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(MSN)   Harley Davidson rides out of India. Marlboro Man still at large   (msn.com) divider line
    More: Followup, General Motors, Harley-Davidson Inc., Chief executive officer, Ford Motor Company, Narendra Modi, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's efforts, U.S. President Donald Trump, major setback  
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520 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Sep 2020 at 11:10 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



19 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-09-24 10:49:51 AM  
They just couldn't compete against Indian.
 
2020-09-24 11:23:01 AM  
Keep that trash Harley culture in the US where it belongs, with the trash people.
 
2020-09-24 11:24:09 AM  
Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.
 
2020-09-24 12:04:51 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


Eric Buell nods...
 
2020-09-24 12:12:28 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


Harley decided to double down on their most profitable market and ignore the future.

This is the danger in giving mgmt short term financial goals.
 
2020-09-24 12:27:30 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


To be fair, have you seen the average scooter in India? They're a third the size of a typical Harley.

/Probably helps that the average Indian is a third the size of the typical American...
 
2020-09-24 12:32:16 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


Riding an 700 lb bike through the streets of India is difficult, they need more nimble bikes in their market. That is why Royal Enfield has always been the go to bike there. Light, easy to work on, good on gas, everything a Harley is not.
 
2020-09-24 12:43:30 PM  

grokca: Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.

Riding an 700 lb bike through the streets of India is difficult, they need more nimble bikes in their market. That is why Royal Enfield has always been the go to bike there. Light, easy to work on, good on gas, everything a Harley is not.


In 2014 HD began building their Street 500 and Street 750 in India. HD is an aspirational brand in India and they wanted build expand HD's footprint In Asia. But now HD has decided that instead of selling a lot of motorcycles,  will try to maximize profits on an increasingly smaller of units sold to an increasingly smaller market. I guess that's a good business model as long as you're focused on quarterly reports, and don't care about being in business in 10 years.
 
2020-09-24 1:00:32 PM  

freakdiablo: Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.

To be fair, have you seen the average scooter in India? They're a third the size of a typical Harley.

/Probably helps that the average Indian is a third the size of the typical American...


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2020-09-24 1:02:23 PM  

Notabunny: I guess that's a good business model as long as you're focused on quarterly reports, and don't care about being in business in 10 years.


I imagine that most of its senior management will be retired in 10 years and won't give a fark about HD.
 
2020-09-24 1:12:12 PM  
India isn't a friendly place to do business for foreign companies. Toyota is not investing....Ford partnered domestically and mostly sold out....

They are a high tariff nightmare....hmm, who would like an environment like that?
 
2020-09-24 1:26:10 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


You sell motorcycles in India.  You sell a "HD lifestyle" in the USA.  HD doesn't like selling motorcycles, they only sell them to sell all the accessories that go with it.

That HD continue this and then suddenly go out of business is the essence of the free market (it is even more basic than mere capitalism.  Capitalism simply keeps funding it to do so until well after the writing is on the wall that the boomers are dying and genx thinks "universal Japanese motorcycle" when thinking about bikes of their youth (and millenials and younger think "crotch rockets").
 
2020-09-24 1:30:20 PM  
When I was in Bangalore there was a Harley Dealer right near my hotel. I was like WTF? They ride in heavily congested traffic, lots of quick stops and starts. Pack three on a bike. They need something utilitarian. But there was also a Mercedes AMG dealer on the same street. Bangalore traffic is something to experience. Morse code with horns.
 
2020-09-24 2:51:54 PM  

roddikinsathome: Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.

Eric Buell nods...



Is he related to Erik Buell, the guy who had the Buell Motorcycle Company?
 
2020-09-24 3:20:18 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: roddikinsathome: Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.

Eric Buell nods...


Is he related to Erik Buell, the guy who had the Buell Motorcycle Company?


Thanks for catching the typo.
 
2020-09-24 3:43:32 PM  

Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.


I'm actually amazed that HD made this decision.

India is the largest (or maybe second largest, after China) market for motorcycles. HD specifically created the Street model of cycles with a 500cc engine (499cc) because once you go past half a liter of displacement the tax and registration increases sharply. That, and imports into India have huge tariffs to the point that a standard HD cruiser is about 2x the MSRP as in the USA, so only very rich people in India could buy them. By setting up manufacturing in India and creating a 499cc model, they were trying to break into a large market.
 
2020-09-24 6:35:32 PM  

mrmopar5287: Notabunny: Just so I understand, roughly 17 million motorcycles and scooters were sold last year in India's growing and vibrant market, but the brain trust at HD has decided instead that India is a shiat market compared to the increasingly old, white, and mostly dead middle management accountants and dentists who have healthy 401(k)'s but not enough functioning mental capacity to recognize that they should have acted on their mid-life crises two decades ago? Sell, Mortimer. Sell.

I'm actually amazed that HD made this decision.

India is the largest (or maybe second largest, after China) market for motorcycles. HD specifically created the Street model of cycles with a 500cc engine (499cc) because once you go past half a liter of displacement the tax and registration increases sharply. That, and imports into India have huge tariffs to the point that a standard HD cruiser is about 2x the MSRP as in the USA, so only very rich people in India could buy them. By setting up manufacturing in India and creating a 499cc model, they were trying to break into a large market.


It's also HD's decades long choice to turn away from other profitable market segments. Where are the HD dirt bikes and adventure bikes? Lots of riders cut their teeth on low-rpm "thumpers" and have grown to have brand loyalty that rivals genetic ties. That's a natural market for HD. Why aren't they there?
 
2020-09-24 8:18:23 PM  

Notabunny: It's also HD's decades long choice to turn away from other profitable market segments. Where are the HD dirt bikes and adventure bikes? Lots of riders cut their teeth on low-rpm "thumpers" and have grown to have brand loyalty that rivals genetic ties. That's a natural market for HD. Why aren't they there?


It's a shame. They make no effort to break into any other categories because of weird excuses about how it might dilute their brand or something. Can't make an adventure-touring bike until the Pan America launches next year as a very late entry into the category. They bought and killed Buell, so no attempts to get into sport bikes. They just do not venture into any new categories other than the very recent Street bikes, and that was really a spin-off of this trying to get into the India market. It makes me wonder how long the Street bikes will continue in America now that they've abandoned India.
 
2020-09-24 11:58:42 PM  
HD is stuck in a pickle.  They have a huge markup on the brand name, so if they make entry level bikes priced as entry level bikes then it dilutes the value of the brand name.  If they continue to sell their bikes to an audience that's aging out of riding then they die with their riders.

This isn't even touching the build quality and lack of R&D.  They got lazy when they got the domestic big bike market behind a large tariff, and all they have left is the name.

I always liked the tag line: Harley Davidson: Yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices
 
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