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(The Week)   Here's the correct way to attack Amy Barrett   (theweek.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Barack Obama, Democracy, The Handmaid's Tale, People of Praise, member of an intentional community group, Barrett's charismatic inclinations, President Trump, late Ruth Bader Ginsburg  
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2844 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Sep 2020 at 2:44 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-09-24 1:31:20 PM  
If anything, by that global standard, Barrett and POP are fairly sedate. As far as I can tell from credible reporting on the group, including this critical account from a former founding member published in a peer-reviewed journal, People of Praise is a moderate charismatic group with a robust but clearly voluntary community life centered on spiritual guidance and mutual aid.

----


I wrote and then deleted a much longer criticism of this paragraph, but I deleted it because it's not worth it. This defense is pure horseshiat. Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain, among many other things. Being "voluntary" does not mean it's not a cult, not all-encompasing, and not abusive. And as a former pentecostal/charismatic and former cult member, I will tell you that this argument is essentially gaslighting, and it makes me too personally angry to engage with it in a detached way.

There is some discussion to be had about how these types of beliefs are more common globally than liberals like to admit, and some discussion to be had about the right way to criticize the content of a nominee's religion, but this is not a good-faith apology for Amy Barrett's whackadoo church.

Fark you, Bonnie Kristain.

---

Obligatory:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 2:46:21 PM  
You don't go after her catholicism, after all biden is a catholic right?

you go after the weird cult section of it she's in.  Just like you don't go after all the muslims, just the ones that are in that small section that's all head choppy and blow uppey.
 
2020-09-24 2:47:32 PM  
You can't shame the shameless.
 
2020-09-24 2:48:25 PM  
Religious beliefs are fair game when the person being critiqued over it does not believe in the separation of church and state. If she wants to not be criticized for her religion she can just say something like "my religion is private and I will keep it out of all my legal decisions. And you should believe me because I have a long track record of respecting the separation of church and state". Of course, that requires actually having that track record...
 
2020-09-24 2:48:25 PM  
"Sure, she's a racist, but by global standards she's not that racist." 

That's you.  That's what you sound like.
 
2020-09-24 2:49:33 PM  
No mention of flying leg drops.
 
2020-09-24 2:49:41 PM  
How about we only put atheists on the court?
 
2020-09-24 2:50:06 PM  
Does she like beer?
 
2020-09-24 2:51:35 PM  
Sorry, I'm tired of skirting the issue of the insanity of religion, especially beliefs like hers.  Everything should be on the table here.  Her beliefs are central to her ability to do the job and based on what we know she is wholly unfit.
 
2020-09-24 2:51:44 PM  
Anti-Catholic bias?   The Supreme Court has been packed with Catholics over the past 50 years.
 
2020-09-24 2:52:11 PM  
I would like her to spank me with a gavel. I don't agree with her on, well, anything....but I'm attracted to older women with her level of crazy.
 
2020-09-24 2:53:02 PM  
It's weird to me that Christians believe that I deserve to literally be tortured for eternity because I don't believe like they do, but if I question whether that belief might possibly interfere in the equal application of the power they seek, I'm the one in the wrong, apparently.
 
2020-09-24 2:53:10 PM  
If only Amy practiced religion like Biden and Pelosi do. Then she would be praised by the Left.
 
2020-09-24 2:54:26 PM  
Her beliefs are incorrect. Most people's are. That would be fine if she didn't have beliefs about how the rest of us should be permitted to behave. Since she does, attacking her beliefs is okay.

I didn't finish the article but I was vaguely irritated by the notion that Democrats are doing this wrong because we don't care enough about the world beyond our borders. If there ever were a case where we got to not give a fark about that, it's when choosing a SC justice. I'd even give a Republican a pass for not caring how a SCOTUS pick is viewed overseas, not that they ever care.

I'm pretty sure most of the world that I really care about is trending toward less religion, not charismatic Catholicism, but finding out that I'm wrong isn't worth reading the rest of that article and would really ruin my day.
 
2020-09-24 2:54:33 PM  

slobberbone: How about we only put atheists on the court?


I am 100% there for this.
 
2020-09-24 2:55:15 PM  
This isn't about her faith. No one is criticizing her for being Catholic. She's being criticized for being in a cult. She literally has a handmaiden, has to run all her life decisions thru the cult, and has to acknowledge that her husband rules over her and all men rule over women.

But fine, don't bring it up. But don't be surprised when she:
Votes to ban gay marriage (her cult is VERY anti-gay)
Votes to get rid of all women's rights (Because men folk need to decide that per the cult)
 
2020-09-24 2:55:18 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain


Which, if we're being real, doesn't really set you that far apart from your average Southern Baptist. Theologically, it really doesn't distinguish you from your average Methodist.

I know you said you were a former charismatic, and I get that that's a very different experience from being Baptist or Methodist. I'm just saying. On paper, thinking God talks to you regularly is kind of part and parcel with most Christian denominations I've spent any time with.
 
2020-09-24 2:56:49 PM  

slobberbone: How about we only put atheists on the court?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 2:56:52 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: If only Amy practiced religion like Biden and Pelosi do. Then she would be praised by the Left.


You mean quietly, and in a way that minds their own damn business? Yeah, yeah I think I would probably praise that, man. What a tremendous point.
 
2020-09-24 2:58:06 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: I would like her to spank me with a gavel. I don't agree with her on, well, anything....but I'm attracted to older women with her level of crazy.


I am fairly sure my best friend in high school banged her.

I texted him and he texted me back"I will neither confirm or deny that stain on your parents house belonged to a current US Federal Judge."

I remember him complaining about his girlfriend Amy who made him go to church on Sundays before she bangulated him, but not regular catholic church, like meetings in houses, and most of the parishioners lived in the same neighborhood.
 
2020-09-24 2:58:16 PM  
I don't see why Democrats cannot attack her as a reactionary far-right judge who is out of the mainstream and likely to vote to abolish Roe and the ACA and further restrict voting rights. No matter how coy she is with her answers in committee, she has a paper trail. She's not an unknown quantity.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with Democrats being open about this being an ideological battle. Republicans have been open about their desire to control the courts for decades. Barrett may be fully qualified to be a justice, but that doesn't mean she should be confirmed.
 
2020-09-24 2:59:02 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: I would like her to spank me with a gavel. I don't agree with her on, well, anything....but I'm attracted to older women with her level of crazy.


In my limited experience, being a charismatic who "speaks in tongues" is highly correlated with "advanced and enthusiastic blowjob skills." Make of that what you will. I'll be in my bunk.
 
2020-09-24 3:00:06 PM  

foo monkey: Does she like beer?


Silver Bullet
 
2020-09-24 3:01:23 PM  
Just ask her what she thinks about an adult woman's right to have any medical procedure she wants. I don't give a fark about her creepy religion.

And it is creepy. I don't care that other creepy religious assholes are offended that I think they're creepy. Honestly, that's the nicest thing you can say about them.

Just point out that she thinks that adult women -- ie, adults -- in America in the 21st century should have to run their health care decisions involving their uterus by the religious police, just like the religious police in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Stop being polite to these farking assholes.

They want to be a religious court commanding the rest of us and giving us "permission" to do things the way they want. fark that and fark her and all her creepy co-conspirators.
 
2020-09-24 3:01:48 PM  
Here's the deal-if you adamantly believe in an all powerful god creature and live your life in accordance with how you believe this god creature thinks you should live your complete disrespect for evidence, reason, and the rights of others makes you unfit to be a judge. When my science teacher told me to stay in the classroom and show respect for the Lord's prayer, I told him to show me the evidence that proves there is a god or quit being a science teacher. Anyone in law who doesn't have supreme respect for evidence has no place in the court system. I don't give a fuq about your belief. Belief is a product of ignorance.
 
2020-09-24 3:06:05 PM  

alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: Martian_Astronomer: Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain

Which, if we're being real, doesn't really set you that far apart from your average Southern Baptist. Theologically, it really doesn't distinguish you from your average Methodist.

I know you said you were a former charismatic, and I get that that's a very different experience from being Baptist or Methodist. I'm just saying. On paper, thinking God talks to you regularly is kind of part and parcel with most Christian denominations I've spent any time with.


You're not wrong - it's largely a matter of degree, but that matter of degree is significant. I used to have a friend who would literally go on "dates with Jesus." That is, he'd walk around and try to feel whether Jesus wanted him to turn left or right, what store or restaurant to go into, and who to talk to. This was considered a laudable spiritual discipline for learning how to feel what God wanted you to do.

Being "charismatic" denotatively refers to views on Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, and the expectation of miracles, but as a practical matter they place a very large emphasis on God beaming instructions into your head all the time, too.

Charismatics are also a bit more likely to believe that demons are responsible for bad stuff going on, and that everyone feels the tug of Jesus on their heart and knows deep down that conservative Christians are right about everything, but some people deny it because they just want to be bad.
 
2020-09-24 3:20:32 PM  
We absolutely have to take her religion into account if she doesn't believe in the separation of church and state.
 
2020-09-24 3:25:27 PM  
Criticize all you want.  If she is nominated, she will be confirmed.
And outside the courthouse there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. As it is written.
 
2020-09-24 3:32:02 PM  
Democrats' anti-Catholic bigotry is all about abortion.
 
2020-09-24 3:33:00 PM  
"That full membership requires a six-year process is a good sign POP isn't a cult, as cults are by design easy to join but difficult to leave."

Sure. Plenty of non-cult groups out there have 6 year brainwashing enrollment periods. Why, I'm on year 5 of my attempt to get into the local disc golf league. I hope the hazing and ritual memorizations aren't as tough as years 1-4.
 
2020-09-24 3:35:00 PM  
Intentional community group?
 
2020-09-24 3:36:07 PM  
Pass it around

Christopher Hitchens - Separation of Church and State
Youtube WV5mWfDFE9A
 
2020-09-24 3:37:38 PM  

vrax: slobberbone: How about we only put atheists on the court?

[Fark user image 473x266]


That show is really growing on me.  Father, the insecure android, is my favorite.
 
2020-09-24 3:48:01 PM  
The right way is to claim that her appointment is illegitimate, her opinions irrelevant, and don't even touch the personal beliefs.

Who cares who it is? They have no business being on the court. Anyone appointed between now and January is a purely political prop and should be replaced or offset.
 
2020-09-24 4:12:08 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: Martian_Astronomer: Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain

Which, if we're being real, doesn't really set you that far apart from your average Southern Baptist. Theologically, it really doesn't distinguish you from your average Methodist.

I know you said you were a former charismatic, and I get that that's a very different experience from being Baptist or Methodist. I'm just saying. On paper, thinking God talks to you regularly is kind of part and parcel with most Christian denominations I've spent any time with.

You're not wrong - it's largely a matter of degree, but that matter of degree is significant. I used to have a friend who would literally go on "dates with Jesus." That is, he'd walk around and try to feel whether Jesus wanted him to turn left or right, what store or restaurant to go into, and who to talk to. This was considered a laudable spiritual discipline for learning how to feel what God wanted you to do.

Being "charismatic" denotatively refers to views on Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, and the expectation of miracles, but as a practical matter they place a very large emphasis on God beaming instructions into your head all the time, too.

Charismatics are also a bit more likely to believe that demons are responsible for bad stuff going on, and that everyone feels the tug of Jesus on their heart and knows deep down that conservative Christians are right about everything, but some people deny it because they just want to be bad.


How far did your friend get with Jesus? Third date? Did Jesus do blessed butt stuff?
 
2020-09-24 4:14:28 PM  
Anyone who shiats out seven kids doesn't represent America. This isn't 1820, babe, learn about birth control.
 
2020-09-24 4:15:06 PM  

PoweredByIrony: Martian_Astronomer: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: Martian_Astronomer: Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain

Which, if we're being real, doesn't really set you that far apart from your average Southern Baptist. Theologically, it really doesn't distinguish you from your average Methodist.

I know you said you were a former charismatic, and I get that that's a very different experience from being Baptist or Methodist. I'm just saying. On paper, thinking God talks to you regularly is kind of part and parcel with most Christian denominations I've spent any time with.

You're not wrong - it's largely a matter of degree, but that matter of degree is significant. I used to have a friend who would literally go on "dates with Jesus." That is, he'd walk around and try to feel whether Jesus wanted him to turn left or right, what store or restaurant to go into, and who to talk to. This was considered a laudable spiritual discipline for learning how to feel what God wanted you to do.

Being "charismatic" denotatively refers to views on Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, and the expectation of miracles, but as a practical matter they place a very large emphasis on God beaming instructions into your head all the time, too.

Charismatics are also a bit more likely to believe that demons are responsible for bad stuff going on, and that everyone feels the tug of Jesus on their heart and knows deep down that conservative Christians are right about everything, but some people deny it because they just want to be bad.

How far did your friend get with Jesus? Third date? Did Jesus do blessed butt stuff?


If Jesus is God and God is everywhere, then Jesus is inside his butt right now. And also your butt and my butt. Everyone's butts.

What I'm saying is that all of us have all the STDs. Sorry to let you know this way.
 
2020-09-24 4:26:20 PM  
"Her People of Praise membership has drawn media focus including false claims that the group inspired The Handmaid's Tale,"

Blatant lies in journalism, no way.

The group changed the name of their leaders from handmaids to leaders after their group was exposed.

Clippings of the group's antics were found in the authors inspiration box for the book.

Quit trying to normalize nutbags and definately stop blatantly lying.
 
2020-09-24 4:29:27 PM  

Pugdaddyk: foo monkey: Does she like beer?

Silver Bullet


Only if she's a werewolf.  Otherwise regular bullets are fine.
 
2020-09-24 4:36:18 PM  
What minimization in the article.
 
2020-09-24 4:41:09 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: PoweredByIrony: Martian_Astronomer: alto_reed_on_a_tenor_sax: Martian_Astronomer: Being a "moderate" charismatic still means you believe God regularly beams authoritative messages into your brain

Which, if we're being real, doesn't really set you that far apart from your average Southern Baptist. Theologically, it really doesn't distinguish you from your average Methodist.

I know you said you were a former charismatic, and I get that that's a very different experience from being Baptist or Methodist. I'm just saying. On paper, thinking God talks to you regularly is kind of part and parcel with most Christian denominations I've spent any time with.

You're not wrong - it's largely a matter of degree, but that matter of degree is significant. I used to have a friend who would literally go on "dates with Jesus." That is, he'd walk around and try to feel whether Jesus wanted him to turn left or right, what store or restaurant to go into, and who to talk to. This was considered a laudable spiritual discipline for learning how to feel what God wanted you to do.

Being "charismatic" denotatively refers to views on Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, and the expectation of miracles, but as a practical matter they place a very large emphasis on God beaming instructions into your head all the time, too.

Charismatics are also a bit more likely to believe that demons are responsible for bad stuff going on, and that everyone feels the tug of Jesus on their heart and knows deep down that conservative Christians are right about everything, but some people deny it because they just want to be bad.

How far did your friend get with Jesus? Third date? Did Jesus do blessed butt stuff?

If Jesus is God and God is everywhere, then Jesus is inside his butt right now. And also your butt and my butt. Everyone's butts.

What I'm saying is that all of us have all the STDs. Sorry to let you know this way.


Blessed are the freak, I suppose.
 
2020-09-24 4:44:12 PM  
Why should how religion is practiced in South America and Africa be relevant to the religiosity of a US supreme court justice?
Are they making judgments on cases in Brazil or Nigeria?
No?
Then fark off. Possibly back to the kitchen where these christian cultists think you belong.
 
2020-09-24 4:50:11 PM  

JDAT: Criticize all you want.  If she is nominated, she will be confirmed.
And outside the courthouse there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. As it is written.


and weeping.
 
2020-09-24 5:02:09 PM  
Straight shot to the baby-maker?
 
2020-09-24 5:07:51 PM  
"I've found is standard church stuff. That full membership requires a six-year process is a good sign POP isn't a cult, as cults are by design easy to join but difficult to leave. "

I hear in Scientology you have to sign a multiple. incarnation contract.  You have to resume working for Scientology after you die and are re-incarnated

So I guess they are even less of a cult than POP

/don't worry about child labor.  $cientology gives you 18 years of time off at the start of each incarnation.
 
2020-09-24 5:17:22 PM  

Fear the Clam: Anyone who shiats out seven kids doesn't represent America. This isn't 1820, babe, learn about birth control.


Hey!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-09-24 5:31:44 PM  
The author compares Protestant pentecostals with Catholic charismatics and decides that the Catholics are OK because they're not speaking in tongues or handling snakes.  Well, Catholic charismatics never did any of that heretical garbage, but then the author would know that if she knew anything about the Catholic church.  As it is, Catholic charismatics are scary as hell in their own uniquely Papist way.  No need to view them through a Protestant lens.
 
2020-09-24 5:37:02 PM  

Erebus1954: Democrats' anti-Catholic bigotry is all about abortion.


While Catholic bigotry is all about ensuring their misogynistic and homophobic doctrines are given the force of law while demanding taxpayer subsidies for their lucrative segregation academies.
 
2020-09-24 5:40:04 PM  
Wow subby this is a shiatty take.
 
2020-09-24 5:52:47 PM  

Fear the Clam: Anyone who shiats out seven kids doesn't represent America. This isn't 1820, babe, learn about birth control.


I'm under 40 and both my parents have 7+ siblings.  It wasn't that odd that long ago.
 
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