their brother's cast offs. Several sets of parents were called to the school. We were informed that our daughters were bullying the other girls. They were wearing their older brothers clothes to show off the fact that they had older brothers. To the little girls who were only children or who had only sisters, they were saying things like "I have an older brother and you don't."

Someone asked the teacher whether the girls were threatening to have their older brothers beat the other little girls up. Nope. They were saying it in the same mocking tone a child in the 70's or 80's would have said "I have an ice cream cone and you don't because your Daddy is an alcoholic and you are on the welfare."

Kids will keep you on your toes.
 
2020-09-26 2:51:44 AM  
I'm sure this has been stated earlier, but I was quite happy growing up as a straight male, and still am with no complaints. Are we sure you're not trying to force your daughter into something you feel obligated to?
 
2020-09-26 3:48:55 AM  

Bruscar: Someone asked the teacher whether the girls were threatening to have their older brothers beat the other little girls up. Nope. They were saying it in the same mocking tone a child in the 70's or 80's would have said "I have an ice cream cone and you don't because your Daddy is an alcoholic and you are on the welfare."


That's not a fair comparison. You can't help not having an older brother, that's an immutable fact of your biology. On the other hand, you can help your alcoholic father have an "accident" (how hard can it be if he's drunk?) and buy an ice cream come from the insurance payout. But you have to show some initiative!
 
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